Author Topic: Environementally friendly engine starter (Read 6295 times)

Warren Leadbeatter · « **on:** May 24, 2007, 07:38:11 AM »

I dont know what it's like over there in the U.S. but here in Aus everyones gone green! Save this, save that before we all melt or something... Now they all think they can make as much green house gases as they like so long as they plant a few trees to make up for it. (Carbon neutral or something they call it)... anyway I was looking through this old Popular Mechanics Encyclopedia that my father in law loaned me dated 1955 and I saw this! (see pic) A mechanical starter for model airplane engines. Did anyone every try this? Now this is GREEN.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2007, 07:45:36 AM »

My 23-year-old daughter noticed a couple of those units in my shop last week.

She couldn't figure out what they were.

When I explained, she still didn't entirely believe that cordless electric drills hadn't been around forever.

ps: Never started an engine with one, but did drill some mounting holes.

minnesotamodeler · « **Reply #2 on:** May 24, 2007, 08:56:21 AM »

We called 'em "hurdie-gurdies" as opposed to the ol' brace-and-bit. I have no idea why. But yes, I drilled lots of holes with one too. But that's all I ever did with it. Seems like someone adapted one to wind the rubber bands in their such-powered model.

--Ray

Keith Spriggs · « **Reply #3 on:** May 24, 2007, 09:00:53 AM »

Many years ago a friend of mine had an engine starter that was spring wound. It worked very good especially at starting those old worn out McCoys. When I was at the AMA museum I saw a new one. With that information I was able to locate the original patent filed 2/15/49 Patent # 2,461,784. His was the only one that I ever saw and used. I always wondered why there were not more of them around. I understand that one of them recently brough 200 dollars on Ebay.

Keith Spriggs · « **Reply #4 on:** May 24, 2007, 09:06:04 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on May 24, 2007, 08:56:21 AM

We called 'em "hurdie-gurdies" as opposed to the ol' brace-and-bit. I have no idea why.

--Ray

They also had larger ones that were called "breast drills" the idea was that you could push on it with your chest. There was a piece of metal on the end that roughly conformed to your chest.

Warren Leadbeatter · « **Reply #5 on:** May 24, 2007, 09:21:21 AM »

I have a couple of those small "egg beater" drills myself that I still use for drilling, but starting a model plane engine with one would be difficult I think because they require 2 hands to work it. Also those breast drills, my dad has one... Good for drilling big holes with a speed bore, because you can put you whole body into it. And yes I have used them for winding up rubber powered free flight models, very handy with a 4 or 5 to 1 ratio when you have to put a 1000 or so turns on. I think the brace and bit is different... isn't that the square shaped one?

Cheers

Robert McHam · « **Reply #6 on:** May 24, 2007, 09:38:10 AM »

Another "green" atrter used some years ago both here and the U.S. by some clubs,was an inertia starter.

Robert

SteveMoon · « **Reply #7 on:** May 24, 2007, 12:46:47 PM »

Al Gore invented it. Steve

L0U CRANE · « **Reply #8 on:** May 24, 2007, 04:59:18 PM »

To Robert McHam, reply #6:

There used to be 80:1 geared bench grinders. I think most had a slip dog for the handle - push handle onto shaft to engage so you could spin it up, slide handle out of contact and the wheel spun free and coasted down.

Many of these were converted to drive a flywheel and rubber lined cup (as on today's electric starters). The usual grinder had a clamp base like some small clamp-on bench vises. Clamped onto the field box, you could spin up the flywheel and cup, free it to coast, and bump the spinner into the rubber.

Most that I saw, and saw pix of, were very handy for speed models with 'unorthodox' timing, props and fuels...

Modified to add: I like this way better than using a wrench socket on the prop nut, or another "green" thing sometimes suggested: chuck a spindle fitted with a short piece of garden hose into the egg-beater type hand drill... Tried that once.

JUST once...

bob branch · « **Reply #9 on:** May 24, 2007, 07:13:36 PM »

Yup, used a chest drill to build my first boat when I was 13. Sunk the screws with a bit brace with a screwdriver with the handle cut off chucked. Used that for alot of boats till variable speed cordless with variable ratio gears came out. Cordless ones without the clutch were useless, you'd strip too many screws. Not a good thing to do in a wood boat.

Bob Branch

Dick Byron · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2007, 07:24:11 PM »

My green starter is my finger. Sometimes it's green, sometimes it's red. I give it to most drivers I see. LOL

Keith Spriggs · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2007, 09:42:27 PM »

Quote from: Dick Byron on May 24, 2007, 07:24:11 PM

My green starter is my finger. Sometimes it's green, sometimes it's red. I give it to most drivers I see. LOL

That was pretty funny. My wife ask me what I was laughing at. I tried to explain, but as the say "you just had to be there"

Bob Disharoon · « **Reply #12 on:** May 25, 2007, 05:19:30 AM »

Does anyone remember the" Yankee" drill/screwdriver tool?..also, the spinner in the above posted pic reminds me a lot of an older paint brush spinner..you chukked the handle in it,push/ pull the lever, and it would spin a 6" brush a mile a minute..now THAT might be a great starter.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #13 on:** May 25, 2007, 06:24:43 AM »

Quote from: minnesotamodeler on May 24, 2007, 08:56:21 AM

We called 'em "hurdie-gurdies" as opposed to the ol' brace-and-bit. I have no idea why. --Ray

I've never heard that term applied to drill either, but I can figure out why.

The hurdi-girdie was a musical instrustment used by buskers. It had a similar hand crank on the side.

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #14 on:** May 25, 2007, 07:50:55 AM »

Hi All;

I should have seen this one sooner, been busy with the 1000. Paul you nailed it down, that is exactly why it has that "Nickname". I have to agree with "Dick Byron" though, I have never done anything but hand starts.

"Billy G"

Warren Leadbeatter · « **Reply #15 on:** May 25, 2007, 08:09:21 AM »

Hi Billy

How's the 1000 coming along? I had always been of the opinion that starters were for wussy R/C fliers, but my cantankerous 4 stroke that keeps wanting to run backwards made me consider using the electric starter which I ended up doing today. I was shattered that the bloody thing defeated me. It was like trying to start a Cox baby bee without a spring starter again. Arrghhh! I'm still mad!

Cheers

john e. holliday · « **Reply #16 on:** May 25, 2007, 08:57:04 AM »

Warren, hand starting only impresses the judges. Don't be ashamed of using the electric finger. I had one engine that just would not start by hand. All I had to do was bump it with the electric finger and it was running. I have also witnessed some big name flyers using them. DOC Holliday

50+AirYears · « **Reply #17 on:** May 26, 2007, 08:30:20 PM »

I've seen adds for the spring driven starter (Spin-it?) in some of my older mid-late 40s mags. Always heard that the spring had a limited life.

I recall seeing Captain Reid Simpson using one of those spinning flywheel starters on a class A speed model in the model club building back at Chanute AFB back in 1965. I think it took over an hour to spin down.

I have a couple CL engines that won't start with the electrics. They eventually start and run by hand-flipping. My impression is that the electric spinner holds them back when they fire off, and they die out as soon as the starter is removed. Haven't had that kind of problem with any of the RC engines, that usually are started at partial throttle.

Bob Kruger · « **Reply #18 on:** May 28, 2007, 07:08:38 PM »

Quote from: Warren Leadbeatter on May 24, 2007, 07:38:11 AM

I dont know what it's like over there in the U.S. but here in Aus everyones gone green! Save this, save that before we all melt or something... Now they all think they can make as much green house gases as they like so long as they plant a few trees to make up for it. (Carbon neutral or something they call it)... anyway I was looking through this old Popular Mechanics Encyclopedia that my father in law loaned me dated 1955 and I saw this! (see pic) A mechanical starter for model airplane engines. Did anyone every try this? Now this is GREEN.

Warren;

I am not sure how well the clip you show would work with our modern high compression engines. I don't think it gives much mechanical advantage.

The only non electric starter that I have seen other than a couple of fingers was a setup that used a flywheel system similar to the grinder/sharpener my grandfather had in his shop. It had a hand crank on one end, a geared flywheel, and instead of a circular stone it had a rubber cup that engaged the old Veco type spinners from the 50s and 60s. The person who had it was an old speed flyer from the 40s and 50s who had it mounted on a rather large tripod that had to be manhandled with some difficulty. The drill was to get the flywheel (and nose cone cup) spinning once the engine was primed, battery hooked up, and it was ready to start. The whole plane was lifted to the stationary starter. He demonstrated it a couple of times. It did work, although it left a significant marring on the spinner as the cup was turning when he engaged the spinner. Whether this was optimum procedure or not I don't know, as this was over 30 years ago.

Was it environmentally green? Yes. Was it practicable, especially for stunt engines? I'm not sure.

V/r

Bob

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #19 on:** May 29, 2007, 11:08:09 AM »

Finger?

john e. holliday · « **Reply #20 on:** May 29, 2007, 12:49:39 PM »

My term for an electric starter. Most guys I have seen put the starter to the engine and keep turning the engine over. Then I show them how to bump the starter to the spinner and 99% of the time the engine starts easily. DOC Holliday

Keith Spriggs · « **Reply #21 on:** May 29, 2007, 10:46:26 PM »

I know this sounds crazy, but I enjoy starting the engine by hand. For me it is part of the overall flying experience.

Bradley Walker · « **Reply #22 on:** May 30, 2007, 12:08:20 PM »

Quote from: Keith Spriggs on May 29, 2007, 10:46:26 PM

I know this sounds crazy, but I enjoy starting the engine by hand. For me it is part of the overall flying experience.

Poor man, he has lost his mind... so sad...

I enjoy my 12V starter running on 17V. It scares people.

Michael Floerchinger · « **Reply #23 on:** May 31, 2007, 10:02:45 AM »

I have never used an electric starter so does that mean I get 10,000 Carbon Credits?

I could donate them to algore, he burned about $30,000 in carbon usage last year at one of his mansions.

Actually, the increase in the carbon in the atmosphere is the result of the global warming, not the cause of global warming. There has been increased solar flare activity that has warmed all the planets, Mars’s polar caps are melting and it’s atmosphere is getting warmer, I cannot remember the last time I drove and flew my airplane there but I do not think I contributed to that warming.

Leo Mehl · « **Reply #24 on:** May 31, 2007, 03:59:38 PM »

And here I thought that I was the most enviremental friendly starter. I ride Bicycle and also use the bathroom. Does that count or am I being an egetist?

Keith Spriggs · « **Reply #25 on:** May 31, 2007, 05:09:36 PM »

Quote from: Leo Mehl on May 31, 2007, 03:59:38 PM

I ride Bicycle and also use the bathroom.?

You must have a pretty big bathroom to ride a bicycle in there. Or am I confused?

$:-\$ $:-\$ $:-\$

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #26 on:** May 31, 2007, 10:12:54 PM »

Now we are gettin somewhere !

"The G-Man"

Leo Mehl · « **Reply #27 on:** May 31, 2007, 10:43:00 PM »

Accually I ride the drill to the bathroom and the Bike to the field, or is it the other way around. I don't know, Billy "g" has me all flustered and be sides he can't get that one thousand inch wing out the window or door. I think he over did it this time.

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #28 on:** June 01, 2007, 05:17:07 AM »

HMMMMMMMMMMM

(ACTUALLY I RIDE THE DRILL TO THE BATHROOM) This sounds interesting, would you care to elaborate a little?

"The G-Man"

Leo Mehl · « **Reply #29 on:** June 01, 2007, 08:13:32 AM »

Actually I should have left the drill out of this conversation and perhaps even the bathroom. Ma H^^ybe i should'nt of even posted on this thread. Sometimes I think I am real funny- that should be wierd. Oh what the heck, have a good day.

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #30 on:** June 01, 2007, 08:43:20 AM »

You Have A good day Too Leo, And You Are Real Funny. Don't Ever Stop Postin, OK? Let's Change The Subject, To Keep In The Spirit Of The Post, Where Can I Buy Environmentally Friendly Silk? Good Stuff, I Need About 5 Yards?

"Billy G"

Marvin Denny · « **Reply #31 on:** June 01, 2007, 08:58:22 AM »

What was the subject anyway??? Iuse a VERY environmental system--- Finger--- Blood and flesh bio-degrade very readily.

Silk--- RSM or Thai Silks or Dharma. Be sure to COMPLETELY rinse out ALL the sizing from the silk if you get either Thai or Dharma.

Bigiron

Jim Morris · « **Reply #32 on:** June 01, 2007, 09:50:04 AM »

That socialist Al Gore would be proud!

Leo Mehl · « **Reply #33 on:** June 01, 2007, 05:32:52 PM »

Gruby, you may be able to get silk from those two redheads!

Bill Gruby · « **Reply #34 on:** June 01, 2007, 06:17:01 PM »

That's a no-no -------who is this guy with the first name that is the same as my last name?

"Billy G"

Robert McHam · « **Reply #35 on:** June 03, 2007, 10:16:09 AM »

I finally ran across a couple of pics of the inertia starters. Just spin them up with the handle and stick the nose of the model on to it! Enjoy!

Robert

john e. holliday · « **Reply #36 on:** June 04, 2007, 06:30:06 AM »

I can't beleive I remember one of those things. They were used in the speed events. Byron Meriwether related a story of those things and he always warned about getting close to the fly wheel. Said a young man at on of the Nationals was helping in speed. The engine was fired and the young man took off with the inertia starter. Some how he got his pants/shirt cought in the thing. Byron said it was kind of hysterical watching the youngster and the starter flopping around on the tarmac. DOC Holliday

don Burke · « **Reply #37 on:** June 04, 2007, 03:29:25 PM »

They also had a handling problem. Because of the usual large flywheel, there was a lot of gyroscopic force built up. It caused the starter stand to try to go where IT wanted to go when picked up to clear it from the circle. Quite a bit of torque there on the wrist. First time experience was fun.

Leo Mehl · « **Reply #38 on:** June 05, 2007, 12:28:01 PM »

Hey Robert, I remember those. They used them at the 47 nationals to start those ignition speed planes of that era. they worked great