Laps between maneuvers

[John Carrodus]

Yesterday I helped judging at our club's 'Sportsman and Classic' stunt meet. The wind was gusting and very disruptive. A question popped into my mind. I wondered if a pilot decided to postpone a maneuver for one lap because of a gust of wind, would that be allowed? I have just discovered that it is in the New Zealand wording of the rules which stipulate only between maneuvers - "a minimum of one and a half laps."
           Question- Is this the same in the USA? ie Would an increase in lap count be allowed.
                        - Has anyone ever used this as a tactic in windy ( or for whatever reason ) conditions ?
I thought it rather interesting.
Your thoughts?

[john e. holliday]

To me an extra lap should be okay.   

[Steve Helmick]

Sounds like FAI rules with the 1.5 lap minimum. Even so, using the word "minimum" says (not implies) that you can do an extra lap or two between maneuvers. If you're flying to the 7 minute maximum flight time, that's FAI. We only fly FAI rules for our Team Trials. I've never judged or flown using FAI rules.  Steve

[Dan McEntee]

  Yes, an extra lap or more is allowed if you have the fuel/battery capacity. You "one and a half lap minimum" is just that, the minimum. I'm sure the judges might appreciate an extra lap to stay caught up if the model is plying fast. two laps when you are flying always seems longer than when you are judging!!
 Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Brett Buck]

Yesterday I helped judging at our club's 'Sportsman and Classic' stunt meet. The wind was gusting and very disruptive. A question popped into my mind. I wondered if a pilot decided to postpone a maneuver for one lap because of a gust of wind, would that be allowed? I have just discovered that it is in the New Zealand wording of the rules which stipulate only between maneuvers - "a minimum of one and a half laps."
           Question- Is this the same in the USA? ie Would an increase in lap count be allowed.
                        - Has anyone ever used this as a tactic in windy ( or for whatever reason ) conditions ?
I thought it rather interesting.
Your thoughts?

  Extra laps are OK, no problem. It'a actually pretty common in light air conditions, either waiting for the air to come back, or waiting for the judges to move.

     For conventional AMA rules, the minimum is a "nominal 2 laps". No one is going to ding you if you only do 1.8 laps or something like that for maneuver positioning .

      Brett

[Paul Smith]

Sounds like FAI rules with the 1.5 lap minimum. Even so, using the word "minimum" says (not implies) that you can do an extra lap or two between maneuvers. If you're flying to the 7 minute maximum flight time, that's FAI. We only fly FAI rules for our Team Trials. I've never judged or flown using FAI rules.  Steve

I've flown with the seven minutes in Canada a lot.  If you fly the minimum of 1.5 or 1.8 laps between stunts you will get fly an extra 14 laps waiting for the engine to quit.  That is to say, three laps between stunts doesn't really effect a potential over run.

[Ken Culbertson]

Do it all the time, especially on verticals if the wind is not where I expected it to be.  We have a lot of thermals here and no way do you want to do anything in a thermal.  I set my timer to give me 10 laps past a normal pattern.  I have also flown extra laps to signal the judges that I am going to be doing things in a different place.  They routinely ignore me.

Ken

[Brett Buck]

I've flown with the seven minutes in Canada a lot.  If you fly the minimum of 1.5 or 1.8 laps between stunts you will get fly an extra 14 laps waiting for the engine to quit.  That is to say, three laps between stunts doesn't really effect a potential over run.

  Well, sort of. Once you start the engine, it is going to run about the same time regardless, so yes, if you put in excess fuel, you will get a bunch of laps at the end. But, and I have been doing this a very long time, no one routinely adds extra laps aside from extraordinary circumstances. From signal to wheel stop, a conventional stunt airplane takes about 6:30 to 6:45 doing the prescribed 2 laps between maneuvers.

     There is one difference from FAI to conventional rules, you are allowed to do nominal 1.5 laps between the hourglass and entering the overhead 8, instead of a nominal 2.5. the difference is about 5.5 seconds in terms of pattern length, one lap ,which is in the noise if you are not using a timer.

   FAI used to be very touchy about making it if there was even a minor problem starting the engine. Fortunately, and probably inadvertently, when the got rid of the 10 starting points, it had the side effect of not requiring a hand signal, so the timing can start when the engine starts. In fact, you are screwing up if you give a hand signal.

    You *do* still have to do a hand signal before start for conventional rules. Forget it, and you get an attempt. Of course you also have 8 minutes.

  In any case, if you have 14 laps left over at the end, FAI or normal, you are probably putting in too much fuel. You might sometimes want it in some conditions to allow for repositioning, but as a rule, set the fuel too run 4-5 laps after and have it quit.

     Brett

[John Carrodus]

Thanks for all the replies guys. After a bit more discussion on the field today , it appears some pilots are aware of this wiggle room in the rules, some have used it to their advantage on occasion as called for.
Cheers