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Author Topic: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF  (Read 993 times)

Offline Brendan Eberenz

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Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
« on: October 09, 2019, 11:31:49 AM »
I already have a couple of SIG Twister kits to build. I am looking for basic, easy to follow plans on a Fancherized Twister. I am only a year into any plane building/flying, so don't crush me for requesting something that has probably been answered or disseminated on Stunthanger many times before. In fact, I found a 2013 thread where some guys were passing along a PDF file on a Fancherized Twister plans and it sounds like the type of file I am looking for.

Also, I repeat, I am a novice builder, so anything you can pass along that simplifies the Fancherization process would be helpful. I am even willing to hear out a couple Twister building "watch out for" or "you should really consider this" kind of things if they are more generally accepted approaches to Twisters that people routinely endorse. I have seen mile long threads on Twisters so obviously there are a lot of opinions on tweaks that may push out a couple of extra performance points. I'm not an Advanced flyer, so I don't need overloaded with that type of more personalized fine tuning. Dumb it down, keep it simple, and I appreciate any help I can get. If you have a file you want to email me, please send me a Personal Message on Stunthanger and I will give you my home email address. Thanks for all your help.


Offline gene poremba

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Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2019, 12:34:23 PM »

 Brendan, if you look on Outerzone for" Fancherized Twister" the plan you are looking for I believe is there....Gene

Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2019, 01:07:36 PM »
Also, I repeat, I am a novice builder, so anything you can pass along that simplifies the Fancherization process...
I am not sure how the Twister got it's name but it certainly could have come from how the fuselage acts on the kit version.  The one I am flying now came with two pieces that were substandard for their purpose in the kit.  One was the stab.  Way too soft as-is.  Since I was increasing its span by 2" I cut out the center, put in a target arrow shaft for a spar planked it with some cross grained 1/32.  If yours is soft REPLACE IT or fix it.  A weak or warp prone stab is TROUBLE.  The other thing was the fuselage itself.   Mine was good wood but it bent easily and twisted somewhat.  If you are going to lengthen it it will be even worse.  My solution was again target arrow shafts embedded in the top and bottom but there are a host of other equally good solutions.

I also replaced the controls with a Morris system.  If you use the kit stuff make sure you have it exit on the inboard side.

Ken
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Offline Craig Beswick

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Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2019, 01:34:53 PM »
Hey mate,
as previously stated, "Outerzone", has what you are looking for.

I was actually just looking at it for myself prior to reading this post. It seems to have a very straight forward wing, which I like. But I was a little lost with all the doublers up the front and how that all worked, but I am only a novice myself.

I have read some of those, "Lengthy", threads you referred to. The biggest thing with Twister is the flexing in the fuselage, well I believe that is the case, so it may be worth your while to go back and have a look at those threads if no one adds anymore here.

Best of luck with it all.
Craig


Offline Tim Wescott

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Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2019, 01:46:51 PM »
Brendan, if you don't mind exposing yourself to public scrutiny, put up a build thread here or in the "Building Techniques" section.  You'll educate and encourage other beginners, and you'll get lots of helpful advice (sometimes contradictory, but even though you can't buy much with a quarter, you can still flip it to decide what advise to take).

My suggestions:

  • Don't hesitate to throw out substandard wood, whether it's too heavy or too light
  • Find Ted's original article; he goes into the why of Fancherization.  Note that the article was about making the design your own -- so as far as I'm concerned, if it comes out looking like a P-51 but with the same aerodynamics of his design, it's been properly Fancherized
  • Be careful splicing wood.  If you use the kit wood you need to make the fuselage, stab and elevator longer.  Use scarf splices, and cut the wood at an angle of no more than 30 degrees or so from the grain
  • While you're making up the tail feathers, I really like taking the hardest balsa I have and putting tips that are about 1/2" wide on my elevators and stabs, with the grain running fore and aft.  This helps cut down on warping and splitting when the tail feathers have random grain (i.e., A grain where they should be C grain)
  • If you decide to toss the fuselage blanks and make brand new, I strongly suggest
    • laminating the fuse from two sheets of 1/4", but only if you can go really sparing with the glue.  The inevitable mismatch in the grain makes the fuse into "sorta plywood", which stiffens it in twisting.
    • Or go whole hog and use super-light 1/4" with medium-light 1/8" on both sides, and offset the grain directions by five or ten degrees.
    • Or really go whole hog and make up an inner structure from 1/2" square light balsa, sand it flat, and put 3/32" hard-ish balsa onto it -- but only if you live somewhere that doesn't insist on 1/2" wide fuselages, and only if you're ready to work more at repairs when you crash
  • If you don't toss the fuselage blank, laminating 1/2 ounce fiberglass onto the thing can add some rigidity.  It can also add weight if you're not super-sparing with the adhesive, so tread carefully.  I have a 54 ounce Twister that flies OK-ish, but it'd be much better at 48 ounces or less

I could go on -- but if you post that build thread, you'll get lots of help.
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Online Ken Culbertson

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Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2019, 03:09:15 PM »
    Brendan, if you don't mind exposing yourself to public scrutiny, put up a build thread here or in the "Building Techniques" section.  You'll educate and encourage other beginners, and you'll get lots of helpful advice (sometimes contradictory, but even though you can't buy much with a quarter, you can still flip it to decide what advise to take).

    My suggestions:

    • Find Ted's original article; he goes into the why of Fancherization.  Note that the article was about making the design your own -- so as far as I'm concerned, if it comes out looking like a P-51 but with the same aerodynamics of his design, it's been properly Fancherized
    There is a thread called "Show me your Twister"  Probably the most modified plane in Stunt history except perhaps the Nobler.  I did mine as an F-16.

    Ken[/list]
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    Offline Dan McEntee

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    Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
    « Reply #6 on: October 09, 2019, 05:16:18 PM »
        Everything that you need to know about building the Twister is in the instructions. If you are a newbie type flyer/builder, the LAST thing you want to do is get into aspects of the jobs of which you may not understand. The Twister is a VERY capable airplane right out of the box for the type of modeler that you are. It has just enough of what you need to learn how to build, finish and fly. Why go through all the extra expense and work of doing the Fancher modifications, if you have never flown a stock Twister and have any idea of what the modifications are supposed to improve!! No disrespect to Ted Fancher, and I can recommend his modifications if you are going to be flying at a level where you can utilize the improvements. The Fancher mods add weight, time in construction and extra expense. A stock Twister WILL come out lighter. It WILL be a little more crash resistant because a lighter model has less weight in momentum. It WILL be easier to repair in the event of a crash that does damage it. The best thing you can do to a Twister is build it straight and square, and pay attention to the small details. Pay attention to the controls and their installation along with flap and elevator hinge line up. Don't go over board on the finish if you are pretty sure you will be dinging it or worst case rekitting it!. Add things like adjustable lead outs, and a tip weight box. Make your fuel tank adjustable and serviceable.. Where the landing gear plug into the fuselage use the length of tubing with the kit and slide it into the next size up tubing and maybe add a second set of gear straps. I have seen a local flyer do just exactly all of that and use a box stock Twister to go from beginner to Expert, and put a whooping on some Experts with piped airplanes with it. Not a series of Twisters, but one, single airplane! He went through 3 or 4 OS .40 FPs along the way, just flat wore them out. That is what gets you somewhere in the hobby of C/L stunt, practice. You can build a nice, stock Twister and be flying it, while some one else is still building the Fancer version. When you get real confident and comfortable flying the whole patter and taking the airplane home in one piece on a consistent basis, then build yourself a Fancherised Twister, because by then you will understand why Ted did what he did, and you will be able to see and feel the difference. You will also be flying the airplane hard enough to where you will need the modifications. I have been building a box stock SIG Twister with just these simple upgrades I have mentioned, will power it with a nice Fox .35, and plan to fly it in Profile next year just to prove a point. The plane has been built from a random kit, using all the parts in the box and almost all of the hardware. Stay tuned for further developments.
      Type at you later,
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    Online Ken Culbertson

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    Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
    « Reply #7 on: October 09, 2019, 05:54:40 PM »
    ... and you will be able to see and feel the difference. You will also be flying the airplane hard enough to where you will need the modifications.
    Where is it written that you have to know what it is like to fly a plane that sucks to appreciate one that doesn't?  Not that a stock Twister sucks because it doesn't but it is not as good as a Fancherized one and is not as easy to fly.  Why can't the building experience parallel the flying?  I don't understand why we have to master the hard to fly planes before we are allowed to fly the easy ones.  A stock Twister can do great maneuvers but it does not fly like a PA ship.  However, a Fancherized one can be trimmed to come pretty close, especially in light winds.

    Ken
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    Offline Dan McEntee

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    Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
    « Reply #8 on: October 09, 2019, 06:40:00 PM »
    Where is it written that you have to know what it is like to fly a plane that sucks to appreciate one that doesn't?  Not that a stock Twister sucks because it doesn't but it is not as good as a Fancherized one and is not as easy to fly.  Why can't the building experience parallel the flying?  I don't understand why we have to master the hard to fly planes before we are allowed to fly the easy ones.  A stock Twister can do great maneuvers but it does not fly like a PA ship.  However, a Fancherized one can be trimmed to come pretty close, especially in light winds.

    Ken

        All I can say is that you don't learn how to drive a car at Indianapolis on memorial day. You can't bite off more than you can chew. There are lots of other cliches but you get the point. I say the twister is NOT that bad of an airplane and it's contest and sale s records support it. A new builder and new flyer needs to take things in steps. You could have him build a Impact, but it won't make him into a Paul Walker over night, or even after 100 flights. He will learn more in 100 flights with a good, stock Twister and not deplete the worlds supply of balsa more than he has too. I have been on both sides of this experience and have seen others in his place, some dropping out and not coming back because it was almost as hard to repair the Fancher Twister that weighed 55 ounces as it was to build it. Built straight and set up correctly, the Twister is NOT hard or difficult to fly. They have sold too many of them for them to be like that. So let him build a simpler model, pay attention to the critical details because he gets there sooner and is not rushed, and has fun seeing the result.
      Type at you later,
      Dan McEntee

      PS to reiterate, the twister does NOT suck. Show me a profile that is in production that has a 1/2" fuselage that is any more stiff than a Twister? I've probably built them all at some time or another and it's all up to the luck of the draw on the balsa. Mike Gretz didn't design the fuse to twist on purpose!
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    Offline Tim Wescott

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    Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
    « Reply #9 on: October 09, 2019, 06:47:17 PM »
    ... because it was almost as hard to repair the Fancher Twister that weighed 55 ounces as it was to build it ...

    Eh, what?

    Build a Twister, Fancherized or not, with solid tail feathers and a solid fuselage, and it'll be just as easy (or hard) to repair as a stock Twister.  If you take a Twister and modify the structure, then sure -- a sheeted LE will make the wing tend to crush instead of ripping up the sheeting in a crash, and a hollow fuselage will be as much of a repair job as a full fuselage.  But make one that's got a solid fuselage -- one board or laminated, and make the wing according to the Fancherized plans (which just adds half ribs, nothing more), and it'll be just like a Twister in the repair shop.
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    Offline Steve Dwyer

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    Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
    « Reply #10 on: October 09, 2019, 07:11:33 PM »
    Brendan,

    There is not much I can add that has not already been said in this thread as far as building a Fancherized Twister. I will say, however, the F.T. was the second plane I built after the Primary Force that took me into a new level of flying beyond the Old Time Stunt models I had been flying like the PDQ Super Clown, Sterling Profile Mustang to name a couple from the older era.
     
    Moving into these newer design .40 size models took me as a flyer coming back after 50 years to a totally new level. Flying a Twister is not a handful and depending on your skill level it could very well be a jump you are ready for.

    Perhaps, though, you should build a standard Twister put a 35 size engine on it then move on to a Fancherized model with a .40. Take it slow and learn to enjoy the benefits of better performance.

    My two cents worth.

    Steve

    Online Ken Culbertson

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    Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
    « Reply #11 on: October 09, 2019, 09:07:36 PM »
    PS to reiterate, the twister does NOT suck. Show me a profile that is in production that has a 1/2" fuselage that is any more stiff than a Twister? I've probably built them all at some time or another and it's all up to the luck of the draw on the balsa. Mike Gretz didn't design the fuse to twist on purpose!
    You must have missed the part where I said that the Twister did not suck.  Have you considered that Brendan may want to build one simply because he wants to and has come to us for advice on how to do it, not why he shouldn't do it.

    Ken
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    Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
    « Reply #12 on: October 09, 2019, 11:26:30 PM »
    Mr Eberenz,
    from the horses mouth ;

    http://library.modelaviation.com/search/node/fancher%20twister

    or downthebottom ere ; https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/francherized-twister-article/msg484827/#msg484827

    Horses Mouth is a olde English coloquialism , and not to be taken as any literal inferance .  .

    etc



    Online Bruce Shipp

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    Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
    « Reply #13 on: October 10, 2019, 07:30:05 AM »
    Dear Ted,

    This question has literally been bugging me for 32 years, since I first read this article in 1987.  How did you anchor that fuselage in that vice to hold is securely enough to sand the nose?

    Confused in Illinois

     H^^

    Offline Brendan Eberenz

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    Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
    « Reply #14 on: October 10, 2019, 08:10:45 AM »
    I want to thank all of you for your informed thoughts and responses. This is exactly what I was hoping for. To give a little more background, I live in Carmichaels, PA home of Brodak manufacturing. My son (age 9) and I fly in John Brodak's yard about twice a week. We have several foam wing (some all foam, some with ribs) trainer planes that I built from kits (sometimes using jigs) and we have had LOTS of experience with repairs. We are getting close to emerging from the frequent crashing stage and my hope was to have some Twisters ready in the spring. I wanted several Twisters in order to get repetition with building, repetition in knowing how to repair a single type of plane, repetition in flying the same kind of plane, and also have essentially the same replacement plane if one has to go in the shop. With us being novices, repetition is important. ALSO, we have made it to several stunting events, and even small events tend to have PAMPA stunt, Nostalgia, and Profile offered. The Fancherized Twister (1986) allows us to do all three events with one plane, again allowing for repetition. I am not saying that trying new things isn't helpful, but in the early stages, repetition is good for us and the Twister seems like a good fit for us for a while.

    As for the process of building, I plan to use John Brodak's garage where John and Pete Klepsic can supervise/guide my building experience. I am sure they are already a wealth of information on general building techniques and will make sure to focus on precision, not just "slapping something together." Therefore, presenting them with Fancherized plans and a couple of other Twister musts will just set the table for the in depth training I will go through this winter.

    Regarding responses I got so far:
    Craig and Gene - Thanks for the "Outerzone" plans reference. It seems like the site takes me elsewhere for printable plans. I am still working on getting registered with that site, but I am hopeful to get access to the printable plans.
    Tim - Thanks for suggesting I post to the Building Techniques category and promoting steps for a stronger fuselage.
    Dan - You stuck to my initial request to keep things simple for a novice and were mindful of encouraging a design that would be crash resistant and an easier build.
    Ken - You always have something to add to the conversation and gave me perspective last week on a different post where I was trying to identify an electric setup for a Twister. With some of my trainer planes I have struggled with mastering some of the "hard to fly planes." Hopefully a Fancherized Twister will open my eyes to a easier way of flying.
    Matt - Thanks for articles to the original source.

    Online Tim Just

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    Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
    « Reply #15 on: October 10, 2019, 08:27:33 AM »
    Here is/was my rendition of a Fancherized Twister.  It included all the aforementioned changes and a few more I found along the way.  It was a great experience building this model as I learned a little more about building, painting and trimming.  I really wish it would have lasted a little longer.

    Tim

    Offline gene poremba

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    Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
    « Reply #16 on: October 10, 2019, 08:39:16 AM »

     Brendan, if you scroll all the way to the bottom of the page, (the page with the twister plans in the top left), you will see where you can down load the plans to a flash drive. Then take the drive to Staples and they will print it out for you. I just had a plan printed out this past weekend and they charged me $7.00....Gene

    Offline Brendan Eberenz

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    Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
    « Reply #17 on: October 10, 2019, 11:35:19 AM »
    Brendan, if you scroll all the way to the bottom of the page, (the page with the twister plans in the top left), you will see where you can down load the plans to a flash drive. Then take the drive to Staples and they will print it out for you. I just had a plan printed out this past weekend and they charged me $7.00....Gene

    Thanks for the clarification! There is a big Ad between the descriptive stuff and the button to download the plan. It made me think that the Ad on down was nothing of importance. I got the file and am ready to go.

    Offline Tim Wescott

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    Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
    « Reply #18 on: October 10, 2019, 01:28:46 PM »
    If you're going to be building in the presence of an expert, then I suggest that you lay down the plans, then lay the kit fuselage blank down on that, and get your resident expert's advise on how to go about making the changes.  Ditto for the stab & elevators.

    Because I'm just full of opinions ("opinions" starts with "bu" and ends with "it", right?), but your resident expert will have their own system of going about such modifications and if you take their advise, you'll be in tune with that system.
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    Online Ken Culbertson

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    Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
    « Reply #19 on: October 10, 2019, 01:41:50 PM »
    If you're going to be building in the presence of an expert, then I suggest that you lay down the plans, then lay the kit fuselage blank down on that, and get your resident expert's advise on how to go about making the changes.  Ditto for the stab & elevators.

    Because I'm just full of opinions ("opinions" starts with "bu" and ends with "it", right?), but your resident expert will have their own system of going about such modifications and if you take their advise, you'll be in tune with that system.
    Go for it.  If nothing else from this thread you should feel pretty good about your choices.  Chime in every now and then with a progress picture or even a build thread  At first I thought all of the build threads were a bit egotistical but now I really see their value.  Nothing like having a bunch of eyes on your work to keep you from making a huge mistake.

    ken
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    Offline Dan McEntee

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    Re: Looking for Fancherized Twister Plan PDF
    « Reply #20 on: October 10, 2019, 09:55:46 PM »
    I want to thank all of you for your informed thoughts and responses. This is exactly what I was hoping for. To give a little more background, I live in Carmichaels, PA home of Brodak manufacturing. My son (age 9) and I fly in John Brodak's yard about twice a week. We have several foam wing (some all foam, some with ribs) trainer planes that I built from kits (sometimes using jigs) and we have had LOTS of experience with repairs. We are getting close to emerging from the frequent crashing stage and my hope was to have some Twisters ready in the spring. I wanted several Twisters in order to get repetition with building, repetition in knowing how to repair a single type of plane, repetition in flying the same kind of plane, and also have essentially the same replacement plane if one has to go in the shop. With us being novices, repetition is important. ALSO, we have made it to several stunting events, and even small events tend to have PAMPA stunt, Nostalgia, and Profile offered. The Fancherized Twister (1986) allows us to do all three events with one plane, again allowing for repetition. I am not saying that trying new things isn't helpful, but in the early stages, repetition is good for us and the Twister seems like a good fit for us for a while.

    As for the process of building, I plan to use John Brodak's garage where John and Pete Klepsic can supervise/guide my building experience. I am sure they are already a wealth of information on general building techniques and will make sure to focus on precision, not just "slapping something together." Therefore, presenting them with Fancherized plans and a couple of other Twister musts will just set the table for the in depth training I will go through this winter.

    Regarding responses I got so far:
    Craig and Gene - Thanks for the "Outerzone" plans reference. It seems like the site takes me elsewhere for printable plans. I am still working on getting registered with that site, but I am hopeful to get access to the printable plans.
    Tim - Thanks for suggesting I post to the Building Techniques category and promoting steps for a stronger fuselage.
    Dan - You stuck to my initial request to keep things simple for a novice and were mindful of encouraging a design that would be crash resistant and an easier build.
    Ken - You always have something to add to the conversation and gave me perspective last week on a different post where I was trying to identify an electric setup for a Twister. With some of my trainer planes I have struggled with mastering some of the "hard to fly planes." Hopefully a Fancherized Twister will open my eyes to a easier way of flying.
    Matt - Thanks for articles to the original source.

        Hi Brendan;
       Sounds like you got plan. Now you need to make like a Nike add and 'Just Do It!"  You are on the money with the repetition aspect. That's one piece of advice I like to give, pick a design and stick with it. You can build a Twister like the plans show, or you can make the outlines look like anything you want. As you move along with each airplane, and as you practice, you will find a setting for the controls in the airplane and the handle that you will like the speed and feel of. With each succeeding model try to duplicate that as closely as you can. That make trimming and learning a new airplane much easier, as it's REALLY not a new airplane. Lots has been written on the forum on controls, geometry, horn lengths, hole positions on bell cranks and such. As you gain experience you will figure a lot of this out and settle on something.
      The best part of this is doing it with your son. It will be fun learning together, and watching him progress. I was fortunate to have a son who was more or less raised at the flying field and he almost had no choice but to get interested! (You'll see him post here every now and then.) As we traveled to contests and such, many friends were made along the way along with lots of memories. He's in the Army on the down hill side of a 20 year hitch flying UAVs (drones) and his modeling back ground was a definite help to him. With all the people we have met, he has always been near a flying buddy to hang out with or ask for help, or help them. All except for those 6 deployments where Uncle Sam took care of him, and on most trips he still found a way to do some kind of modeling. The modeling back ground can be a good foundation for your son. There is a growing shortage of commercial pilots these days, and he's about the perfect age to get in the thick of it by the time he reaches college, or perhaps in some other career in aviation. And he'll have a lot of fun along the way.
       Type at you later,
       Dan McEntee
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