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Author Topic: Help with positioning WWII wing insignia  (Read 841 times)

Offline Rusty

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Help with positioning WWII wing insignia
« on: April 30, 2024, 04:25:46 PM »
Hello,   I am not sure how to position the wing insignia on the P51B Mustang I am building.  I have studied what photos are available and cannot exactly figure it out.  The idea I am thinking may be best is to have the edges 90 degrees to the side of the fuselage and invasion strips.  However, the edges could be centered by the width of the wing, too. 

If you have done this before, please help.  Thanks

PS: These are Cali graphics, Berlin Express.

Offline Dick Byron

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Re: Help with positioning WWII wing insignia
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2024, 07:54:33 PM »
That looks great.

Offline Motorman

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Re: Help with positioning WWII wing insignia
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2024, 09:00:27 PM »
I have put on decals square to edges, measure with rulers ect. and they don't look right. It an optical illusion or something. What I found that works is to forget all that and put the decal on and position it so it looks good by just using your eyes. Works every time.

MM 8) 

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Help with positioning WWII wing insignia
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2024, 09:59:40 PM »
 This goes for almost all WWII and prior U.S. insignia placements, later swept wing aircraft will vary. Proper placement can make or break the appearance of your model, it's worth giving time and attention to these details. y1

 For the wing insignias, simply use an "imaginary" straight line wingtip to wingtip as a primary alignment reference point, that line being 90 degrees in relation to the fuselage center line. Determine where you want the insignia placed front to rear, (ignoring the angles of the L/E and T/E) and then align the insignia exactly parallel to the imaginary wingtip to wingtip reference line. Top of left wing and bottom of right wing is correct for placement. ALWAYS have the top point of the star pointing to the FRONT of the aircraft, don't be that guy that puts them upside down!  HB~>

 For the fuselage insignias, use another "imaginary" straight line down the design center line of the fuselage. This is usually the same as the engine thrust line. Determine the desired front/rear/height location for the insignia and place it exactly parallel to the determined imaginary centerline. ALWAYS have the top point of the star pointing to the TOP of the fuselage. And remember, don't be that guy!  :)

 Google three view searches can be your friend for placement referencing on specific aircraft designs.  y1
« Last Edit: April 30, 2024, 10:26:44 PM by wwwarbird »
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
Albert Lea, MN U.S.A. IC C/L Aircraft Modeler, Ex AMA member

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Help with positioning WWII wing insignia
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2024, 10:13:44 PM »
https://toflyandfight.com/p-51c-profile-berlin-express/



will no doubt be a few plastic scale build threads . I.P.M.S. & suchlike . plus 3 views .



http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=55545
==========================================================





Offline Air Ministry .

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Offline Rusty

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Re: Help with positioning WWII wing insignia
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2024, 07:54:58 AM »
Thank you very much for the help.

Motorman, I tried doing what you said, by repositioning it and came to the conclusion I can't trust myself and there must be a precision way to do it.  I have attached a picture where I centered it by eye. 

WWWwarbird, I used a carpenters square to put alignment marks and attached a picture.

Air Ministry, Thank you for the info.  I have searched for weeks trying to find data.  I can't see any reference lines, etc.  I have found a couple pictures where I tried putting a draftsman triangle on the picture to determine alignment. 

Please see pictures and let me know what you think.  The pictures have titles in the details


Offline Rusty

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Re: Help with positioning WWII wing insignia
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2024, 08:02:41 AM »
last picture

Offline Trostle

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Re: Help with positioning WWII wing insignia
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2024, 08:30:29 AM »
last picture


The best way I can explain it and according to the several drawings already sent to you, the center line of the insignia needs to be perpendicular to the center line of the airplane.  Since this is not a totally scale model, the best way to position the fore and aft location, center the insignia between the leading edge of the wing and the aileron leading edge.  The location from the tip of the wing would probably look best or OK  and according to the drawings you showed would be to center the insignia between the wing tip and the outside line of the invasion stripes.

Just my 2 cents worth based a bit of building/finishing scale and semiscale models.

Keith

Offline Rusty

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Re: Help with positioning WWII wing insignia
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2024, 10:42:50 AM »

The best way I can explain it and according to the several drawings already sent to you, the center line of the insignia needs to be perpendicular to the center line of the airplane.  Since this is not a totally scale model, the best way to position the fore and aft location, center the insignia between the leading edge of the wing and the aileron leading edge.  The location from the tip of the wing would probably look best or OK  and according to the drawings you showed would be to center the insignia between the wing tip and the outside line of the invasion stripes.

Just my 2 cents worth based a bit of building/finishing scale and semiscale models.

Keith

Thank you. 

So you're saying to center the insignia between the invasion strip and the wing tip.  Okay.

I don't get how you are saying to center the insignia between the wing width.  Are you saying to measure between the leading edge and the leading edge of the aileron and center it on each side?   I made a yellow line to show what edge I am talking about.


Offline Rusty

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Re: Help with positioning WWII wing insignia
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2024, 11:24:22 AM »
This looks to me like it is 90 degrees to fuselage.   What do you think?

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Help with positioning WWII wing insignia
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2024, 07:43:31 PM »
Rightio !  VD~

A piece of STRING !

with the muddle inverted , hold a stick upright ( Or the model vertial on a wall , hold a stick flat ! )

First you get a book , at the tip , and put a mark say 2 inch IN . AND you do it on the leading edge , and say 2 in back . Both Sides . Left and right , rather'n top'n bottom . For Now .  ;D

A piece of string between the two , has ta bee poipendicula .

OR , if you had BOOKS , and some were the same , youd nail it to the wall , jack it vertical in the fuselage , drop THE SAME books under each wing/tip . So the WINGS square too .
Then you get a packet off weetbix , new , on end . Put it adjacent . A thin book on that , going into against the wing , And get a LINE off That ! .

Or you could use string & shadows , if youve got the lightbulb steady .

DONT DROP IT .

o.k. , well , you did ask .  S?P Blocks of wood , long straight things , and miscelaeneous modsular ' things ' ( offcuts - plasticx containers etc ) get equidistant referances . Have a beer and settle down .  ;D

Id put it a tiny bit ( 1/4 inch ) further IN . Have end of bar to tip say near twice end of bar to stripe . As with the curvy tip , it goes in and out , depending on the angle its viewed . Try that & try equal . Suit yerself .

 H^^

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Help with positioning WWII wing insignia
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2024, 07:49:30 PM »

purloined : https://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?/topic/75148-wwii-invasion-stripes-p-51-mustang/


I think your right in having wing stripes TOP & BOTTOM , as the real one does to .



in this picture , at least .  https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/hyperscale/looking-for-info-on-berlin-express-t533350.html

Some of the poms had a beer ( or two ) and used any paint they could find. and brushes )as in a BROOM , overnight , it was ! . So stripes ' did vary '
Date of photo would depend . 6th June till a few weeks ?? after ( top ) some woulda used ' water soluble paint ' ( distemper ) so wether later washed off , or overpainted  , is niether here nor their .
If you  were THAT pedantic , youd study the Units History , 55 F G & 363 F S specifically , to try'n date variations ( in stripes ) & dates . But if it were airborne at the time , it coulda varied from that ! .



nutha intrestin one : https://www.aircorpsaviation.com/p-51b-shillelagh-wings-of-the-north-museum-project-fall-2021-update/
« Last Edit: May 01, 2024, 08:07:50 PM by Air Ministry . »

Offline Rusty

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Re: Help with positioning WWII wing insignia
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2024, 07:59:24 AM »
Thanks Air Ministry.   



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