Fuel sourcing

[Dan Berry]

Acquiring fuel has been an issue for me and I'm guessing there are others guys with similar frustrations.
I was resigned to having to mix my own fuel and I contacted the speed shop in Little Rock where I knew that I could purchase methanol since I know some sprint car guys who run methanol. While talking with the guy to determine what hoops I would need to jump through to obtain nitromethane--- assume tiny hoops with flaming hooks attached----. Well, actually not so. A 50/50 can of nitro/methanol is 135$ for a five gallon container. Anyway, during the conversation he mentioned getting stuff from VP.

My ears perked up! Whoa! " You can get stuff from VP?"
Every four weeks, he said.

Short story long... I just picked up a case-6gallons- of GMA 10/22 at 20bucks a gallon. No shipping.

If you need fuel, find a speed shop.

You fellas in LA -Lower Arkansas- let me know if you need fuel. The next truck arrives in 4 weeks. I could bring it in November or maybe sooner if I get a chance to come down for some coaching.

[Dan McEntee]

   Now that is an angle on things that I might never would have thought of and makes perfect sense! Even if there are no hobby shops in town there are speed shop every where!  Heck, maybe even a local auto parts store can order from VP in the same manor, meaning on a monthly basis and in case lots only. Definitely worth it for some guys to look into.
  Type at you later,
   Dan

[Paul Taylor]

That's good to know. Thanks Dan.

[Dan Berry]

There is no longer a hobby shop in Little Rock.
There used to be a HobbyTown USA or something. He was not interested in ordering fuel for me.
The guy at the speed shop said he stock it if there was a market for him.
I'm thinking that when he mentioned VP he was talking about when he kept fuel for the chainsaw guys at the lumberjack competitions.

[Dan Berry]

He cannot sell me nitro.
There are a lot of restrictions in place regarding nitro. I found out a big reason for the restrictions.
Anyone remember Tim McVeigh? He used three drums of it.

[Jim Svitko]

I have been buying my nitro from a local guy who supplies fuel to area race tracks and auto parts shops.  At first, cash sales were OK with him but now it has to be a check or credit card in order to track sales.

[Gerald Arana]

I hate to sound ignorant, but what/who is "VP"?   

Thanks, Jerry

[Fredvon4]

I just looked at the "About Us" on the VP web site and did not see what VP actually stands for

I asked years ago at the Ennis Texas drag strip what the fuel was they were using...burned my eyes badly....something I did not notice as much when I drag raced back in the 70s

The guy said VP... I asked what VP stood for...he said Bob Glidden was an early tester of the fuel and had called it "Very Powerful" and the MFG  adopted the VP logo

This is an anecdotal 1995 story...

BTW
I get my Nitro and Methanol from E-Bay Torco .... they say free shipping....but I suspect at $53 per gallon of Nitro, or $23 for methanol they just factor the Haz Mat into the price...stuff come UPS ground across many state lines

Tens of thousands of racers use Methanol and Nitro-methane fuels....I doubt there is any real Tim McVeigh issues or a whole lot of speed shops would have a hard time justifying the stockage levels I have personally observed (like 10 55 gallon drums)

In my local area there is Nitro and methanol but only 30~55 gal drums...no one will decant 2 or 3 gallons for me to buy....mostly because they don't want to back fill with dry nitrogen or whatever on a open drum...they sell whole drums only to the local racers

I sport fly about 2~2.5 gallons a year
Here in Texas I can easily get Riche's Brew and for my Cox stuff the Sig Champion Quarts is good enough

One of these days I will actually remember, when traveling, to stop into one of the larger hobby shops for a gallon of GMA 10/22 as I want to try it in several of my engines

[Dan Berry]

Yet you can buy gasoline all day long, go figure.

I mentioned that to him. He smiled and said "you and I know that, lawmakers are idiots".

[Dan McEntee]

He cannot sell me nitro.
There are a lot of restrictions in place regarding nitro. I found out a big reason for the restrictions.
Anyone remember Tim McVeigh ? He used three drums of it.

   I thought the bomb he cooked up was mainly fertilizer (ammonia nitrate) and kerosene or diesel fuel?  There is an old episode if I Spy where Bill Cosby and Robert Culp escaped from the clutches of the bad guys when locked up in a shed by using the same ingredients. I don't think he needed nitro-methane. That was a sad day, one of those events where you remember where you were and what you were doing when you heard the news.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
   

[Dan Berry]

   I thought the bomb he cooked up was mainly fertilizer (ammonia nitrate) and kerosene or diesel fuel?  There is an old episode if I Spy where Bill Cosby and Robert Culp escaped from the clutches of the bad guys when locked up in a shed by using the same ingredients. I don't think he needed nitro-methane. That was a sad day, one of those events where you remember where you were and what you were doing when you heard the news.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
 

I know that diesel and ammonium nitrate will explode. He told me that they had 3 barrels of nitromethane in the van. I'm assuming in addition to the AmFo.

I am very happy that I don't need to mix my own fuel and can get what I need reasonably. 20$ / gallon might not be the best price but I wouldn't expect to find it anywhere for less than 16/gal.

[Dan McEntee]

I know that diesel and ammonium nitrate will explode. He told me that they had 3 barrels of nitromethane in the van. I'm assuming in addition to the AmFo.

I am very happy that I don't need to mix my own fuel and can get what I need reasonably. 20$ / gallon might not be the best price but I wouldn't expect to find it anywhere for less than 16/gal.

    I think 20 bucks a gallon for consistent, good quality fuel is a decent price in this day and age. I'm glad that VP pick up the Powermaster line.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[kenneth cook]

                 Dan, us flyers up here in the northeast haven't seen Powermaster priced at $20 for probably 6 years. It's been going up and up and now our supplier is suggesting raising it even more. The last gallon I purchased this past 4th of July was $24. I typically buy it by the case and that indeed lowers the cost but it certainly has been on the rise. I know one of the fellows in our club who mixes his own fuel uses a Klotz product which is just a percentage of methanol and nitro. I believe the percentages are on the can and he adjusts what he requires and adds oil. I remember the day he forgot to add the oil and we were both pretty shocked that nothing happened.

[Dan Berry]

I bought the case at 20/gallon. The VP truck delivers every four weeks. I don't think that he's added anything for shipping, he is already getting a shipment.

[Will Hinton]

if you have access to Riches Brew, Randy will custom mix it for you.  I've used nothing but since 1994.

[Skip Chernoff]

 I've been mixing my own fuels since the early 1970s. There is no "black magic" magic involved. It's simple math. Getting your  supplies is not that difficult either ,unless you live in some very out of the way place. Methanol can be obtained anywhere they race "circle track cars" or thru a speed shops that sells VP products.It's called M-1. I paid $38 for 5 gallons of VP a week ago. Nitro can be bought from Torco for $54/gallon to your door. I buy my Klotz castor oil and synthetic oil from a local motorcycle shop that services dirt bikes. It's usually sold for about $10 a quart. Mixing your own fuel will probably cost you more than buying commercially available fuel,but you can mix it like you want it,and know it's right. If you can't do this, then I can suggest the VP Power Master,it's very good fuel.
 

[Steve Helmick]

VP owns both the Powermaster and Wildcat brands, and apparently still produces both. I preferred Powermaster, because it was clear, except for their green crap, and later, the short-lived purple crap that got some notoriety with the painters among us. I never bought any of the purple stuff, but have a gallon of the green that I've considered mixing with some extra Klotz to see if it would be usable.

The Wildcat I've used was always red, but Wildcat had a standard blend and a Premium blend, which had some castor oil...we assumed that the 18% oil was mixed with the 80-20 Klotz "Super Techniplate". Not certain that's a valid assumption, tho.  Steve   

[Dan Berry]

VP owns both the Powermaster and Wildcat brands, and apparently still produces both. I preferred Powermaster, because it was clear, except for their green crap, and later, the short-lived purple crap that got some notoriety with the painters among us. I never bought any of the purple stuff, but have a gallon of the green that I've considered mixing with some extra Klotz to see if it would be usable.

The Wildcat I've used was always red, but Wildcat had a standard blend and a Premium blend, which had some castor oil...we assumed that the 18% oil was mixed with the 80-20 Klotz "Super Techniplate". Not certain that's a valid assumption, tho.  Steve   

I'm guessing that they dropped the dye. What I got is clear.

[Skip Chernoff]

Most of the Philly guys use Power Master. I prefer to mix my own. For me S&W might be a good source for raw materials.

[Steve Helmick]

Dan, do you mean Powermaster? Yes, after the purple dye showed signs of tinting a bunch of painted stunt models, and receiving complaints, VP dropped the dye. Nobody around here that used Wildcat complained about their red dye, at least not that I heard. Maybe a different type of dye?

I really don't see why they'd pay 1 cent for dye if they didn't have to. I figured it came with Klotz oil Wildcat used. I recall that somebody local had two different batches of VP Powermaster, and one was very pale purple, while another gallon was noticeably darker purple. I'd imagine a very tiny amount of dye is needed, so difficult to accurately measure. I'm betting that they're happy not to add it. Dyes are typically nasty compounds anyway, either from a pollutant or poisonous view. GMA said that Aniline dyes are very poisonous, anyway, and red dye was said to be one of the reasons Esaki tissue & silk got expensive and difficult to obtain.     Steve 

[Lyle Spiegel]

How does S&W compare to Powermaster GMA?  I can drive to S&W and they will mix same 10-22 mix or even 10-29 Caster oil for my Fox engines.
Not sure if each using same synthetic oil.

[Brett Buck]

Dan, do you mean Powermaster? Yes, after the purple dye showed signs of tinting a bunch of painted stunt models, and receiving complaints, VP dropped the dye. Nobody around here that used Wildcat complained about their red dye, at least not that I heard. Maybe a different type of dye?

I really don't see why they'd pay 1 cent for dye if they didn't have to. I figured it came with Klotz oil Wildcat used.

    The purple dye was intentional, according to their model fuel guy. They added it because "people requested it" for some reason, and they tested it and found it didn't stain Monokote, so good to go. I got a batch right before some NATS that was special-made and it was/is water-clear.

     FHS/Red Max also stained airplanes and I always asked for "no red dye" to be added. It was still reddish but not nearly as red as if the dye was added and didn't stain either dope or conventional car paint clear to any detectable degree. They were/are still people I wouldn't do business with any more. I figured the residual red came in the oil from the factory (which, despite their claims, they didn't make themselves and was apparently available everywhere.

    SIG is also dye-infused, the more nitro, the darker the red, which suggests it might be in the nitro itself, or possible intentionally added for ID purposes.

     Brett