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Author Topic: Orestes Hernandez at the handle  (Read 2996 times)

Offline Charles Carter

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Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« on: May 29, 2019, 08:17:33 AM »



I shot this video at the Golden State Stunt Championships in 2015 and I think this is a good example of the pilot at the center of circle . Enjoy! 


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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2019, 09:38:22 AM »
Ha, he holds his handle same way I do inverted, I must be awesome! Don't think I could do his over the shoulder pull outs but I might try it. Thanks for posting.

Motorman 8)
Lots of people learned to do it "wrong" and it is very hard to change.  Did you see though how smooth his motions are?  It is changes in your rotation speed that causes the palm up to produce hunting.  If you are stumbling around out there like my over the hill legs are you need every break you can get!  Learn to do the over the shoulder pullouts if you can they really save you having to rotate while looking up which can be a bad thing.  Someone on here suggested that to me when I came back in and it really helped.  Only thing you have to really do is make sure you hold the exit trajectory long enough to make it clear that the maneuver is finished.  FYI, you are not the only one still using palm up, in fact with the group I fly with I may be the only one not doing it.

Ken
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Offline Peter in Fairfax, VA

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2019, 11:16:44 AM »
Great video.  Top flier and a good rig - not seeing much running backwards, reaching out and pulling back with tenuous tension, etc.

Yes, he does sometimes rotate the handle when inverted.  Doesn't do it in the reverse wingovers, but does for the inverted laps. Seems like a good technique.


Offline Peter in Fairfax, VA

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2019, 11:21:03 AM »
So what it alternative to rotating the handle sideways, palm up, when inverted?    Leaving the handle vertical?

Offline Richard Imhoff

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2019, 12:15:10 PM »
There is no right way to hold the handle inverted, Egor Burger hold his palm down when inverted he is also a world champ. It's what is comfortable and natural for you.
Dick Imhoff  AMA 58502
 
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2019, 12:30:12 PM »
So what it alternative to rotating the handle sideways, palm up, when inverted?    Leaving the handle vertical?
Exactly
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2019, 12:39:39 PM »
There is no right way to hold the handle inverted, Egor Burger hold his palm down when inverted he is also a world champ. It's what is comfortable and natural for you.

  That's probably wrong, there is a right way, in this case vertical, so that angular offsets between the handle and airplane do not cause unintended input. That's why beginners are sometimes, apparently, told to do it - so that if you get confused, stop turning, and you will get down elevator added automatically. That having been said, it's obvious that you can overcome this with a lot of practice, sufficiently well enough to be competitive.

   Still, starting out making mistakes that then have to be overcome is a lot harder way to go than just doing it correctly in the first place.

   Brett

Offline Will Davis

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2019, 01:03:31 PM »
Charles,

Thanks for posting , good info to help our progress. ,

below is s video I shot at Joe Nall


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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2019, 01:19:07 PM »

...below is s video I shot at Joe Nall

Why is it whenever we post a YouTube video it always follows up with crash compilations?

Just asking - Ken
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Offline Peter in Fairfax, VA

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2019, 02:36:13 PM »
The Dave F/Joe Nall video has the guy walking backwards a lot.  Except in the overhead eights.

Is adding a few "extra" loops before landing popular?

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2019, 04:04:27 PM »
The Dave F/Joe Nall video has the guy walking backwards a lot.  Except in the overhead eights.

Is adding a few "extra" loops before landing popular?
One of our fliers that was there said that the air was dead.  You do that in dead air to avoid your wake.  In wind you only do it if you need to.  The extra loops are to unwind your lines for landing.  3 outsides is the norm and everybody has their own way of doing it.

ken
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Offline Charles Carter

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2019, 04:44:31 PM »
I admire Orestes's posture and his style is so cool.  He looks and moves like a professional athlete.  A person can probably pretend and act cool but Orestes won a World Championship flying a stunt pattern like that.  I mostly like his reverse wing over because he is able to rotate (almost snap) his torsal without affecting the circular path of his airplane which is most impressive.  One last thing how does he hold his left arm almost still during all these maneuvers?  I have to restrain my left arm by holding my stop watch so I don't look foolish out there. LL~

Charles

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2019, 08:34:45 PM »
I mostly like his reverse wing over because he is able to rotate (almost snap) his torsal without affecting the circular path of his airplane which is most impressive.
Charles
I noticed that too.  I really don't like crossing my arm in front of me.  Don't know why but it makes me want to corner early and that is the first things the judges see.  I am going to try it his way next time out.  With the luck I am having with weather that should be sometime in July....2020.

Ken
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Offline Charles Carter

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2019, 10:37:03 PM »
I watched Orestes reverse wing over again and it is a thing of beauty.  Doing it the way he does is an admirable goal.  It would be like when someone is trying to teach me a new dance step. HB~>

Charles

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2019, 11:14:12 PM »
I watched Orestes reverse wing over again and it is a thing of beauty.  Doing it the way he does is an admirable goal.  It would be like when someone is trying to teach me a new dance step. HB~>

   Orestes is one amazing guy, he has remarkable single-minded focus.

     Brett

Offline Jared Hays

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2019, 11:50:58 PM »
That wind is howling!

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2019, 12:00:13 AM »
That wind is howling!

   Brian Massey got about 25 at the peak on his meter - which is when the 1st and 2nd-place fliers flew! It was probably around 10-15 during Orestes' flight (which I think was a practice flight on Friday). It was pretty windy during the actual contest, but the air was *extremely smooth* and relatively easy to fly in - much like Top 20 day at the NATs earlier in the year, with almost the same results (since most of the top finishers were also at the NATs, and the entire newly-crowned-a-week-earlier FAI team was there.

   This is a very good illustration of how stunt has changed for the tremendous better in the last 30 years or so. You don't just have to get through flights in these sorts of conditions, you have to do a good flight with accurate shapes, sizes, and bottoms. The top 3 finishers were all over 600 points, and the spread was *1/3 of a point* between 1 and two, and another *1/3 of a point* between 2 and 3.

    Brett

Offline Charles Carter

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2019, 12:37:24 AM »
This video was shot on Sunday after all of the competition and awards was given out.  The wind was howling!  I was impress when I rolled up on him still flying in these strong winds.  Just like Brett stated the wind was clean like runway air.  Actually the site is an municipal airport.


Charles

Offline RknRusty

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2019, 07:22:02 AM »
Why is it whenever we post a YouTube video it always follows up with crash compilations?

Just asking - Ken
Ken, if you are logged into YouTube, it references your watch history to display what you are most frequently interested in. Mine always shows science, astronomy, and space related videos. If you only use YouTube as a guest(not logged in), it just picks what Average Joe the Tube Surfer might like.
Average Rusty the Tube Surfer
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2019, 09:23:37 AM »
Ken, if you are logged into YouTube, it references your watch history to display what you are most frequently interested in. Mine always shows science, astronomy, and space related videos. If you only use YouTube as a guest(not logged in), it just picks what Average Joe the Tube Surfer might like.
Average Rusty the Tube Surfer
I just click on the links.  Maybe I am logged in all the time and don't know it.  At least they are RC planes crashing!

ken
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Offline RknRusty

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2019, 11:29:17 AM »
 
...At least they are RC planes crashing!
Ken
LL~ Hahahahaha, yeah.

If you use Gmail, or log into Chrome or Google, you could be also automatically logging into the 'Tube. And then those teasers are taken from examples similar to what's in your "Watch" history. If you can find a "Clear History" setting, do that and it should make the teasers become more like your recent watch history. Channel members can selectively pare down their history list. All the settings junk is at the top right on all of those aforementioned programs.
I hope that's useful info, I'm pretty sure it's correct.
Rusty
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 06:58:32 PM by RknRusty »
DON'T PANIC!
Rusty Knowlton
... and never Ever think about how good you are at something...
while you're doing it!

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Congaree Flyers - Gaston, SC -  http://www.congareeflyer.com
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2019, 11:38:05 AM »
LL~ Hahahahaha, yeah.

If you use Gmail, or log into Chrome or Google, you could be also automatically logging into the 'Tube. And then those teasers are taken from examples similar to what's in your "Watch" history. If you can find a "Clear History" setting, do that and it should make the teasers become more like your recent watch history. Channel members can selectively pare down their history list. All the settings junk is at the top right on all of those aforementioned programs.
I hope that's useful info, I'm pretty sure it's correct.
Rusty
Mostly just curious. I don't use any of those unless Google logs you in automatically.  Wouldn't be surprised.  Anyway, I don't really mind seeing RC Crashes!

Ken
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Offline Ruslan Kurenkov

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2019, 02:13:34 PM »
In childhood, when I was taught to steer a training plane in the return flight, I also learned to hold my hand as it is more convenient for me. Only the palm of my hand was not to the top, but to the bottom. And only two years ago, my older and more experienced friends made me relearn how correctly. They explained to me that the hand in reverse flight (wheels up) must be kept exactly the same as in direct flight (wheels below) - always upright!
I began to notice that with the horizontal position of the hand during the return flight, especially in strong wind, when the plane flies during one lap with a large difference in speed (it is slower against the wind, and faster in the wind) - then my angular rotation speed in the center of the circle out of habit almost constant. This leads to the fact that in front of the wind the plane always strongly raised up (my hand was ahead of the plane), and downwind the plane strongly pressed to the ground because my hand was behind the plane. To eliminate the influence of the position of the hand relative to the aircraft, I had to retrain and hold my hand vertically. For me, keeping your hand at a constant height from the horizon turned out to be much easier than holding your hand strictly opposite the plane.
For such an experienced pilot as Orestes it is much easier to fly as it is seen in the video, it is more convenient for him.
Thanks for the video from Orestes and from Dave.

Regards
Ruslan

Offline Charles Carter

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2019, 09:51:16 AM »
When I watch Orestes transition from inverted flight into the outside round loops particularly interesting, because I have a tendency to put a flat on the top of my outside loops. flying inverted toward the maneuver his way might help me avoid my flat spot on the top of that loop. :-\   I will try it next time I go practice.

Charles




Offline RandySmith

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2019, 09:59:03 AM »
There is no right way to hold the handle inverted, Egor Burger hold his palm down when inverted he is also a world champ. It's what is comfortable and natural for you.

Hi Richard
Yes you can do it that way, or  other ways, but  the  right way is to keep the handle straight up and down, when you lay the handle over on its side, you can get unwanted input for either up or down, It helps the pilot  if the handle stays  straight up without changing angles. It maybe hard to do that for people that have learned different. I had to do this as  I progressed

regards
Randy

Offline Gerald Arana

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2019, 09:59:41 AM »
Mostly just curious. I don't use any of those unless Google logs you in automatically.  Wouldn't be surprised.  Anyway, I don't really mind seeing RC Crashes!

Ken

Well then..............I guess you'd have liked my figure nine (9) into the river with an Avastar converted to electric. Saved three servos and the motor. The rest (RIP) into the garbage can! Didn't like that plane anyway.........

Jerry

PS: That was last year.

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2019, 06:55:53 PM »
Just got back from trying the Orestes RWO stance.  For me it absolutely works.  Having my shoulders square to the turn makes all the difference.  Hard to make a decent score when you lead off with a crappy wingover.

Ken
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Offline Charles Carter

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2019, 07:22:56 AM »
Just got back from trying the Orestes RWO stance.  For me it absolutely works.  Having my shoulders square to the turn makes all the difference.  Hard to make a decent score when you lead off with a crappy wingover.

Ken


That is good news!  #^

Charles

Online Howard Rush

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2019, 01:32:40 PM »
Just got back from trying the Orestes RWO stance.  For me it absolutely works.  Having my shoulders square to the turn makes all the difference.  Hard to make a decent score when you lead off with a crappy wingover.

Ken

Watch Davidís, too. Itís a ballet.
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2019, 02:56:25 PM »
Watch Davidís, too. Itís a ballet.
I think he has that copyrighted.  I watched Doug Moon this AM as well.  Although very different styles, what I saw on all three was that they got their shoulders pretty much perpendicular to the turns.  That was what I was not doing.  I still find myself wanting to start the 1st turn on the wrong foot.  Does that get better with age?

Ken
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Offline Charles Carter

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2019, 09:52:15 AM »
I think he has that copyrighted.  I watched Doug Moon this AM as well.  Although very different styles, what I saw on all three was that they got their shoulders pretty much perpendicular to the turns.  That was what I was not doing.  I still find myself wanting to start the 1st turn on the wrong foot.  Does that get better with age?

Ken
.

The one thing I have noticed is that they all are set up before the airplane gets there and are waiting for the airplane to start the RWO. Regarding getting better with age I can only hope.

Charles

Online Howard Rush

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2019, 02:29:08 PM »
I still find myself wanting to start the 1st turn on the wrong foot.  Does that get better with age?

No, you run out of operational feet.
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Offline Will Davis

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2019, 09:40:42 AM »
Another World Champion Igor Burger

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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2019, 10:11:12 AM »
Another World Champion Igor Burger
Watch his position in the OH8.  I did not think the human body could do that!  I have to bend my back almost 45 degrees to see straight up.

Ken
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Offline Charles Carter

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2019, 10:34:29 AM »
Another World Champion Igor Burger




Wow! Will Davis thanks for your contributions of Dave's and Igor's videos to this thread. This should help a lot of people.

Charles

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2019, 11:05:50 AM »
Watch his position in the OH8.  I did not think the human body could do that! 

Watch David do that.  He sits in a chair.

Ken, your top stunt men do not have completely human bodies.  Two of last year's Nats finalists, for example, are part titanium. 
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2019, 01:47:11 PM »
Watch David do that.  He sits in a chair.

Ken, your top stunt men do not have completely human bodies.  Two of last year's Nats finalists, for example, are part titanium.

I have figured out the stance and along with it the reason why the OH8 is where it is.  You lean back ,look skyward ,raise your arms to the heavens and give thanks to God for not crashing in the Hourglass.

Along time ago Gieseke used to use Dave's 8 position.  It is a good way to get the judges to watch you instead of the plane especially when you have hooked your pipe in your back pocket and it looks like you have smoke coming out of your butt!  I was one of the judges that day and we were laughing so hard that he was already into the clover before we recovered.

Ken
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: Orestes Hernandez at the handle
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2019, 02:12:52 PM »

Wow! Will Davis thanks for your contributions of Dave's and Igor's videos to this thread. This should help a lot of people.

Charles

   This sort of thing is a lot more important than a lot of the quasi-technical discussions we have.

   Brett


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