Converting RC kits to control line.

[Mike Griffin]

Has anyone had good success doing this and if so, what has to be considered in the choice of design you are going to convert?

Thanks

Mike

[Randy Cuberly]

Hi Mike,
I think Frank Williams and Richard Oliver both did this several years ago.  I think both flew them quite a bit.  Richard may have flown his in competition also.  R/C aerobatic ARFs, I think, converted with bellcranks and used the ailerons for flaps...reportedly flew pretty well!  Full stunt pattern airplanes.

Burt Brokaw here in Tucson has a P-51 Mustang Fun Scale R/C Airplane converted to CL Scale with all the bells and whistles and electronic throttle and retracts etc....Flys well for scale...much too heavy for stunting!

Randy Cuberly

[Fred Cronenwett]

I have converted so many RC kits over to CL I have lost count.

If the plane weighs less than 20 lbs it can be converted. Pick the size you want and then do the following items:

1) install an adjustable leadout guide to adjust line tension (scale or stunt)
2) Install the bellcrank like you would normally if it was a CL model
3) I put the rudder at zero offset
4) lock off the ailerons to zero or make them flaps for CL stunt
5) Install tip weight
6) try different CG locations then what they call for RC flight, I usually but mine at 25% of the average chord for scale purposes

I install a 2.4 Ghz system for the throttle and other features that move, but control the elevator with normal bellcrank and pushrod

the 1/3 scale spacewalker from Sig has been converted to CL, 18 lbs with electric power (flown by a friend).

Good luck,
Fred

[John Stiles]

I've done a few....a P-51 mustang that had a foam core wing, flew great w/K&B .40. I have a Phaeton II I converted, but haven't flown it yet....neither have throttle control. I make double sure to mount the Bell Crank very solid. On the P-51 I put a standoff in the wingtip for the Leadouts, and took out all the dihedral. My R/C buddy saw it and wanted it so I sold it to him....he converted it back to R/C  

[mike londke]

A friend here has converted most of the Hangar 9 .60 sized warbird ARF's to CL. He installs 3 line bellcranks and throttled engines. We  fly 2 up and formation fly them, its pretty fun. He has the .60 sized  P-40, P-47, P-51, and Corsair. Also a .40 sized Pitts Special and a .90 sized Skybolt Bi-Plane. The Skybolt is something to see, very large. He managed to get the Pitts inverted a few times but it was very hard to get back upright. Full fuse RC planes don't make very good stunters. Seems I remember he bought a .40 sized Sukhoi a few years ago to see if it would stunt well. It was a failure and he got rid of it.   Mike

[Keith Miller]

I converted a Tower Uproar for e-power;

http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=31738.msg347017#msg347017

[Dave_Trible]

In the late 80's an RC flying friend did the reverse to one of my airplanes.  He put RC into my original Music.  I pulled my Tigre .46 and he put in an Enya .40 RC.  This gave a whole new meaning to 'turn around' pattern.  It was quite a handful for him so he took it very high until it ran out of fuel.  It was very strange to see my airplane flying in straight lines and doing rolls.  I'm not sure he flew it much after that.

Dave

[John Stiles]

In the late 80's an RC flying friend did the reverse to one of my airplanes.  ........... I'm not sure he flew it much after that.

Dave

I hear ya, my friend that re-converted the P-51 Mustang never mentioned still having it! And i never asked! 

[Hoss Cain]

Has anyone had good success doing this and if so, what has to be considered in the choice of design you are going to convert?

Thanks

Mike

For modelers that have flown AND BUILT both CL and RC MODELS, and therefore are familiar with the REQUIRED controls, power NEEDS available plus various structural differences, I cannot see why they should have any troubles at all. An airplane follows the aeronautical needs. In this case subsonic airflow structure determines the main rulings. Then the airplane will do what the pilot tells it to do, and it doesn't care whether the pilot-doer is using CL aeronautics or RC aeronautics. As for me, regardless of the model, I will never move a model out of subsonic airflow into trans-sonic or supersonic airflow. I have made models that could easily be moved into CL or RC. I took a 50" wingspan rubber-power kit, Brit. Hurricane, and it flew beautifully as an RC with modifications, using a .28 Brat glow engine. It finally met its second death, over-stressed a couple times and finally went away. I used old Joe-Ott rubber kit plans to do a 50" span Stuka. Minimum planking, .25 O.S. Flies fine, now in line for a recovering. The Silk went away some 8 years ago. Frame is about 25 years old.
www.easybuiltmodels.com has many large rubber kits that could easily be made RC. Same for Dare Design and Engineering now under Brodak
My bet is that with the electronic stuff of today a Modeler can have a ball. In another post I mentioned getting an old CL kit that will probably turn out to be restructured for CL.  BTW, any good CL kit can be made RC and Vice Versa.

Go get em guys. Lots of fun and good times await us. 

[donchandler]

 Converted my first R/C kit to C/L in 1979. Top Flight P51-A, 3 line bell crank, flew great and continued to do so untill around 2005. Have done  a couple Jack Stafford kits and a Top Flight P-47 that last flew at the NW Regionals in 2013. Those all had 3 line bell cranks in them. I put the lead outs firther back than Fred apparently does but nothing sceintific there, I just want the nose to stay level because of the weight of the plane.

I had a Vultee on elctroinic throttle a few years ago that Fred and his buddy helped me with and it worked well although that airplane was a handful because of the weight but it did fly smooth.

Don

[richardhfcl]

Gents,

     Our former District VI V.P., Charlie Bauer,  has made scale models which can be flown in both R.C. Scale and control line scale, depending
upon whether or not he uses his bellcrank assembly or his radio receiver.  One example was his Skyraider, I believe, which had served in both
R.C. and control line events.  Yup, so long as he kept it sub-sonic.

[Scott Richlen]

I have converted both a SIG Faser and a Tower Fun-51 to fly profile stunt.  However, I changed almost every dimension on the plans to do so.  I essentially treated the kit as a balsa supply and took it as a challenge to make it into a profile stunt ship.

In the end, it would have taken less time and effort to scratch build a full blown stunt ship.

Scott

[john e. holliday]

Gene Dunham was doing the CL conversion on the Top Flite kits years ago in the early 60's of their scale kits.   You ever seen a Top Flite P-51 inside a 55 Ford 2dr.   He was driving my Ford and his nephew was under the plane in the back seat.   I had just finished evening shift and we were headed to Wichita for a control line contest.  All the other planes were in the trunk with the support gear.

[Brett Buck]

Has anyone had good success doing this and if so, what has to be considered in the choice of design you are going to convert?

    A fair number of people have converted RC "3D" ARFs to CL with some success. Richard Oliver did several of them, and then made a similar model from scratch and flew it at a Team Trials. He did fairly well with it, didn't make the team but so didn't a lot of other people, me included.

    Brett

[Mike Griffin]

Thank you all for the input...I appreciate it very much

Mike

[Hoss Cain]

Gents,

     Our former District VI V.P., Charlie Bauer,  has made scale models which can be flown in both R.C. Scale and control line scale, depending
upon whether or not he uses his bellcrank assembly or his radio receiver.  One example was his Skyraider, I believe, which had served in both
R.C. and control line events.  Yup, so long as he kept it sub-sonic.

If it can be done, Charlie Bauer can do it. He is a GREAT MODELER. I have not heard from him in a long time. I still have one of his Skyraider kits up in the kit wall in my barn. I better get that done - soon now!   

[Paul Wescott]

Follow up question: How much should a Control Line model with a 57" wingspan (+/-), 580 Sq In wing, weigh?  Also how long should it be?

Below are the specs that I grabbed for a current RC model from Tower's site, and for four CL models for comparison.  96 ounces?  Will that even fly in a circle?  Also the 50" length is at least 10" longer than the CL models.  Maybe they are measuring it differently.  Still 96 ounces sounds like a pair of airplanes.

Anyone?

RADIO CONTROL:
Great Planes P-51D Mustang 40  (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJ571&P=0)
57" Wingspan
580 Sq In (symmetrical airfoil)
Length 50"
6 pounds (96 ounces)
Engine .40-.46 2-stroke

CONTROL LINE:
Ted Fancher's "Doctor"
56" wingspan
586 Sq In
Length 37"
Engine .35-.51 2-stroke

P-40K Tiger
56" wingspan
560 Sq In
Length 39.5"
Engine .40-.46 2-stroke

P-51D Mustang (RSM)
56" Wingspan
610 Sq In
Length 39"
Engine .46-.60 2-stroke

Skylark
57" Wingspan
614 Sq In
Length 40"
Engine .46 2-stroke

[Fred Cronenwett]

If you are flying Scale I like to keep models with that wing span to about 6 lbs, at 25 ounces per square foot it puts the weight at 6.3 lbs

Larger models can tolerate up to 33 ounces per square foot

Fred

[Paul Wescott]

Hi Mike,
I think Frank Williams and Richard Oliver both did this several years ago.  I think both flew them quite a bit.  Richard may have flown his in competition also.  R/C aerobatic ARFs, I think, converted with bellcranks and used the ailerons for flaps...reportedly flew pretty well!  Full stunt pattern airplanes.

Burt Brokaw here in Tucson has a P-51 Mustang Fun Scale R/C Airplane converted to CL Scale with all the bells and whistles and electronic throttle and retracts etc....Flys well for scale...much too heavy for stunting!

Randy Cuberly

Attached is a pic of Burt with his Fun Scale P-51 ARF at the Knights of the Round Circle Sir Dale Kirn's Knights Joust at Whittier Narrows August 10th, 2013
from: https://www.flickr.com/photos/star-paul-star/sets/72157635282804738/

Paul

[Randy Cuberly]

Follow up question: How much should a Control Line model with a 57" wingspan (+/-), 580 Sq In wing, weigh?  Also how long should it be?

Below are the specs that I grabbed for a current RC model from Tower's site, and for four CL models for comparison.  96 ounces?  Will that even fly in a circle?  Also the 50" length is at least 10" longer than the CL models.  Maybe they are measuring it differently.  Still 96 ounces sounds like a pair of airplanes.

Anyone?

RADIO CONTROL:
Great Planes P-51D Mustang 40  (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJ571&P=0)
57" Wingspan
580 Sq In (symmetrical airfoil)
Length 50"
6 pounds (96 ounces)
Engine .40-.46 2-stroke

CONTROL LINE:
Ted Fancher's "Doctor"
56" wingspan
586 Sq In
Length 37"
Engine .35-.51 2-stroke

P-40K Tiger
56" wingspan
560 Sq In
Length 39.5"
Engine .40-.46 2-stroke

P-51D Mustang (RSM)
56" Wingspan
610 Sq In
Length 39"
Engine .46-.60 2-stroke

Skylark
57" Wingspan
614 Sq In
Length 40"
Engine .46 2-stroke

Since this is an R/C kit and the stated 6 lb weight is probably a max reccommended flying weight and would include radio, retracts, batteries, servos, etc., I'm sure this airplane could be put in the air with an AX46 or AX55 around 72-74 oz.  Yes that's still pretty heavy for a 580 sq in CL airplane, but could likely be flown in som "sport type" stunt maneuvers, and definitely could be flown for sport scale.
It most definitely could not be competitive at the Team Trials.
Compare it to a Rabe Mustang at around 620 sq in and 58 oz.

The airplanes used by Richard Oliver, and Frank Williams were ARFs of Aerobatic R/C aircraft and are actually pretty light construction.  When you consider dropping the R/C stuff, especially the servos and batteries things get in a reasonable weight range.  You do generally need a larger engine than specified for R/C due the the line drag...much greater than the "clean" R/C airframe!

Randy Cuberly
PS:  I actually expected one of those guys to weigh in on this subject by now!

[Walter Hicks]

The best one was Giles 202 3D that Richard Oliver flew , I have had several they fly very,very well. However this one is not made anymore.The picture is mine that I flew RO Jett 67 RE 57 oz!<a href="http://s82.photobucket.com/user/kickercoach12/media/KATANAGILES202005.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j262/kickercoach12/KATANAGILES202005.jpg" border="0" alt="GILES 202 RO JETT .67, 57 OZ! photo KATANAGILES202005.jpg"/>[/url]

[Paul Wescott]

You do generally need a larger engine than specified for R/C due the the line drag...much greater than the "clean" R/C airframe!

Randy Cuberly

So THAT's why CL mills tend to be larger!  Just never seen it in print, or put 2 and 2 together.  And the lightbulb goes on...

Paul