Fuel component costs

[BillLee]

I am preparing the Fuel Order Form for the World Champs and two fuel components that we must offer are methanol and nitromethane.

Does anybody have current princes for these? Sources?

Thanks.

Regards,

Bill

[Dave_Trible]

Bill you can get this stuff from someone down your way-Hyperfuels.  Right now the nitro is $83.75 a gallon.   Methanol 5 gallon $ 71.10  .  I actually get my methanol from a local chemical repackaging company in town for a little less and i go get it myself so no shipping charges.   They sell most of it to cleaning companies for window washing etc.  You might check that out locally.  Torco is another source for nitro but haven't priced it from them lately.

Dave

[BillLee]

Thanks, Dave, that helps a lot.

Bill

[Dave_Trible]

You didn't ask but if you also need oils I have been getting castor from (on line)  Wholesale Supplies Plus.  Their brand Crafters Choice $35.95 gal.  I get red Super Technoplate on Amazon for $ 62.99 gal.....

Dave

[Will Hinton]

Bill, If it were me I would give Randy Rich a call to see what he might be able to do for you.

[Steve Dwyer]

Try Stan at S-W fuels.

sales@s-whobby.com

[Paul Wescott]

Bill - This stuff is like gasoline for your car in that you may not know what the price is until you get to the station.  Here are some numbers

Methanol:
You can buy from local-to-you race shops or bio diesel shops for $5-$7/gallon in bulk if you bring your own legitimate containers.

If you don’t have enough 5 gal Jerry Cans it is available (at my local shop) in disposable 5 gallon cans (drums?) for $60/can +/-.

$18/gallon in 1 gallon plastic jugs from Amazon.


Nitromethane
Hyperfuels.com: $84/gallon, $36/quart, or $2620 for a 53 gallon drum ($200 delivery fee, cannot be sent USPS/UPS/Fedex so ORDER EARLY)
Torconitro.com: $98/gallon (free shipping)

I don’t know that it’s useful for what you are doing, but my local fuel shop sells a 5 gallon drum of 50% methanol and 50% nitro ($185 last time I checked).  This can be thinned with straight methanol and oil of course, to reduce the nitro content, and is a cheap and easy way for local flyers to get Nitro since they’re going to need the methanol anyway.  It does require a simple spreadsheet to figure out mix ratios to get the end result you want.

Hope some of this helps.

[Brian Hampton]

I am preparing the Fuel Order Form for the World Champs.......

I don't envy you that job but I'd think the first thing you'd have to do would be to read the FAI rules regarding fuel requirements for each applicable event. I'm not up to date on the regs but essentially fuel must be supplied by the organisers for CL speed, pylon racing and free flight power. These are all straight methanol/oil (castor). I believe CL combat allows for 10% nitro. These fuels are provided free in all actual competitions but can be bought from the organisers for any practise flying. For all other events (for instance F2B or CL stunt) it's use what ever you bring with you. So essentially you only need to provide fuel for 4 events. The rules most likely specify the purity of each ingredient (methanol, oil and nitro) as well. The guesswork for quantities needed will depend on the potential number of entrants for each event, the number of competition flights allowed and fuel useage for each competition flight. Then add a WAG at how many practise flights may be wanted. If it was me I'd take that final guess and multiply it by 5 or 10 to be on the safe side . AFAIK there's no requirement for fuel to be mixed long before the competitions start so I'd mix early each day from bulk and when competitions finish sell off all the remainders at cost or whatever.

[Matt Colan]

I buy methanol from a local race shop for $5 a gallon. It’s been a while since I bought nitro but I think I paid $55 for it

[Paul Smith]

Bill, If it were me I would give Randy Rich a call to see what he might be able to do for you.

I agree.  It is impossible for a one-time fuel mixer to beat the price paid by a huge bulk manufacturer. 
Even with Randy's well-earned profit you won't beat his deals.

OK, spelling corrected. In have learned that corrections do not transfer to copies.

[Steve Helmick]

I agree.  It is impossible for a one-time fuel mixer to beat the price paid by a huge bulk manufacturer. 
Even with Randy's well-earned profit you won't bear his deals.

Bear or beat?

I don't know who is actually paying the tab, but wouldn't it be AMA? They charged me enough for dues this year that I don't care if they get overcharged, because I sure did. And my AMA license isn't even good enough for flying in my almost local Canadian flying site.  Steve

[Paul Smith]

I am of the thinking that fuel costs at the world cup and world championship will pass through to the contestants with no use of AMA dues revenue.

It is good that the organizer is hunting for the lowest price.  F2d uses up a lot fuel. F2a uses a minimal amount of cheap fuel.  F2b & F2c are the contestant's problem.

[mike londke]

Methanol from my local speed shop is currently $6 a gallon....

[Reptoid]

Bill;
   You're not getting all the "supplied" fuel from Randy? He always supplies fuel for the Nats; F2D, Pylon, etc. If you are, he can provide Methanol and Nitro (and oil if needed) There are no "cheap" sources anymore and I'm sure he's as fair as any.

[bill bischoff]

F2A and F2D use supplied fuel, but the organizers also supply ingredients for mixing fuel for F2B and F2C. That way, contestants don't have to contend with transporting fuel or ingredients. What I don't know is how many watts are in a liter of electricity.

[Dave Rigotti]

Sorry Bill...I don't do metric......

F2A and F2D use supplied fuel, but the organizers also supply ingredients for mixing fuel for F2B and F2C. That way, contestants don't have to contend with transporting fuel or ingredients. What I don't know is how many watts are in a liter of electricity.

[BillLee]

Bear or beat?

I don't know who is actually paying the tab, but wouldn't it be AMA? They charged me enough for dues this year that I don't care if they get overcharged, because I sure did. And my AMA license isn't even good enough for flying in my almost local Canadian flying site.  Steve

AMA is providing the site and a little help with local arrangements. AMA has NO financial involvement in the actual running of the event. Yes, they support the F2 team, but that is a totally different ball game then actually running the event.

Fuel for F2A and F2D is supplied by the contest: us. F2D will be by Randy, NASS is supplying the fuel for F2A.  But all of the components that are needed for F2C as well as any needed for other use, such as F2B, must be offered to the competitors who must pay for what they want. It is that list of components that I am assembling right now and where I need to have a price to charge for nitro and methanol.

Each team will submit a list of needed components and quantities, pay money, and we (the organizers) will have it for them when they arrive in Muncie.

Bill

[Dave Rigotti]

Thanks Bill!
Clear and concise!

[Dan McEntee]

   It sounds like you have pretty much everything lined out except for the separate components?  The regional office for VP Fuels is in Terra Haute, Indiana, just right down the road. They offer a 5-/50 nitro/methanol product that had been mentioned here before when discussions come up about mixing your own fuel. It might be worth contacting them to see if they can offer materials at some sort of discount as a way of sponsoring the event? I know it pays to shop around. I was looking for a local VP Fuels dealer that might keep this 50/50 product in stock or could reliably order it in in a timely manor when needed. The 50/50 fuel mix retails for $179 but I found it significantly cheaper by contacting the regional office in Terre Haute and asked about local dealers, and he gave me the number for a home heating oil company about an hour south of me. They offered me the 50/50 fuel mix, ( which they said they stock) for $153.12 for the 5 gallon can, I think it was and their methanol was 4.50 a gallon and you provide your own container.. The other shops I checked for the 50/50 mix were all at full retail on it and needed to order it in with a 2 week lead time minimum. Other shops in the area ranged from $6 to $8.50 a gallon for methanol. I would think with Muncie being in the middle of farm country, prices for methanol might be more moderate at some of the "mom and pop" stores and that the 50/50 mix would simplify the process some. The only component I didn't check on was oil, as I had accumulated a big supply of Klotz and castor oil over the years and really didn't need to buy any at this point in time. The close proximity to Indy and or VP Fuels in Terre Haute and the racing activities near those may  yield some good prospects for getting the best price you can

    Good luck with everything,
    Dan McEntee

[Paul Wescott]

he gave me the number for a home heating oil company about an hour south of me. They offered me the 50/50 fuel mix, ( which they said they stock) for $153.12 for the 5 gallon can…

What on earth does a residential heating oil company need Nitro/Methanol for?  I hope they have a race team because accidentally mixing that stuff into their heating oil could be bad.  Unless it’s their own home brew anti-gelling anti-microbial etc additive.