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Author Topic: Ohio Derailment  (Read 12824 times)

Offline Steve Dwyer

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Ohio Derailment
« on: February 17, 2023, 08:35:59 AM »
How sad the public has to fall to the consequences of big $$$ corporate profits when a mishap happens like here. One day you tell your kids you love them the next day you tell them not to drink the water or breath the air with no definitive hope in site. 

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2023, 09:19:48 AM »
How sad the public has to fall to the consequences of big $$$ corporate profits when a mishap happens like here. One day you tell your kids you love them the next day you tell them not to drink the water or breath the air with no definitive hope in site.

     Do you have a factual point to make, or do you have only garment-rending emotionalism?

      Brett

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2023, 10:17:08 AM »
     Do you have a factual point to make, or do you have only garment-rending emotionalism?

      Brett

I betting on the latter.


The real question is; how did this happen with the brilliant Mayor Pete at the helm of the Transportation Administration?

Derek

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2023, 10:36:04 AM »
The train totaled 151 cars — equating to about 9,300 feet in length — and weighed 18,000 tons, which is much larger than employees said was safe."
https://nypost.com/2023/02/16/toxic-train-broke-down-two-days-before-ohio-derailment-workers/

Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2023, 11:51:39 AM »
Bret,

"garment rendering emotionalism", that's a clever response. Yes it has affected me somewhat emotionally, we have friends that live in Ohio, not directly affected but it brings to mind the hopelessness people feel when a disaster occurs, response information is scanty and lives are affected. 

Steve


Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2023, 12:58:13 PM »
Bret,

"garment rendering emotionalism", that's a clever response. Yes it has affected me somewhat emotionally, we have friends that live in Ohio, not directly affected but it brings to mind the hopelessness people feel when a disaster occurs, response information is scanty and lives are affected. 

Steve

  I agree, it is a terrible situation, and I feel bad for those involved. Everybody cares.

     However, getting all weepy over the tragedy of it all *does not solve any problems*, in this or any other case. You are making an appeal to emotion to support your dislike of "big $$$ corporate profits" - when you have absolutely no information that supports that as the cause, and therefore has no way to resolve it. Not to mention it, yet again, depends on the premise that there is an ongoing war between classes. There is not, this is a construct of the left.

    This is why this sort of stereotypical liberal response is so irritating - it's just more of the same irrational emotionalism, which is an *absolute cancer* to society, as evidenced by endless recent events (Wuhan flu, George Floyd, global warming, etc). 

      Brett

Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2023, 01:46:31 PM »
How is it emotionalism is a cancer to society? Isn't that a bit of a stretch to say?  If the left remained quiet, no one spoke up and these events were allowed to just dissipate with time does that solve or accomplish anything? No question I think we are all sick and tired of the same old ranting and wining whether it be police brutality, lack of gun control, mass shootings or events lacking regulation. But what do do you recommend as a solution or an approach? How is it fixed??

It's very frustrating (hopeless) when you are at the receiving end of the punch. Already it's Mayor Pete's problem, this Ohio mess will end in a congressional review years to come with only proposed stronger regulations and restrictions to the rail system profiteers. The Republicans will claim it a sham, over reaction and a means of taking profits away from their constituents. In the mean time a woman in Ohio has no drinking water, the air in her home is contaminated and she has no place for her and her kids to live. As for George Floyd, or the Ahmaud Arbery lynching would anything have happened without a voice and movement? the Georgia DA tried to ignore it for months. I'd still like to hear how emotionalism is a cancer to society when society is out of control. You're on!

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2023, 02:45:26 PM »
How is it emotionalism is a cancer to society?
Because it usually prevents an effective fix for the problem from being implemented while we rally around the emotional one.  We leap to put massive regulations on the already massively regulated rail industry.   And after we regulate them to death, we can switch to protesting the decline of our retirement accounts.  I am willing to bet that when we get the precise cause of this accident we are going to find that someone didn't follow the existing regulations and/or company policy and, as our knee jerks, we will blame the company and the government followed shortly, or in this case sooner, blame Trump.

Ken
« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 05:24:43 PM by Ken Culbertson »
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Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2023, 03:54:17 PM »
How is it emotionalism is a cancer to society? Isn't that a bit of a stretch to say?  If the left remained quiet, no one spoke up and these events were allowed to just dissipate with time does that solve or accomplish anything? No question I think we are all sick and tired of the same old ranting and wining whether it be police brutality, lack of gun control, mass shootings or events lacking regulation. But what do do you recommend as a solution or an approach? How is it fixed??

It's very frustrating (hopeless) when you are at the receiving end of the punch. Already it's Mayor Pete's problem, this Ohio mess will end in a congressional review years to come with only proposed stronger regulations and restrictions to the rail system profiteers. The Republicans will claim it a sham, over reaction and a means of taking profits away from their constituents. In the mean time a woman in Ohio has no drinking water, the air in her home is contaminated and she has no place for her and her kids to live. As for George Floyd, or the Ahmaud Arbery lynching would anything have happened without a voice and movement? the Georgia DA tried to ignore it for months. I'd still like to hear how emotionalism is a cancer to society when society is out of control. You're on!

First of all, the left didn't speak up. This derailment happened on Feb 3rd. I knew about it by the 4th. On the 6th, the brilliant decision to have a "controlled release" happened, spreading these toxic chemicals into the air and surrounding area. Here you are on the 17th proclaiming to be "the voice" of the people... When did you learn about it? Yesterday,  when CNN decided to finally report on it?

Your "gun control" argument has been debunked long ago. Perhaps, if leftist judges would quit releasing the people that cause 99% of the gun crime in this country, we would see an improvement. 

In regards to Ohio; where is FIMA? Why is the EPA saying it's no big deal, when it clearly is?

The fact that you would compare Floyd, a violent criminal, to Aubrey a kid out for a jog, shows you have no real opinion on these matters.  You just repeat the standard leftist talking point.

Go home, and try again.

Derek

« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 04:14:20 PM by Derek Barry »

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2023, 04:15:15 PM »
I will preface this with - I don't think Steve is a bad guy with malicious intent, and I certainly don't know anything to make me assume he is a bad guy - just wildly midirecting is energy....

How is it emotionalism is a cancer to society? Isn't that a bit of a stretch to say?  If the left remained quiet, no one spoke up and these events were allowed to just dissipate with time does that solve or accomplish anything?

 Because while you are wailing with torment or claiming victimhood from mysterious forces, you *aren't doing anything useful to solve the problem*. If you are angry about some problem, channel that into something effective.    No one said you had to remain quiet (and you and the like-minded certainly aren't..) But it accomplishes nothing at all, and it shows you have no interest in a solution to whateveer problem you are talking about.

Of course you *can't* do that, because you have already defined the enemy/problem incorrectly as a matter of faith, and therefore decide on ineffective or counter-productive solutions. For example:

Quote
No question I think we are all sick and tired of the same old ranting and wining whether it be police brutality, lack of gun control, mass shootings or events lacking regulation. But what do do you recommend as a solution or an approach? How is it fixed??

   Listen to yourself - every one of those "problems" is either incorrectly defined, or *caused by responding to emotionalism*. Your philosophy, wrong, has shaped your view of the world and the forces in it, so it is also wrong. So it is literally impossible for you to see any effective solution.

    You have no answers because your philosphy is dedicated to *destroying the fabric of western society* that used to prevent these situations, or limit it. And, you don't even bother with several inconvenient facts - that gun control is literally illegal, mass shootings and violent crime in general are *way down* compared to historical levels over, say, the last 75 years. Except for placed where strict gun control is in place, or claimed - like Chicago.

     I am not saying you did it, but people who think similarly were marching down New York streets less than 3 years ago shouting "what do we want? Dead Cops! When do we want it? NOW!". You have convinced a large segment of the population that the cops are out hunting them and are the enemy - what do you think that does to police encounters? It's a darn good way to get otherwise good kids killed - like the kid in St. Louis who got shot when he tried to assault an officer and  take his gun.

 Many places greatly reduced police budget, wow, crime skyrocketed. Seattle ceded an entire section of the city and abandoned a police station that had been attacked, and gee, guess what, the CHOP vigilante squads immediately turned it into Soweto.

  So, what has been done to date in the service of leftist principles has done nothing but *make these problems worse*. Your solution - do it some more!  It's a classic positive feedback loop.

   The last 50-60 years have been nothing but an attack on every foundational principle of the USA and Western civilization. You are having an effect (that most people predicted - chaos and degeneracy), and now you are looking for other boogeymen to blame it on, in order to justify redoubling our efforts.

   Want to change it? DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!  That will take a very fundamental change in the way you view the world and society and an admission that your philosphy  has caused it.

    You got into this situation because many people have lied to you for all your life, they are manipulating you to create this situation, and are exploiting it for their own ends. That is the first and most important thing to recognize, if you do not, then you will never get past that stumbling block.

    Or double down, keep wringing you hands and screaming "won't someone PLEASE think of the children!!!" and blaming everyone else for the situation. And watch it all continue to slide downhill.

     Brett
« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 04:45:59 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2023, 04:30:44 PM »
The real question is; how did this happen with the brilliant Mayor Pete at the helm of the Transportation Administration?

   Are you saying being gay, and briefly the mayor of a small midwest town, does not adequately prepare one for being in charge of a hugely complicated and technically advanced transportation system in the biggest economy in the world? Heaven forfend!

    Of the Biden administration, Buttigieg is by far one of the most competent and sane people involved. He is not a raving leftist lunatic or mentally deficient. In any case, there is layer upon layer of bureaucracy between Pete and the people actually doing something - which is just another symptom os Steve's problem.

   Of the 2020 Democrat field, Pete was by far the best (in my opinion) candidate, in that he wasn't clinically insane.

   Brett

Offline RC Storick

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2023, 05:17:15 PM »


   Of the 2020 Democrat field, Pete was by far the best (in my opinion) candidate, in that he wasn't clinically insane.

   Brett

Too funny! Maybe AOC could be the VP then  LL~ And Fetterneck could be Secretary of state
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2023, 05:33:47 PM »

   Of the 2020 Democrat field, Pete was by far the best (in my opinion) candidate, in that he wasn't clinically insane.

   Brett

Brett, you are on a roll today - keep going!

Ken
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2023, 06:00:11 PM »
Too funny! Maybe AOC could be the VP then  LL~ And Fetterneck could be Secretary of state

 Kamala is hardly any better than AOC, and she laughs bizarrely at inappropriate times over some joke we are not in on - or was delivered by the voices in her head.

      I genuinely don't have any big problem with Buttigieg, he seems far more sensible than almost any of them.

    Brett

Offline RC Storick

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2023, 01:14:36 AM »
I just watched a Youtube video of what the tracks look like in that area. Every 5 feet there was a kink. If the train was moving faster than 5MPH I don't know how it could not derail. Where is all road and rail maintenance?
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Offline Frank Imbriaco

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2023, 07:24:31 AM »
Having a hard time believing that the ground water contaminants tested at only 3 PBB (parts per billion). I believe a lot of what spilled and burned are petro-chemical.

Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2023, 07:48:08 AM »
Because while you are wailing with torment or claiming victimhood from mysterious forces, you *aren't doing anything useful to solve the problem*. If you are angry about some problem, channel that into something effective.    No one said you had to remain quiet (and you and the like-minded certainly aren't..) But it accomplishes nothing at all, and it shows you have no interest in a solution to whateveer problem you are talking about.


Bret,

This is a bit of grandstanding on your part. It's ludicrous for you to say "you" have no interest in the solution. in my opening I asked you what was your solution to the problem, but instead you responded by elaborating how the left simply complains accomplishing nothing. On a broad brush the "complainers" have consistently recommended solutions or change only to be met with absolute resistance. It'd take more time than I want to spend to elaborate on this point and I feel would fall on deaf ears unfortunately. In the Ohio case, the company would not even respond to the public's request for information. If we can't communicate without it being called emotionalism nothing is achievable. Take away politics, partisan polarization, radicalism and hatred we may come to terms and even accomplish something. More specifically how a railroad maintains its equipment balanced against profits comes down to why we have such accidents. Look I'm a retired registered Republican who owned and ran (survived) his own business for almost 30 years but I'm sick of the BS in Washington and radicalized politicians serving personal interests that should not be in office because they lack the principles and capacity to do what they were hired for. That goes for Democrats and Republicans. It's high time to listen!

On a more desirable topic attached is a shot of my just covered PDK Ringmaster Bipe 45 awaiting paint. OS LA 46 up front.

Steve



Offline Gary Dowler

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2023, 04:42:16 PM »
How sad the public has to fall to the consequences of big $$$ corporate profits when a mishap happens like here. One day you tell your kids you love them the next day you tell them not to drink the water or breath the air with no definitive hope in site.
So, a massive derailment happens.  There are millions in property damage, both the the railroad and to the immediate infrastructure, many people hurt and many animals dead. Plus both the railroad and the owner of the chemicals that spilled got an enormous public relations black eye.

So where, exactly, does a drive for "massive corporate profits" fit into this scenario?

Gary
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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2023, 12:40:48 AM »
 
    This is why this sort of stereotypical liberal response is so irritating - it's just more of the same irrational emotionalism, which is an *absolute cancer* to society, as evidenced by endless recent events (Wuhan flu, George Floyd, global warming, etc). 

      Brett

 Once again, Brett hits the nail precisely on the head.  y1

 I can't support the view of Buttigieg on any level though, he's just a creepy little puppet IMO.
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Offline Gary Dowler

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2023, 07:37:46 AM »
I just watched a Youtube video of what the tracks look like in that area. Every 5 feet there was a kink. If the train was moving faster than 5MPH I don't know how it could not derail. Where is all road and rail maintenance?
What you state is physically impossible to achieve.  When you look at a picture of railroad tracks that look horribly warped and kinked, what you are usually seeing it a shot taken looking straight down the tracks with a telephoto lens, and this invariably renders this very misleading visual image. The reality is a tiny fraction of the appearance.  While there is no such thing as absolute perfection in maintaining of the tracks,  Rest assured that all class 1 railroads place tremendous emphasis on safety and maintaining the right of way. Derailments can cost them enormous sums of money in property damage, liability for injuries/deaths as well as a host of federal fines, penalties and other various law suits.   Proper track care is pretty cheap insurance, the railroads know this.  A number of factors can be involved here that are outside the control of the railroad, including, but not limited to, weather (temperature extremes are very hard on track) and deliberate sabotage.

Gary
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2023, 09:01:31 AM »
What you state is physically impossible to achieve.  When you look at a picture of railroad tracks that look horribly warped and kinked, what you are usually seeing it a shot taken looking straight down the tracks with a telephoto lens, and this invariably renders this very misleading visual image. The reality is a tiny fraction of the appearance.  While there is no such thing as absolute perfection in maintaining of the tracks,  Rest assured that all class 1 railroads place tremendous emphasis on safety and maintaining the right of way. Derailments can cost them enormous sums of money in property damage, liability for injuries/deaths as well as a host of federal fines, penalties and other various law suits.   Proper track care is pretty cheap insurance, the railroads know this.  A number of factors can be involved here that are outside the control of the railroad, including, but not limited to, weather (temperature extremes are very hard on track) and deliberate sabotage.

Gary


I will find the video and post it. But don't believe your eyes.



While this is not the same train it does show the poor maintenance of the tracks



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Offline Gary Dowler

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2023, 09:54:30 AM »

I will find the video and post it. But don't believe your eyes.



While this is not the same train it does show the poor maintenance of the tracks


The video you just posted has nothing to do with the derailment in question!  The derailment was caused by a defect in a wheel on a car. probably a journal bearing, that caused one wheel set to derail, leading to more and It took place on the Norfolk Southern's main line.  The video you linked is on a small class 3 branch line serving a very limited number of customers, and any operations on such track have strict limits regarding both weight and speed. The telephoto lens used in this video  (A) makes it appear vastly worse than it is, and (B) its played at 8X speed (obtained that info from another source), again making things appear vastly worse than they are.  Thge two are simply not connected.
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2023, 10:40:27 AM »
Connected or not Which I stated in the post shows the disarray and mismanagement of the infrastructure funds. Where is the money going? Does anyone see any building of anything? Both sides are guilty of miss management but Pothole Pete is the worst.

This regime is the most corrupt and inefficient is US history. I bet Obummer is glad about that Along with Jimmy. Those guys can exhale a sigh of relief.

I'm sure I am missing something but we have a guy who thinks he's a woman a supreme court justice who can't tell you what a woman is. A nuclear waste guy stealing woman's cloths (of course he'll get off) we have a guy who took Maternity leave (I wonder how breastfeeding went) before he came back to a shipping catastrophe. We have morons in congress who think Guam is going to capsize and one who never saw a Garbage disposal. Shall I go on? We are watching our country being flushed.
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Offline John Hammonds

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2023, 03:12:17 PM »
I'm sure I am missing something but we have a guy who thinks he's a woman a supreme court justice who can't tell you what a woman is. A nuclear waste guy stealing woman's cloths (of course he'll get off) we have a guy who took Maternity leave (I wonder how breastfeeding went) before he came back to a shipping catastrophe. We have morons in congress who think Guam is going to capsize and one who never saw a Garbage disposal. Shall I go on? We are watching our country being flushed.
Trust me Robert, the woke nonsense you mention isn't specific to the US.

We've had the Scottish 1st minister (Since resigned) pass a law allowing people aged 16+ in Scotland to gender self identify. What could possibly go wrong? Well, for starters a male rapist decided to identify as a woman and briefly got placed in a woman's prison. (All necessary plumbing was still in place). Talk about a kid in a candy store.

We have the police trying to reason with protesters who have super glued themselves to the road to save the planet and then arrest someone who forcibly removes one of them so he can get to work.

We have had someone being arrested for "Private (Silent)  prayer" within 100 yards of an abortion clinic.

But it's not all bad, I've decided to self identify as a lesbian trapped in a male body and of course you got "Ginge and Whinge" (Harry and Meghan). Good luck with that.  H^^ na#

TTFN
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Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2023, 03:30:25 PM »
So, a massive derailment happens.  There are millions in property damage, both the the railroad and to the immediate infrastructure, many people hurt and many animals dead. Plus both the railroad and the owner of the chemicals that spilled got an enormous public relations black eye.

So where, exactly, does a drive for "massive corporate profits" fit into this scenario?

Gary

The N-S Railroad reported profits up 9% to 3.27 Billion for last year. Where does this fit into the scenario of a massive accident now being blamed on poor maintenance??  I'm lost on this question.

Steve

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2023, 05:55:48 PM »
The N-S Railroad reported profits up 9% to 3.27 Billion for last year. Where does this fit into the scenario of a massive accident now being blamed on poor maintenance??  I'm lost on this question.

Steve
So their profit is up. So? Do you have evidence that there is direct correlation between corporate profit and this derailment? The way you stated your post seems to indicate that you are one of these people who hears the term corporate profit, and automatically equates this with corruption and greed.  I hope I am wrong on that, but it is a fact that profit is THE ONLY reason that ANY business has EVER been started.  I see a lot of people who get very worked up at the mere mention of corporate profits. Problem is its not their concern.  The only people to whom this should matter are the shareholders.

Gary
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2023, 05:58:13 PM »
The N-S Railroad reported profits up 9% to 3.27 Billion for last year. Where does this fit into the scenario of a massive accident now being blamed on poor maintenance??  I'm lost on this question.

   Who says it has anything at all to do with it? Or are you just assuming that it does? As Derek notes above - the environmental impact (probably not a disaster...) was caused by pouring the chemicals in a ditch and igniting them - with, by all accounts, EPA thumbs up. Was it a necessary evil - controlled burn to prevent an explosion in a bad circumstance - or malfeasance?  What is the true impact to nearby residents (specifically), and was that a better option than just letting it blow at random?

    The factual answer to all those questions is - neither you, nor I, nor anyone else, actually knows.

   Your comment above illustrated my point - your perspective/philosophy prevents you from even asking legitimate questions, you immediately and without any objective evidence assume that some large corporation, taking profits at the expense of safety,  must be the cause. You have absolutely no information to support it, but that is beside the point, apparently. That's what I meant about emotionalism, your gut reaction is to blame a rich guy, so, therefore, that must be true.

     It's entirely possible that Norfolk-Southern is to blame, I have no idea and neither do you. But I guarantee they *will* be blamed in the court of public opinion, because journalists for the most part have exactly the same defect in their reasoning as you do, and can only see a chance to exploit this opportunity to further their/your cause, facts be damned, let's take to the streets! Burn a few SUVs, put some CEOs in jail, we are MAD, we want blood!   IOW - completely irrational.

    Brett

p.s. To your other comment - why would I offer a solution to a problem that has not been defined, or for which I have no direct information? And for which I am probably unqualfied to solve in any case? That's exactly what I mean, public sensationalism shouldn't be taking the place of a proper evaluation by relevant experts - not journalists, politicians, political appointees, the ladies on the View, or Steve Dwyer. That's how problems used be solved. This is how "public policy sensationalists" have taken over and systematically destroyed even the notion of careful evaluation by experts.

    You, in the very first post, skipped all those inconvenient and boring steps, and immediately started blaming someone. *THAT* is the emotionalism trumping objective reasoning skills.

     
« Last Edit: February 19, 2023, 08:05:22 PM by Brett Buck »

Offline Norm Faith Jr.

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2023, 08:57:42 PM »
After twenty years in uniform, I decided to make a change in 1987 and embarked into the civilian world once more. Around the beginning of 2009, there was hardly a day that I didn't wish I was still wearing that uniform again. Many on here can probably relate to the way I was beginning to feel. I felt safe in that uniform; I had things under control in that uniform; I had responsibilities in that uniform; most of all people depended on me in that uniform. All of the things that are going down in our society now of days has caused me to feel as if those twenty years were a waste of my youth. Our country is being tourn apart by all of the lies and deception that is being fed to our society on a daily basis. Liberal Socialist and the WOKE movement are trying and succeeding to re-write history. Media outlets glorify the destruction of our history. There is an expanding movement to hold a particular section of society responsible for things that took place well over two hundred years ago, many of which are exaggerated for impact. Many things that are happening today have occurred in one shape our another in recent history that resulted in some very dark times for the human race. The recent balloon fiasco, and the train derailment in point. Blame it on everything other than the real source of origin. I'm 75 years old now and still wish I was back in that uniform. Anyone who served with me or worked for me, would tell you how I would handle the "Wokeness" that is trying to infiltrate our branches of the military...let's say I had opinions and no fear to express them. (Ty knows) To paraphrase Brett..."You have been lied to." 
Norm
« Last Edit: February 20, 2023, 10:13:38 PM by Norm Faith Jr. »
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2023, 09:20:29 PM »

I'm 75 years old now and still wish I was back in that uniform.


Me too - Ken
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Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2023, 02:43:39 PM »

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2023, 04:50:17 PM »
Check this out, I wish I owned stock in N-S railroad.


https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/17/business/energy-environment/norfolk-southern-derailment-safety.html

  None of which tells you anything about this particular case, and hardly comes from an objective source.

      As noted, journalists have the same logical reasoning flaw/blind spot - they are setting up the prosecution in the court of public opinion, on the premise of class warfare, i. e. rich people are bad and caused this with their greed. With may be true, may not be, we have absolutely no information.

        Brett

Offline Al Ferraro

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2023, 06:47:25 PM »
  The Big Guy visits the Ukraine today with an extra $500 million in hand.
 Ohio gets the bird.
Al

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2023, 07:17:12 PM »
  The Big Guy visits the Ukraine today with an extra $500 million in hand.
 Ohio gets the bird.
Al
Ohio is a red state.  What did you expect?

Ken
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Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2023, 06:28:58 AM »
Ken,

The old guy is over there spending money because he expects the deep pocketed N-S railroad to handle their own mess. Probably a little "I told you so" after the prior adminstration took away the regulations he has been trying to reinstate.

Offline John Lindberg

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2023, 07:12:08 AM »
I understand the Railroad involved in the derailment is owned largely by "Blackrock" and J/P. Morgan, the ESG people. This may explain the lack of complaints by the anti-capitalists.  :!

Offline BillLee

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2023, 08:19:28 AM »
An opportunity to learn a bit:
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Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2023, 07:54:16 AM »
Well folks we've had a little breathing time here, so in case you missed the CNN constructed town hall meeting in Palestine last night hosted by Jake Tapper and Sara Sidner narrating two separated groups of town folk I'd say you missed some entertainment.

Everyone had their chance in the two and one half hours to express their fears, discuss health issues and anger. The N-S CEO Alan Shaw showed up, he's a pretty cool cucumber with a lot of apologies and no real answers except to say "I'm with you I promise" but I really can't say much right now pending the NTSB report but in reality we all know the N-S lawyers threatened to castrate him if he said anything more. He acted like the well paid running back that had to take some hits. He had little choice, he knew very well the stockholder fans would be paying close attention. Probably the biggest fat lip was when one homeowner with his property closest to the accident site said "Your Company Stinks". Alan reached for the tissue box on that one...just kidding.

Of course gov. Dewine came in and went so far to say he would agree to stay overnight in Palestine in a show of compassion but of course more so to attempt to retain what he could of the 4700 voters that live there. Biden's EPA czar Mike Regan came in with both six shooters drawn from both holsters aimed at N-S. The Ohio health commissioner came forward with his open arm pitch and promised hugs for all, I'm not sure whether to call him the good doctor or the good politician.

I think one take away was a mom in the audience asking Shaw if it was normal for a train to continue on fire for 20 miles. Another wanted to know why something wasn't done when calls to 911 went out that a train steaming for Palestine was on fire. But most importantly the folks asked if N-S's shallow promise to assure their town now a Love Canal would be brought back to normal was displayed in the way they immediately simply laid new tracks over the chemically saturated leacheating ground so the trains could continue to run. One said it was a little unnerving to see 50 trains a day now pass by the smoldering wreckage. Business as usual!!

So what's next, JD Vance promises some action by calling for an investigation in Washington. Trump visits Palestine yesterday blaming the accident on Joe Biden, thank God he didn't toss out paper towel rolls. Buttigieg is visiting today and will probably say the railroads must spend some money to be safe. And of course Shaw returns to his cushy Florida lifestyle enjoying a $4.4m annual salary while his team mates pat him on the back stepping of his private jet saying good job no yardage but let's talk about winning the next one.

If you're bored now and would like some real enlightenment look up the former head of the FRA Ditmeyer's article on the state of the railroads. Scary stuff.

Offline Dwayne Donnelly

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2023, 10:18:22 AM »
The train had a mechanical failure (axle breaking?) prior to derailing, it also didn't meet the requirements to be equipped with  ECP braking system even if the FAST ACT was passed  so  the accident was no  fault of anyone in Washington past or present, so unless someone in maintenance dropped the ball inspecting the cars it was just bad luck. 
My purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2023, 11:04:10 AM »
Well folks we've had a little breathing time here, so in case you missed the CNN constructed town hall meeting in Palestine last night hosted by Jake Tapper and Sara Sidner narrating two separated groups of town folk I'd say you missed some entertainment.

Everyone had their chance in the two and one half hours to express their fears, discuss health issues and anger......

   Proving my point better than I ever could! This is exactly the blind spot/warped perspective I was warning you about.

     How many of those people have any training or knowledge of any technical topic, much less expertise in railroad operations or chemical toxicity?  So what material value is a "town hall" of wails of torment and hand-wringing about safety? Next up, the gals from "The View" discussing loop quantum gravity!

      Just so much fatuous emotionalizing, a televised group therapy session, those terrible rich people did it to us again!  It adds nothing of value to preventing this supposed "tragedy", a cataclysmic event wherein, so far, no one has been detectably harmed and the left's own chosen experts (the beloved-of-the-left EPA) have said there is no cause for concern. The court of public opinion/mob rules, off with their heads!

    Brett

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2023, 11:26:40 AM »
The train had a mechanical failure (axle breaking?) prior to derailing, it also didn't meet the requirements to be equipped with  ECP braking system even if the FAST ACT was passed  so  the accident was no  fault of anyone in Washington past or present, so unless someone in maintenance dropped the ball inspecting the cars it was just bad luck. 
All true, but what good is a tragedy if you can't blame it on Trump?  What interests me is how these chemicals which are supposed to end life as we know it in Eastern Ohio or blow Palestine off of the map not be considered either toxic or hazardous?
Bottom line, someone in the company screwed the pooch on this one.  Government can do nothing but make it worse.

Ken
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Offline Derek Barry

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2023, 01:41:46 PM »
Oh Pete...

Offline Steve Dwyer

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2023, 02:18:18 PM »
Brett,

The town folks want answers N-S should be giving them. These people have no scientific or medical knowledge about the spilled chemicals, they are far from experts and don't pretend to be. They simply want to know if their town will be left clean and free of "potentially cancer causing chemicals" particularly in the future. It's based on fear, and a normal reaction the average homeowner will have when their lives are affected. Even you quite possibly would feel a bit concerned if a near by disaster took place. Tell me you wouldn't attend a town meeting fraught with questions if your drinking water had been contaminated. 

Palestine's issue is potentially the tip of the iceberg to the same old problem the public has experienced for years. Look up the number of Superfund Sites that exist if you don't believe it. That's how these people are thinking. In years to come if the good people in Palestine start experiencing unusual illness will you still label it "hand-ringing emotionalism"?  It's time to display some empathy for these folks.

Steve



Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2023, 06:58:18 PM »
Trump did it. Loosened the Obama regulations. Cars carrying dangerous substances would have had auto activated brakes in the event of a derailment. Trump caved into Billion dollar rail lobby.

Offline Norm Faith Jr.

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2023, 07:32:12 PM »
Trump did it. Loosened the Obama regulations. Cars carrying dangerous substances would have had auto activated brakes in the event of a derailment. Trump caved into Billion dollar rail lobby.

It's not Trump's fault...George Stephenson is the one directly responsible for it.
Norm
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Offline BillLee

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2023, 07:40:55 PM »
Again, perhaps a bit of factual information instead of the .... above.

The NTSB report: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Documents/RRD23MR005%20East%20Palestine%20OH%20Prelim.pdf
Bill Lee
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Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2023, 07:53:16 PM »
Trump advocated the deregulation. His administration did it.

Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2023, 07:58:10 PM »
Trump never pays anybody. Does he have 500 million? Did he ever. Interesting how a Jersey business guy never talked to any of the independent contractors who built the AC Trump disaster casino.

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2023, 08:36:04 PM »
Trump advocated the deregulation. His administration did it.
You seem to have all of the answers.  Just what regulations did Trump repeal and how would they have prevented this accident. The train was under the speed limit, the track sensors worked, the crew was alerted, the emergency braking system worked.  A bearing overheated faster than the sensors could detect it.  It is called "SH** HAPPENS".  I am sure they will find something that was not done to specs but I seriously doubt that the regulations themselves had anything to do with this disaster.         

Ken                                                                                                                                                                                                       
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Offline Al Ferraro

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Re: Ohio Derailment
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2023, 08:49:12 PM »
Trump never pays anybody. Does he have 500 million? Did he ever. Interesting how a Jersey business guy never talked to any of the independent contractors who built the AC Trump disaster casino.
  Trump brought in pallets of water in tractor trailers for the people in the affected area. Biden to the people of East Palestine, your SOL.  n1
 FYI, I know independent contractors that did construction work for Trump in NJ and said Trump paid on time and they like working for him.
Al


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