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Author Topic: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use  (Read 6832 times)

steven yampolsky

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Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« on: February 16, 2012, 07:24:12 AM »
Is there an equivalent to dope thinner that I can buy from Home Depot or Lowes?

Offline Larry Cunningham

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 08:13:23 AM »
In a pinch, I thinned butyrate dope and sprayed it without problems using hardware store lacquer thinner. I also used the same cheap thinner for cleaning brushes that had been used to apply nitrate/talc filler. It was in a yellow can, I think maybe the brand was Sunnyside.

Considering the low cost of this thinner, buy a quart of it to test. If it doesn't work well, it's generally useful for cleaning brushes and guns, etc.

L.

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Offline billbyles

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 08:36:27 AM »
Is there an equivalent to dope thinner that I can buy from Home Depot or Lowes?

Nitrate dope can be thinned using butyrate dope thinner, however butyrate dope cannot be thinned using nitrate dope thinner.  If you can find a lacquer thinner similar to the old DuPont 3608S (not the newer VOC compliant V3608S which will not thin any dope) then I imagine it will work for thinning nitrate.  Why not just order the thinner that you need from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty...it is no more expensive than an unknown lacquer thinner from a building supply outfit.
Bill Byles
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So. Cal.

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2012, 10:20:47 AM »
Nitrate dope can be thinned using butyrate dope thinner, however butyrate dope cannot be thinned using nitrate dope thinner.  If you can find a lacquer thinner similar to the old DuPont 3608S (not the newer VOC compliant V3608S which will not thin any dope) then I imagine it will work for thinning nitrate.  Why not just order the thinner that you need from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty...it is no more expensive than an unknown lacquer thinner from a building supply outfit.


Bill,
I just have to ask this question and your the man to give me the answer. I just ordered Sig products and while I don't use much nitrate dope I still have some. They sell only one thinner and I have used it for years to thin both of their dopes. I have even used it to thin Brodak dope.. So what makes their thinner compatable with both types of dope and none of the others seem to be able to accomplish this feat. Mind you if I could find a cheap substitute I'd use it but at this point in my life I really don't have time to experiment.


Dennis
d

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2012, 11:22:54 AM »
 R%%%%
I have to ask, what motivates a person to use a thinner not engineered for the product?
Money??
so then to save 10$ you would risk 100's of hours of labor to save 10$ ?
I guess I dont understand the motivation
Please, do yourself a favor, use the thinner designed for the product,, Just because some bargain basement thinner seems to work, does NOT mean its accomplishing the task it should,,
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steven yampolsky

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2012, 11:53:07 AM »
I have to ask, what motivates a person to use a thinner not engineered for the product?
Convenience.

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2012, 12:01:57 PM »
R%%%%
I have to ask, what motivates a person to use a thinner not engineered for the product?
Money??
so then to save 10$ you would risk 100's of hours of labor to save 10$ ?
I guess I dont understand the motivation
Please, do yourself a favor, use the thinner designed for the product,, Just because some bargain basement thinner seems to work, does NOT mean its accomplishing the task it should,,

Mark,

Absolutely! We both have backgrounds in painting using Automotive products, I don't mix Brands.

Charles
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Offline Bob Whitely

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2012, 03:49:56 PM »
I got this from Larry Fernandez and if any of you have seen his planes they
are front row quality!  Just go to any Auto Zone and get a gallon of their
thinner. It is Rustoleum lacquer thinner high solvency. They make two kinds so get
the one I named. The other one is no good and won't even clean a spray gun.
Be sure it says high solvency on the can. I use strictly Sig dope and Certified from
Aircraft Spruce both nitrate and butyrate and this thinner will cut both, no
problems. I do not use Brodak so don't know if it will work with that. Also
here in Tucson it costs' $15.95 a gallon and that's pretty cheap.  RJ

Offline Damian_Sheehy

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2012, 07:06:23 PM »
Convenience.

You can pick up a can at my place  :!



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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2012, 07:24:05 PM »
Is sig dope fuel proff?

Charles
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Offline EddyR

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2012, 07:45:27 PM »
Dupli Color  lacquer thinner,premium. Can says it may cause brain damage ~^ Cost $17 gallon At some Auto Zone stores
Ed
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Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2012, 07:54:18 PM »
Is sig dope fuel proff?

    Sort of. It will handle exhaust OK but raw fuel for any length of time will leave spots.

    Brett

Offline Avaiojet

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2012, 08:08:33 PM »
    Sort of. It will handle exhaust OK but raw fuel for any length of time will leave spots. Brett

Brett,

Well, I guess that means automotive clear.

Aerogloss used to make some great paint.

Charles
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Offline billbyles

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2012, 11:17:47 PM »

Bill,
I just have to ask this question and your the man to give me the answer. I just ordered Sig products and while I don't use much nitrate dope I still have some. They sell only one thinner and I have used it for years to thin both of their dopes. I have even used it to thin Brodak dope.. So what makes their thinner compatable with both types of dope and none of the others seem to be able to accomplish this feat. Mind you if I could find a cheap substitute I'd use it but at this point in my life I really don't have time to experiment.


Dennis
d

Hi Dennis,

Actually, any butyrate thinner will thin both butyrate & nitrate dope.  Sig figured out long ago that only one thinner is needed for both nitrate & butyrate dope.  I think that where the confusion comes in is the fact that the old lacquer thinners such as DuPont 3602S (slow) & 3608S (medium) are similar enough to butyrate thinner that they will work for our model airplane applications because we are finishing a relatively small area compared to a full-scale airplane.  Butyrate thinner has components in it that aid the flow-out of the dope, improve the chemical "bite" into the substrate over which it is being applied, & keep it more flexible than a lacquer finish.  Lacquer thinner dries much faster than butyrate thinner so on a large area it is more difficult to keep it wet long enough to get the flow-out that gives the glossy finish.  On an automobile a lacquer finish is always sanded & buffed to a gloss finish, & on a metal surface flexibility is not an issue; however, if you look at an old lacquer finish on a car you will likely see cracks in the lacquer paint caused by the continual drying of the lacquer with the corresponding leaching out of the small amount of plasticizers in the lacquer material.  That, & the shrinkage of the lacquer cause the cracking of the finish.

I like a lacquer finish on cars that were originally finished with it because it "looks right" for the period, and it is easy to buff out & polish for a high-gloss finish that looks great at the Hot August Nights cruise at Reno, Nevada.  The finish just will not hold up over the years unless the car lives in a garage & is babied.
Bill Byles
AMA 20913
So. Cal.

steven yampolsky

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2012, 06:48:55 AM »
Just go to any Auto Zone and get a gallon of their
thinner. It is Rustoleum lacquer thinner high solvency. They make two kinds so get
the one I named.
Dupli Color  lacquer thinner,premium. Can says it may cause brain damage ~^ Cost $17 gallon At some Auto Zone stores

Now THAT'S the kind of information I can use! I've got an Auto Zone 2 miles from my house! Thank you gentlemen!

Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2012, 07:52:03 AM »
Convenience.

If a manufacturer packages acetone or mineral spirits with a fancy label, you might as well find & buy the generic.  Thart seems to be the question here.

I don't use nitrate, but the "Certified thinner" sold at airport suppliers is less expensive alternate to "name brand" CAB dope thinner.

The gripping solvent sold by Golfsmith at a premuim price is mineral spirits in a fancy can.
Paul Smith

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2012, 09:24:37 AM »
Just for the record,
the thinner packaged and sold for use with lacquer is much much more than just acetone or mineral spirits. Thinner has several components, each put there to accomplish a specific purpose in the application of the product.
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Offline billbyles

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2012, 09:42:56 AM »
If a manufacturer packages acetone or mineral spirits with a fancy label, you might as well find & buy the generic.  Thart seems to be the question here.

I don't use nitrate, but the "Certified thinner" sold at airport suppliers is less expensive alternate to "name brand" CAB dope thinner.

The gripping solvent sold by Golfsmith at a premuim price is mineral spirits in a fancy can.

Actually, Paul..."Certified" brand dope products have been around full-scale airplane supply dealers since the fifties and *is* a name brand product.  Also, Certified products prices have risen to be equivalent to Randolph dope products so there is little to no savings to be gained by that route.

Certified products are excellent in quality and I have no problem using them on full-scale or model airplanes and frequently use them interchangeably with Randolph products.  Just as a matter of interest I restored a 1939 Waco UPF-7 using Sig dope.  When you buy 55 gallons of Sig dope at a time the prices are pretty equivalent to the price of Randolph or Certified.  The products are interchangeable as long as they are butyrate to butyrate, etc.

I have found, regarding butyrate thinners, that Certified thinner is the fastest drying, Randolph is the next fastest drying, & Sig is the slowest drying.  I use these differences by mixing the thinners to improve the drying speed when I don't really need retarder yet.  Here in So. Cal. we rarely have days when retarder is needed, but I do use it on occasion.

I have also found that Sig butyrate dope is the most fuel resistant of the butyrates, and I always use Sig Light-Kote clear for the topcoat finish on my models because I like a dope finish.  For colors I use either Randolph or Sig butyrate; most often Randolph just because they have a real rainbow of colors available.

"If a manufacturer packages acetone or mineral spirits with a fancy label, you might as well find & buy the generic.  Thart seems to be the question here."

First of all I don't think that is the question here.  For instance, fingernail polish remover is primarily acetone with some oils added, but you would hardly use that for thinning dope or anything else to do with painting.  I agree that if it is certain that the generic product is exactly the same as the more expensive brand then I agree "buy the generic."  However, just because the cheap product smells *pretty much* like the real thing doesn't mean that it is exactly like the real thing or will work exactly like the real thing.

I understand the desire of modelers to save $ on products, and there are some modelers who have tried other products & know they will work (as Whitely stated above, & he does know what he is doing), but be careful before you try some of these alternative products on the model in which you have just put 200 or 300 hours into building.  I also understand the convenience factor for some, and while I can drive for 15 minutes to Aircraft Spruce to pick up the dope products I need it is not quite so convenient for many others.  However, Aircraft Spruce does ship same day so you won't have to wait long for whatever it is you need.  Other full-scale suppliers such as Wicks aircraft also will ship quickly.

Bill Byles
AMA 20913
So. Cal.

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2012, 12:30:01 PM »
I have an industrial paint supply nearby, so I buy gallons of PPG Acrylic lacquer thinner.  It works with Brodak paints and it has worked every time.  It runs about $40/gallon, which is easily half the price of Brodak thinner.

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Offline Larry Fernandez

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2012, 02:16:05 PM »
I got this from Larry Fernandez and if any of you have seen his planes they
are front row quality!  Just go to any Auto Zone and get a gallon of their
thinner. It is Rustoleum lacquer thinner high solvency. They make two kinds so get
the one I named. The other one is no good and won't even clean a spray gun.
Be sure it says high solvency on the can. I use strictly Sig dope and Certified from
Aircraft Spruce both nitrate and butyrate and this thinner will cut both, no
problems. I do not use Brodak so don't know if it will work with that. Also
here in Tucson it costs' $15.95 a gallon and that's pretty cheap.  RJ

Correction Bob, the thinner I have been using is the Duplicolor high VOC lacquer thinner. The late great Jim Tichy was using KleanStrip high VOC lacquer thinner from Home Depot / Lowes. And I would put his finishes up against anybodies.


Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

Offline W.D. Roland

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2012, 02:22:49 PM »
Hardware, Automotive Lacquer thinner comes in Fast, Medium, Slow and is marked on the can.
Fast is every where and is for cleaning and blushes real well if that's what you want.

Slow is good stuff in most brands. Flows good and so on. Not in stock is the usual situation so I buy when I see it.
Last gallon came from WallyWorld.

Medium might be useful in cold conditions.

Brodak is not fuel proof or even slightly resistant, washes away like a Pastel.
Apparently the metal can is fuel proof as it is marked so.
Good way to mess up good work.

Sig seems almost as good as AeroGloss(old stuff) in fuel resistance.
I use SIG thinner with Sig on important stuff, just to be safe.
David Roland
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Offline billbyles

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Re: Nitrate thinner: is there a HD or Lowes product I can use
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2012, 07:16:20 PM »
I have an industrial paint supply nearby, so I buy gallons of PPG Acrylic lacquer thinner.  It works with Brodak paints and it has worked every time.  It runs about $40/gallon, which is easily half the price of Brodak thinner.

Floyd

Floyd,

Randolph butyrate thinner is $25.40 per gallon plus a nominal shipping fee from Aircraft Spruce, so why pay $40.00/gallon for PPG when you can get the correct thinner for quite a bit less???
Bill Byles
AMA 20913
So. Cal.


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