Gas to the flying field

[frank williams]

I haven't flown for the last two weekends cause I figured out that it costs me $25 in gasoline to make it there and back.

Come on Brandon ....Just put it back like it was!

[Steve Helmick]

I haven't flown for the last two weekends cause I figured out that it costs me $25 in gasoline to make it there and back.

Come on Brandon ....Just put it back like it was!

  Steve

[Gerald Arana]

Come on Brandon ....
[/quote]

Brandon?!  Do you mean "Bite-me"?   

I haven't been flying in weeks either............same problem. 

Jerry

[Paul Walker]

You should see what it will cost me to get to the Nat's pulling our 5th wheel.

[Brett Buck]

I haven't flown for the last two weekends cause I figured out that it costs me $25 in gasoline to make it there and back.

Come on Brandon ....Just put it back like it was!

    Didn't you hear, it's Putin's fault. Of course, Putin has been there for 30 years during which prices were perfectly fine, Brandon has been there for a year and a half during which time everything fell completely off the rails, but, you know, just ignore that. You sacrifices help produce a new Liberal World Order.

   BTW, fun fact - I tried the Tesla trip planner, assumed I had the highest-range model selected, and planned my trip to Muncie. Van, it's 33 hours total, with 7 stops total*(including 2 overnighters), leave on Thursday morning, get there Saturday afternoon. Tesla recommended **22** stops, for a total of *52 hours* total driving and charging time. And of course, when you get there (as Howard found) nearest Supercharger is 60 miles away. That turns a 3-day trip into a 5 day trip, basically, out of the question once the cost of my time is included

   Note that this is no accident - just like the 55 mph speed limit, the idea is not quite to just save gas, it's to make long-distance travel effectively impossible without using "collective" public transit. Private jets are good for the super-rich, but a regular Joe 12-pack and his family should just stay home.

     Brett

*Chevron station in Winnemucca, Nevada
La Quinta Airport in Salt Lake City, Utah
Little America, WY
Phillips 66 in Sidney Nebraska
Holiday Inn Express in York, Nebraska
Iowa 80 Truck Stop, Davenport, Iowa
Comfort Inn and Suites, Muncie, IN


     

[John Paris]

You should see what it will cost me to get to the Nat's pulling our 5th wheel.

Paul,
You won't make that all up in hotel savings???   

Safe travels.

John

[Matt Colan]

I haven't flown for the last two weekends cause I figured out that it costs me $25 in gasoline to make it there and back.

Come on Brandon ....Just put it back like it was!

I drive 4 hours round trip to go fly in Dallas. It costs me roughly $50 per trip…I’ve flown almost every weekend since the beginning of May. I try not to think about how much money I’ve dumped to go get 5-7 flights and drive home

[Paul Walker]

I drive 4 hours round trip to go fly in Dallas. It costs me roughly $50 per trip…I’ve flown almost every weekend since the beginning of May. I try not to think about how much money I’ve dumped to go get 5-7 flights and drive home

Yeah, I have the same problem at home. I have to drive to the field each time I fly. It adds up. I will have to fill that car up soon, but it has been two years since I put gas in it. And, it is also an autoclave!

[wwwarbird]

I drive 4 hours round trip to go fly in Dallas. It costs me roughly $50 per trip…I’ve flown almost every weekend since the beginning of May. I try not to think about how much money I’ve dumped to go get 5-7 flights and drive home

 4 hours of driving for $50? Sounds great right now to me, that's less than half of what it would cost me in the Ford Flex. What's your vehicle?

[Matt Colan]

4 hours of driving for $50? Sounds great right now to me, that's less than half of what it would cost me in the Ford Flex. What's your vehicle?

I drive a Ford Escape. I always start near a full tank, and then fill up at Bucees, roughly 2/3 the way home and that gets me enough gas to last until the next weekend. I have a side hustle and fill up at Bucees with my own funds to help offset it from the main bank account. My wife would probably kill me if I spent as much money as I have from

[Howard Rush]

At least you guys can drive to your flying fields. I have to walk.

[John Paris]

At least you guys can drive to your flying fields. I have to walk.

Howard,
You could drive to your field but it seems like an inefficient way of doing things with all the loading and unloading. 
John

[Perry Rose]

At least you guys can drive to your flying fields. I have to walk.

Now that's funny right there.

[fred cesquim]

gas prices increased a LOT worldwide, no  matter who´s sitting on the president chair. here in brazil we have a crazy one, he can do all kind of atrocities but still can´t make gas, so prices follows world crisis raise.
fortunately i live about 35 minuts form the field, it´s close considering how densly populated my city is.
i fly e-power at least i save on glow

[Teodorico Terry]

Interesting, one of the things that I like about C/L is that I do not have to drive to the field if I want to get a flight or two, generally the nearest baseball diamond will do. In my case I have 4 within a 2.0 mile radius from the house.  The nearest one is within 1 mile so I could walk if I were not embarrassed to be seen walking around the sub with a model airplane in tow. I fly electric so I can be quiet and not disturb people. The elementary school around the corner is getting renovated so none of the fields are currently being used but they are still mowed once a week.  Perfect set-up.  The proper C/L field is at our R/C club which is about 3 miles away, short drive once again. I know that I am lucky. We have a small group of C/L fliers and we get together every Wednesday at the field.

My parents live overseas and given their age my brother and I manage their household finances from here.  In the past year it has become quite apparent that in spite of a strong dollar (the exchange rate is in our favor right now) the usual monthly amount that we budget does not make it to the end of the month.  It falls short by about 15% so we have had to make adjustments. The price of 1 gallon of gas even with the favorable exchange rate is at $6.20. I am pretty sure that Brandon is not running Peru so I wonder where all of the inflation is coming from...

[Crist Rigotti]

At least you guys can drive to your flying fields. I have to walk.

This made me laugh out loud!

[Ken Culbertson]

This made me laugh out loud!

Obviously, they don't have to deal with local governments that ban everything that they don't do personally!

Ken

[BillLee]

Interesting, one of the things that I like about C/L is that I do not have to drive to the field if I want to get a flight or two, generally the nearest baseball diamond will do. In my case I have 4 within a 2.0 mile radius from the house.  The nearest one is within 1 mile so I could walk if I were not embarrassed to be seen walking around the sub with a model airplane in tow. I fly electric so I can be quiet and not disturb people. The elementary school around the corner is getting renovated so none of the fields are currently being used but they are still mowed once a week.  Perfect set-up.  The proper C/L field is at our R/C club which is about 3 miles away, short drive once again. I know that I am lucky. We have a small group of C/L fliers and we get together every Wednesday at the field.

My parents live overseas and given their age my brother and I manage their household finances from here.  In the past year it has become quite apparent that in spite of a strong dollar (the exchange rate is in our favor right now) the usual monthly amount that we budget does not make it to the end of the month.  It falls short by about 15% so we have had to make adjustments. The price of 1 gallon of gas even with the favorable exchange rate is at $6.20. I am pretty sure that Brandon is not running Peru so I wonder where all of the inflation is coming from...

Not sure where you live, but most school yards in the U.S. are off-limits for any kind of use not actually sponsored by the school itself. Where we used to be able to go to the local school yard and play ball or fly models or whatever, all that you find now are tall chain link fences. Too bad the crazies and other idiot s have ruined it for the majority.

[katana]

I am pretty sure that Brandon is not running Peru so I wonder where all of the inflation is coming from...

Haven't you heard - there's a war going on in Ukraine? And seeing as Russia is a major supplier of both Oil and Natural Gas to Europe, they have to source from elsewhere. And unless producers up their production, the increase in demand leads to shortages, (and why would they as oil was $20/barrel in 2020 - its £140+/barrel now with demand outstripping supply!) With shortages comes increased costs - which gets passed on to consumers in fuel costs, energy costs, food costs and general consumable costs. Then you have the worlds biggest producer of consumables - China - whose economy is tanking along with its workforce due to Covid - they can't make it due to energy supply problems and can't ship it either which gets us back to shortages and costs etc. This is the flaw in totally interconnected markets - one sneeze and the whole world catches a cold!

[John Rist]

it's all Bradon's fault.  He has cut back on US coal, oil, & natural gas production all in the name of the Green New Deal.  As stated these produce's are traded on the world market. Supply goes down world prices go up. Putin gets rich and goes to war.  When Trump was in office none of this happened.   

[Teodorico Terry]

Katana,

I was being cynical.  Many in the US seem to think that inflation and high gas prices are unique to the US when in reality they are not. Doing away with about 12% of the oil supply in a tight market is definitely going to have an effect.  In reality, the number is smaller as some countries will continue to buy oil and gas from Russia regardless but the effect will definitely felt.  What is unique is that inflation in the US is running about 1-1.5% higher when compared to that experienced by other developed countries and in that sense, the US is unique. However, the higher inflation in the US came about for reasons unrelated to the pandemic, supply chain issues and high demand.  It actually goes back to 2018.

Bill,

I actually ran into the grounds keeper at the park while flying and he actually took a break to watch me fly for a couple of minutes and took a closer look at the model. He did not say anything.  Regarding the school I believe you are probably right but the fields and playground are used on a regular basis for non school sponsored activities - you will see kids practice their batting skills, golfers improving their swing, an occasional pick-up soccer match, etc.

Teo

[Brett Buck]

Haven't you heard - there's a war going on in Ukraine? And seeing as Russia is a major supplier of both Oil and Natural Gas to Europe, they have to source from elsewhere. And unless producers up their production, the increase in demand leads to shortages, (and why would they as oil was $20/barrel in 2020 - its £140+/barrel now with demand outstripping supply!) With shortages comes increased costs - which gets passed on to consumers in fuel costs, energy costs, food costs and general consumable costs. Then you have the worlds biggest producer of consumables - China - whose economy is tanking along with its workforce due to Covid - they can't make it due to energy supply problems and can't ship it either which gets us back to shortages and costs etc. This is the flaw in totally interconnected markets - one sneeze and the whole world catches a cold!

  Yes, there is a war, started by Putin, in the Ukraine. Ultimately caused or encouraged by Europeans, again, who wanted to play both sides of the street, again (defense courtesy the US Taxpayer and cheap oil and gas from Russia) and thus left themselves wide open and beholden to a murderous psychopath bent on recreating the USSR. Well played.

    But, as recently as 2019, the US was a net exporter of oil. That's what Brandon did to cause this, because, now we are back at the mercy of OPEC - notably run by people who Joe and Company were also seemingly bent on offending until their recent change of heart, sending the notional leader of the free world, hat in hand, to the Oil Shieks asking for help.   Recently, he released oil from the strategic oil reserve - and sent some of it to China. To companies associated with his son - who also was in cahoots with the corrupt Ukraine government.

   Ultimately, of course, the more fundamental issue is implosion of the world economy by runway inflation, caused (as it always is) by irresponsible and profligate government spending and government meddling with the economy,  while we hysterically overreacted to Wuhan Flu. As accurately predicted 2+ years ago ( https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/virus-second-opion/msg582506/#msg582506 ). As also predicted, the "cure" was far more damaging than the disease.

     John Maynard Keynes (and the idiots who continue to pay attention to him despite the obvious evidence) have killed more people and created more misery than all the viruses combined.

      Brett

[john e. holliday]

Really how can we blame a so called president who has no brain for the problems we have.  I blame all current politicians who worry more about their pocket book than doing the job they are supposed to be doing.  If we had some one with enough guts to do it the top yier of currnet administration could be impeached or recalled for their actions.  And those no longer in charge who keep stepping in should have been behind federal bars or exiled from the country.  But, what country would let them in?  I'm just glad I didn't vote for any of them.

Now guys consider your selves lucky that you are allowed to drive.   

[Teodorico Terry]

A few things to keep in mind:

1) Yes, the US was net a exporter as Brett mentioned; however, that does not mean that we were energy independent when it came to oil.  Net implies that we exported more than we imported. What was left out is that US refineries are set-up to process certain grades of oil; they just cannot take whatever is available and hence why still imported oil in 2019..
2) Ramped up US production to 2019 levels would not make up for the loss of Russian oil; production would have to be much higher. So global prices will remain mostly unchanged.
3) If production were ramped that additional oil would be sold for the best price possible, not simply to the benefit of keeping prices low in the US.  After all, that is what companies normally do. It would lower the cost of gas but probably not as much as people would like.

I agree that the sale of some of the reserves to other countries creates really bad optics, but I have not found enough information regarding the motivation for such action one way or the other. Just on looks it was a bad idea and it makes me mad to see how dumb politicians tend to be.  However, implied in the responses is that the president can do as he pleases which is not the case.

[Paul Taylor]

At least you guys can drive to your flying fields. I have
 to walk.

Up hill both ways and barefoot. 🤣🤣🤣

Sound like one of my grandpa stories.

[katana]

  Yes, there is a war, started by Putin, in the Ukraine. Ultimately caused or encouraged by Europeans, again, who wanted to play both sides of the street, again (defense courtesy the US Taxpayer and cheap oil and gas from Russia) and thus left themselves wide open and beholden to a murderous psychopath bent on recreating the USSR. Well played.

Nice summary except NATO isn't Europe and NATO is doing its damnedest to stay out of it or do you really want WW3 in Europe? And as for US paid for Defence - the US chose to be present in Europe after WW2 and develop NATO, maybe to aggravate the Ruskies - I don't know! And don't forget Ukraine ISN'T in NATO - if they were, the megalomaniac may have thought twice about the invasion. Also, considering our size compared to the US., the UK is holding its own in providing weaponry and skills training to Ukraine, so don't lump us in with the white flag waving froggies etc. I'm also glad you believe we are getting 'cheap' oil and gas from Russia - they are commodities and as such traded worldwide - the wholesale costs are broadly the same worldwide, only disruption of supply generally affects price's. They were a source just like the North Sea and Norway's supplies but in greater volumes and readily available or should we have built a trans Atlantic pipeline, 3500 miles for US. natural gas? Europe will ween itself off Russian fuels but it can't happen over-night and Asia may pick up some of Russian production but there will be excess production that can't be sold and that will eventually hurt Russia more than sanctioning a few Billionaires with big houses and yacht's!

[wwwarbird]

Howard,
You could drive to your field but it seems like an inefficient way of doing things with all the loading and unloading. 
John

 

[wwwarbird]

 A lot of us knew it long before 2020, Biden's a total moron. We also knew that if given the seat he'd destroy America as we know it. Now, we're being forced to live it. Anyone who can't see it is no better, period. Yes, I'm pissed off, and very tired of waking up each day feeling that way all because of the jackass flushing our once great country and it's core values down the toilet. 

[Ken Culbertson]

A lot of us knew it long before 2020, Biden's a total moron. We also knew that if given the seat he'd destroy America as we know it. Now, we're being forced to live it. Anyone who can't see it is no better, period. Yes, I'm pissed off, and very tired of waking up each day feeling that way all because of the jackass flushing our once great country and it's core values down the toilet. 

I agree 100% except I think it is the jackass behind the jackass.  We survived Carter but we don't really have a Regan to pull us out.

ken 

[John Rist]

I agree 100% except I think it is the jackass behind the jackass.  We survived Carter but we don't really have a Regan to pull us out.

ken

Trump may be a jackass but he can and will pull us out if reelected.  His polices worked and will work again. 

[John Gluth]

I agree 100% except I think it is the jackass behind the jackass.  We survived Carter but we don't really have a Regan to pull us out.

ken

Not as good as a total moron, because the "Jackass" is in fact the front man. I'm weary of excuses for what is being done DELIBERATELY!
John

[bill bischoff]

Check the politics at the door and be thankful if you have access to a nice flying site. It's not a given.

[Dwayne Donnelly]

Check the politics at the door and be thankful if you have access to a nice flying site. It's not a given.

Actually there's a place here for extra content, politics etc. and it's called...
https://stunthanger.com/smf/test-board/

[Motorman]

I'm halfway between NY and DC. Thinking of moving to a flyover state to avoid nuclear fallout.

 

[Dick Byron]

That is missing or off limits now.

[wwwarbird]

...be thankful if you have access to a nice flying site. It's not a given.

 Yeah, just think of all the old schoolyards and other places we all used to fly at and aren't allowed to anymore. Bottom line there is that most of those were taken away as a final result of some sort of local politics. Wherever it may be today, you'd better get out there while you can.

 And to the thread topic, the Flex was very near empty when I left work tonight. I stopped on the way home and filled up, then drove away 85 DOLLARS poorer. 

[phil c]

Interesting, one of the things that I like about C/L is that I do not have to drive to the field if I want to get a flight or two, generally the nearest baseball diamond will do. In my case I have 4 within a 2.0 mile radius from the house.  The nearest one is within 1 mile so I could walk if I were not embarrassed to be seen walking around the sub with a model airplane in tow. I fly electric so I can be quiet and not disturb people. The elementary school around the corner is getting renovated so none of the fields are currently being used but they are still mowed once a week.  Perfect set-up.  The proper C/L field is at our R/C club which is about 3 miles away, short drive once again. I know that I am lucky. We have a small group of C/L fliers and we get together every Wednesday at the field.


As best I can figure fromvarious sites on the web the gasoline shortage, or cutback was planned to make it expensive.  This was all part of the scheme to appear to be doing something(of questionable utility) and pretend they were "stopping climate change".  Hah!

Phil Cartier
My parents live overseas and given their age my brother and I manage their household finances from here.  In the past year it has become quite apparent that in spite of a strong dollar (the exchange rate is in our favor right now) the usual monthly amount that we budget does not make it to the end of the month.  It falls short by about 15% so we have had to make adjustments. The price of 1 gallon of gas even with the favorable exchange rate is at $6.20. I am pretty sure that Brandon is not running Peru so I wonder where all of the inflation is coming from...

[Teodorico Terry]

Phil,

I doubt that there is a conspiracy to limit the supply of gas to the US market, the government does not get to dictate what how much of a particular product they can make.  In spite of low inventories, 2021 was a good year for automakers; given fewer chips they opted to put them on their high margin (i.e. not cheap) vehicles and they simply could not make enough of them. Given the current situation I would venture to say that oil companies are quite pleased with their margins and the status quo.

Regarding global warming and electrics, most auto companies are jumping into electric vehicles with both feet even though the infrastructure is really not in place (power generation and distribution) to support the amount of energy that it takes us to get around. This is in-spite of the fact that under Trump auto emission standards were relaxed. Maybe they are making a mistake or maybe they see the future differently than most. As a side note, I also fly R/C pattern (AMA - Advanced) and the conversion to electric within that community is very high; I do not remember the last time I saw a glow powered (typically YS-170 or derivative) pattern plane at a contest. Within C/L electric still seems to be somewhat of a novelty still (say penetration around 50%) and I don't really understand why, it is so easy and reliable. Maybe as a population we tend to be more conservative or technology adverse. Anyway...

Even after the clean power plan act was repealed in 2019 there wasn't a rush to go back to coal. Cheap or less expensive natural gas is the enemy of coal and the transition was already happening on its own: It is easier to deal with; no need for a dedicated rail line, burns cleaner, etc.  Again, companies respond to government regulation while also keeping an eye on their bottom line. Adjusted for inflation the price of electricity in the US has remained relatively flat in the past 20 years. The flip side is that for many, unfortunately, their income has not be adjusted for inflation but that is a different problem.

[Jim Svitko]

If you want to know where all the inflation is coming from, you can put most of the blame on the Federal Reserve.  The Fed has printed a few trillion over the last few years, trying to create wealth out of thin air.  This never works.  The result is a decrease in buying power of the money we have in our wallets and bank accounts.  This is inflation.  So much funny money out there that prices rise to match the money supply.

The Fed is not alone here.  Other central banks have done the same thing.  The result is that the world is awash with cash and prices will go up accordingly.

And, both sides are to blame.  This money printing might go all the way back to Bush II and the last market crash.  And, remember, Trump had to have his name on the stimulus checks.  Biden opened the cash spigots with his big spending plans.

Sure, you can put some blame on other factors, such as supply chain, covid, Putin, etc.  And, there are always greedy opportunists to take advantage of a situation.  But the fact remains that flooding the country with printed cash, and with nothing (no gold, silver, etc.) to back up that cash, the result was inevitable.  And, not one time have I heard anyone in the media call out the Fed about this.  Everyone blames those other factors but conveniently ignore the fact that the trillions in cash that have been printed have been the primary cause of inflation.

Whenever I see clips of morons like Jerome Powell try to explain the Fed's failures to keep things under control, I get nauseated.

[SteveMoon]

You can't sell electric cars with gas at $2.00/gallon. The price of oil/gas has been
manipulated purposely to force a future with electric vehicles upon us. Rather than
being allowed to choose what type of vehicle we would like to drive we will be
forced to go electric. In essence, the Green New Deal is being imposed on us without
it actually becoming law.

Steve

[John Gluth]

Sure, let’s separate Brandon’s poll numbers and $25-$50 “Gas to the flying field”, from politics. And to think I complained when gas @ $2.779 field traveling was $19!

[John Carrodus]

From Downunder Kiwi land NZ, I've been wondering how long it would be before politics came up on this website. A bit like a fart in the room nobody wants to admit to. Our PM Jacinda Ardern, shortly after being elected curtailed new oil exploration in our oil and gas rich Taranaki and other identified future fields. As leader of the NZ Labour Party she has historical links to international socialism and relies heavily on and actively promotes the Green Party for support. Much of the press ( especially overseas) and polling agencies promote her. We have recently shut down our one and only oil refinery ( for whatever reason) and now import 180million tonnes of crap quality brown coal from Indonesia annually to produce power ( having jumped through hoops to please outside interests in the name of Climate Change to shut our own miners down ) and despite having our own enormous reserves of quality coal. Our National Grid is approximately 80% renewable, mainly hydro. Wind and solar are dead ducks. I drive a V8 LS2 Holden SS ( Imported from Aussie and known to you guys as the Chevy something or another) On balance my V8 uses bugger all gas all round, depending how you drive it and on long hauls I get 8.2 L / 100 km easily. My son has just purchased a coal fired Tesla and god knows how many trees were felled, wastelands produced or kids died in slave like conditions in various parts of the world digging for battery rare metals?

The speed with which this tsunami of change has hit the world is no accident. The perfect storm is the most effective method to set your enemy ( read - status quo) off balance. The New World Order has one goal, you will have (end up with) nothing and be happy. We will wear hemp shirts, eat crispy dried crickets and stay indoors and wear masks while the rich dudes fly in jets, eat meat and generally live the life of Harry. To achieve these ends first control the masses (tick) control the press( tick) Burn the books (tick). We now have a world of folk who are told what to do, what to think, but have been denied the wherewithall on HOW to think.( Big tick)

The vehicle, the Quasi Religious New world Order - I call it the Woke, Broke, Croak future.
Think it's bad now? I'd make the most of today, seize it in both hands and run like hell. Gas could well never be cheaper, and very soon the least of our worries.

Politicians have three goals. Get your money, spend your money and repeat as often as possible. Add this to the truth being held up in many forms to confuse the masses, the only way for the US and the rest of us to lift ourselves above all this sewage is to quietly and firmly hold fast to our time tested and proven traditions. Embrace them and hang on for dear life.- IMHO.

[Rusty]

Katana, what happens world wide did not used to affect America regarding gas and oil.  We were energy independent and sold some to other countries to boot.  Certain politicians in America reversed the policies making us energy independent and that is why we are in the same boat as most other countries. 

[Craig Beswick]

To John Carrodus,
don't hold back brother tell us what you really feel.
Bahahahaha 🤣 🤣 🤣.

You are the only person on the planet getting 8 litres per 100km out of an LS2 mate. "Depends how you drive it". You drive it HARD!!!!!!!

All the best
Craig.
Ps Jacinda was elected on a platform of fuel price reduction. Hmmmm.....

[frank williams]

Well ….. aside from reversing policies that were working well and had been “no brainers for years” (ANWAR, Keystone, border wall, offshore leasing, fracking) , Brandon’s mere presence as leader of the free world, was enough to allow the bad actors in the world to feel emboldened.

. …….. What really frosts me the most, is that the World is being lead over the cliff by AGW (manmade global warming) brainless idiots.  Once again this can be focused to a single principal messiah.
 
The author of the “Hockey Stick”,  the history of earths recent temperatures, knows himself, that the results of his paper are a hoax.  It would be so simple for media to enlighten the world onto the fact that this Mann never showed exactly how the math was done to get the answer that he did.   He has sued when called a hoaxter and has lost in court because he wouldn’t show his work. 

Like I said, the world is being led over the cliff, based on a fraud, and it would be easy to expose it for what it is, if the media only would.

[Teodorico Terry]

Air master,

The US was a NET exporter which many people take to mean energy independent.  That is not the case. NET simply means that we sold more than what we bought; the question is, why did why have to buy other people's oil in the first place? Once you consider what our refineries can process and produce you will see that we were never independent in the true sense of the word.  As a result, we are not immune from what happens outside our borders when it comes to oil....

[Ken Culbertson]

Air master,

The US was a NET exporter which many people take to mean energy independent.  That is not the case. NET simply means that we sold more than what we bought; the question is, why did why have to buy other people's oil in the first place? Once you consider what our refineries can process and produce you will see that we were never independent in the true sense of the word.  As a result, we are not immune from what happens outside our borders when it comes to oil....

If you produce more than you buy you are independent because you can always produce for use instead.  Oli is produced for the world market everywhere.  Independence does not mean that you are buying only domestic oil, it means that you can if you need to.

Ken

[Wayne Collier]

Even after the clean power plan act was repealed in 2019 there wasn't a rush to go back to coal. Cheap or less expensive natural gas is the enemy of coal and the transition was already happening on its own: It is easier to deal with; no need for a dedicated rail line, burns cleaner, etc.  Again, companies respond to government regulation while also keeping an eye on their bottom line. Adjusted for inflation the price of electricity in the US has remained relatively flat in the past 20 years. The flip side is that for many, unfortunately, their income has not be adjusted for inflation but that is a different problem.

If income were adjusted for inflation, there wouldn’t really be inflation. If everything goes up even with no net change in buying power, there is no real inflation even if the numbers on paper are higher. As one local guy put it, you go by how many hours of work it takes to buy a steak or a gallon of gas, etc.

Once a coal fired power plant shuts down it is not a simple thing to restart. Millions of dollars of investment to restart on top of the millions it took to shut down.  This not taking into account any cost associated with cutting back coal production and transportation. No one is going to rush into that unless there’s a reasonable chance of a reasonable return on investment before having to shut down again. Hence, invest in natural gas power plants as a “safety strategy” in case regulators shut down coal again.

I like clean air, but I still believe we could have gotten there without the strain on the economy that we are currently enduring.

[katana]

If income were adjusted for inflation, there wouldn’t really be inflation. If everything goes up even with no net change in buying power, there is no real inflation even if the numbers on paper are higher. As one local guy put it, you go by how many hours of work it takes to buy a steak or a gallon of gas, etc.

Nice idea - it just doesn't work. Everything is interconnected - workforce / business / manufacturer's or producers, so if one of those gets out of kilter, you get into an inflationary spiral upwards. If 'stuff' starts getting in short supply, the rarity necessitates increased costs for suppliers (to maintain their margins), these costs get passed down to consumers, who, as workers demand pay increases to afford the higher cost of living. If these demands are granted, then employers must pass them along to their end consumers and the spiral continues and in some cases expands!

Its a flaw in a capitalist economy where there is always someone out to make more money than the other guy or more money than constitutes a reasonable profit & used for expansion, would necessitate. How many bosses of huge corporations that regularly post massive yearly losses, take multi million dollar pay checks, then get multi million dollar 'golden handshakes' to be replaced by a new guy on a multi million salary - because its the market 'going rate for the job' and does equally as badly! Common sense says fire a bad worker - CEO or not and hire someone cheaper as they can't do any worse or pay based on performance targets. Globally linked economies just don't work IMO - the well off will always exploit the less well off and its guaranteed there will be profiteering middlemen doing the exploiting whilst pandering to the rich!

Look at the USA - a huge country, big population but moderately low density of people / land, huge natural resource surpluses - land, minerals, fuels etc. that the country could & should be self sufficient in everything it needs, but it has the worlds largest debt burden at over $30 Trillion (77% of GDP) because people want more / better / cheaper and that means outsourcing instead of reining in spending until you can afford it and buying domestically produced.
I'm turning this into an economics debate which is never healthy!

[Teodorico Terry]

Ken,

You missed the point I was trying to make.  If you cannot refine what you produce or if your refining capacity cannot satisfy your needs thus forcing you to partially rely on imports you are not independent.  What do you think would happen if we stopped importing?

Wayne and Katana,

I get what you are saying and this why at the end I said "but that is a different problem", for many, the purchasing power of their earnings has not kept pace with inflation.