old school fuel

[Lyle Spiegel]

Was reminising with an old friend and subject of fuel came up. Does anyone remember a fuel called "this Is It" ? I think it was high nitro for speed and rat racing back in the  day. Might have been sold by Franny's Chrome Specialties, from Reading, Pa. Does anyone remember Franny's?

[Steve Helmick]

Yes, I recall "Franny's", "This Is It", and also "Bill's Miniature Engines". Bill's was in Nashville, I think, and I did order some speed supplies from him. Never had any dealings with "Franny's".    Steve

[dennis lipsett]

Yes, I recall "Franny's", "This Is It", and also "Bill's Miniature Engines". Bill's was in Nashville, I think, and I did order some speed supplies from him. Never had any dealings with "Franny's".    Steve

Franny lived at 513 Vista Place Hyde Park Reading.Pa. I spent some time in his basement as a kid marveling at his chroming operation. He never allowed anyone near it for fear that a part might be disturbed. I bought my first diesel there a Mills .045 and saw enough Dooling 61s to think that they were really commonplace. They were, back in the 50s.He also had a modest stock of engines for sale but most of his work was rework for everyone who wanted the best.
He only flew a model plane once and never again as his real love was cars. I loved looking at those cars and envying anyone who could afford them
 'This is it' was a staple fuel for many speed flyers and Purple K and something that was basically called Panther P**s.
A close friend, Pete Ball was given most of the fuel and nitro etc when he closed shop. Franny passed about 7 years ago at about 90 years  of age, I'm not firm on the date. I don't know where the rest of the tools and equipment went.
I could tell you about the time a McCoy 35 with one tank of TII set a record as the fastest McCoy 35 ever. It lasted one flight but it was surely memorable.

Dennis

[Dennis Toth]

Heard of "This is it" but never ran it. We used a fuel named "RAM" for 1/2A speed/proto, ran great.

Best,    DennisT

[bob whitney]

even better was This Is It Hopped Up

[Jack R]

Dennis..do you remember a guy in the  Perth Amboy MAC named named  Gyorfi ? cant recall first name..lived in woodbridge & used to sell home brew fuel to the members and also dope in glass jars..he used to fly at woodbridge high school on sundays. I used to fly at Dalton park in PA with Bill Shafranski. where is Bill living now ? you said a while ago you talked to him

[Lyle Spiegel]

Dennis, you mentioned Panther Pxxs, and reminded me that when I was at GSCB Old Time Combat meet, Larry Scarinzi brought out a can of fuel with same  name. I recall the label listed some of the ingredients, and quickly realized it was not meant as anything but a spoof fuel, just one of Larry's comic jokes on everyone. Legend had it that at one tome Larry was selling his own fuel mix as alternate to BLAST , to go in Fox36X that he customized. Maybe Larry or other grey beard from GSCB  can fill in more details?





rry

[C.T. Schaefer]

For a bit there was 'Black Power'  and, if I remember right, the hot stuff was White Lightning.

[Dave Harmon]

I remember I bought a glass bottle of fuel in Tulsa in perhaps 58'...the stuff was brown and had that shoe polish smell...yeah..
Don't remember the name of it though.
I spiked Fox Superfuel with it and that perked up the old 35...

[Tom Foster]

even better was This Is It Hopped Up
[/quote

We called it 'Hop-Up' for short. The shoe polish smell was nitrobenzene , which is banned now.  Doolings and McCoy .60s and the like loved it.
No idea how it was shipped in glass bottles, 40%, 50% nitro and methanol... no such thing as the EPA.

[bob whitney]

can someone show  me where nitrobenzene is Banned

[Garf]

can someone show  me where nitrobenzene is Banned

That fact is well known.

[Dan Berry]

The rule book doesn't mention nitrobenzene.

[C.T. Schaefer]

Just like Propelyne Oxide, you might have difficulty buying it now.

[Andre Ming]

Dennis, you mentioned Panther Pxxs, and reminded me that when I was at GSCB Old Time Combat meet, Larry Scarinzi brought out a can of fuel with same  name. I recall the label listed some of the ingredients, and quickly realized it was not meant as anything but a spoof fuel, just one of Larry's comic jokes on everyone. Legend had it that at one tome Larry was selling his own fuel mix as alternate to BLAST , to go in Fox36X that he customized. Maybe Larry or other grey beard from GSCB  can fill in more details?

 That jug of Panther P**s was my concoction and yes, it was a spoof that was based on actual events that Larry shared with me decades ago. I'm on a road trip and currently using my phone. Once home and have acess to my computer, I think I have a photo of my jug of Panther P that I can share as well as the story behind it. All fer now.

[Dick Tyndall]

  Nitrobenzene ( "shoe polish" ) was banned by AMA as a fuel additive in the mid 1960's. I believe it was listed in the Rule Book at one time. After checking the rules on AMA's website it wasn't listed as a banned substance to use in fuel.  I don't know why it isn't listed now because this is some bad stuff to be messing with.
   "Bill's Miniature Engines" was a business owned and operated by Bill McGraw, who lived in Memphis, TN. Bill was a well known speed flier back in the 1960's and early 1970's. He started running R/C boats and later changed the business name to " Speedmaster Model Products". Bill was very successful with the boats and served the boating community with many top of the line products. He was a good friend who is in the IMPBA Hall of Fame and sadly is no longer with us.

           Dick Tyndall

[Steve Helmick]

"Tetra Nitromethane" was banned by the AMA in the rule book. Nitro Benzine was banned by the US Government...EPA, maybe. They don't allow the chemical companies to make it or sell it, along with Benzine, because of them being considered severe carcinogenics.

This leads me to think that IF you have some Nitro Benzine and think you really need to use it (you don't), you could, in AMA events where fuel is not specified. I used as much as 8% NB back in the day. Gets unpleasantly stinky at that percentage, and makes the engine tend to be very slow to come up to peak after launching. Generally, that's not desirable.   

HOWEVER, since most the AMA piston engine and jet speed and racing classes require use of standard, contest provided fuel, there is no need to have other chemicals listed in the rule book. There may be some exceptions; perhaps 1/2a and maybe some of the renegade NW rules events?    Steve

[Andre Ming]

Panther P**s:

Back in the day, due to being laid off from his primary employment, Larry was living off the proceeds from the hobby shop in the trunk of his car. He also mixed fuel and sold it. (Along with reworking engines.) He created "Panther P**s" to sell to the combat, rat race, etc, fliers. There was something like 50% nitro in it. He had the idea to put yellow dye into it (giving it a very "suspect" appearance) and called his brew "Panther P**s". Even though it was great fuel, it didn't sell well. So, he left off the yellow dye, and changed the name to "White Lightening", and it sold briskly until he dropped out of the fuel business.

When I saw that I was going to be able to attend the GSCB Nostalgia Combat Meet in 2015, I printed up a label for "Panther P**s", slapped it onto a jug of "Duke's Fuel"  and took it with me. Once at Larry's place, and our "how-do's" were over, I told him that I had found an old jug of fuel among my stash and asked if he recognized it. With that, I produced my jug of "Panther P**s". He and I both had a good laugh. When I told him it was going to the GSCB NC meet the next day, he said we needed to dye it yellow. Digging out the VERY same bottle of dye that he used so many decades ago to dye the original "PP" (and the dope used on his airplanes), he spiked it until he approximated the color of the original "PP". With that we were all set and the next day many got a kick and a laugh out of seeing a jug of "PP" at the meet.

So now you know... the REST of the story! Good DAY! (Said in my best Paul Harvey voice.)

[Lyle Spiegel]

Andre, That'
s a great story. So what I remember was correct, ie: Once upon a time real Panther P was available from Larry before changing the name to White Lightening, and "This is IT" was fuel sold by Franny in Reading, PA.
I met you at 2015 GSCB and i recall the jug of PP you brought out to spoof us!
Hope you can make it back to GSCB

[Ken Burdick]

80% nitro, 12% bean oil and prope was the fastest fuel I mixed. The bean oil was coltting and we microwaved it which seemed to help. The stuff ran remarkably well and would needle nicely.

When we design a renegade NW event, there is clause to conform to ama rules. Here is the C speed statement.

2. All current applicable Academy of Model Aeronautics Speed rules shall apply, except as follows:

[Phil Spillman]

Nitro Benzine is a carcinogen  which passes directly through the skin and is then a permanent addition to your physiology! Just like some other thinners. I was also told by my late father, an MD, that the acetone we use lodges in our bone marrow and becomes a permanent member of ourselves! This is in part why these substances are labeled "Handle with care"! They are just plain risky things for we non-chemists!

Phil Spillman

[Brett Buck]

"Tetra Nitromethane" was banned by the AMA in the rule book. Nitro Benzine was banned by the US Government...EPA, maybe. They don't allow the chemical companies to make it or sell it, along with Benzine, because of them being considered severe carcinogenics.

   None of those things is "banned" by the US government. Chemical companies make and sell them all the time, although it has been removed from some consumer products. USA is second-largest user of benzene, in particular. Benzene is considered carcinogenic, Nitro Benzene is a class 2b substance meaning it is possibly carcinogenic but insufficient data exists to say any more. Tetranitromethane is possibly carcinogenic but the real issue is that even slight contamination makes it shock-sensitive, and it is not safe to have around in significant quantities.

     Note that all are toxic - which is not the same as carcinogenic - which is at least one reason not to use them. Benzene and nitrobenzene are widely used in chemical production, for instance, nitrobenzene is used to make Tylenol.

    All this "so and so is banned!" "fencepost wisdom"  stuff  can be cleared up in about 30 seconds of searching, it's not hard. None of this stuff that the AMA prohibits is anything you really need. Most of the wild experiments came from the early days of glow where no one understood what was going on. People have gotten more than 1 hp/cc out of plain methanol and castor oil, and they are approaching the same in some racing series on unleaded pump gas.

    Brett

[john e. holliday]

Thanks Steve, guess that is why the doctor told me Tylenol was killing me.   I was taking as many as 8 pills a day to ease pain in knees.  Insurance won't pay for more injections and doctor says they aren't bad enough to replace.   As long as I keep moving they are bearable.

[Howard Rush]

80% nitro, 12% bean oil and prope was the fastest fuel I mixed. The bean oil was coltting and we microwaved it which seemed to help. The stuff ran remarkably well and would needle nicely.

Man's Fuel.  I used it in K&B .40s for free flight. 

I still have a PO can in my freezer.  I'll give it to anybody who will come to get it.

[Robert Zambelli]

Anyone remember Blue Blazer?

[Lyle Spiegel]

https://www.fishersci.com/shop/products/nitrobenzene-certified-acs-fisher-chemical/p-171852?campaign=GblChem-US_FC-Solvents&adwordskeyword=nitrobenzene&adgroup=Nitrobenzene&ppc_id=GC_goog_81689838_4299801318_nitrobenzene_p_69923406558_81

Retail price nitrobenzene for 1/2 Liter is $309.57 from Fisher. Can't imagine shipping charges. I'll stick with Powermaster or similar.

[Howard Rush]

Nitro Benzine is a carcinogen  which passes directly through the skin and is then a permanent addition to your physiology!

That’s why I smell so good.

[Lyle Spiegel]

There is one remaining hobby shop near by to me ( all others now out o business)- the shop is nearly 100% about R/C cars - shop only  stocks fuel for the nitro cars, and beside  fuel they have some small bottles of a  fluid that is added to their fuel to "scent" the exhaust odor.  it comes in several "flavors"- i wonder if it could be formulated with  shoe polish scent.  Then all the speed, racing and combat fliers who miss the scent of the old time fuels can use it , just as a nostalgia thing!

[Robert Zambelli]

When I fly my spark ignition planes, I put a teaspoon of nitrobenzine in a quart of fuel.
Many have complimented me on the exhaust scent.

Bob Z.   

[Dennis Toth]

Jack R,
I remember John Gyorfi very well. He was one of those people that changed my life. When I was living in NJ John would drive me home from the Perth Amboy MC meetings. My being part of the PAMC, I met other people that got me interested in engineering. John was a great guy, we would have Pizza on the way home, great memories. He did sell fuel (with nitro benzene - great  smell except when you got it on your clothes) and paint in quart jars. Also made tanks, simple rectangular ones with baffles. I still have a few of his tanks.

John built a Veco Smoothie powered by a Johnson 35 that flew very nice. It was maroon or dark red with metallic blue and white stripping. He also had a Stuntwagon with an Atwood 60, I never got to see that one fly.

Bill Shafranski, I lost track of. He was a pretty good stunt pilot.

Best,    DennisT

[Jim Kraft]

Maybe that is what's wrong with me. I remember about 1950 siphoning fuel from an OK fuel can to another can and got a mouth full. Pptttue. It had that great shoe polish smell but tasted terrible. I am pretty sure I got most of it washed out with the garden hose. Somehow we are not all dead, Yet. Maybe that is what makes us life long modelers. We all have fuel on our blood. That and Ambroid in our brains.

[bob whitney]

Anyone remember Blue Blazer?

Francisco Blue Blazer

[Brett Buck]

There is one remaining hobby shop near by to me ( all others now out o business)- the shop is nearly 100% about R/C cars - shop only  stocks fuel for the nitro cars, and beside  fuel they have some small bottles of a  fluid that is added to their fuel to "scent" the exhaust odor.  it comes in several "flavors"

   That's been around a while, and some of the smells are pretty appalling, "bubble gum" being notably disgusting.

    Brett

[Kreth]

We used some this is it fuel in combat and rat in about 1960.  It did have tetra-nitromethane in it.  Used it in Johnson 36BBs.  Sweet smelling.  Came in quart jars.

[Jack R]

Dennis..thank you for the reply, could not recall his first name..do recall him being a nice guy to us kids and his prices were good..Bill was really a good flyer when we were kids..miles ahead of me. now that I retired might try to get back into the hobby,still a few places to fly in ocean county and have a bunch of engines & a few ringmasters