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Author Topic: Midway  (Read 1519 times)

Offline Dave_Trible

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Midway
« on: November 08, 2019, 02:19:28 PM »
Yeah I know way off subject but I just got back from the opening day showing of the new re-make movie of 'Midway'.  The original has long been my favorite movie and I've lost track of how many times I've seen it.  I went to the opening day of the original movie all those many years ago.  This new one is just AWESOME!  I was gripping the seat for many of the combat scenes and I think the Dauntless became my new favorite airplane.  Go see it!

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Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Midway
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2019, 04:21:07 PM »
The original "Midway", done around 1976 or so, was terrible.  Footage stolen from Tora, Tora, Tora, ridiculous love interest sub-plot, and what looked to be Korean War footage of a jet crash landing on a carrier.

Of course, the ability to create scenes from modern computers did not exist then but I still can't forgive Hollywood for such a disappointing movie.  Maybe the current version is better.

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Re: Midway
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2019, 04:35:39 PM »
Just seen it today also. Great movie.

Offline louie klein

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Re: Midway
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2019, 06:28:16 PM »
If yous ever get the chance go visit the USS YORKTOWN. Great exhibit of history.----Louie

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Midway
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2019, 06:32:06 PM »
The original "Midway", done around 1976 or so, was terrible.  Footage stolen from Tora, Tora, Tora, ridiculous love interest sub-plot, and what looked to be Korean War footage of a jet crash landing on a carrier.

Of course, the ability to create scenes from modern computers did not exist then but I still can't forgive Hollywood for such a disappointing movie.  Maybe the current version is better.
Have to side with Dave on this one.  I loved the original Midway and watch it whenever it is on TV.  Luckly for me, my father was in Navy pilot training (for the Dauntless) when they pulled half his class into Radar.  So instead of the South Pacific, he got a mine sweeper at Normandy.

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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Midway
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2019, 08:32:35 PM »
   I hope to see it this weekend, but so far have only seen bad reviews for things such as dialog and such. Not much comment about the CGI, but one critic said if you didn't like "Pearl Harbor" with Ben Aflec, you won't like Midway. The comments about dialog were that it seemed out of place for the time period and the story line didn't do much service to our veterans of the campaign. I'll reserve my opinion until I get to see it.
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Offline Ty Marcucci

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Re: Midway
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2019, 09:29:49 PM »
Having spent 20 years in the US Navy, and 4 on an Essex class carrier and with Naval History one of my hobbies,  ( I have over 117 books on the Navy) I can say without doubt, Hokiewood NEVER gets it right. Read the books and the one by the Japanese version. Big eye opener. Fly Navy. H^^
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Midway
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2019, 10:57:39 PM »
 I plan to go check it out next week when it opens at the local theater, can't not. I've already watched all the trailers though and really hate that it's ALL CG. It's WAAAAY overdone, way-way-way too many aircraft and things happening condensed into the action scenes, ridiculously unrealistic. It appears to be super over-dramatized too. Sadly, I suppose that's what it takes to hold any level of interest with the majority these days, (like the event itself shouldn't be enough?) I am very happy though that they've produced a new movie on the subject, that's a good thing.
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Offline Jim Svitko

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Re: Midway
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2019, 05:20:08 AM »
Have to side with Dave on this one.  I loved the original Midway and watch it whenever it is on TV.  Luckly for me, my father was in Navy pilot training (for the Dauntless) when they pulled half his class into Radar.  So instead of the South Pacific, he got a mine sweeper at Normandy.

Ken

Well, Ken, we have a difference of opinion on this.  As far as the original Midway movie is concerned, I wondered why distinguished actors such as Charlton Heston and Henry Fonda would have anything to do with such a piece of cinematic crap.  I saw this movie while in my last year in the Air Force.  One of the guys in my outfit went with me to see it and he also agreed that it was a turkey.  Then again, I have had people tell me that Casablanca and the Maltese Falcon (Humphrey Bogart classics) were not very good but I think both were excellent.

I also agree that with all this computer generated action nonsense, a movie today is more like watching a video game.  Totally unrealistic but I guess younger moviegoers are really into that these days.  We older guys, not so much.

I guess this is why I rarely go to movies anymore.  If not filled with the usual explosions, car chases, and other mindless drivel, the dialog (script), and acting are far below the standards of years ago.  I would rather watch an old black and white (film noir) movie than pay to see what is offered today.


Offline scott v.

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Re: Midway
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2019, 07:40:25 AM »
Mr. Marcucci-  Do you have some titles that would be recommended reading?

Thanks, Scott


Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Midway
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2019, 10:18:20 AM »
Yes it’s got mostly computer generated flight stuff but very good stuff.   There aren’t but one or two airworthy copies of SBDs, TBDs, Nakajimas in the world so it has to be.   Next to nothing left from the early Pacific era.  For the ‘Battle of Britain’ movie there were a pretty good number of Spitfires and Spanish-built Heinkels to be found to make real flight scenes but I doubt so anymore.  This movie sticks to history pretty well without any fictional stories or characters.   There are a few ‘modern’ four letter words.  Younger people seem to think they invented everything... including this language- they didn’t.  :-)).

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Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Midway
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2019, 10:31:17 AM »
I only saw the "trailers" for the movie "Midway".  I decided to pass on this version.  They showed the Lockheed P-38 fighting off the Japanese.  There were NO P-38s on Midway.  All planes were carrier-based, not P-38.

During WWII, my mom worked on the SBD dive bombers at the Long Beach plant.  I even got to visit the plant during "family day".   Mom worked at the bench with files and grinder, working on small control parts for the SBD.  Not as exciting as final assembly, but I did watch the assembly line.
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Online john e. holliday

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Re: Midway
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2019, 10:35:50 AM »
Hollywood and the so called people in charge have never done and accurate version of any type of history.  I guess that is why I only go to the movies for intertainment and not a history lesson.  I still remember the series that used to be on early TV(50's) about the war with actual forage from some of the campaigns.  Try reading a book on a subject and then go watch Hollywoods version.  Case in point is Frankenstein, Alice in Wonderland as well as the Harry Potter stories. D>K
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Midway
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2019, 10:58:50 AM »
Just wanted to add that all the aircraft in the movie were accurate ( I saw no P-38).  I did wonder about one- B 26s.  I looked it up and yes they were there.  Must have been Army Air Corps sent to the island just before the battle.  These seemed to be why Nagumo originally dismissed the idea there were any US carriers in the area.  These were all land based.

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Offline Ty Marcucci

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Re: Midway
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2019, 02:34:55 PM »
The Navy and USMC fighters were the F4F-3 Wildcat and the F2A  Buffalo and the first versions of the TBF Avenger. Later Eastern Aircraft, a division of GM, produced the TBM and the FM2 (F4F-4).  The USAAC (then) had B-17's, B26 Marauders.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 03:53:10 PM by Ty Marcucci »
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Offline Ty Marcucci

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Re: Midway
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2019, 03:15:57 PM »
Mr. Marcucci-  Do you have some titles that would be recommended reading?

Thanks, Scott
Hi Scott. Here are six that I could find.  Too many books.  1. Never Call Me A Hero/Jack "Dusty" Kleiss @ Midway.   2. Pacific Payback/Stephen L. Moore    3. Shattered Sword/Jonathan Parshall & Anthony Tully-The battle as seen by the Japanese.  Best book by far on this epic battle.   4. Joe Rocheford's War/Elliot Carlson (Joe led the team the "broke" most of JN 25B, the IJN code book.   5.Miracle At Midway/Gordon W. Prange  6. Midway/Mitsuo Fuchida & Masatake Okumiya.  Fuchido has changed his story so many time no one in Japan believes him. So read with a grain of salt.
I can only assume most of these are available through  Amazon.  I got most of them from Naval Institute Press. D>K
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Offline Ty Marcucci

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Re: Midway
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2019, 03:24:34 PM »
The one thing many do not realize, is that the Battle of the Coral Sea set the Japanese up for defeat at Midway. First we sunk a light carrier and damaged one so bad, it had to go all the way back to Japan for six months of repairs. The third carrier had her air group so shot up it too had to go back to Japan for a new air group and had to train it. The IJN Navy did not cross deck air groups like we did and still do.  I forget the name of the "bird farm" but could very well have taken on the aircraft from the CVL sunk and the damaged sister ship. But the Japanese made each air group a part of the ship, where as  ours were "guests" and could serve on  any carrier.

Thus only four CV's  were at Midway, VS 6 or 7, in which case we would have lost big time. It PAYS to be versatile in war... H^^
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Offline Dwayne Donnelly

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Re: Midway
« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2019, 05:46:54 PM »
The one thing many do not realize, is that the Battle of the Coral Sea set the Japanese up for defeat at Midway. First we sunk a light carrier and damaged one so bad, it had to go all the way back to Japan for six months of repairs. The third carrier had her air group so shot up it too had to go back to Japan for a new air group and had to train it. The IJN Navy did not cross deck air groups like we did and still do.  I forget the name of the "bird farm" but could very well have taken on the aircraft from the CVL sunk and the damaged sister ship. But the Japanese made each air group a part of the ship, where as  ours were "guests" and could serve on  any carrier.

Thus only four CV's  were at Midway, VS 6 or 7, in which case we would have lost big time. It PAYS to be versatile in war... H^^

Cool piece of history I didn't know, also I always  wonder why they didn't  build more advanced fighters to replace the Zero
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Midway
« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2019, 06:19:14 PM »
Actually they did build a number of more advanced fighters-some so hot the US brought back to the states to study after the war.  The problem was they ran out of pilots to fly them.  They wasted most of the younger trainees on Kamikaze.  The Japanese developed many pretty descent airplanes many have never heard much about.  Not sure why other than maybe politics of the day.  Development of German aircraft is much more widely known.  The Japanese had a few jets in the final months that were not clones but pretty similar to the ME 262.  If they had gotten an earlier start and not lost so many pilots they would have given the B29s a real bad time.  They did have a few piston engine fighters that could outrun the P51 escorts.  Those were the ones that got brought back here. 

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Offline Paul Smith

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Re: Midway
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2019, 07:21:56 PM »
Cool piece of history I didn't know, also I always  wonder why they didn't  build more advanced fighters to replace the Zero

Unlike other nations that were dragged into WWII, Japan planned for war in 1926 and started stockpiling weapons then.  They had a mountain of weapons when they opened fire on December 7th, 1941, but most of it was old school.

The USA got a late start, but built newer state-of-the-art war machines. 
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Midway
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2019, 08:23:10 PM »
Actually they did build a number of more advanced fighters-some so hot the US brought back to the states to study after the war.  The problem was they ran out of pilots to fly them.  They wasted most of the younger trainees on Kamikaze.  The Japanese developed many pretty descent airplanes many have never heard much about.  Not sure why other than maybe politics of the day.  Development of German aircraft is much more widely known.  The Japanese had a few jets in the final months that were not clones but pretty similar to the ME 262.  If they had gotten an earlier start and not lost so many pilots they would have given the B29s a real bad time.  They did have a few piston engine fighters that could outrun the P51 escorts.  Those were the ones that got brought back here. 

Dave

     The Kawasaki Tony or Hein was one that could reach the B-29s at altitude and were a match for the Mustangs, but as mentioned, they were too little too late and no one to fly them.
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Midway
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2019, 08:38:29 PM »
Just wanted to add that all the aircraft in the movie were accurate ( I saw no P-38). 

Dave

    I'm supposed t o see the movie tomorrow. But I gotta agree with Floyd, I'm sure I saw a trailer or a print add with a quick shot of what looked like a P-38. I'll have to study up on my Dauntless books to see if the CGI guys got the Dauntless correct!
   I saw "Dunkirk" at the theater and just couldn't believe what the writers, directors and producers believed what the glide ratio of a dead stick Spitfire was!
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Midway
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2019, 09:10:53 PM »
  There are a few ‘modern’ four letter words.

 Another unacceptable detail IMO, there's simply no reason for it. Just helps magnify the producers lack of attention to detail.
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Offline Ty Marcucci

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Re: Midway
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2019, 09:54:15 PM »
The Japanese Navy had a fixation with the "Decisive Battle," in which the enemy fleet is totally destroyed in one battle. Wars simply do not work that way with two exceptions. One back in 500 BC and the Battle of Tsushima Straights in 1905 . I am reading a history of the Japanese  Navy from its inception back in 1868, thanks to the US Navy and Admiral Perry,  to 1945 when we literally destroyed it.  The book is "Kaigun", which is Japanese for "Navy".  It is by two very dedicated historians, David C. Evans and Mark.R. Peattie.  H^^
« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 05:08:57 PM by Ty Marcucci »
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Offline AirClassix

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Re: Midway
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2019, 02:33:10 AM »
Another unacceptable detail IMO, there's simply no reason for it. Just helps magnify the producers lack of attention to detail.

I'm with you, Wayne.  If Hollywood wants to tell the story of a historical event, they really ought to make a better effort to show the real thing, as accurate for the time period as is practical.

If they want to show us fiction, then please don't use a title that suggests history.

My son thinks the 2001 movie Pearl Harbor is a total joke - and he's only 16 years old!

Dennis

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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: Midway
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2019, 05:24:34 AM »
Another unacceptable detail IMO, there's simply no reason for it. Just helps magnify the producers lack of attention to detail.
I think my 'drift' was missed.  There are no NEW words.  Ever heard "cuss like a sailor"?   My WWII era mother used the term.  We have a picture painted too cleanly of the past I think, sort of naive.  I'd say the producers DIDN"T CLEANSE AWAY the detail.  Take a look at some of that nose art on the bombers.  Not something to show your mother-but she DID know what it meant!  :-)).
.  The old movies and books had to adhere to lists of words they couldn't say and it's also true people were more embarrassed or ashamed to say certain things in public than today but my point was our grandfather's grandfather knew those words-not new.  Did they have to use them in the movie? No but I'm sure some of those guys getting their fannies shot up with a Zero on there tail used them.  These movies are meant to entertain and make a profit, not necessarily to be a history lesson to anyone.  However this particular one IS pretty accurate to what I know of the history and certainly doesn't have a fluff story built in so the females would watch it.  However my daughter took me to the movie and she also found it pretty exciting.  I'd be interested to hear your comments AFTER you've seen it.

Dave
« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 06:26:43 AM by Dave_Trible »
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Offline Jim Howell

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Re: Midway
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2019, 08:42:29 AM »
.....   2. Pacific Payback/Stephen L. Moore    3. Shattered Sword/Jonathan Parshall & Anthony Tully-The battle as seen by the Japanese.  Best book by far on this epic battle.  ....

Concur with the Chief about Pacific Payback and Shattered Sword.  Haven't read the others.  But these two were superb.  While the '50's series Victory at Sea was not without its biases, the segment called "Midway is East" seems to match up pretty well with PP and SS.

Your mileage may vary...

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Offline Ty Marcucci

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Re: Midway
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2019, 09:07:52 AM »
The Raiden was another capable of going up to the B29s. Both the Japanese and the Germans, they planned for a quick war.  Neither had much of a pipe line for new pilots and both had lack of fuel problems. The biggest mistake by the Japanese was that stupid bastardized version of the Code of Bushido, which left the best pilots in the field until dead. Very few ever went back to be instructors , of which we did, thus very little experience was passed onto the new nuggets. The same attitude went for their sub skippers, who were "warriors" and only went after war ships, not lowly merchants, etc. Not us, we sank their entire merchant marine, which left them without fuel, and raw materials with which to keep their war going.  Another strange attitude was their army had it's own merchants fleet, (their Navy and Army NEVER agreed on anything) and after taking material and men to the front, came back EMPTY, they refused to bring back raw materials. The was the Navy's job. Go figure.....
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Offline Bruce Shipp

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Re: Midway
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2019, 09:43:46 AM »
This is not my research.  I pinched it from a coworker who posted it on a work forum, but I thought this group would find it interesting and informative.

Roland Emmerich has a new movie about the Battle of Midway out this weekend. I’ve read a couple Hollywood reviews panning the movie, so that means it must be pretty good, right? No matter the reviews, I will probably see it anyway. Hopefully it’s better than Affleck’s sappy Pearl Harbor. I’m not posting to promote the movie as much as to highlight some facts about the US victory in the first clash between two large aircraft carrier forces. If you’ are interested in World War II history, you already know a lot about the naval battle described as a turning point in the United States war with Japan.

Most are probably aware that after Pearl Harbor the Japanese Navy, under a plan pushed by Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, wanted to lure America’’s remaining carrier forces ( the U.S.S. Lexington sunk and U.S.S. Yorktown severely damaged in the battle of Coral Sea one month earlier) into a trap in order to eliminate the U.S. fleet as a threat in the Pacific. Most are probably aware that Navy cryptologists led by Commander Joseph Rochefort had partially broken the Japanese Naval communication code, thereby discovering Yamamoto’s next target was Midway atoll, which afforded US military planners an opportunity to set a trap of their own.

Admiral Chester Nimitz would place our three remaining aircraft carriers U.S.S. Enterprise, U.S.S. Hornet and a hastily repaired U.S.S. Yorktown to the North and East of Midway in a prime position strike the 4 Japanese fleet carriers ( Akagi, Kaga, Hiryū, and Sōryū) under command of Admiral Chūichi Nagumo. Knowing where the Japanese would next attack also gave Nimitz and the U.S. Navy time to position extra aircraft on the airfield at Midway. Long range reconnaissance PBYS, TBM Avenger torpedo bombers, Navy SB2U dive bombers, Marine SBD dive bombers all joined the mostly obsolete Marine F2 Buffalos and a handful of F4 wildcats. Also in this mix was added around 17 B-17’s and 4 B-26 Marauders.

It is the attack of the Marauders’ on the morning of June 4, 1942 that I want to highlight. It seems to be left out of the 1976 movie “”Midway”” starring Charlton Heston. I’m hoping the 2019 film might include it. The B-26 was a twin engine medium bomber with a crew of seven. Two planes each from different bombing groups of the U.S. Army Air Corps were en route from Hawaii to a base in Australia when they were tabbed to take part in the coming battle. The aircraft were modified to carry aerial torpedos and the crews practiced in the ten days preceding the attack. Shortly after 5:30 am , when Navy PBYS reported sighting the Japanese carriers and incoming strike planes, the aircraft on Midway scrambled airborne. The Marine fighters stayed behind to take on the incoming strike, thus all the other aircraft including the B-26’s proceeded to their target unescorted. The 6 Navy TBM’s arrived first and didn’t have much luck. 5 were quickly shot down.

The Marauders arrived next with Lt. James Collins and his copilot 2Lt. Colin Villines leading the diamond formation. Lt. Herbert Mayes and copilot 2 Lt. Garrett McCallister on one flank with Lt. William Watson and his copilot 2Lt. Leonard Whittington on the other. Lt. James Muri and copilot Lt. Pren Moore came up last. They dropped down close to the sea past the screening ships of the Japanese forces as they started the target run. 28 men hurtled headlong into a wall of lead laid down by attacking A6M2 Zeroes from the Japanese combat air patrol and anti-aircraft fire from their intended target, Admiral Nagumo’s flagship the Akagi. Collins and his formation maneuvered aggressively trying throw off the Akagi’s gunners as they closed. The following excerpt from Lt. Muri is taken from Walter Lord’s “ Midway- The Incredible Victory”. “ As Muri’s Copilot glanced around, every ship seemed a solid sheet of gunfire. Japanese gunners firing into the water using the splashes as tracers and walking the rounds into the B -26’s. But they came on anyhow. At 800 yards Collins released his torpedo and banked hard right”. Lt. Muri never saw what happened to Watson or Mayes as bullets tore through his Marauder. Muri ordered the release of their torpedo but the crew was having difficulty with the improvised delivery switch. Eventually determining it had been delivered Lt Muri looked up and had a dilemma looming, literally. Akagi. Muri banked hard right and flew over the length of Akagi’s flight deck, scattering the deck crews as his gunners raked the ship with their own guns. It must have been quite a fly by. I haven’t been able to determine which B-26, either Watson’s or Mayes’ ( neither returned to Midway) but one, severely damaged, continued bearing down on Akagi in an attempted suicide run barely missing the Akagi’s Bridge before cartwheeling into the sea. Imagine if that had happened.

The incident probably reinforced Nagumo’’s decision to re- arm his reserve planes with bombs for a second strike on the island’’s airfield. The Marauders nor the rest of the strike force from Midway scored any hits that morning, but it kept the Japanese carriers busy enough until our own carrier aircraft arrived on the scene. You all probably know the rest of that story. I hope I did this part of the story justice. I apologize if I got any facts wrong. Feel free to correct. Raise a glass for those who gave everything.

Crews of the downed B-26’s

Pilot 1st Lt William Watson
Copilot 2nd Lt Leonard Whittington
Navigator 2 Lt John Schuman
Bombdr Sgt James Via
Nose Gunner SSgt Richard Decker
Engineer/Turret Cpl Albert Owen
Tail Gunner Cpl Bernard Seitz

Pilot 1st Lt. Herbert Mayes
Copilot 2 Lt Garrett McCallister
Navigator 2Lt. William Hargis
Bombdr 2 Lt. Gerald Barnicle
Nose Gunner SSgt Salvatore Battaglia
Engineer/Turret Pvt Benjamin Huffstickler
Tail Gunner Pvt Roy Walters

« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 10:03:36 AM by Bruce Shipp »

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Re: Midway
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2019, 11:30:32 AM »
I happened to be thumbing through a book on US Navy markings from 1940 to 1945 a couple of days before this post was made, and was surprised to learn both the Navy and Marines received Martin JM-1 Marauders … 225 of them.

They served as advanced trainers and equipped utility squadrons, in addition to their service as bombers.

Dennis
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Offline Ty Marcucci

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Re: Midway
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2019, 05:07:27 PM »
Many of the J-1's were used to tow target sleeves. Only thing fast enough to make it realistic...Bright orange all over them...Good thing fighter pilots are not color blind.... LL~ LL~
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Re: Midway
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2019, 08:59:34 PM »
I think my 'drift' was missed.  There are no NEW words.  Ever heard "cuss like a sailor"?   My WWII era mother used the term.  We have a picture painted too cleanly of the past I think, sort of naive.  I'd say the producers DIDN"T CLEANSE AWAY the detail.  Take a look at some of that nose art on the bombers.  Not something to show your mother-but she DID know what it meant!  :-)).
.  The old movies and books had to adhere to lists of words they couldn't say and it's also true people were more embarrassed or ashamed to say certain things in public than today but my point was our grandfather's grandfather knew those words-not new.  Did they have to use them in the movie? No but I'm sure some of those guys getting their fannies shot up with a Zero on there tail used them.  These movies are meant to entertain and make a profit, not necessarily to be a history lesson to anyone.  However this particular one IS pretty accurate to what I know of the history and certainly doesn't have a fluff story built in so the females would watch it.  However my daughter took me to the movie and she also found it pretty exciting.  I'd be interested to hear your comments AFTER you've seen it.

Dave

 I actually do get your drift Dave. I'm not meaning to imply that there were "new words" used either, and I'm also not naďve to the fact that there obviously would have been plenty cussing going on. The few trailers I've seen though (to me) are pretty lame, looking way too much like a video game and with flying scenes being severely overcondensed with aircraft as one example. And not necessarily "new words" but some use of context that just comes across as too "present day". Either way, I'm planning to go see the movie tomorrow night only because I love WWII aviation and have a great respect for those who fought it. I'm not expecting to be impressed though, we'll see.  D>K
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Midway
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2019, 09:35:30 PM »
   Well, I saw it tonight with my daughter.I was impressed with what some the CGI looked like depicting scenes in harbors and such. The Dauntless aircraft looked real. it was just during the "action" scenes that things got hoaky. There was too much "Independence Day" and "Star Wars" in the battle scenes. After seeing how good the CGI images were looking at first, why could they not make things move in a more scale like way? I'm sure that they could have gotten consultants to work with the CGI artists. If your primary goal is accuracy and reality, then make it real! Make the dive bombers do their runs like they would have during the way, not in a cluster like they did. As Wayne mentioned, having the sky swarming with airplanes just wasn't cutting it. Dead stick landings just didn't happen on a carrier. And they must have thought a SBD carried 500,000 rounds of ammo with the way they were wailing away with the machine guns. The lead "throttle jockey" was acting way over his head. As I mentioned before, at the beginning of the movie, I was impressed with how good the CGI images looked, but just can't understand why they don't take advantage of that and make movements and actions at a more realistic pace. it would be just as "thrilling" and "exciting" !!! All in all, I would give it a C+ or B for a grade, and I found it to be just as what I had been reading from almost all of the movie critics. They should have some one like John Ford, (who was depicted in the movie and was on islands during the Battle of Coral Seas, ) to direct the next movie of this type. Old John would have made it like it was!
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Offline John Rist

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Re: Midway
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2019, 08:29:39 AM »
Went to see it yesterday.  The current movie is purely an action movie.   If you didn't know what was going on you would have missed most of the important historical facts.  Also the acting was just SO-SO.  I am a old fart and that may sway my opinion but the fist version of Midway was better. D>K
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Offline Steve Kocher

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Re: Midway
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2019, 10:42:05 AM »
To add to Ty's list of books on Midway, Wade McClusky and the Battle of Midway by David Rigby is an excellent book on the subject that was just published this May.  Some really important lessons in the book like understanding your mission and not just your assigned task.  It inspired me to build a plastic model replica of McClusky's SDB-3 that he flew on 4Jun42.
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Online Mike Scholtes

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Re: Midway
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2019, 12:34:59 PM »
Fittingly, the wrecks of the Kaga and Akagi were discovered in just the last few weeks by a remote deep sea vehicle, 17,000 feet down. The researchers expect to find the other two carriers soon, in the same vicinity. They determined which ship was which by counting the guns on the gun deck.

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Midway
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2019, 08:55:37 PM »

 Well, just got home from checking it out. Other than the overcondensed flying scenes I've harped about, and the CG aircraft maneuvering like a cartoon, things were pretty good. I still don't like CG stuff but it was done a LOT better than the Red Tails movie. The CG detail of the Naval vessels and the Pearl Harbor scenes was very good. Overall I was pleasantly suprised, damn good movie.
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Re: Midway
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2019, 03:55:39 AM »
Hello
Sounds like it is worth seeing. I enjoyed the original Midway movie as a kid when I went to see it with my Dad but it has not aged that well especially the drama side and 'reused' footage. A good movie for those that like to see real aircraft and not C.G stuff is 633 Squadron with all those real De Havilland Mosquito's . In this case C.G would have been better then destroying 3 nice aircraft (Mosquito's RS718, TA 724 and TA642 all died for the crash scenes) as they often did in those days.

Offline Randy.Birt

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Re: Midway
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2019, 08:56:36 AM »
I thought it was really good. I thought they went much further than most movies trying to set the historical facts as integral to the movie. My two sons 16 and 10 really enjoyed it, and the accuracy gave us a good opportunity to talk about the events. They came away with a much greater understanding of the importance of this battle and the people who took part in it after this movie and the following discussion.

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Midway
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2019, 04:13:23 PM »
On his way to Saipan, at a stopover in Hawaii, my Dad got shanghaied into operating the target sleeve on a Martin B-26 flight.  Trained in a TBM, he was wondering if the Baltimore Whore (called that because it had "no visible means of support"; i.e., small wings) would ever get off the ground and thought they were going to go into the palm trees at the end of the runway. 

Offline John Lindberg

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Re: Midway
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2019, 05:25:22 PM »
I saw the movie today, not bad, not sure why they dedicated the movie to the Japanese soldiers, after the Japanese soldiers played catch with their bayonets, (in China) tossing babies back and forth. Woody Harrelson as Admiral Nimitz was hard to fathom.  :X

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Re: Midway
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2019, 05:43:18 PM »
On his way to Saipan, at a stopover in Hawaii, my Dad got shanghaied into operating the target sleeve on a Martin B-26 flight.  Trained in a TBM, he was wondering if the Baltimore Whore (called that because it had "no visible means of support"; i.e., small wings) would ever get off the ground and thought they were going to go into the palm trees at the end of the runway.

Interesting fact: "The Marauder ended World War II with the lowest loss rate of any USAAF bomber".

As is the case with so many aircraft, physical modifications (more wing area, angle of incidence) and improved training paid dividends.

Dennis
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Midway
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2019, 07:44:30 PM »
Woody Harrelson as Admiral Nimitz was hard to fathom.  :X

 Ha! I've thought the same all along. Right from watching the trailers I had a hard time imagining Woody the bartender cast as Nimitz. Watching the movie that part definitely took some getting used to. Apparently his "Cheers" character is that burned into my brain. He did a good job with it though, the experience was just a weird combination of looking at "Woody" and listening to his voice while trying to imagine him as Nimitz.
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Offline Dan McEntee

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Re: Midway
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2019, 08:59:13 PM »
    Woody Harrelson is just too young to play Nimitz! Nimitz was an old badass at the time and  Woody just doesn't come across that way. Dennis Quaid was OK as Bull Halsey. I just can't think of anyone else that would have been a better Nimitz. Maybe on the next remake!!
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Re: Midway
« Reply #44 on: November 15, 2019, 02:54:52 AM »
Hello We can watch the shorts to Midway but have to wait till the 30th January to get the long version in Cinemas here.
At least we are only behind by 3months now,  not a whole year like when Star Wars came out in 1978 in NZ!
Regards Gerald

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Re: Midway
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2019, 06:32:39 AM »
For the movie goers out there the trailers at the theater show yet another Star Wars coming-The Rise of Skywalker- and a new WWI flick, 1917, which looked interesting. I get to the theater maybe once a decade.  I might break the habit and go see 1917.  I wouldn't mind seeing Midway again.  I'll be looking for the DVD when it comes out.  I have the first version on VCR tape but of course no longer a machine to run it.......back to the workshop.

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Offline John Lindberg

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Re: Midway
« Reply #46 on: November 15, 2019, 06:44:56 AM »
I kept seeing Woody Harrelson as the mad, drunk commander of the troops fighting the apes in "War for the Planet of the Apes", or something like that. Then there is the movie that's out now about Harrelson killing zombies.  D>K D>K

Offline Scott Richlen

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Re: Midway
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2019, 06:54:59 AM »
Woody Harrelson as Nimitz fighting Jap Zombies flying Zeroes.  All right!!

Offline JoeJust

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Re: Midway
« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2019, 10:01:36 AM »
For the movie goers out there the trailers at the theater show yet another Star Wars coming-The Rise of Skywalker- and a new WWI flick, 1917,
For a book written from actual audio tapes about WW-1, check out "The Immigrante", available at Barnes & Noble, Amazon and others in print or in kindle.
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