How AM radio got it's name.

[Perry Rose]

Reginald Fessenden made the first ever AM voice transmission in 1900. My guess it was in the morning. Otherwise it would have been a PM voice transmission.

[Mark Romanowitz]

Humorous take on it..

Would have made remembering all of the technical details between AM, FM, and PM in Navy Communications School SO much easier..

The first broadcast was Christmas Eve, 1906 at 9:00 PM, Pretty amazing with how far Radio has come in just over 100 years.

I had forgotten that he was also an early pioneer in Radar and Sonar.

Good writeup here:

https://ewh.ieee.org/reg/7/millennium/radio/radio_birth.html

[Gerald Arana]

FWIW; AM=Amplitude modulation

Jerry

[Mark Romanowitz]

Yes, AM = Amplitude Modulation, FM = Frequency Modulation, PM = Phase Modulation, which by the way, using signal phase to modulate the carrier wave induces a frequency change, so some refer to it as "Induced Frequency Modulation"..

I think Perry was just funning us there..

But Reginald Fessenden was the real deal.

[Brett Buck]

Yes, AM = Amplitude Modulation, FM = Frequency Modulation, PM = Phase Modulation, which by the way, using signal phase to modulate the carrier wave induces a frequency change, so some refer to it as "Induced Frequency Modulation"..

I think Perry was just funning us there..

But Reginald Fessenden was the real deal.

  BTW, the first regularly schedule voice, news  and music radio broadcasts were done from San Jose, California, by Charles "Doc" Herrold, in 1909. It didn't use a microphone or a normal radio amplifier, it was called an "arc phone", basically a arc/spark gap transmitter where you spoke into the arc "microphone" and that modulated the signal. The microphone had to be water-cooled, basically he was running a high frequency and high-power arc inside the "microphone" - basically like talking into an arc welder. He powered it by hooking up to the San Jose electric trolley lines, effectively stealing the power.

    This was long before KDKA got the first "commercial broadcast" license in 1920, and long before there was anything like an FCC to invent and issue call numbers or any other regulation. It later sold to CBS, and the same station is the current KCBS, 740 AM in San Francisco, minus the arc phone, stolen electricity, or Doc Herrold.

     Brett

[Jim Kraft]

  The first model airplane radios were voice operated. He was for left and Ha was for right. That is how we got the first radio interference. Some one began to laugh. Ha ha ha ha. The plane went into a right hand spiral and crashed.

[John Rist]

  The first model airplane radios were voice operated. He was for left and Ha was for right. That is how we got the first radio interference. Some one began to laugh. Ha ha ha ha. The plane went into a right hand spiral and crashed.

HA HA ! 

[Dan McEntee]

  The first model airplane radios were voice operated. He was for left and Ha was for right. That is how we got the first radio interference. Some one began to laugh. Ha ha ha ha. The plane went into a right hand spiral and crashed.

       Hello Mr. Kraft!!;
        Jim Walker did have a control system that worked off of voice controls. I haven't read up on the details of how it worked but have seen photos of a glider type model with what looks like a big speaker on each side. The AMA Museum may have some details on how that worked, but obviously, might not function at all on a powered model!! I don't know how successful Walker's system was or wasn't!!

   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Jim Kraft]

 
   Jim Walker was quite the innovator. He also had a radio controlled lawn mower. If I remember correctly he was doing demo with it and something went wrong and it ate three Fire Balls.

[Roy DeCamara]

I read somewhere that Jim Walker said that, after the first parade with the radio controlled lawnmower, he made sure to be in front of the horses from then on!

[Mark Romanowitz]

  BTW, the first regularly schedule voice, news  and music radio broadcasts were done from San Jose, California, by Charles "Doc" Herrold, in 1909. It didn't use a microphone or a normal radio amplifier, it was called an "arc phone", basically a arc/spark gap transmitter where you spoke into the arc "microphone" and that modulated the signal. The microphone had to be water-cooled, basically he was running a high frequency and high-power arc inside the "microphone" - basically like talking into an arc welder. He powered it by hooking up to the San Jose electric trolley lines, effectively stealing the power.

    This was long before KDKA got the first "commercial broadcast" license in 1920, and long before there was anything like an FCC to invent and issue call numbers or any other regulation. It later sold to CBS, and the same station is the current KCBS, 740 AM in San Francisco, minus the arc phone, stolen electricity, or Doc Herrold.
  Brett

Basically like talking into an arc welder!  We've come a long way.. Hopefully there were no fried lips back then!

[GallopingGhostler]

The first model airplane radios were voice operated. He was for left and Ha was for right. That is how we got the first radio interference. Some one began to laugh. Ha ha ha ha. The plane went into a right hand spiral and crashed.

It's a feature, not a bug! (Early railings of M$)

Thus, single channel rudder only was born!

(Did that back in the early 1970's, but kept getting chided by the full house .40 4 channel crowd for flying a "toy" airplane.  )   

[GallopingGhostler]

Basically like talking into an arc welder!  We've come a long way.. Hopefully there were no fried lips back then!

That is a quaint reminder of my first arc welder I purchased by mail in 1972 still in high school. It was in a J.C. Whitney catalog (you know, the ones received every month that made good reading material in outhouses), cost forget what, but like $20? It had no transformer, two coiled wires inside a louvered steel cabinet for each side of the 2 electrodes connected directly to a 115 Volt AC outlet. Made a loud hum. Never could do any decent welding with it. It is a wonder that I didn't shock myself with it.

About the only thing fried around here that gets smoked is someone trying to correct another in political discussions. 

[Mark Romanowitz]

About the only thing fried around here that gets smoked is someone trying to correct another in political discussions. 

Not sure what hot dispute or political discussion you are referring to.. I don't see any in this thread..

Brett's a very smart guy and has a lot of good information to share, and I found his analogy of talking into an Arc Welder amusing.

There shouldn't be any problem with that..

[Brett Buck]

Basically like talking into an arc welder!  We've come a long way.. Hopefully there were no fried lips back then!

  Should have been OK unless the cooling pump stopped!   At the time, the only way to create a continuous carrier wave was with an "arc transmitter" that is more-or-less exactly what it sounds like, a spark gap transmitter that created and quenched a giant high power spark at a roughly fixed frequency , like an arc lamp. Before that, spark transmitters worked only in morse code by turning the arc on and off. Someone noticed that if you blew air into the arc it changed the amplitude of the "buzz", that was the idea behind the arc phone. This was well before anything like the exotic high-tech "vacuum tube".

  Regarding the politics, obviously my post was not political and I think you are reading a lot more than intended to the comment about politics, it wasn't directed at me as far as I can tell.  In fact, I have been studiously avoiding the obvious opportunities to say "I told you so" here and I note that the usual instigators have been unusually silent regarding two blindingly obvious "areas" for comment. That's presumably because the usual instigators were proven definitively *wrong* in virtually their every comment.  And also proving that only one "side" were instigating, the rest of us just wanting to talk about model airplanes (or radio history) but were also unwilling to be attacked without a response.

     Brett

p.s the most important radio designs and techniques were all invented by ONE GUY! Howard Armstrong invented the Regenerative receiver (greatly increasing the performance and greatly simplifying the design of early radio receivers), the super-regenerative receiver (a vast improvement over the regenerative receiver to the point it was possible to build them for reasonable prices by the tens of millions), the Super-Heterodyne receiver (increasing the performance again and greatly simplifying them again, and the basis for virtually every current radio system, including your cell phone and WiFi), and FM (greatly improving the fidelity, also still used in all sorts of things today). He ended up jumping out a window in frustration of some personal failings while suing RCA over FM, his widow kept the case going for decades and finally won. He was also sued by a borderline huckster named Lee DeForest who "invented" the first amplifying vacuum tube, he ultimately lost in court, but in his testimony, he was the first to explain to everyone, including the supposed "inventor", how it actually worked.

p.p.s Hedy Lamarr did get a patent for a sort of idea vaguely related to "spread spectrum" radio techniques intended to guide torpedos,  but definitely *did not invent anything closely related to current cell phone spread-spectrum radio", despite what you may have heard.
   

[Mark Romanowitz]

Thanks, Brett..

Wasn't sure how to take that, I appreciate you helping me gain perspective. 

I've had enough politics and vitriol outside of stunt to last me the rest of my life.

Admittedly, my aeronautical knowledge is "arm chair" and probably more suited to "Magnificent Men and their Flying Machines" Rather than "Top Gun Maverick", and my radio education was aimed at making me a Navy Airborne Communications Officer, not a Technician, let alone an Electrical Engineer.. But I do remember a few things.. And I look back on that era of my life fondly.

I'm here to have fun and learn something.. And I appreciate those who really do know what they are talking about and who are willing to share.

[EricV]

  Should have been OK unless the cooling pump stopped!   At the time, the only way to create a continuous carrier wave was with an "arc transmitter" that is more-or-less exactly what it sounds like, a spark gap transmitter that created and quenched a giant high power spark at a roughly fixed frequency , like an arc lamp. Before that, spark transmitters worked only in morse code by turning the arc on and off. Someone noticed that if you blew air into the arc it changed the amplitude of the "buzz", that was the idea behind the arc phone. This was well before anything like the exotic high-tech "vacuum tube".

  Regarding the politics, obviously my post was not political and I think you are reading a lot more than intended to the comment about politics, it wasn't directed at me as far as I can tell.  In fact, I have been studiously avoiding the obvious opportunities to say "I told you so" here and I note that the usual instigators have been unusually silent regarding two blindingly obvious "areas" for comment. That's presumably because the usual instigators were proven definitively *wrong* in virtually their every comment.  And also proving that only one "side" were instigating, the rest of us just wanting to talk about model airplanes (or radio history) but were also unwilling to be attacked without a response.

     Brett

p.s the most important radio designs and techniques were all invented by ONE GUY! Howard Armstrong invented the Regenerative receiver (greatly increasing the performance and greatly simplifying the design of early radio receivers), the super-regenerative receiver (a vast improvement over the regenerative receiver to the point it was possible to build them for reasonable prices by the tens of millions), the Super-Heterodyne receiver (increasing the performance again and greatly simplifying them again, and the basis for virtually every current radio system, including your cell phone and WiFi), and FM (greatly improving the fidelity, also still used in all sorts of things today). He ended up jumping out a window in frustration of some personal failings while suing RCA over FM, his widow kept the case going for decades and finally won. He was also sued by a borderline huckster named Lee DeForest who "invented" the first amplifying vacuum tube, he ultimately lost in court, but in his testimony, he was the first to explain to everyone, including the supposed "inventor", how it actually worked.

p.p.s Hedy Lamarr did get a patent for a sort of idea vaguely related to "spread spectrum" radio techniques intended to guide torpedos,  but definitely *did not invent anything closely related to current cell phone spread-spectrum radio", despite what you may have heard.
 

As long as we are dishing out the uber important trivia, this should take precedent...  she sued Brooks too, and he happily paid! LOL!

https://youtu.be/ZEQ3OxYL2Co?feature=shared&t=51

EricV

[Dan McEntee]

That is a quaint reminder of my first arc welder I purchased by mail in 1972 still in high school. It was in a J.C. Whitney catalog (you know, the ones received every month that made good reading material in outhouses), cost forget what, but like $20? It had no transformer, two coiled wires inside a louvered steel cabinet for each side of the 2 electrodes connected directly to a 115 Volt AC outlet. Made a loud hum. Never could do any decent welding with it. It is a wonder that I didn't shock myself with it.

     I remember seeing those in the Whitney catalogs, and some one giving one of them to my older brother Ted, who was the first in my family to take any serious interest in welding. I don't remember if we even plugged it in or played with it, and I imagine it scared us a bit!! I was pretty young, not quite 12 years old yet I think. Ted went to a local vocational school for the 2 year Fitter/Welder program, which taught all gas and electric processes, ( and he was very good, probably the best I have ever seen,) and after trying out an arc welder in metal shop, I decided I wanted to go that route also and attended the same program. In welding class, when we were getting into the arc welding phase in the first year, some one brought in one of those to see if we could do anything with it. My instructor, Mr. Lutz, explained to us that it was a twin carbon arc welder. In a fashion similar to a carbon arc spot light, you brought the two carbon electrodes together to establish the arc and used the heat generated to perform the welding process desired. We had learned enough by that point, that we were able to determine that these were really only a welder by name!! Really no way to control the heat and temperatures, and about the only process you might be able to attempt was brazing sheet metal with it. Even the instructor, who was a very good combination welder and one of my favorite school teachers ever, couldn't do much with it. About the only reason I would want one now is for sitting on the shelf for display if it was in like new shape with all labels and tags!! When I went out in the world to work, I did do a lot of carbon arc cutting and gouging, which was a single carbon electrode and a button to turn on the compressed air jet to blow away what ever metal you were working with. I could cut a pretty good groove in a cracked steel plate or cast iron assembly for filling in with weld or brazing operation, but no way to neatly cut something into two pieces if that is what you wanted to do. When I went to school, plasma arc cutting was just in it's infancy, and the cost of the machines and the gas for the plasma was too prohibitive to have one in the shop. We covered the process and what it was for in the related class room classes but never got any experience with one. Technology rapidly improved and now plasma arc cutting is as common as a pair of ordinary scissors! You can't watch any kind of reality hotrod or chopper building show without seeing some one use one and the equipment is super light and portable, and uses compressed air instead of inert gasses. The welder I bought myself for a retirement gift is a 200 amp TIG and stick welding machine and only needs a good 20 amp 120VAC outlet to power it and was right around $2000. It only weighs about 60 pounds!!  A comparable outfit when I bought my first house in 1980 or so would have cost me about $15,000 including having 3 phase power run to the garage from a nearby pole! This is why I believe in aliens from outer space!! They must have brought us the technology to eliminate transformers as we have known them up to this point in history!!  The computer monitor that I'm using while I type this weighs just a fraction of the CRT monitor it replaced and I got about half of my desk top space back!!  Who would of ever thunk we would ever progress this far!!

   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[GallopingGhostler]

I remember seeing those in the Whitney catalogs, and some one giving one of them to my older brother Ted, who was the first in my family to take any serious interest in welding. I don't remember if we even plugged it in or played with it, and I imagine it scared us a bit!! I was pretty young, not quite 12 years old yet I think.

Ted went to a local vocational school for the 2 year Fitter/Welder program, which taught all gas and electric processes, ( and he was very good, probably the best I have ever seen,) and after trying out an arc welder in metal shop, I decided I wanted to go that route also and attended the same program. In welding class, when we were getting into the arc welding phase in the first year, some one brought in one of those to see if we could do anything with it.

My instructor, Mr. Lutz, explained to us that it was a twin carbon arc welder. In a fashion similar to a carbon arc spot light, you brought the two carbon electrodes together to establish the arc and used the heat generated to perform the welding process desired. We had learned enough by that point, that we were able to determine that these were really only a welder by name!! Really no way to control the heat and temperatures, and about the only process you might be able to attempt was brazing sheet metal with it. Even the instructor, who was a very good combination welder and one of my favorite school teachers ever, couldn't do much with it. About the only reason I would want one now is for sitting on the shelf for display if it was in like new shape with all labels and tags!!

Now that I think about it, about all I was able to do with that J.C. Whitney carbon arc welder was to burn holes in thin sheet metal, that was about it. It was a glorified waste of money, but my part time job on a poultry farm after school gave me enough money to try.

When I went out in the world to work, I did do a lot of carbon arc cutting and gouging, which was a single carbon electrode and a button to turn on the compressed air jet to blow away what ever metal you were working with. I could cut a pretty good groove in a cracked steel plate or cast iron assembly for filling in with weld or brazing operation, but no way to neatly cut something into two pieces if that is what you wanted to do.

When I went to school, plasma arc cutting was just in it's infancy, and the cost of the machines and the gas for the plasma was too prohibitive to have one in the shop. We covered the process and what it was for in the related class room classes but never got any experience with one. Technology rapidly improved and now plasma arc cutting is as common as a pair of ordinary scissors! You can't watch any kind of reality hotrod or chopper building show without seeing some one use one and the equipment is super light and portable, and uses compressed air instead of inert gasses.

You and your brother made a good living by becoming welders. I remembered watching them from a distance on a construction site, then look at their work when no one was around. These guys were ASME certified as it was structural steel they were welding for building framing support and water storage tanks. I could tell they were well experienced by the eveness of the bead welding. They were fast but thorough, no problems at all when an ASME weld inspector checked it out and gave them flying colors.

The welder I bought myself for a retirement gift is a 200 amp TIG and stick welding machine and only needs a good 20 amp 120VAC outlet to power it and was right around $2000. It only weighs about 60 pounds!!

A comparable outfit when I bought my first house in 1980 or so would have cost me about $15,000 including having 3 phase power run to the garage from a nearby pole! This is why I believe in aliens from outer space!! They must have brought us the technology to eliminate transformers as we have known them up to this point in history!!

The computer monitor that I'm using while I type this weighs just a fraction of the CRT monitor it replaced and I got about half of my desk top space back!!  Who would of ever thunk we would ever progress this far!!

Sounds like a real nice parting gift from the working world you got there, Dan. I imagine that occasionally there is a demand for someone who can do some welding here and there with that rig.

I pushed paperwork instead for 35 years, so for me it is motorcycles, model planes and musical instruments.

[Jim Kraft]

  Hey Galloping Ghoster. I started flying radio with a Command Master galloping ghost radio in a Midwest Esquire with an Enya 19. Learned to do loops and rolls with it on rudder only.

  My last 26 years of employment was a trouble shooter for a refinery products pipeline. I remember the first time we had to have a half sole welded on the pipe. The welder said not to worry. We were running 1400 pounds of pressure on gasoline, and he said, the gasoline would keep the pipe cool enough so that he would not burn through it when he welded in the ends.  He was right of course, but I was a little leery the first time.

Most of my job was keeping the pump stations running, the safety equipment checked, and the electronic telemetry working so the dispatchers knew that each pump station was working normal. We used 2400 volt motors to drive the pumps.

[GallopingGhostler]

I started flying radio with a Command Master galloping ghost radio in a Midwest Esquire with an Enya 19. Learned to do loops and rolls with it on rudder only.

After flying with more channels, would like to one of these days return to rudder only with a slight modification, engine control. It was the simplest and "funnest" way to enjoy one's self. A quart can of fuel, starting battery, and hand launch, didn't need a good landing surface, grass was fine. I'm hoping under the new incoming administration that they return modellers to the way it was before.

Learned through life if one dealt with the violaters nipped things in the bud. Yes, a slightly larger plane with a legacy .25 or less, Schneurle .15 or less, bore holes in the sky all afternoon.

My last 26 years of employment was a trouble shooter for a refinery products pipeline. I remember the first time we had to have a half sole welded on the pipe. The welder said not to worry. We were running 1400 pounds of pressure on gasoline, and he said, the gasoline would keep the pipe cool enough so that he would not burn through it when he welded in the ends.  He was right of course, but I was a little leery the first time.

Most of my job was keeping the pump stations running, the safety equipment checked, and the electronic telemetry working so the dispatchers knew that each pump station was working normal. We used 2400 volt motors to drive the pumps.

I was sent to NACE a couple times to learn the work of cathodic protection tech 1 and 2 and their entry level designers course, so have an idea of what you were talking about. The welder understood the science involved. Without the other component, an oxidizer, air, fuel doesn't burn and yes, with such a fast flow fuel was carrying away any heat on the other side.

It is just in another sense our minds don't want to compute because without the science behind it, it makes no sense.

Retired in 2012 and let my NACE certifications expire. Sometimes wonder if I should have kept them active. Was also thinking of taking the GROL – General Radiotelephone Operator License, have the background to pass it. Would allow me to tinker with R/C transmitter circuits. But I got my soul back, found playing the saxophone more satisfying.

[Norm Faith Jr.]

  BTW, the first regularly schedule voice, news  and music radio broadcasts were done from San Jose, California, by Charles "Doc" Herrold, in 1909. It didn't use a microphone or a normal radio amplifier, it was called an "arc phone", basically a arc/spark gap transmitter where you spoke into the arc "microphone" and that modulated the signal. The microphone had to be water-cooled, basically he was running a high frequency and high-power arc inside the "microphone" - basically like talking into an arc welder. He powered it by hooking up to the San Jose electric trolley lines, effectively stealing the power.

    This was long before KDKA got the first "commercial broadcast" license in 1920, and long before there was anything like an FCC to invent and issue call numbers or any other regulation. It later sold to CBS, and the same station is the current KCBS, 740 AM in San Francisco, minus the arc phone, stolen electricity, or Doc Herrold.

     Brett

You mentioned "KDKA." (Pittsburg) During my younger years, I spent many Summers in New Kensington, PA at my grandparent's house, I remember listening to the Pirate's baseball games and other shows and music. Most of all was the "jingles" about Iron City, Dukane and Koehler beer. I had them all memorized and drove my mom and dad nuts, singing them all the way back to Miami in the back seat of the car.

[Jim Kraft]

    Single channel R/C was a lot of fun. I still fly a couple of old time planes, a Lanzo Bomber scaled down to 60" with an Ohlsson side port 23 on ignition, and an 80" Playboy Sr, with and Ohlsson side port 60 on ignition. But, I use 3 servos. One for rudder, one for elevator, and one for ignition cut off. I have a nice collection of old ignition engines that I have restored to like new. Mostly Anderson Spitfires, Super Cyclones, Atwood Super Champions, and Ohlssons, both side port and front valve. That is another hobby in itself. I still have 6 control line planes with ignition engines. Once you have flown ignition, glow is a little ho-hum. And the cost of fuel is almost nothing compared to glow fuel.

[GallopingGhostler]

Single channel R/C was a lot of fun. I still fly a couple of old time planes, a Lanzo Bomber scaled down to 60" with an Ohlsson side port 23 on ignition, and an 80" Playboy Sr, with and Ohlsson side port 60 on ignition. But, I use 3 servos. One for rudder, one for elevator, and one for ignition cut off. I have a nice collection of old ignition engines that I have restored to like new. Mostly Anderson Spitfires, Super Cyclones, Atwood Super Champions, and Ohlssons, both side port and front valve. That is another hobby in itself. I still have 6 control line planes with ignition engines. Once you have flown ignition, glow is a little ho-hum. And the cost of fuel is almost nothing compared to glow fuel.

Jim, that's an idea, migrating to gasoline power. But considering what some spend in golf green fees and bowling costs, at least for now, glow is still attainable. Over time as nitro get harder to obtain, may signal a more to other power.