Forum realities

[Avaiojet]

Great Posts.

Can't forget those jealous individuals who keep proving themselves to be trolls. Seems they can't stop behave like jealous school yard kids.

Or old ladies.

Unfortunately every Forum has them.

Charles

[Bill Morell]

Great Posts.

Can't forget those jealous individuals who keep proving themselves to be trolls. Seems they can't stop behave like jealous school yard kids.

Or old ladies.

Unfortunately every Forum has them.

Charles

Well they were great posts and fun to read until this crap.

[Steve Helmick]

Speaking of light bulbs...this morning, I had to replace the first of my first purchase of LED lightbulbs. I had been curious about how long they would last, on a "Lifetime" warranty (5 years for commercial settings, but "Lifetime" for residential). Actually lasted two years and just over two weeks. "Disappointed am I", as Yoda would say.

For full disclosure, I only bought these LED bulbs because they were made in Thailand, and not China, according to the packaging. Very small print. When I bought them, I installed them in various places around the house as incandescent bulbs passed on, kept the packaging, and put in a Post-It note with the date of installation and location. I'm not sure how long a cheaper incandescent bulb would have lasted, but perhaps 1/4 to 1/2 as long? Certainly, I saved a bunch of electrons, so they could be sent for a new life in California running an A/C or filtering a swimming pool.

I'm not sure whether I should be PO'd or not, but the URL for the website (www.switchlightingco.com) doesn't currently load. I suspect the bulbs were really made in China, the Thailand origin is bogus, and  the website and "company" are long gone.

Further, as a retired machinist, I removed and installed the new (LED) bulb all by myself. I did turn off the switch.    Steve

[Mark Scarborough]

Great Posts.

Can't forget those jealous individuals who keep proving themselves to be trolls. Seems they can't stop behave like jealous school yard kids.

Or old ladies.

Unfortunately every Forum has them.

Charles

you mean the guy who goes whining to RObert because he got his feelings hurt, ,that guy,
 nope you mean me dont you? the guy you whined to Robert about? Or maybe Brett who selflessly shares his hard earned knowledge and you try to discredit?
CHarles, get over yourself bud, I have tried to be positive with you until the last stunt, now the gloves are off buddy,,
Have a nice day CHarles,,
 Back to the fun nature of this thread now,,

[Brett Buck]

due to federal regulations on the release of non politicaly correct comments, and threats of prejudice I can neither confirm nor deny the existance of this person in the real world

  Of course, I exaggerate for humor's sake, we don't have that level of nitwit here, fortunately.

     Brett

[Brett Buck]

Dang it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You mean to say that I just threw away money on buying Florescent Tubes and Neon lighting for my Garage?  

   I have two words for you, young man - whale oil!

     Brett

[RC Storick]

Great Posts.
Can't forget those jealous individuals who keep proving themselves to be trolls. Seems they can't stop behave like jealous school yard kids.
Or old ladies.
Unfortunately every Forum has them.
Charles

Charles I have given you a lot of latitude if you keep sticking your arm down the badger hole you can expect to get bit.

[Steve Helmick]

On the bright side, Charles has not claimed to do better Monokote jobs than Larry Fernandez... Steve

[Mark Scarborough]

 Of course, I exaggerate for humor's sake, we don't have that level of nitwit here, fortunately.

     Brett

Of course not, we are a refined group of mature modelers, not some jealouse grade school kids

[Brett Buck]

Of course not, we are a refined group of mature modelers, not some jealouse grade school kids

   Speak for yourself, old man. I am proud to proclaim that my emotion development stopped at about the age of 8, and I reserve the right to engage in any level of puerile humor you would find in a 3rd grade lunchroom.

     Brett

[RC Storick]

Speaking of light bulbs...this morning, I had to replace the first of my first purchase of LED lightbulbs. I had been curious about how long they would last, on a "Lifetime" warranty (5 years for commercial settings, but "Lifetime" for residential). Actually lasted two years and just over two weeks. "Disappointed am I", as Yoda would say.

For full disclosure, I only bought these LED bulbs because they were made in Thailand, and not China, according to the packaging. Very small print. When I bought them, I installed them in various places around the house as incandescent bulbs passed on, kept the packaging, and put in a Post-It note with the date of installation and location. I'm not sure how long a cheaper incandescent bulb would have lasted, but perhaps 1/4 to 1/2 as long? Certainly, I saved a bunch of electrons, so they could be sent for a new life in California running an A/C or filtering a swimming pool.

I'm not sure whether I should be PO'd or not, but the URL for the website (www.switchlightingco.com) doesn't currently load. I suspect the bulbs were really made in China, the Thailand origin is bogus, and the website and "company" are long gone.

Further, as a retired machinist, I removed and installed the new (LED) bulb all by myself. I did turn off the switch.   Steve

I just switched the whole house to LED with promises of huge savings and a 5-year guarantee. My guess is a slight saving and replacement before 5 years but they are cool to the touch.

[Steve Helmick]

I just switched the whole house to LED with promises of huge savings and a 5-year guarantee. My guess is a slight saving and replacement before 5 years but they are cool to the touch.

Cool to the touch would be nice in Summer, but these run probably at least as hot as incandescent bulbs.
Makes me wonder if they're really LED or not, actually.

I finally Googled "Switch Lighting Co." and they are in NZ and CA (not California, but the other one), but don't appear to sell in USA (anymore?). I didn't find regular screw-in bulbs on their "Products" page, and am not 100% sure that it's the same company. But at least their website does work. I sent an email to the NZ office...we'll see if they reply.    Steve

[RC Storick]

Cool to the touch would be nice in Summer, but these run probably at least as hot as incandescent bulbs.
Makes me wonder if they're really LED or not, actually.

I finally Googled "Switch Lighting Co." and they are in NZ and CA (not California, but the other one), but don't appear to sell in USA (anymore?). I didn't find regular screw-in bulbs on their "Products" page, and am not 100% sure that it's the same company. But at least their website does work. I sent an email to the NZ office...we'll see if they reply.    Steve

These must be LED because you can hold them while there on and have been on all night

[Dan Berry]

   Speak for yourself, old man. I am proud to proclaim that my emotion development stopped at about the age of 8, and I reserve the right to engage in any level of puerile humor you would find in a 3rd grade lunchroom.

     Brett

  Imagine my joy when I called my wife from the nats and told that I won the B Gas trophy. She was VERY concerned about what I would be bringing home.

For those who are wondering, say out loud " B Gas Trophy".
It's kinda like the KMart ads for the Big Gas Can.

[Steve Helmick]

These must be LED because you can hold them while there on and have been on all night

Makes me wonder if these I got are a scam, 'cause I just checked the one near me...same sort of bulb. Hot as a Harley's tailpipe in Las Vegas...  Steve

[Brett Buck]

I just switched the whole house to LED with promises of huge savings and a 5-year guarantee. My guess is a slight saving and replacement before 5 years but they are cool to the touch.

      Should be a dramatic improvement. I think a "100 watt" equivalent LED is around 20ish real watts. Note that when it fails, it's not likely to be the diodes that failed, but the power supply that takes the line AC down to low-voltage DC. Just like CFLs, then can sometimes be repaired and work again. I have had *much* better reliability with LEDs than with CFLs. The CFLs were popping like popcorn.

     Note that the long life will render the number of people required to screw it in moot.

      Brett

[Fredvon4]

MY reconverted Large garage to larger kitchen/ dinning area--- has a grid of 18 in ceiling "Can" light fixtures.

As you might imagine with Incandescent (@$2.99 each) had a measurable Watts usage and Significant heat load to the house....base line data

WE enjoyed instant, plenty bright enough, (for our aging eyes) light--- with the fairly long lived incandescent of 2004~2012 cheap section in Walmart... I am a notorious record keeper...and the grid of bulbs useful life was about 28 months of 40% ON time.

Got suckered into CFL replacements @7.99 each in a case of 12. They were advertised as lower energy for same lumens, run cooler, and last longer....

Good brand GE (or so we thought from experience)  each claim of "better" proved UN_TRUE..

And some forum expert (troll?) here will point out that the lower energy consumption is TRUE... and technically he or she would be correct from a power off the grid expense... BUT my real costs in HOTTER running bulbs resulted in more AC needed, not to mention the extra $5 per bulb and the MORE frequent changes. As an aside, the WAIT for full brightness is still a maddening annoyance!

So when LEDS, in this form factor arrived. I was skeptical and waited...and sure enough NOW, late 2016, I can get them at Lowe's in the $7.00 per bulb range (in a 4 pack) and I do...For now, with only 4 of 18 in service, the ONLY empirical data I have is they are Dramatically lower temp when on... IR heat gun checking

BTW I fully understand the MARKET for these type products DEMANDS the Manufacture to NOT make them durable.

And I also fully understand the technology, and thus, know that THEY could make ANY form/type bulb LAST FOR DECADES.. but NOT a good business model-- considering a typical consumer who has been conditioned to change bulbs at least at same rate as under ware...

Back on topic;
 Trolls...thankfully only have some Fred*, Bret*, and Mark* guy to deal with on StuntHanger...over on the Ford Truck forum there are at least 3 trolls for every other topic thread

At least here, we can debate changing bulbs for 2 or 3 pages without a distraction every third response

* there are many many more, these three are DOCUMENTED Trolls and called out as such fairly frequently

Sorry for any OTHER DOCUMENTED Trolls not mentioned...I have advanced CRS

[Tim Wescott]

I just switched the whole house to LED with promises of huge savings and a 5-year guarantee. My guess is a slight saving and replacement before 5 years but they are cool to the touch.

Cool to the touch would be nice in Summer, but these run probably at least as hot as incandescent bulbs.
Makes me wonder if they're really LED or not, actually.

Around here, I've been switching to screw-in LED bulbs as the incandescents and CFLs burn out.  I just ran around and checked -- all the ones I could reach were cool in front, and the back was hot enough to be uncomfortable to hold for more than a second -- but no sizzle or shiny skin, so not that hot.  The only failure I've had was a LED fixture (not bulb).  All of this in a house that's out in the boonies and has a habit of eating light bulbs.  So -- it's been four or five years, dozens of bulbs, and only one failure.  That can't be too bad.

I try to stick to name brands: Phillips, GE, Cree (which was a big name in semiconductors, if not consumer products).  I did buy some Feit's early on, and they've worked well enough that I've decided that Feit is a name brand, too.  These things are going to survive as well as the electronics in the base of the bulb do, so buying some el-cheapo brand at half the price will probably not save you anything in the long run.

[RC Storick]

Around here, I've been switching to screw-in LED bulbs as the incandescents and CFLs burn out.  I just ran around and checked -- all the ones I could reach were cool in front, and the back was hot enough to be uncomfortable to hold for more than a second -- but no sizzle or shiny skin, so not that hot.  The only failure I've had was a LED fixture (not bulb).  All of this in a house that's out in the boonies and has a habit of eating light bulbs.  So -- it's been four or five years, dozens of bulbs, and only one failure.  That can't be too bad.

I just took my laser thermometer and measured a bulb that was on all night. 130 degrees at the base so not too bad. All the bulbs I bought are Sylvania bulbs https://www.lightbulbs.com/brand/sylvania-light-bulbs/?main_cat_num=08

[Tim Wescott]

I just took my laser thermometer and measured a bulb that was on all night. 130 degrees at the base so not too bad. All the bulbs I bought are Sylvania bulbs https://www.lightbulbs.com/brand/sylvania-light-bulbs/?main_cat_num=08

130 degrees F sounds about right for what I was feeling.  (I learned rough & ready temperature measurement from an old power electronics designer.  "Touch the heat sink and tell me how quickly it starts hurting" is more or less the measurement method.)

[Brett Buck]

At some point, I expect that the LED lighting power will be built in and centrally-located, rather than relying on screw-in bulbs that use household AC. The power supply would be a medium voltage DC with separate lighting distribution lines. That way you could cool it more effectively (than trying to put the power supply and cooling radiator in each bulb envelope).

   Look around the house, and see how many things actually need AC to operate- there's only a few things like washing machine motors. Everything else is converting its AC input to various low DC voltages. You can envision a point where you convert all the necessary voltages (12V, 5V, and maybe 28 volts for lighting use) centrally, and only distribute the DC throughout the house. Rather than building the convertors/power supplies into every single device.

     Brett

[Fredvon4]

Because of barrage of PMs I must explain * Documented trolls

A DOCUMENTED TROLL ---as from the perspective---- of one, and only one, member who has a deep psychological persecution perspective and claims any contrary opinion post to be a de-facto proof of Trolling by said respondent

I have no real world belief that any of my mentioned *trolls actually a troll but I suspect one or more may truly live under a bridge....well at least the one in Pullman...been there...a lot of bridges to live under...grin

Not attributable to me... but I truly believe Dan, Mark, and Brett do NOT wake up each day and log on to Stunthanger seeking some form of confrontation with ANY other forum member

That said... at least for me... seeking out controversial ramblings from a particular member is a challenge and exercise I enjoy....just to see how far my personal button can be depressed and NOT take the bait

Thank you Al Gore for this internet...."I feel Much better Now"....OK Luddites go find later episodes of "Night Court" and Judge Harry's birth father resurgence to under stand that...

For What It Is Worth... CFL bulbs inside a CAN fixture, in a ceiling, run a LOT hotter than the original 60 Watt incandescent bulb
..but this is relevant...

The facts...an incandescent bulb was a lot hotter on the Face...while the CFL Base was a LOT hotter than the Face.... I bet almost everyone reading this has noted this fact already

I took down many a CFL can lite bulb where the glass face was easy to touch.... CAUTION!!!! Do NOT dare to put your finger on the ceramic base... unless you plan to commit some crime where you desire to NOT leave a finger print....

[Dane Martin]

Makes me wonder if these I got are a scam, 'cause I just checked the one near me...same sort of bulb. Hot as a Harley's tailpipe in Las Vegas...  Steve

Hey! That's discriminatory! I'm gonna jump on my Harley and ride elsewhere. I need a safe place.
You still handing out crayons for your volunteer work?

[FLOYD CARTER]

Most people don't know this, but down in the southern hemisphere, light bulb screw threads are left-hand.  They started this design on January 1, 1927 to accommodate the Coriolis Effect;  They found that this modification to the Edison screw socket prevents gradual loosening of the bulb.

[Fredvon4]

Brett posted while I was composting....grin

SO ---I will add this... My son is Texas master electrician working for a very large firm in Austin,,, During his early years he worked a few Very very exclusive 200 Million dollar homes for Dot com butt heads with WAY too much money

Knowing I was keen to these things he toured me about two of the projects

The current state of the art is constantly in flux... But the practical side is they ALL want under counter and every where good bright, or accent lighting...
I said EVERY WHERE and the best to date method is LED strips or purpose designed fixtures....

Side note...curious ....Halogen is still the preferred for Fine art lighting ---but I assume that is just copying studio or museum standards

Back to Brett's thought...
In a 45,000 ( yes 45K) square foot Palace  (can't call that size a Home anymore) some where is a 16x20 foot room full of computer racks and Very large AC to DC transformers and a LOT more copper wire that you think and a whole bunch of Cat 6e cabling

Example LED lighting and accents lights for the pool--- 375' away ---requires an enormous amount of DC current to be computer controlled.... This one install was 48VDC stepped down to 24 VDC then to 12 VDC and then to 5 VDC current controlled with a Low level feed back loop to the computer   Pool area, cabanas, wet bar(s), hot towels, changing rooms etc was damned near as big as my personal 2.5 acre micro ranch... massive play ground with $250,000 art designs in the pool tile work
Engineers from Japan, San Jose, and Germany collaborated on the design and many one of a kind fixtures. My son spent three weeks in Germany at the factory to learn the concept and installation

Side note...the German firm offered my son a ridiculous salary to be on their team...Hill electric got wind and immediately gave him a new truck, expense card, promotion, and 401 matching incentive to stay....the other deal was better but he stayed loyal and we both think that may prove to be economy proof for the future

As a Amateur radio guy with a strong computer background back to the early days...I am not so amazed at how much we use requires DC volts and current....but it still confounds me why we install solar into DC storage and convert it to AC and then Back to DC... ironic...and insanely ineffective.....

In my world it takes two to change a light bulb and I constantly tell her, yes ma'am, as she supervises

[Brett Buck]

Back to Brett's thought...
In a 45,000 ( yes 45K) square foot Palace  (can't call that size a Home anymore) some where is a 16x20 foot room full of computer racks and Very large AC to DC transformers and a LOT more copper wire that you think and a whole bunch of Cat 6e cabling

Example LED lighting and accents lights for the pool--- 375' away ---requires an enormous amount of DC current to be computer controlled.... This one install was 48VDC stepped down to 24 VDC then to 12 VDC and then to 5 VDC current controlled with a Low level feed back loop to the computer   Pool area, cabanas, wet bar(s), hot towels, changing rooms etc was damned near as big as my personal 2.5 acre micro ranch... massive play ground with $250,000 art designs in the pool tile work
Engineers from Japan, San Jose, and Germany collaborated on the design and many one of a kind fixtures. My son spent three weeks in Germany at the factory to learn the concept and installation

   Of course, you could divide the DC distribution as would be most efficient, like, per room, so say have one convertor for each room, or for portions of a house. Of course you wouldn't attempt to run, say 5 volts/50 amps through a 400' cable.

       Brett

[Fredvon4]

Brett you are correct for some(ok most all)  methods of control--- but a lot of the current stuff has no good DC distribution standards so there are the trade off of efficient POWER distribution of CONVENIENT computer control...

Many of us who, care about the electric bill, have one mode of thinking... others who pay $30,000 a month for on site security have no care about the efficiency...just the perfect voice control

You are probably one of maybe 5 folks here who will understand...

My son brought me home a lot of cut offs for the DC install.... 3 to 4 foot sections of 2 inch diameter 6000 strand welding cable ( I have no clue what Aught Gage)...the shield was less than 1/4" thick....

The AC to DC first in series transformers were beautiful and large with ZERO humm or EMI at 48VDC and 900 AMPs continuous... I was assaulted that they designed it that way ( back in 2002 any good EE could  have done a much more efficient and still controllable blueprint)

A lot of How very exceptionally rich people think and decide things is very strange to me

As my son was showing me about the under construction monstrosity...the owner was one site... as I was pontificating out loud about some of the insanely stupid concepts I was seeing... we were rapidly ushered away to another section of the House by the Hill electric upper level guy showing off the features to the owner... my son got an ass chewing... the company was more than happy to accommodate WHATEVER pseudo science concepts this owner thought were the coolest thing ever

Contract profit, good design, logic ,and common sense...well, I learned that--- bad decisions are NOT just confined to the Government

[Mark Scarborough]

My girlfriend made me give up my under bridge luxury box,, that and the internet company would not wire it ,, how on earth could I continue my Troll behaviour without internet,,

[Carl Cisneros]

Brett:

Whale oil?   What about the light in the oven?

Carl C

[Dan McEntee]

   BUT I SAID I WANTED A BUD LIGHT!!!!!!
     Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee

[Steve Helmick]

Hey! That's discriminatory! I'm gonna jump on my Harley and ride elsewhere. I need a safe place.
You still handing out crayons for your volunteer work?

Crayons are out of stock, but I still have some sidewalk chalk. Such pretty pastels, sooo soothing. I have put in a requisition for a safety pin, but apparently there's a shortage for all except "Hello Kitty" ones and Unicorn ones, and Larry Fernandez has control of the distribution of those.  Steve