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Author Topic: Eric Rule/RSM  (Read 4488 times)

Offline Gerald Schamp

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Eric Rule/RSM
« on: October 05, 2019, 03:18:56 PM »
I understand Eric has handed off RSM to someone else, anyone know the status of this. Hate to see him go, was a great addition to our hobby.

Offline Gerald Schamp

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2019, 03:25:35 PM »
Well Guess I found the answer to my question, just checked further and see he did in fact hand/ sold the business, so that answers that.

Online Dave Harmon

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2019, 04:57:37 PM »
Well Guess I found the answer to my question, just checked further and see he did in fact hand/ sold the business, so that answers that.

Right.
I have placed several orders since the business was sold and there was very good customer service from the new owner.
Place your orders....

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2019, 05:15:28 PM »
My last order to RSM was just a couple weeks ago.  Small order; just some Polyspan.  It arrived almost as soon as I hit the SEND key on the computer.
89 years, but still going (sort of)
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Offline dale gleason

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2019, 08:21:32 PM »
At the VSC some years back, a conversation was in progress concerning what kits would be good sellers for Eric.  Someone from Texas off-handedly suggested the lowly Ringmaster....

RSM made the kits, Ringmasters begot the BROFTR, Dee Rice spearheaded Matt Kania's induction into the HOF. David Fitz had the cute little S-1 with the BB Veco 19, Uncle Jimby had the 20 pointer RM and now it's once again Flyathon Time, led by John Cralley.

Tomorrow's the day to go fly your RM, just a reminder....

dg

Offline POLF2B

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2019, 03:23:54 PM »
Hey, will there be new sets of modern stunt aircraft? ;)

Offline pat king

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2019, 12:24:52 PM »
Hey, will there be new sets of modern stunt aircraft? ;)
I hate to say it, but kitting modern or older stunt aircraft is not a sure way to sell lots of kits. Unless they have been high scoring or a championship winner at the NATS or the World Championships they do not draw much interest.

As for dealing with RSM Distribution these days, Mike is a good man to do business with and works to please his customers.

Pat
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Offline ericrule

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2019, 11:23:01 AM »
Hey Guys;
I'm not dead, just retired.
Now that Mike Hanson is running RSM Distribution I have the time to spend on creating new stuff. I still work with Mike on some new projects and he still does the laser cutting for them so nothing has really changed. You just get to work with a sharp, young guy instead of a forgetful "old fart".

Offline POLF2B

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2019, 03:47:14 AM »
Hi Eric
Can you tell us what projects you are working on?
I greet you!

Offline ericrule

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2019, 09:03:44 PM »
Just about done with the Torreador. Just have to create the canopy mold.
This one will use new construction technique that replaces balsa wood and polyspan covering with lite ply/spruce and a new paper backed laminate (what the folks who make drums use). Decided to go this route since availability of contest balsa is so bad and the cost has gone up by 40% lately. Overall weight should be less than traditional balsa/ply/polyspan with paint construction method and so much stronger. Model can be powered by .46 glow or electric. Mine will feature retracts and electric power.

Offline POLF2B

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2019, 06:06:20 AM »
Hi Eric
You create a very nice project.
Are stunt performance models also planned? If so can you reveal what?
best regards :)

Offline Steve Berry

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2019, 11:01:30 AM »
Just about done with the Torreador. Just have to create the canopy mold.
This one will use new construction technique that replaces balsa wood and polyspan covering with lite ply/spruce and a new paper backed laminate (what the folks who make drums use). Decided to go this route since availability of contest balsa is so bad and the cost has gone up by 40% lately. Overall weight should be less than traditional balsa/ply/polyspan with paint construction method and so much stronger. Model can be powered by .46 glow or electric. Mine will feature retracts and electric power.

Could you provide a slight bit more info on that? Are you saying you've replaced balsa with lite ply, and polyspan with a new paper laminate? How much weight savings are we talking, and how does it all work. I'm always interested in alternative building techniques.

Offline ericrule

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2019, 12:19:49 PM »
Steve;

I'll get back to you with a new posting providing all applicable data as soon as the test build is complete.

In the meanwhile here is what I am doing with this test build:
High quality contest balsa is difficult to obtain (especially 4" wide) plus the recent demand for balsa has driven prices up once again. The most recent supply we got had increased in price by 40%! This situation has resulted in the cost to build a model going up substantially even when we are able to obtain sufficient contest grade balsa.

Our "traditional" construction technique of open bay wings with balsa fuselage often results in a structure with a reasonable weight but then we end up adding a whole lot of ounces when we paint the model. What I am attempting to accomplish is using modern materials that are readily available for a reasonable cost combined with different covering material that can be painted without adding a whole lot of paint. The biggest problems we have with our current use covering materials is that they all have to be filled in before we can get a good paint job and even if we can accomplish this we have a surface that can be ripped or torn easily. If this paper backed laminate I found works like the drum manufacturers tell me it should I can end up with a much stronger surface that resists damage much better than our current use covering and can be painted with very little paint weight.

I plan to combine this factor with creating stronger more rigid lite ply formers with spruce instead of balsa stringers. All of that will be covered by the paper backed laminate that can be painted with very few coats of paint. If this method proves out as I think it will what I will end up with is a model that is lighter, stronger, more rigid and very resistant to damage and a lot less expensive than our traditional models.

Once the test build is complete I can tell you if all of this works. Like I have always said theories are great right up until reality sticks it's ugly head in there!

Offline Steve Berry

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2019, 01:21:21 PM »
Cool! Sounds like a well thought out solution to a big problem. Use of alternative materials & techniques. Very much looking forward to hearing more after your test build (take lots of pics, and video (if possible).

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2019, 05:45:58 PM »
Sounds like Mylar over ”doctor paper” it should be great.

Good to know it might be available pre laminated. Does it heat shrink?
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline ericrule

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2019, 08:50:11 PM »
Mr. Renger, Sir! (he makes me call him that)

No it does not shrink. It is actually .001" thick oak laminate with a paper backing. Very solid (think of balsa sheeting without the problems). The oak laminate is very tight grained so it will not soak up paint and does not require a tissue or CF Mat coving to hide the grain like balsa does. Light, strong and puncture resistant.

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2019, 04:57:05 PM »
Hi Eric,
That sounds a lot like the stuff I tried years ago at Sig.  It worked pretty well but skinning foam wings with it really worked great.  I did a bunch of foam wings with it and worked well with 3M 77 spray glue or laminating epoxy.  Also tried it on turtle decks on some of the larger R/C models.

Mikey

Offline ericrule

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2019, 12:33:10 PM »
Hi Mike;

Not sure how long this stuff has been available.

The reason I think that this stuff will work really well is that unlike most laminates this stuff has paper on the back of the thin wood. From what I have observed watching other manufacturers work with it this paper backed laminate can be wrapped around very tight curves with no breaking or cracking of the wood. Any other non paper backed laminates I have worked with always had a tendency to split or crack when I bent them around a sharp curve. That meant that I had to be prepared to use heavy filler before painting or limit the use to gentle curves like foam wing surfaces. Since I am intending to use this laminate in place of sheet balsa on fuselage and covering material over wing open bays I am looking forward to the non cracking feature.

If it works out like I think it will I can see us designing properly shaped fuselages and eliminating the non-scale look of flat fuselage sides. Tear Drop fuselage shapes and realistic turtle decks should be easy to build with this paper backed oak laminate. My only real concern is how much paint I will have to put on the laminate to get contest level finishes. As long as it works like the drum manufacturers said it would I may even prove to be lighter than a comparable polyspan, silk or silkspan with dope finish.

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2019, 03:31:40 PM »
  Hi Eric;
   What other industry did you discover this material?  I have to admit that when I hear the work "oak" the words "lightweight' almost NEVER follow after that! I'm just curious and interested in how and where you discovered it?
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
AMA 28784
EAA  1038824
AMA 480405 (American Motorcyclist Association)

Offline ericrule

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2019, 11:36:06 AM »
Hi Dan;

You and me both about "oak" and lightweight!

One of my vendors when I owned RSM was a plywood supplier. I visited them and spoke to their owner and tech people. During that conversation we discussed the balsa problem. I also shared with them the ongoing problem we had in C/L with covering/paint and the extra (un necessary weight) caused due to filling the grain and painting and asked if they knew of anything that might solve this problem. They told me about what the music drum manufacturing industry was using and showed me a sample of this new paper backed laminate material. The material comes in many types of wood laminate but different types of wood have wide grains that tend to soak up a whole lot of paint. My vendor said that if we want a very narrow grain that will not soak up paint (an cause extra weight) we needed to consider something like oak. The total thickness of the paper backing plus the wood laminate is only 0.021 so weight does not become a real factor when you also consider that the wood is treated so the grain does not have to be filled before you paint it.

After purchasing a 4X8 sheet and seeing for myself how light and flexible it was I decided to try using it in place of balsa sheeting and polyspan covering for the wing and cover the entire fuselage with this material instead of using balsa sheet and block. In theory this should be lighter than 1/16" balsa wing sheeting and 1/8" balsa fuselage sides and hollowed bock. After a bit more thought I decided to eliminate balsa sticks and replace them with Sitka Spruce as spruce would increase the strength and rigidity of the structures yet be almost as light as the balsa. This thought of course lead me to remember the old "stick and tissue" models of my youth so I decided to design the new model with curved fuselage sides and to increase strength and rigidity by using lite ply formers.

OK, the theory sounded good but we all know how often theory gets blown out of the water by reality so I decided to test it out on a model. I am planning on building one Torreador using our current construction materials and methods and a second using this new laminate, spruce, lite ply method. After painting both I will weight them and let you know what reality is.

Offline FLOYD CARTER

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2019, 12:57:43 PM »
WOW!  That's interesting.  I've built furniture from oak, and I've found that oak takes a lot of varnish to fill the open grain.  Last time I examined a drum, the heads were some sort of plastic material, not wood.
89 years, but still going (sort of)
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Offline Paul Wescott

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2019, 12:16:27 AM »
Tear Drop fuselage shapes and realistic turtle decks should be easy to build with this paper backed oak laminate.

I also am interested in alternative building materials.  I think I’ve read almost every article about building with corrugated cardboard.  I was also looking into foam core / foam board when Flite Test exploded onto the scene with full-blown kits made out of flat foam sheet with craft paper on both sides, but the paper is easily stripped off (watch one of their build tutorial videos, wow!).

I am familiar with several types of laminates or laminated materials.  This term means two materials layered together, it does not mean oak “laminate” with a paper backing.  If you were to layer a thin slice of oak (easily split) with a layer of paper to prevent the splitting, the two materials bonded together would be referred to as a laminate.  In other words an oak “veneer” glued to a layer of paper creates a laminate.

That being said, I can see oak veneer or other species of wood veneers being bent perpendicular to the direction of the grain quite easily.  And a paper or even cloth (silk? Polyspan? Tea-Paper?) backing would most likely prevent splitting.  the material would seem quite useful for wing skins, fuselages, and tail feathers, anything with a simple unidirectional bend or bends.

I just don’t see that bending happening in two directions in order to create a teardrop shape, a humped turtleneck, or a cowl.  I’m not saying it can’t be done, I’m just saying I’m not a believer so “show me”.  I wish you luck with that part of your experiment.  Personally I think you’d have better luck with a molded paper-pulp structure such as a plain old egg carton.  They can be molded into quite clean shapes and curves as long as fast-and-cheap is not your goal like the egg industry.

since we are theorizing alternatives and hybridizing materials left and right I would like to make a suggestion regarding paint: don’t use it.  Explanation: As we know most paint is a binder or medium filled with particles of color (pigment), or zero particles for clear.  The bottom line for most of us is that stuff is thick, gloppy, and HEAVY so that the binder can contain the pigment.  A reasonable alternative to me would be a dye or stain or even ink.  Dyes and stains don’t contain particles.  The medium is usually very thin and the color is dissolved into the medium so the medium doesn’t have to carry or coat the pigment as in paint.  You apply a dye or stain, brush, wipe, or spray it on and the medium for the most part evaporates leaving behind a very thin and light color coat.  We would have to re-learn our procedures and our color theory to make it work.  A dye sprayed over another dye would not hide the bottom color.  The medium of the top color would tend to melt the bottom color layer and allow them to blend.  Unless we could figure out a light weight clear for in between coats but still dyes are more transparent than paints.  However I think it might be possible to lay down a light weight white base coat, followed by some nifty graphics by airbrushing dyes over peel off masks (probably made by Callie), followed by a final fuel-proof clear coat of rattle can 2-part Spray Max 2K, or WBP (water based polycrylic) shot through a HVLP sprayer.

That’s mostly all I wanted to say.  My brain hurts now.  Long day.  I am glad you are semi-retired, out of the rat race, doing what YOU want to do, and I am hoping your health is improving.

I really do wish you oodles of luck and good fortune with the alternative materials project.  Keep me in mind to buy some Beta Kits to build!

Thank You.

Paul W.
Cypress, CA

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2019, 11:54:51 AM »
Eric, the old DOC will be following this experiment of yours.  I have been using Mr. Renger's method of finish on my planes with some of my variances.    H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2019, 07:20:57 PM »
C’mon Doc, we met at VSC. I’m Larry, my Dad was MR. Renger.  H^^ Or for Eric, that might be Sir Larry, being a long term member of the Knights of the  Round Circle. But then he must be Sir Eric, a title well deserved. In addition he is a jolly good (AMA) Fellow. Really, I attended his award of that honor.
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!

Offline MikeyPratt

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2019, 11:32:41 PM »
Hi Eric,
The material I tried was very thin wood with a nylon paper bonded on the back.  What started my looking into this was trying to find a different product fore wing skins.  I didn't want to use the 1/64” plywood, way to expensive and hard to get at times.
This alone killed the new design from going forward with it.  The model was a big 120” wing span with 11” average cord.  At that time we (Sig) had a product called Rinohide, A stiff paper product that was easy to mold around leading edges.  It was pretty light and the cost was reasonable.  Well it didn't work out to well after setting in the sun for two hours it tripled the dihedral from 2” a panel to 6” per panel.  I built a new wing with obechie wood skins it was better but still very costly.  The place where I got the obechie skins from said the have a different product we should try, a nylon backed wood vernier (.020”).  We requested .064” sample with light color wood grain to be honest it looked like pine. The price was still up there but it did work quite well. 

Between the cost of the wing skins and the cost of a 110” glass fuselage pretty much ended that project, but it was still fun to do.  That was a great flying cross country sail plane that was very fast with speeds close to 200 mph or more. 

Mikey



Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2019, 09:59:09 AM »
C’mon Doc, we met at VSC. I’m Larry, my Dad was MR. Renger.  H^^ Or for Eric, that might be Sir Larry, being a long term member of the Knights of the  Round Circle. But then he must be Sir Eric, a title well deserved. In addition he is a jolly good (AMA) Fellow. Really, I attended his award of that honor.

Well I was always taught to respect my elders.  LL~ LL~
John E. "DOC" Holliday
10421 West 56th Terrace
Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Larry Renger

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Re: Eric Rule/RSM
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2019, 07:56:09 PM »
You mean, of course, Sir Eric.  VD~
Think S.M.A.L.L. y'all and, it's all good, CL, FF and RC!

DesignMan
 BTW, Dracula Sucks!  A closed mouth gathers no feet!


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