Model Aviation, page 126, "There's Good News Tonight"* (*Gabriel Heater)

[dale gleason]

A  few months back, our Dallas Model Aircraft Association was contacted, through Mike Scott, to give a demonstration of Control Line to a special group of youngsters enrolled in a Parks Summer Program. Dave Ek, Don Hutchinson, Tom Hamblet and I located the park facility ok, Dave and Tom gave a "classroom" synopsis of control line planes and what makes them fly, then everyone went to the baseball field to get a glimpse of some actual flying. I flew my Impcat stunt ship through a pattern and the kids really got into it! They had been given rules of safety and they followed them to the letter, about two dozen well-mannered youngsters, none of which crossed the safety line that was drawn. Afterward, just letting them hold the handle and watching the flippers move was a treat for them. It was great.

Now, the biggie. Page 126 of the most recent "Model Aviation" has a wonderful article on control line stunt that Bob Hunt has cobbled together that shows what can be accomplished, given the opportunity, in spreading the "word".
Six hundred flyers learned to fly at the Joe Nall! It's hard to imagine. Couple that with the Oshkosh KidVenture program and it can easily be seen we are progressing.

Back to DMAA, we had an opportunity to fly for the Parks Dept about two years ago, and we put up Stunt, Racing, Speed, Carrier and Really Slow Combat flights to about ten busloads of youngsters. There were a lot of other activities to distract them, but we did get in our "licks" and the kids enjoyed what we had to offer.

It is uplifting to see the Joe Nall success, gives us the impetus to hang in there, even if we can't match such a stellar performance!

Good on "Model Aviation", good on all involved!

dg

[dave siegler]

I have been working at Oshkosh for several years now.  On a slow year, we fly 1400 training flights.  On a good year, is is 2600, 2700.  Problems is that we can't point the kids at some model, beginner kit or RTF to go on and take the next step.  The numbers are correct and is has been going on for 18 years. 

While we give a way the plans EAA won't lets us sell anything even at cost, and the local hobby town isn't interested in stocking anything that isn't RC.  We got in the daily paper at EAA this year. 

This year especially, I have some very good kids.  I wanted to ask them back and put them up on something more exciting than the trainers we fly. 

Also I think it is going to be necessary to hook these people up with local "mentors" or clubs.  We get people from all over the world.  Would love to vector them to someone that can help.   

http://kvcontrolline.weebly.com/video-and-pictures.html

so yes let's get after it!.

Oh loading the van to fly demos today and fun fly at a steam tractor event.

[Larry Renger]

Our club, The Knights of the Round Circle, gives each kid a frameable certificate. On the back we print an informative flyer about where we meet and fly.

[dale gleason]

Thank you, Dave, and Larry.

Wow! It's easy to read over articles and not let them "sink in". I'm referring to the thousands of young folks introduced to control line at Oshkosh. Now, that IS a lot of time and effort.

Allen Brickhouse is a "kid" promoter of the first order, too, gotta' remember that..

I enjoy reading upbeat, happy articles, and decided to try to start one.    I'll edit my previous.

Thank you,
dg

[john e. holliday]

TOPClass used to do demos each year at Washburn University that other things going on.  One big fair.  We were in the football stadium.  I only got to attend one year and had a big flying wing with Fox Golden .40 Rat engine on it.   When ever I flew the thing the stand would fill up.  Same with the combat flying we did with my old Ringmaster S-1A and whatever the Lee boys could get in the air. 

Also at the time we had static display top side and would tell them about the flying at what used to be Gage Park.

[Dan McEntee]

   At Kidventure, we give them a pair of wings. With all the other paper give away stuff that they pick up, and certificate might get lost in the mix, but is worth looking into. The KidVenture venue is consistently voted one of the most popular attractions of the EAA AirVenture Convention and the people traffic is usually pretty high. If I get a kid that I can tell is especially interested, or has the knack for flying, I'll try to engage the parents and give them as much info as I can and encourage them to find a local club if possible. The shear volume of kids we deal with makes this hard sometimes, but we do get some feed back. One of the co-chairpersons for the control line area was a "walk through" with her family in one of the early years, and they all got the bug! And now they help run the show.I've been going for 14 years, and by my estimate, I have had 3000 to 4000 kids at the handle, and it really is a lot of fun. The only problem is I'm getting older! And so are some of the other volunteers. We need more help and younger help to make the load easier. If you have never been to Oshkosh, volunteering for KidVenture can make the trip a lot easier to do financially. For each day you volunteer, you get a parking pass and a wrist band for admission to the convention grounds and all that they offer. If you are a camper, a free camp site is provided. There is NEVER a shortage of things to see and do. My friends and I usually get to the airport around 7AM and are there until well after dark most days. If anyone out there wishes to get more information, feel free to contact me and I'll fix you up. The founder of EAA, Paul Poberenzy, just passed away a day or two ago, so next year will probably shape up to be a tribute to Paul, and will probably be worth the trip just for that. You do not need to be an EAA member to participate, and at the end of the year you will receive a letter from the EAA laying out their non-profit status and if you volunteer, all of you expenses are eligible to be tax deductible, so save all those gas and meal receipts! And again, the whole experience is just PLANE FUN!
    Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee

[peabody]

If you don't get all the trainee info, especially email, chances are they will go home and not pursue model aviation.
They need to be kept fully abreast of happenings near them.

If the AMA really wanted to land new fliers, either with strings or RC, they would send the kids 6 months of MA at no charge.....

Training kids to spin around with a toy aero plane is certainly hard work, and rewarding, but are any of the Oskash kids currently flying?

Years ago I proposed the the GSCB purchase an electric ARF Super Clown, build it, include a handle, lines and all necessary to fly it and offer it to newcomers in lieu of dues. At least they would have something new and truly ready to fly, instead of some old, bad flying thing that a member was wanting to get rid of.

Just my opinion

[Jim Thomerson]

Several years ago, I saw an ad for an RC airplane, "An excellent trainer, everything you need in one box, $79.95."  What we need is the same thing for control line, at a lower price because bellcrank, lines and handle cost less than an RC set up.  It needs to be good looking, electric, EPP foam, modular with replacement parts available, something similar to a parkflier with CL rather than RC.  I suspect there are several parkfliers on the market which could be easily modified for CL.  I wonder if a CL club were to approach one of the companies which sell same and guarantee to buy 100 CL conversions, what would happen.

Anyway, until such a CL trainer is available at the LHS and on line, we will not see much influx of young beginners, or old beginners either.

[EddyR]

 This article came from 1951 Model Airplane News. To be truthful I think putting all these kids through the one time flight thing is a waist of time for the kids. I think the adults doing it like it. It is like playing a video game, do it and walk away. People who go to the large aircraft events and drag there kids along are using it to keep the kid happy.
Until you can buy the things you need and build a plane then WALK to the flying site it is a dead issue. It is now a thing that you need a car to do. A middle age guy came over from the RC side of the field this week and wants to fly CL again like he did 20 years ago. He had a FOX 35 and a flapped stunt model then so he knows what it is all about. I offered him a Nobler wing and tail if he can build a body for it. When he gets it we will see if he ever show up again.
 I get emails asking me when the group is flying at the Huntersville field. "The group" What group. Don and I fly at the Huntersville field about one a week. MCLS the local club has meetings there 5-6 times a year. I am waiting for the big showing of kids from the Joe Nal event to show up. The next time one of the old guys shows up I think I will offer him my U/Reely.

[Dan McEntee]

This article came from 1951 Model Airplane News. To be truthful I think putting all these kids through the one time flight thing is a waist of time for the kids. I think the adults doing it like it. It is like playing a video game, do it and walk away. People who go to the large aircraft events and drag there kids along are using it to keep the kid happy.
Until you can buy the things you need and build a plane then WALK to the flying site it is a dead issue. It is now a thing that you need a car to do. A middle age guy came over from the RC side of the field this week and wants to fly CL again like he did 20 years ago. He had a FOX 35 and a flapped stunt model then so he knows what it is all about. I offered him a Nobler wing and tail if he can build a body for it. When he gets it we will see if he ever show up again.
 I get emails asking me when the group is flying at the Huntersville field. "The group" What group. Don and I fly at the Huntersville field about one a week. MCLS the local club has meetings there 5-6 times a year. I am waiting for the big showing of kids from the Joe Nal event to show up. The next time one of the old guys shows up I think I will offer him my U/Reely.

   There is no sure fire answer, you just have to do the things that you can do. Several friends and I have talked about this at length, after long rides home from Oshkosh, and sitting all day at a table at a mall show. You can't MAKE someone like something. The interest has to be inside them. At mall shows, you get all kinds of people, but at aviation related events, you are at least talking to airplane people, and airplane people are a different breed all to themselves, in my opinion. We fly the kids at KidVenture, but we also fly parents . My theory is, if you get at least one parent interested, the kids will follow. Mom and Dad have the wallet and the minivan, and we all know that's important. All we can do is just put it out there, give them a show, try to make things as easy for them as we can, and hope for the best. If you can just plant the little spark or seed of interest, it may come back to bloom later. Like I said,  one of the people that runs the C/L area at Oshkosh now was a walk through 15 years ago. How many other people we might have reached? I don't know, but you have to try. Even at the best of times, our numbers are pretty few, and with people scattered all over the country it is almost impossible to gauge results. But I feel we have to try. If we don't, the hobby will wither away and die. It hasn't so far, and I can show you letters of concern about the same issue from 50 years ago, along with the article you posted. It's the same problem with the same answers. We just have to be ready and available when people look for us.  I think it is far, far from being a waste of time.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Will Davis]

Some people might feel like the Joe Nall,  Oshkosh , and the mall shows are a waste of time , but when you spend a week with a kid like Devin in the photo below, that just kept coming back every day, helping others, bringing  other kids back with him, it makes it  all worth the effort.

Already making plans to go back to Joe Nall next year, wish I was closer to Oshkosh,

[EddyR]

Dan and Will 
    You are a good example of someone who  is having a good time showing the young ones what it is like to fly a cl model. Nothing wrong with that. But where is the results. You feel good but the kids care less. I was into muscle cars for years.I had a Hemi RR. Now I have no interest. People are not interested in CL models. I would not bother with CL except I have Don to fly with. I flew at the Huntersville field for 5 years by my self. I was ready to through it all away and Larry came along and we had a good time till his death. One local CL flyer who is a NASCAR pilot I gave a ready to fly stunt plane and he would not fly it.
  Everything everyone has said is true but where is the results.
Ed

[Dan McEntee]

Dan and Will 
    You are a good example of someone who  is having a good time showing the young ones what it is like to fly a cl model. Nothing wrong with that. But where is the results. You feel good but the kids care less. I was into muscle cars for years.I had a Hemi RR. Now I have no interest. People are not interested in CL models. I would not bother with CL except I have Don to fly with. I flew at the Huntersville field for 5 years by my self. I was ready to through it all away and Larry came along and we had a good time till his death. One local CL flyer who is a NASCAR pilot I gave a ready to fly stunt plane and he would not fly it.
  Everything everyone has said is true but where is the results.
Ed

    Hi Ed;
     The results may be intangible. You might not see it where you live. Modeling in general, and control line in particular, always has had spotty activity, with some areas it's nonexistent. That is just the way things go. Control line activity took a big nose dive in the late seventies to mid eighties, and died completely in some areas. Then there was a resurgence that I think a lot of people never thought they would see, but it happened.  We have ridden a wave over the last twenty five years that has finally crested, and we are on the other side of the slope. Just gotta keep at it, paddle back out, and wait for the next wave. Maybe it will be electric powered? No one can predict it, but I believe it will happen.  Hang in there and keep flying!
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Jim Kraft]

A week ago we had 32 CAP cadets and several AMA instructors come to our club field at Salina Kansas, (Smoky Hill Flying Club), to spend 7 days learning to fly R/C. They were all between the ages of 12 and 18 I believe. It was a lot of fun to watch as these kids were wanting to learn, and I think most of them soloed before the week was out. It cost each one of them $375.00 for the week, and I think that also included an R/C plane of some type. After talking to a few of the cadets though, they did not live near an R/C field, and did not know of any clubs in their area. It was a great experience for them, and they seemed to really enjoy it also, but time will tell if they pick it up for a hobby.

[Larry Renger]

Several years ago, I saw an ad for an RC airplane, "An excellent trainer, everything you need in one box, $79.95."  What we need is the same thing for control line, at a lower price because bellcrank, lines and handle cost less than an RC set up.  It needs to be good looking, electric, EPP foam, modular with replacement parts available, something similar to a parkflier with CL rather than RC.  I suspect there are several parkfliers on the market which could be easily modified for CL.  I wonder if a CL club were to approach one of the companies which sell same and guarantee to buy 100 CL conversions, what would happen.

Anyway, until such a CL trainer is available at the LHS and on line, we will not see much influx of young beginners, or old beginners either.

It is called the ET-1, and with all the power system is available from rsmdistribution.com !

[Dan McEntee]

     " It was a great experience for them, and they seemed to really enjoy it also, but time will tell if they pick it up for a hobby."

    Hey Jim!
     That is the part that you can't predict. I think it is something inside you that has to be reached. I have always been an airplane nut, as far back as my earliest memory.  I was born and raised near Lambert Field here in St. Louis, and around airplanes all the time. Some body who hasn't been exposed to aviation in any form, may not know they have the interest, or just not have an understanding of what is involved. I think it's up to us to provide that exposure, and then help those whop need it along. I like working with people, and when you have a kid or parent who "gets it", the look on their faces is priceless. You have to dig through a lot of rocks before you find a diamond, and sometimes they are laying right on the surface. Either way, you have to keep looking for one to find one.
    Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee
  

[Jim Kraft]

I agree Dan. I have a great grandson that is just airplane crazy. I have a grandson I that worked with flying control line, and he is now a pilot and going to school. I remember the first time I saw a control line plane fly, and I was totally taken by the sight and sound. I could not get enough of watching them fly. I was only about 5 or 6 years old, but still remember the many hours of watching them fly in Swope Park in Kansas City. That was in the ignition days, and maybe that is why I still love ignition. My folks would take me and my brother there for Sunday afternoon picknics, and they would have to drag me home. LOL. My brother could have cared less about anything aviation. By the time I was 8 years old I was building stick and tissue models and have been building and flying almost continuously all my life. So, you are right, you just have to find that one that gets it.

[dale gleason]

In line with recognizing folks who are devoting time to younger people, I'd be remiss (actually already am) if I didn't mention Mike Gibson and his work with the Boys' Ranch near Abilene. For many years now, he has mentored young men in control line activities, building and flying, and all that goes along with it, then packing up a large trailer and bringing these guys to the NATs. They fly mostly Combat and have increased Combat entries considerably.

It probably isn't all that important that any of these efforts by such dedicated people produce tons of control line afficianados; that would be nice, of course, but just having the "hands on" experiences that our hobby offers will definitely be a positive thing in their lives.

All this is self-evident, just wanted to illustrate a lot of good is happening in the tethered model airplane hobby, it's going to be around a little longer.

dg

[FLOYD CARTER]

Hard to believe that "600 flyers learned..."  The simple logistics of putting 600 different people into a handle of a flying plane pushes the bounds of credibility.  How many actually "learned to fly"?

I have let people take the handle for a few laps, but that did not constitute any "learning".

Floyd

[dave siegler]

Hard to believe that "600 flyers learned..."  The simple logistics of putting 600 different people into a handle of a flying plane pushes the bounds of credibility.  How many actually "learned to fly"?

I have let people take the handle for a few laps, but that did not constitute any "learning".

Floyd

I think you misjudge, and suggest you come out and help rather than criticize. 

At EAA we call it s training flight.  Pretty short, but some kids come cycle back multiple times and are flying alone after a few sessions. 

But yes, we do over 1500 training flights 2 circles, 6 hrs a day for 6.5 days. With glow powered airplanes.   Do the math, crazy but it is possible we have been doing it and keeping records for 18 years.  We have a good system, and many, but not enough, volunteers.  Its a blast.

[dale gleason]

When you boil it down to the least common denominator, there isn't really a lot to flying control line. There's only two things one can do with a control handle...give it "Up" or give it "Down". But then there's the timing, aye, there's the rub!

Just about all young people these days are operating electronic games that have many, many, more inputs than two. Just flying out a tank of fuel isn't too difficult for today's younger generation. The interest that is being nurtured by introducing them to airplanes is fueled by the fact that planes are not "virtual", they are real. Real noise, heat, aroma, action, observing the mechanics of the control system on the flight controls, even the pull on the lines. There is an element of excitement not found in electronic games. They must be careful, follow rules of safety, thus the discipline required. It's a pastime that requires respect.

It's all about introducing control line, not instant gratification. There are no guarantees, only time will tell if the effort pays off. It's that effort that I'm applauding, and there's a lot more of that going on than I had realized, thus this thread......    dg

[john e. holliday]

I remember one year the great George Lieb stated he had more results with the kids and newbies using throttle control planes.  Mainly his old carrier planes.   When they got dizzy they could throttle back and land.   He also stated most liked doing the touch and goes.

[Will Davis]

Quote from: FLOYD CARTER on August 25, 2013, 12:08:19 PM
Hard to believe that "600 flyers learned..."  The simple logistics of putting 600 different people into a handle of a flying plane pushes the bounds of credibility.  How many actually "learned to fly"?

I have let people take the handle for a few laps, but that did not constitute any "learning".

Floyd


Well,  I guess you just had to be there to believe it,  seemed more like 1000 ,  we had a great crew of very dedicated modelers , all were very tired by Friday, but all plan to fly more next year

[john e. holliday]

Hey, they had a hand on the handle, right!    Some catch on real fast  others you wonder about.   Same in RC, had one guy that never did learn to solo his plane.  He told me he just wanted to fly once the plane was up.  Also a question,  When does a person really learn to fly CL?

Don't answer here as I am going to open new post in the debate section.