Engine Mounts Brodak Magician

[DanielGelinas]

Hello all,

Just looked into the box of my magician and noticed the engine mounts are quite short (maybe two inches). I'm thinking adding new ones right up to the wing.
Has anyone tried this? 

Also, thinking of running it with a stock fox .35 stunt with a 3 oz tank. Is this engine too heavy for the magician?

Thanks for your input! 

-Dan 

[Larry Fernandez]

1. Yes the motor mounts are way to short. Especially if you use that Fox .35. Install longer mounts that extend all the way to the wing.
  This will help dampen the vibration.

2. No, the Fox is not too heavy. I built and flew a couple of Magicians a few years back and I recall that it was not a bad plane. (Looking back now, I think I would move the stab/ elevator back a bit.

3. (Here is where the feathers will get ruffled) The Fox .35 is a dandy classic stunt motor when broke in correctly and fed the proper fuel.
    HOWEVER, when mounted on a profile airplane, the motor has a nasty burp on outside maneuvers. At times even flaming out. There are ways to fix
   the dreaded burp. Check the archives on this and other forums. (even though most old-timers will say this phenomena does not exist.)

Enjoy the Magician, I know I had fun with mine

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

[Dwayne]

Everything Larry said and here's the Burp fix.
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=3878.0

[Jerry Leuty]

  While the Magician is still in kit form you need to do everything possible to stiffen up the nose on it or any profile. Especially if you are using one of the Arkansas Rattlers, ie; Fox .35   These were great engines in the day and can still be great today. I have one that is finally broken in but no plane to put it on now. I am thinking of building a trainer/balloon bust plane for it. The thing is to build the plane (Magician) LIGHT. Then if you actually built it light enough you could just use a Max .25 or even one of the .32s. These run very smooth, have none of the nasty habits of the box stock Fox .35 and you will not have near the frustrations of a long break in period. As you get comfortable with building you will develop good building habits too. One of the tricks I always do with a profile is to 'pin' the leading edge of the wing to the fuselage. I do this with a short piece of landing gear wire or even a 6 penny finishing nail. Drive it in from the bottom of the fuselage through the wing leading edge and then use some wood filler to smooth over the nail hole. The wing will never come loose from the fuselage if it is not crashed head long in. Before you glue a single stick get some spare balsa and trace the parts. In other words make you a second kit. Then if you like the way the Magician flies you will have another kit to build. 

Jerry

[Bill Little]

The guys have covered it!    By all means, extend the maple mounts.

As to the Fox .35, I like them (just put on my flame proof suit and flak jacket! LOL!!), but as was mentioned, they can "SOMETIMES" act the fool on a profile.

An OS Max .25LA would do the job, and with little to no chance of the problems that the Fox .35 can exhibit on a profile.  I WOLD put a metal back plate on the LA .25 and use the readily available OS .20-.25 FP venturi with the needle valve up front.  The LA .25 might not 4-2 like the Fox, but it will be an excellent "2-2" engine and trouble free with a 10-4 APC and launching in a soft 2 cycle.

The Magician is a great profile, many people love them!

Big Bear

[Pat Johnston]

Bill is right about using an OS25.  I built one for the 25FP and it had the same power as the Fox 35 without the annoying propensity of cracking the leading edge to wing joint the first time a Fox is run.  The Fox is good on an Oriental with an inverted setup which controls the vibration, but in my opinion is almost completely unusable for a profile.  The vibration is out of the reasonable range of usability.
I did draw the Magician plans with the motormounts the same length as the original.  I have made them longer than the doublers on one Ringmaster and the Fox still shook so badly the wing joint cracked almost immediately.  In my personal opinion, the doublers add huge amounts of strength and mostly stiffness as opposed to longer motor mounts.  Plus long motor mounts add a lot of weight.  There is my two cents worth.
Pat Johnston
Skunk Works

[DanielGelinas]

Thanks for all the replies!
I guess I will use an OS .25LA which I have on order from SS. I'll keep the fox for a built fuselage like the Super Chipmunk and the Oriental.
Anyone know where I can purchase the Midwest Magician plans? That is the model I built 35 years ago And I certainly would like to rebuild it with moving flaps. Before crashing, it was an awsome flyer!
-dan

[Ed Keller]

Daniel - The Midwest Magician plans are offered by a guy right here in my town. He sells them on e-bay. The # is 220732061063. Regards, Ed

[thomas farmer]

mount the fox 35 inboard and you will not have a burp problem.

[Larry Fernandez]

mount the fox 35 inboard and you will not have a burp problem.

Maybe not, but you will still have a vibration problem.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

[Larry Fernandez]

Thanks for all the replies!
I guess I will use an OS .25LA which I have on order from SS. I'll keep the fox for a built fuselage like the Super Chipmunk and the Oriental.
Anyone know where I can purchase the Midwest Magician plans? That is the model I built 35 years ago And I certainly would like to rebuild it with moving flaps. Before crashing, it was an awsome flyer!
-dan

If you do build a magician with flaps, move the stab/elevator back to where the trailing edge of the stab, lines up with the trailing edge of the rudder.
If you don't do this the plane will be very, very twitchy. (ask me how I know) With the longer tail moment and flaps, the Magician was a wonderfull flying airplane.

Let us know if you do this.

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team

[DanielGelinas]

Thanks Ed...Just ordered the plans!
-Dan

[DanielGelinas]

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the info. I did build my magician, 35 years ago, with moving flaps and did not seem to have this problem...  I had a new generation Mccoy .40 (35 years ago...) and the plane was just wonderful to fly.
I will certainly look into your modification though.

Cheers,

-d

[Bill Little]

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the info. I did build my magician, 35 years ago, with moving flaps and did not seem to have this problem...  I had a new generation Mccoy .40 (35 years ago...) and the plane was just wonderful to fly.
I will certainly look into your modification though.

Cheers,

-d

HI Daniel,

I understand Larry's comments, but it is a matter of preference, either way.   I have a buddy (NATS Advanced Champ) who can't fly my Parrott P-47.  Says it's too sensitive.  I like it just fine! LOL!!!!

I remember Bob Hunt telling the story of him and Billy Werwage swapping planes at a NATS or Team Trials (etc., ) a LONG time ago.  After the event was over, they flew each others current model.  Billy went first and almost immediately shouted for Bob to come take the handle, he couldn't fly it, something was wrong!  Bob did so and couldn't find anything wrong.  Seems Bob was flying so much more nose heavy back then that Billy's preferences were just so far apart.  Bob says that started him on the trail to moving his CG further and further back.......

Try it stock and then build another with the mods.  You can then choose "your" preferences!

Big Bear

[Jim Kraft]

I have built 4 Midwest Magicians exactly like the plan with moveable flaps. Every one has flown very well and almost exactly alike. I do move the CG back about 1/2" or so. The first one had a Fox 35, and the rest have had McCoy 40's. It has done very well for me, as I fly it in both Classic, and PA. I have also flown it in P-40. Mine haven't been twitchy at all, and are the one plane that comes out flat in corners like in the square loop, or the reverse wingover without even trying. It is just a very easy plane to fly. It may well fly better with some mods, but since I fly mine in Classic I have just built them stock. The first three have won me a lot of trophy's in advanced, and I am far from an expert flyer.

I think the big thing with Fox 35's on profiles is that they need to be well broken in. I have built profiles with both the long mounts, and short mounts with Fox 35's, and the ones with the short mounts ran better than with the long mounts. Also, the short mounts did not loosen the joint at the wing fuse as bad. I don't pretend to know the answer to that. Maybe just a difference in wood selection. I also make the tank as solid to the fuse as I can get it for a good run. I have tried foam, and it did not work at all for me.

[john e. holliday]

If you are talking about the Brodak Original Magician, build it per the plans with no flaps.  Mine is one of the best planes I have with the Brodak .25 that is box stock.  Using Excaliber 10% with 22% oil.   Problem is the kids won't let me have it back.   

[Jim Kraft]

Yours fly's excellent Doc; It looks really neat also. You need to go get that one back. Maybe they will trade for one of your old beater planes, or not. . If you don't have any old beater planes to trade, come to my house. I have plenty.