My new plane hits the ground! Can it be repaired?

[Jim Treace]

OK, I am really getting frustrated. This is becoming too common of an occurrence. I build, then I crash. Not sure I want to build anymore, but anyway, suggestions...please. Can this one be repaired?? Ringmaster Imperial, finished all dope, polyspan, dyed dope on open bays. Really was flying nice. Engine McCoy .40 Redhead. It was a pretty day to fly, but I don't want to tell what happened. Outboard wing at center sheeting, weight box is still somewhere in the field, flap, rudder and possibly crack in engine mount and nose. Fuselage is split length wise making elevators loose.
This has really put me in a funk!!! It is a Walter Umland kit and he liked my model so much he put it on his web page. I had 5 months build in this one.
Jim

[John Stiles]

I had an Imperial once....centrifugal force was too much for the bell-crank tower; it broke out and the rest is history....but it looked pretty much like yours I'm gonna stick with the S1 and the S1A....and sportsterized versions there-of!

[Alan Hahn]

Jim,
I haven't been following your "saga", but from someone who practices the "good die young" theory of modeling, if you are just getting into CL, I would really recommend getting a plane like the Ukie, or any plane where you haven't invested a lot of your flying time---and that repairs easily. I am not sure, but for some reason, the best flying weather always follows a crash.

At first, it is easy to crash--engine run, wind gust, grass snag on the leadout on takeoff--you name it I've been there. Even learning the pattern takes its toll  . It is best to go though the learning experience with a plane that you haven't invested your heart and soul into. Learning with a Ukie allows you to get a good engine dialed in, get use to the pattern, and with 5 minute epoxy, a 1 day turn-around with repair.

Then when you bring up your perfect offering, the stunt gods are already satisfied with all the previous sacrifices!

That isn't to say that you won't be stricken again! The good still tend to die young!

[Bill Morell]

Jim, you can keep it to yourself as to what happened but there is always a chance that someone on here can tell you how to maybe keep it from happening again. As far as rebuilding it goes I would say yes. Especially if you picked every piece you could find. I have seen some videos by Windy where he rebuilt some really shattered planes (worse then yours) and had them flying again.

[James C. Johnson]

Jim ... it can be fixed.. the problem I have is recreating something I have already created..

I have several wrecks waiting to be repaired..

You are an excellent builder.. what you need is a plane you can "trash".. when I was young it was .049 sized planes, us boys all got good on them ... and guess what? They were harder to fly than the big ones..


planes from 1970


When I came back to control line flying I build a single purpose plane.. one that would teach me the pattern yet was forgiving. I used an FP 25 and covered it with plastic film... cheap and quick, it was in Stunt News.. Pat Johnston's Stunt Trainer. when I was done with it I gave it to Steve Helmick.. he is now flying stunt.. I had never seen a triangle let alone tried one.. or square 8s.. I can do them now but not well...  but they "pass"..

Hang in there and never quit...

Jim

[RC Storick]

OK, I am really getting frustrated. This is becoming too common of an occurrence. I build, then I crash. Not sure I want to build anymore, but anyway, suggestions...please. Can this one be repaired?? Ringmaster Imperial, finished all dope, polyspan, dyed dope on open bays. Really was flying nice. Engine McCoy .40 Redhead. It was a pretty day to fly, but I don't want to tell what happened. Outboard wing at center sheeting, weight box is still somewhere in the field, flap, rudder and possibly crack in engine mount and nose. Fuselage is split length wise making elevators loose.
This has really put me in a funk!!! It is a Walter Umland kit and he liked my model so much he put it on his web page. I had 5 months build in this one.
Jim

What a pretty plane! Fix or build another either way don't stop.

[jim gilmore]

I agree that you shouldn't stop building.Pick a simply design that can be build fairly fast and will teah you to fly everything. And fly that untill you can lear to do everything you want. I'm building profiles for that reason myself.

[Paul Taylor]

Jim,
Glad to see you are getting out. By the looks of the brown grass you are up north?
Yes as someone said above, anything can be repaired. Someone said put it in a bag and set it aside until the "funk" goes away.
You are a very good builder.
Here is my goal this year. Maybe this will give you some food for thought.

I got a foam wing and built two profile fuslages for it. My goal it to pound the crap out of them this summer to learn the pattern. Then next year move on to a Vector.
Someone said if you are going to fly stunt, you will rekit a few planes. It is always a bad thing when we crash, but it happens. Part of it. I hate crashing as much as the next guy. But don't give up.

PS- We plan on flying 4/26 and we will get together in May as well. Hope you can make it up in May.

Paul

[Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach]

OK...your question is, can it be rebuilt.  Short answer...yes.  And by the look of it ( what I can see in the pictures anyway), it should be a fairly easy fix.  I do agree with those that said put it away for a week or so and work on something else till the funk goes away.  Makes it easier to work on it.  Your building skills look very good, so just take your time and work slowly and methodically.  Put things back together, checking everything so you don't miss a cracked rib or something.  Use the original parts as much as possible and cut new ones when old ones can't be fixed.

I do recommend building a good old profile of something and learn on that.  Makes the rebuilding MUCH easier! LOL  I learned on a Midwest AD1 Skyraider.  Man that plane came home broke every night for weeks!  And I am not kidding in the least!  I had no one to show me anything, so my learning curve was painful to say the least.  I still remember that one special day when I came home with a whole airplane....even my wife noticed and commented.  I am sure she felt I wasn't having fun unless I broke it! LOL  The fact is....that was a tough plane and was easy to repair.  It was large enough to really feel out there.  I loved that plane.  As a matter of fact I built another one useing a Twister wing.

Good luck and keep those spirits up.  It always gets better.  Of course then you crash again, but hey....thats part of the fun!

[Randy Powell]

This is the perfect place for an ARF. Pick up a Brodak P-40 and fly the heck out of it while you are either rebuilding this very cool plane or building another.

[Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach]

Absolutely what Randy said.  I have a Brodak P-40 and it is one sweet flying, fun airplane.

[Jim Treace]

Thanks guys for all the comments. Yesterday I was frustrated and needed some place to vent. I have a nice fleet of 8 models and last two months I put two (complete rebuild of ARF Tutor and now the RM Imperial), in the ground. I have practice planes(RM S-1, Flightstreak, ARC Cardinal, etc), and fly the heck out of them, but last couple of times using the nicer fleet, on pretty days and all seems to be going so nice, I get a little "frisky" and push the envelope. Does this happen to anyone else?
I was in a big funk yesterday but, I am going to fly today, but with the practice fleet. I will repair the Imperial. It was so nice and light, fully loaded came in at 42 oz.(well below Walter's prototype), but It needed some tail weight anyway!
(Brodak P-40 ARF sounds pretty good at this point, too. I have a Brodak Spitfire kit, wing completed on the bench, may slow down this build and do an ARF?? I do like building, though!)
Jim

[Paul Taylor]

Hey Jim,
Did not know know you were up to 8 planes! WOW. You need to get brother John on the handle.
I figured you were spending all your time fishing this time of the year.  Glad to see you are spending more time on the handle.

Hope you can come up soon for a visit.

Paul

[Paul Smith]

If you're in a hurry to fix it, get some sod and use a roller.

If you have a month or so, grass seed and fertilizer will get it done.

[rustler]

Jim - keep going. I learnt to "stunt" (i.e. basic) on a Mercury Junior Monitor kit model. 1/4 or 3/8 x 1/8 spars set vertically sort of thing, tissue covered. Week after week I took it home with the wing broken off. Lapped a splint each side of the break, recover, and take it out next week. Same thing. Eventually all those splints resulted in a spar about 1" wide! But what a great feeling the first time I took it home in one piece. After that it just got easier and easier.

[John Cralley]

Jim,

Glad to hear you plan to rebuild!! The advice about an easy to rebuild profile is good. Below are a couple of shots of my Ringmaster, that I flew yesterday, which has at least 8 rebuilds by my count. It keeps gaining weight as it ages but so do I!!!

[Jim Treace]

John:
Yes, I know how it goes. "You build it and if you fly it enough, it will crash!" This I have learned many a time. Some worst than others. This Tutor crash bummed me out, but the support and advice from many on this Forum helped me get it back in shape. So, I will still stay at it. Still a sad sight to go into the shop and see the RM Imperial spread out in pieces. At least once cleaned up, they are still "pretty" pieces!
Jim 

[Randy Ryan]

Thanks guys for all the comments. Yesterday I was frustrated and needed some place to vent. I have a nice fleet of 8 models and last two months I put two (complete rebuild of ARF Tutor and now the RM Imperial), in the ground. I have practice planes(RM S-1, Flightstreak, ARC Cardinal, etc), and fly the heck out of them, but last couple of times using the nicer fleet, on pretty days and all seems to be going so nice, I get a little "frisky" and push the envelope. Does this happen to anyone else?
I was in a big funk yesterday but, I am going to fly today, but with the practice fleet. I will repair the Imperial. It was so nice and light, fully loaded came in at 42 oz.(well below Walter's prototype), but It needed some tail weight anyway!
(Brodak P-40 ARF sounds pretty good at this point, too. I have a Brodak Spitfire kit, wing completed on the bench, may slow down this build and do an ARF?? I do like building, though!)
Jim

Jim,

What you said here made me stop and think, are you learning the pattern or just "hot-dogging" when you get "frisky? One thing I think everyone here can attest to is that flying these models without busting them up requires some bit of discipline. If you're just scribimg lines in the sky without some planning of your maneuvers, you will keep busting them up. Changing your mind mid-maneuver will also lead to disaster. I'm not sure what your intentions are, but I would say at least if you are not flying the pattern, at least plan what you intend to do in a flight and stick to it.

[Dennis Moritz]

As a friend says,"that's really not too bad." I've seen him say this over some bad looking wrecks. Sometime heavy duty stunt war wagons representing years (no exaggeration) of work. Guess what. They've all gone back together. Flying well. A few reassembled birds compete at the highest levels of Stunt.

[Jim Treace]

Jim,

What you said here made me stop and think, are you learning the pattern or just "hot-dogging" when you get "frisky? One thing I think everyone here can attest to is that flying these models without busting them up requires some bit of discipline. If you're just scribimg lines in the sky without some planning of your maneuvers, you will keep busting them up. Changing your mind mid-maneuver will also lead to disaster. I'm not sure what your intentions are, but I would say at least if you are not flying the pattern, at least plan what you intend to do in a flight and stick to it.

Randy:
I don't "hot-dog" at anything! I spend a lot of time studying, planning, designing and practice with my sports (I do other sports as well as CL). I take photo copies with me to my field of the pattern/s that I want to perform and review before I fill the tank. When I said "frisky", I meant that I believed that I had reached a point to work into preforming a better maneuver..as you may know sometimes you may just push that envelope a bit too soon. I was trying to open up my my outside loops from a level entry. Just hit it a bit too low. I'll keep working on it, but I don't hot dog and busting up a plane now and then, in my opinion does not necessarily indicate a lack of discipline.
Jim

[RC Storick]

Jim we all have crashed in our quest to do better. We will all crash again. Just keep at it and the crashes will come with less frequency. Think of it this way. My last crash was in 07 in Tulsa OK. I hauled the plane home and had 400 miles to think about it. I thought about it so hard its still under the bench.

[Randy Ryan]

Randy:
I don't "hot-dog" at anything! I spend a lot of time studying, planning, designing and practice with my sports (I do other sports as well as CL). I take photo copies with me to my field of the pattern/s that I want to perform and review before I fill the tank. When I said "frisky", I meant that I believed that I had reached a point to work into preforming a better maneuver..as you may know sometimes you may just push that envelope a bit too soon. I was trying to open up my my outside loops from a level entry. Just hit it a bit too low. I'll keep working on it, but I don't hot dog and busting up a plane now and then, in my opinion does not necessarily indicate a lack of discipline.
Jim

Jim,

I certainly didn't mean to imply anything negative about you personally. Not knowing your experience level I was just trying to suggest a possible cause. Many new flyers like to "free-style" not realizing they're setting themselves up for disaster. Probably the most damgerous is changing your mind in the middle of a maneuver, usually from the downward portion back to level flight. Allot of guys have decided at the last moment to go upright instead of inverted at the last moment, then its too late. I don't throw stones Jim, I just try to help.

[Phil Coopy]

It must be the weekend for it....I brought my Vector home in a bag Saturday.  Pilot error.

Phil

[Larry Cunningham]

Jim,

Crashes are a fact of life. And it is particularly disheartening when you build a
gorgeous airplane and then have it destroyed so quickly.

Yes, it can be fixed. The broken outboard wing is a common damage, and I have
fixed several with it, including inserting additional spars/segments near the root.
Just be very patient.

And Randy Powell's suggestion is a fine idea. Pick up one of the better flying ARC/ARFs
(the Cardinal profile is a superb flyer), fly the dickens out of it, crash and repair/replace
as needed, without the emotional attachment. It will make you a better flier as well, since
you won't fear the ground as much, and will learn to trust your model. Again, because the
trauma of losing a beautiful ship you worked so hard to build is removed.

Back to your Ringy - since (I believe) the Imperial uses the identical wing to the standard,
you might consider just building another wing, carefully cut out the old one, install and refinish
the new one. This will let you avoid any special spar replacement problems.

Good luck!

L.

"I must tell you that the supply of words on the world market is plentiful, but the
 demand is falling." -Lech Walesa

[Larry Cunningham]

Was it Peabody quoted about using silk to cover wings, since it provides
its own convenient carrying bag after a crash?

That Peabody! ;->

L.

"It was kind of a neat idea. We don't know what we are going to hear, except I don't
 think we are going to hear Elvis." -Edward Weiler, head of NASA's space science
 division, on the microphone included in the Mars Polar Lander spacecraft, 1999

[John Miller]

Good suggestion Larry, but the Imperial uses a different wing, same basic shape, but much larger.

But, I like your idea of using the same basic shapes in a profile.

Since he has the plans from Walter's kit, how about having one of the foam wing guys cut him a new wing, use the so called kept foam technique to finish the wing.

He could then either mount the new wing in the original fuselage, or into a profile version to use getting used to the design.

[Jim Treace]

Jim,

I certainly didn't mean to imply anything negative about you personally. Not knowing your experience level I was just trying to suggest a possible cause. Many new flyers like to "free-style" not realizing they're setting themselves up for disaster. Probably the most damgerous is changing your mind in the middle of a maneuver, usually from the downward portion back to level flight. Allot of guys have decided at the last moment to go upright instead of inverted at the last moment, then its too late. I don't throw stones Jim, I just try to help.

Randy:
I do understand. I was already a bit stressed and barked off my response. Anyway, I appreciate all information and nothing wrong with re-freshers. You made good points.

I am going to rebuild the plane. Already have the engine cleaned and bench runs OK. The wing break I believe will reattach OK. Mostly I have problems with color matching, since wing was covered in polyspan and colored with Higgins dyed dope. I will use silkspan for repair of open bays. That can blend in nicely with the polyspan and won't even see the lap, but I guess that it will take the dyed dope differently. We will see. More on it later.
Jim