composite built up wing looking for imput

[jose modesto]

the two photos attached are of a composite shell wings one is solid surface the other requires covering of entire wing with silkspan.
what do you guys think. The open bay wing will build lighter than the solid surface. maybe this will pass the new ruling as a commercial product.
I'm trying to save the investment and the 3 years of development. Open bay wing panel was developed as the wing panels were coming out heavier than i wanted. With the combination of the shells and the Hunt lost foam system i can get a lighter wing that requires covering. necessity is the mother of invention. The wings shown were constructed in 2003 my current technology the wood wraps the tips and carbon fiber tips are no longer used and the panel are lighter than in 2003
Jose modesto

[Randy Powell]

Hmmm, Jose Yatsenko?

[jose modesto]

Randy just for bragging these were done in 2003 i dint see a shark until 2004. All original work. I know we all stand on the shoulders of others.
Wyndy's Miss Ashley was the impetus for my composite journey(airplanes and his building Miss Ashley wing tapes were the beginning.
I had read an article in 1980's about sail boat hull in Model airplane News and i made my first mold and i cast a boat hull later used used the technology to form a women accessories company lot of fun.
Jose Modesto

[RandySmith]

the two photos attached are of a composite shell wings one is solid surface the other requires covering of entire wing with silkspan.
what do you guys think. The open bay wing will build lighter than the solid surface. maybe this will pass the new ruling as a commercial product.
I'm trying to save the investment and the 3 years of development. Open bay wing panel was developed as the wing panels were coming out heavier than i wanted. With the combination of the shells and the Hunt lost foam system i can get a lighter wing that requires covering. necessity is the mother of invention. The wings shown were constructed in 2003 my current technology the wood wraps the tips and carbon fiber tips are no longer used and the panel are lighter than in 2003
Jose modesto

Jose

That looks to me like an ARC , which is perfectly OK with the current BOM rule from the AMA

Randy

[jose modesto]

Thanks Randy there is hope.
The model in the photo uses this type of wing construction.
 Model= The Hawk 2003 (Cardinal killer) this was my answer to the bad motor run of the profile Cardinal. inverted full body engine and tank, with profile fuse to the tail. Hey PTG this looks a little like your new E  Elroy. I made all the composite pieces and then gave them to Mr. Neil Beekman who took  the pieces home and constructed the model. With covering as he is a jet fan you get the colors.
Randy S.  I'm building SV22 composite.  Built up shell wing.
Jose Modesto

[Rudy Taube]

Hi Jose,

1. What Randy Smith said. 

2. Please send me an email so I can send one to you. Your email link on here does not go through. TIA

[Mark Scarborough]

Jose,
is there glass on the exterior of the balsa skins,, ? if so perhaps its considered covered, if the glass is on the inside of the balsa skin, then it would not be covered IMHO

[RandySmith]

Those are  open bay wing panels....Open bay wing must be covered before use, So the builder would have to "cover" them

Randy

[john e. holliday]

Even tho I got an E-Mail about my opinions and the discouraging of new comers to model planes, I would not hesitate to order the component parts and assemble for competition.  If I one of Windy's, Bill W's or even Brett's planes trimmed to my style of flying it would not help my score any.  I like the construction.

[jose modesto]

Photos of wood shell composite open bay wing.
The wing is built in a Bob Hunt LOST FOAM WING JIG. The ribs are cut from the lost foam wing jig templates.
Objective. to create a composite shell built up wing that is BOM compliant.
Photo #1 solid balsa composite wing shells. Wing panels resting in LFW jig with area outlined to be removed.
Photo#2 wood shell cut out for built up wing
Photo#3 one half wing panel resting in LFW jig
photo#4 one half wing panel opened showing ribs and spar's
Jose Modesto

[Randy Powell]

Just kidding you, Jose. That is pretty slick. Neat idea.

[Lauri Malila]

 Hi Jose.

 Nice work. I know how much work and investments such tooling require, so I really hope that you have success with your project.
 Especially from the last 4 pictures I get the impression that the purpose of this new construction method is mainly to please the BOM-lovers (Correct me if I'm wrong, I have nothing to say about that matter.), and because of that the structural "intelligence" suffers a little bit.
 First problem that I see is the strenght loss in capstrips. YES they have glass reinforcement on both sides, it seems, but that does not help much in compression stress when the wood grains are not parallel to rib. Capstrips do important work and too often their importance is neglected in classical construction. A stunt wing is quite forgiving as it is so thick.
 A better example of the importance of capstrips is the wing of a modern FF glider. I sometimes break ribs during a strong launch, and even one broken rib usually makes the model unflyable. And there is nearly 100 ribs in a wing..! I have also broken my own ribs in a strong launch. Not nice either
 The other problem I see is a little twofold. To me the beauty of molding is, that everything is built into the mold, mold closed and after curing a nice and accurate (depending of mold quality, of course) part is popped out of the mold. I could not imagine myself removing half-finished shells from the mold before assembly but I also see a positive side in it: It allows the builder to "play" a little with warps to get a straight final product. Also, it allows the builder to modify the dimensions more that with fully molded parts. Quite often the development stops when molds are made.
 When I think how I would benefit best from molded parts, at the same time having to please the ones who want that things at least look like that they could have been made in 50īs, I would propably think of a fully molded D-box structure with built-in spars, shear webs and why not take-apart elements too. Maybe the same idea for t.e too, leaving the structure between those two to be made with classical methods.

 Lauri

[Bill Little]

Hi Jose,

I cannot see anything that would *rule* that "illegal" under the current BOM! 

Looks like you have a winner!  Best wishes for the sales.   If I could EVER get hold of you (why you blocking me out, Brother?? ) I would like to talk to you about this and some other ideas.  We've eaten supper together, you know I don't bite, or rip off limbs, in person.

Bill

[jose modesto]

Guys thanks for the Input. I should of added the following photos.
The ribs at the high point between spars have a 1/16" vertical grain balsa doubler. At trailing edge i have a 1/16"vertical grain balsa shear web.
For main spar shear web i use diagonal 1/8"x1/8" 15 pound stock with a bridge connecting the diagonal at the center double triangles .
My objective was to create a Bob Hunt LFW
Jose Modesto 

[Steve Helmick]

I'm liking the molded wingtips. I've been pondering how to do that for awhile, mostly at work... Steve