New judges aid?

[pmackenzie]

I wonder if this could be adapted to C/L stunt?



 I might get a chance to try this system out from both sides.
They will use this at our F3P (indoor pattern) contest next weekend, and I often end up having to judge some of the other classes.

One thing I don't like is that it announces every time the score is changed, so you would know what the other judges are doing. Easy enough to turn the volume right down I hope.
(In F3P you fly standing just in front of the judges, so they must have to disable that feature otherwise the pilot would hear it as well)

Having it linked to the scoring software must make that whole task a lot easier/faster.

Pat MacKenzie

[Howard Rush]

We saw a presentation on it at the Nats.  Pretty cool, but it would need some changes, and it would need to interface with a tabulation system. We decided to test it at a small contest. I am delinquent in adapting it to my not-too-mature local contest program, and nobody wants even to use my tabulation program, let alone the whole deal with automated score entry.

[CircuitFlyer]

A much simpler system could also be created using cloud based Google Docs.  Using tablets or smart phones through a wifi hotspot if needed.  The judges fill out a Google Form to enter the scores directly to a linked Google Sheet.  The competitors would be able to view the scores in real time as they are posted.  No dedicated hardware or sophisticated programming required.

[Igor Burger]

Yes, similar we used in Hradec Kralove World cup. Advantage is that you go from circle with model in one hand and your calculated sheet in the other, but that panic if they switch off power .... :-P

And if you choose some of them, be sure you have that wireless ... those with wires are OK for F3A, but not for C/L where judges must run around :- )))

So it needs to solve high power WiFi (>40m distance) batteries which will work for days etc. So far I did not get why they do not use android devices, it will be certainly cheaper, but maybe I missed something :-P

[Steve Helmick]

We saw a presentation on it at the Nats.  Pretty cool, but it would need some changes, and it would need to interface with a tabulation system. We decided to test it at a small contest. I am delinquent in adapting it to my not-too-mature local contest program, and nobody wants even to use my tabulation program, let alone the whole deal with automated score entry.

The ideal road-test would be to use it at a Judging Clinic and/or Trimming Clinic. If it doesn't work, no harm, no foul. But the real deal is how much does that gizmo cost, and who's going to buy them? Who is going to loan one to somebody else to use?

The biggest problems with using Howard's tabulation program for local contests is waiting to get it all set up, and for score sheets to be printed out. If we could get Howard there at 7am, all the problems would be solved.  And yes, getting contestants to sign up, get their planes weighed and pictures taken is very much like herding cats!  Steve 

[pmackenzie]

I will definitely post about what I see next weekend, and ask about costs as well.

One big plus for F3P is that you don't have to look down to write down a number.
Unlike the two laps/~9 seconds between maneuvers in F2B there is essentially no dead time in an F3P sequence.

[Steve Helmick]

Just spent a half hour trying to find this device via Google and on Logitech's website, trying to get an idea of how much dinero it would take. Logitech's stuff can be pretty reasonable, or pretty expensive, depending on market, competition, etc. Or that's my take on it. But I didn't find anything that shows this device for sale anyplace.

Is F3P popular enough to make this a viable product, or is it because somebody in upper management at Logitech flies F3P? I suppose somebody in the USA has heard of F3P, but not me.

I fear that event proliferation is the devil's work. I recently sent SCATen an email and asked what the plan was once F1 events (FAI Free Flight) reached F1Z. They are already at F1S, last I heard, but may be farther down the pike than that by now. Say only 2% of the guys that fly F1A, B, C, or D, stop doing that and take up one of the next new events? How long does it take F1A, B, C, or D to stop drawing a meaningful entry? Depends on the location, of course, but I'd hope they'd consider what's best for all locations, and not just Europe. That just doesn't seem to be the case...  Steve 

[pmackenzie]

They originally made the program for F3A/outdoor pattern, which is a lot more popular than F3P/indoor pattern.

The Logitech part is an off-the shelf product to turn the ipad into a  game controller.
https://www.amazon.ca/Logitech-PowerShell-Controller-Battery-Generation/dp/B00FHREO8K

[Brett Buck]

Interesting idea and now (unlike all the people ragging on me for telling them it didn't exist, 15 years ago) seemingly practical. I wonder where or if the data is backed up, recorded?

   There are some interesting things being used. Chip Hyde suggested the use of the "instant score" display, where apparently, in Pattern, they show each judge's score for each maneuver immediately on a big display. To me, that just sounded like a way to paint a target on their back (and apparently the goal was indeed "social engineering") but they use them. I think there was a demo after this year's nats.

   Paper and a pen are pretty cheap and reliable, too.

   Brett

[Steve Helmick]

"Paper and a pen are pretty cheap and reliable, too."

Yep. Backup systems are a short drive away, if not in a nearby pocket. I always carry a spare pen in mine, just in case. I'm not sure the other judges do this, but they should. There is still the problem of wet score sheets, but an 9" x 12" sheet of heavy plastic 'drop cloth' works ok. It would be really nice to have umbrella girls, like the motorcycle GP road racer folks have. I'd look forward to each contest with even more enthusiasm. Better than some electronic score sheet thingy.  Steve

[peabody]

Dave Cook envisioned using a PDA on a network to provide instant scoring.....he knew of the pushback, but felt that it would have been a worthwhile advance.

Have fun!