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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Robert Zambelli on March 16, 2020, 09:29:56 PM

Title: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Robert Zambelli on March 16, 2020, 09:29:56 PM
This is an interesting article.

Compared to what?
by Heather Mac Donald

On the misguided response to COVID-19.
Compared to what? That should be the question that every fear-mongering news story on the coronavirus has to start with. So far, the United States has seen forty-one deaths from the infection. Twenty-two of those deaths occurred in one poorly run nursing home outside of Seattle, the Life Care Center. Another nine deaths occurred in the rest of Washington state, leaving ten deaths (four in California, two in Florida, and one in each of Georgia, Kansas, New Jersey, and South Dakota) spread throughout the rest of the approximately 329 million residents of the United States. This represents roughly .000012 percent of the U.S. population.
Much has been made of the “exponential” rate of infection in European and Asian countries—as if the spread of all transmittable diseases did not develop along geometric, as opposed to arithmetic, growth patterns. What actually matters is whether or not the growing “pandemic” overwhelms our ability to ensure the well-being of U.S. residents with efficiency and precision. But fear of the disease, and not the disease itself, has already spoiled that for us. Even if my odds of dying from coronavirus should suddenly jump ten-thousand-fold, from the current rate of .000012 percent across the U.S. population all the way up to .12 percent, I’d happily take those odds over the destruction being wrought on the U.S. and global economy from this unbridled panic.
By comparison, there were 38,800 traffic fatalities in the United States in 2019, the National Safety Council estimates. That represents an average of over one hundred traffic deaths every day; if the press catalogued these in as much painstaking detail as they have deaths from coronavirus, highways nationwide would be as empty as New York subways are now. Even assuming that coronavirus deaths in the United States increase by a factor of one thousand over the year, the resulting deaths would only outnumber annual traffic deaths by 2,200. Shutting down highways would have a much more positive effect on the U.S. mortality rate than shutting down the U.S. economy to try to prevent the spread of the virus.
There have been 5,123 deaths worldwide so far—also a fraction of traffic deaths worldwide. And unlike coronavirus, driving kills indiscriminately, mowing down the young and the old, the sick and the healthy. The coronavirus, by comparison, is targeted in its lethality, overwhelmingly striking the elderly or the already severely sick. As of Monday, approximately 89 percent of Italy’s coronavirus deaths had been over the age of seventy, according to The Wall Street Journal. Sad to say, those victims were already nearing the end of their lifespans. They might have soon died from another illness. No child under the age of nine has died from the illness worldwide. In China, only one individual in the ten-to-nineteen age group has succumbed.
Comparing the relative value of lives makes for grisly calculus, but one is forced to ask: are we missing the forest for the trees? If the measures we undertake to protect a vulnerable few end up exposing them, along with the rest of society, to even more damaging risks—was it worth the cost?
An example: there were 34,200 deaths in the United States during the 2018–19 influenza season estimates the CDC. We did not shut down public events and institutions to try to slow the spread of the flu. Yet we have already destroyed $5 trillion in stock market wealth over the last few weeks in the growing coronavirus panic, reports The New York Times, wiping out retirement savings for many.
The number of cases in most afflicted countries is paltry. As of today, 127 countries had reported some cases, but forty-eight of those countries had fewer than ten cases, according to Worldometer. At this point, more people have recovered from the virus than are still sick. But the damage to people’s livelihoods through the resulting economic contraction is real and widespread. Its health consequences will be more severe than those of the coronavirus, as Steve Malanga shows in City Journal. The people who can least afford to lose jobs will be the hardest hit by the assault on tourism. Small entrepreneurs, whether in manufacturing or the service sector, will struggle to stay afloat. Such unjustified, unpredicted economic havoc undermines government legitimacy.
President Trump has been criticized for not being apocalyptic enough in his press conferences. In fact, he should be even more skeptical of the panic than he has been. He should relentlessly put the coronavirus risk into context with opioid deaths, homicide deaths—about sixteen thousand a year in the United States—flu deaths, and traffic deaths. One might have thought New York governor Andrew Cuomo a voice of reason when, a few days ago, he tried to tamp down the hysteria in a press conference, saying: “This is not Ebola, this is not sars, this is not some science fiction movie come to life. The hysteria here is way out of line with the actuality and the facts.” And yet since then he called a state of emergency in New York, and he and Mayor Bill de Blasio have all but shut down the New York City economy. They, like most all U.S. politicians nowadays, have shown an overwhelming impulse to be irrationally risk-averse.
Rather than indiscriminately shutting down public events and travel, we should target prevention where it is most needed: in nursing homes and hospitals.
It is hard to imagine that the panicked leaders and populace of today would have been able to triumph in the last century’s World Wars. America’s colleges sent off thousands of their young men to fight and die in those wars; those students went off with conviction and courage. Currently, colleges and universities are shutting down with no hint of the virus in their vicinity. Would today’s panicked leaders and populace be able to triumph in the face of a World War, or some other legitimately comparable threat? Let’s hope that we do not have to find out.
Heather Mac Donald is the Thomas W. Smith fellow at the Manhattan Institute and author of The Diversity Delusion (St. Martin’s Press) and The War on Cops (Encounter).

Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan McEntee on March 16, 2020, 09:48:09 PM
   Excellent article and the truth that no one wants to hear. I do not fear the disease, I fear the alleged "cure." I'm 65 and have dealt with double pneumonia in my life time, so that puts me at some extra "risk." If the virus were to suddenly disappear tomorrow, the ripple effect of actions taken so far would undulate for a long time and reach a long way.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: wwwarbird on March 16, 2020, 10:19:46 PM
   I do not fear the disease, I fear the alleged "cure." If the virus were to suddenly disappear tomorrow, the ripple effect of actions taken so far would undulate for a long time and reach a long way.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

 Ditto.

 Yes, it's a problem, but this whole "pandemic" is way more about a political agenda than anything else. Even though there is one on this forum offering excellent explanations and viewpoints on the subject, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who the parties behind creating and fueling the panic are. And, those same parties have now lowered themselves to being completely fine with destroying our country's economy. It's hard to imagine anything more disgraceful than what we're all currently getting shoved up our a__es.  D>K
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 16, 2020, 10:43:26 PM
Overwhelmed hospitals in Italy. Theatrics. Movie making. Fiction. French shut down. Fakers. All those Europeans. Besides we know about them. China. Inscrutable. Like in those movies of the 1930s. What are they up to?


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 16, 2020, 10:45:12 PM
“Compared to What,” is that a jazzbo song?


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 16, 2020, 10:50:48 PM
Overwhelmed hospitals in Italy. Theatrics. Movie making. Fiction. French shut down. Fakers. All those Europeans. Besides we know about them. China. Inscrutable.

   But gosh, they all have socialized medicine. I thought that was going to fix everything.

     Instead they are talking about letting anyone >80 die because, you know, they have had a long life and they would take up valuable state resources. Presumably to be decided by some sort of committee, or panel.

   Thanks for adding so much intelligent analysis to this discussion, what we would be do without you to point this stuff out to us?

      Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 16, 2020, 10:55:27 PM
Over 65, if you’re diabetic, pre diabetic, heart disease, smoked some, got a pot belly, or whatever health compromise, only a 15 percent chance you’ll shuffle off this mortal coil. What the heck. Chinese statistics.


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Larry Fernandez on March 17, 2020, 01:23:01 AM
Thank you Mr Zambell!!
This post is so on the mark but the problem is that those with any intelligents will understand and believe this, but
the scary thing is, all the lefty liberals with IQs of a dirt clod buying into the BS left agenda.
They will do all they can to trash our economy, and blame it on Trump using this pandemic to get voters to fall for
their twisted, slanted views.
God help this great country.
Thanks again Bob, keep up the good fight

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: John Park on March 17, 2020, 03:23:38 AM
The response here in Britain is aimed at 'flattening the curve' so as to reduce the number of severe cases at any one time to a level with which the hospitals can cope.  As a nation, we tend to be quite good at not losing our heads, and anyway we're not really all that gregarious.  My wife and I (in our 70s, both fit and well) took our usual three-mile walk this morning in our mile-square local park, and passed about half a dozen people.  The initial panic in the shops (people stockpiling toilet paper, of all things!) seems to have died down, and I for one am fairly confident that we'll get through it without the loss of life seen in Italy.  So far, so good, anyway.

John
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 17, 2020, 05:00:32 AM
We are taking these radical measures so our health system doesn’t collapse dragging with it much of the fragile system we depend on to stay alive. We have a month or two lead time. Up to us to use it or fail en mass.


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Title: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 17, 2020, 05:11:27 AM
Massimo, I was being ironic, I hope that translated. Thank you for communicating the realties of your situation. It must be very hard to do this. Perhaps it will help. Thank you again.


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Title: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 17, 2020, 05:33:51 AM
You’ve heard testimonies now of people experiencing a reality on its way here. Up to you.


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: John Hammonds on March 17, 2020, 07:28:59 AM
At this point in time I'm more worried about human nature than the actual virus. :(

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/16/us-sales-guns-ammunition-soar-amid-coronavirus-panic-buying

I think some people have been watching too many "Walking Dead" episodes.

TTFN
John.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Gerald Arana on March 17, 2020, 07:52:28 AM
Thank you Mr Zambell!!
This post is so on the mark but the problem is that those with any intelligents will understand and believe this, but
the scary thing is, all the lefty liberals with IQs of a dirt clod buying into the BS left agenda.
They will do all they can to trash our economy, and blame it on Trump using this pandemic to get voters to fall for
their twisted, slanted views.
God help this great country.
Thanks again Bob, keep up the good fight

Larry, Buttafucco Stunt Team


X2

Jerry
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Jim Mynes on March 17, 2020, 08:52:24 AM
Hoarding toilet paper might seem like a silly thing to many. In fact, I think it’s ludicrous. But the fact remains, the store shelves are empty, and when you get down to your last roll your personal panic may ensue.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: John Hammonds on March 17, 2020, 09:11:22 AM
Hoarding toilet paper might seem like a silly thing to many. In fact, I think it’s ludicrous. But the fact remains, the store shelves are empty, and when you get down to your last roll your personal panic may ensue.

It's probably because 1 person sneezes and 50 people S**t themselves...

TTFN
John.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom Vieira on March 17, 2020, 09:23:09 AM
Hoarding toilet paper might seem like a silly thing to many. In fact, I think it’s ludicrous. But the fact remains, the store shelves are empty, and when you get down to your last roll your personal panic may ensue.

that's what towels are for, rinse wash and reuse....

if the power goes out or the water shuts off, that's when you'll see people flip out, not running out of TP...
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: John Park on March 17, 2020, 09:43:18 AM
Hoarding toilet paper might seem like a silly thing to many. In fact, I think it’s ludicrous. But the fact remains, the store shelves are empty, and when you get down to your last roll your personal panic may ensue.
That's all died down in my neck of the woods - there's more TP on the shelves than you could shake a stick at.  What's short now is the anti-bacterial cleaner you spray on your kitchen worktops etc., and I bet that'll be back in stock tomorrow. I just hope it's anti-viral as well as anti-bacterial!
Just to give an idea of the scale of the problem: in my County in the south of England, with a little over a million people in it, the total number who've so far tested positive for the virus is 25.  As they're only testing hospital admissions, there may of course be very many more who've got it/had it but have not been badly enough affected to need hospital treatment.  The trick seems to be: if you're young, don't worry about getting it but take care not to pass it on.  If you're old, keep your distance from EVERYBODY.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 17, 2020, 10:07:11 AM
Guess some folks will change their talking points now. The message has been revised.


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve Helmick on March 17, 2020, 10:39:57 AM
Can somebody please ship me some TP? I need some to blot off excess epoxy on a sheeted foam wing.  ;) Steve
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Lauri Malila on March 17, 2020, 11:21:00 AM
I hope you are safe and well on that side of the Alps, Massimo. L
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: FLOYD CARTER on March 17, 2020, 11:40:09 AM
All those nice folks on Wall Street, with their automated-computers, which have all created "sell" orders, have depleted my life savings, which were heavily invested .
That money was not or my use, but intended for my grandkids in my estate.  Now, thanks to greedy day-traders, my family is now on their own, and my contribution now has little to offer.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Serge_Krauss on March 17, 2020, 12:04:53 PM
Just an FYI:

2503 dead in Italy currently (7.9% of known infected)

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-cancer-mortality-rate-1980-2015
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom Vieira on March 17, 2020, 12:32:17 PM
All those nice folks on Wall Street, with their automated-computers, which have all created "sell" orders, have depleted my life savings, which were heavily invested .
That money was not or my use, but intended for my grandkids in my estate.  Now, thanks to greedy day-traders, my family is now on their own, and my contribution now has little to offer.

gotta ride the wave....  unless the company disappears you had money in, it'll come around eventually.  Granted, i'm only 36, but i'm not touching my investments, and considering dropping every penny I have in to the market once it looks like it bottoms out.

man, it'd be nice to be one of those people who have figured out how to make money just if the market moves (doesn't matter up or down, just moves)....
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve Dwyer on March 17, 2020, 12:54:39 PM
Ready for the next debacle?

As we all know use of wipes has been a sticking point with many wastewater treatment facilities for some time. The nondegradable wipes do not breakdown as does toilet paper and many facilities have posted shots of what they call monster clogs. The wipes become cemented together with oils and fats that were washed down drains.  They are being called “fatbergs”, and costly to remove. Some have been found as large as a bus. Some municipalities have even filed lawsuits with the companies manufacturing the wipes.

So what's to come?  We all know many will be resorting to paper towels and rags in addition to wipes as they remain available for the cleanup task in the absence of TP. The next alternative paper towels are close to wipes, they don't break down quickly and certainly will cause havoc.

Considering how it's only been a little over a week since the TP scarcity surfaced how long will it take before street sewer lines will become restricted with masses of paper towels? Most insurance companies will cover the consequential clean up resulting from the backup but cost to excavate and repair the line out is generally not a covered peril. Will Washington bail us out? I'm gonna chuckle the day a reporter asks Mike and Donald for a Sewer Line Stimulus" in view of the COVID-19 catastrophe.

Gotta have fun somehow!!

Steve




Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve Dwyer on March 17, 2020, 12:58:18 PM
T.J. What you are looking for is a guaranteed annuity. As for the market good luck there's no guarantee there.

Steve
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom Vieira on March 17, 2020, 12:59:19 PM
nomnomnomnom......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH7IwiHFVMs
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom Vieira on March 17, 2020, 01:00:57 PM
T.J. What you are looking for is a guaranteed annuity. As for the market good luck there's no guarantee there.

Steve

nope, no guarantees at all.  but, with the way the economy and "civilization" is set up, if it tanks globally, money of any sort won't matter much anyhow.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 17, 2020, 02:09:44 PM
So far market is green today


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 17, 2020, 02:46:26 PM
Just an FYI:

2503 dead in Italy currently (7.9% of known infected)

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-cancer-mortality-rate-1980-2015

    Right. That's what happens when you put the least efficient organization in any country - the government - in charge of something. And when it proves again to not work, then, we have the same people that created the situation weeping and rending their garments over the "tragedy". *That they themselves caused*. And their solution - do it some more! 

    The American left has been doing their level best to destroy out health care system (so they can replace it with their own) for 30+ years, basically so they could make it work like the European system that just killed 2500 people over the flu.

    Well, mission nearly accomplished - that's why the left is practically dancing in the streets and pulling for more people to die, so that they can "prove" that the system needs to get blown up and replaced completely. And not take even a slight responsibility for the results.

     And, as a side effect, put the government in final and ultimate control of everyone's lives - note the many admiring nods toward's China's response, which woudl have made the Nazis blush. Every little Hitler like Newsome, London Breed, etc, will be empowered to tell you where to go, when, how, and have you asking for permission.

     An observation - in the Bay Area, it is now nominally legal to smoke dope, but illegal to go to work. That what you let a bucnh of aging hippies run the world.

    Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: john e. holliday on March 17, 2020, 03:16:10 PM
It still amazes me how many can't remember the history of the past.  All the viruses that were to catastrophic and natures helps in getting rid of the human population.   If only the person who stated this mess could be held accountable like the impeachment show that didn't pan out.  Time running out on destroying our President before he is re-elected.   All politicians should be replaced or made tp out of their own pay check for the damage they have done.

Now in my area they are shutting the doors of restaurants, movie theaters and bars.   Any business with drive up or drive through allowed to stay open.  Wife and I went and got stuff we needed for the pets plus ourselves.  Shelves being replenished it was not crowded.  But, it is back to the shop for me and awaiting flying weather. D>K
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Robert Zambelli on March 17, 2020, 03:47:35 PM
Well said, Brett   y1   y1


    Right. That's what happens when you put the least efficient organization in any country - the government - in charge of something. And when it proves again to not work, then, we have the same people that created the situation weeping and rending their garments over the "tragedy". *That they themselves caused*. And their solution - do it some more! 

    The American left has been doing their level best to destroy out health care system (so they can replace it with their own) for 30+ years, basically so they could make it work like the European system that just killed 2500 people over the flu.

    Well, mission nearly accomplished - that's why the left is practically dancing in the streets and pulling for more people to die, so that they can "prove" that the system needs to get blown up and replaced completely. And not take even a slight responsibility for the results.

     And, as a side effect, put the government in final and ultimate control of everyone's lives - note the many admiring nods toward's China's response, which woudl have made the Nazis blush. Every little Hitler like Newsome, London Breed, etc, will be empowered to tell you where to go, when, how, and have you asking for permission.

     An observation - in the Bay Area, it is now nominally legal to smoke dope, but illegal to go to work. That what you let a bucnh of aging hippies run the world.

    Brett
Title: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 17, 2020, 04:35:12 PM
What happened to it’s a hoax? Apparently conservatives can whip 180 degrees, a backwards, without a blink. How do you swivel that fast? Without embarrassment? Well trained seals. Or. Lemmings. What’s the sound seals make. Arff. Arff. Dogs do that.


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 17, 2020, 04:55:35 PM
Happy to see HIM finally, way late, take some positive steps to benefit the other 99 percent. Us.


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan Berry on March 17, 2020, 05:07:04 PM
Happy to see HIM finally, way late, take some positive steps to benefit the other 99 percent. Us.


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No, you aren't.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 17, 2020, 05:12:01 PM
Relieved. Thank you. Better word. He’ll f-up. Again. And again. Putin will order him to step up the chaos and confusion in a day or two.


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 17, 2020, 05:29:59 PM
What happened to it’s a hoax? Apparently conservatives can whip 180 degrees, a backwards, without a blink. How do you swivel that fast? Without embarrassment?

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Moritz, who said it's a hoax?  I hope you have more intelligence than to quote a badly edited Biden commercial!

I believe reality is somewhere between the extremes ... 24/7 news and numbers isn't curing anything.  I try to focus on things I can exercise control over, and not worry too much about those things I can't control.  Think about it - people walking out of supermarkets with every roll of toilet paper they can find are simply reacting to the feeling of not having control over the virus, no matter how misguided they may be.

Those of us who are - dare I say "elderly"? - can avoid crowds yada yada, but I'm not going to crawl under a rock.  And doctors tell us letting stress govern us is a sure way to weaken our immune system.

I'm told Yellowstone experienced something like 330 tremors during the month of February, most coming in a group of 3 "waves".  One scientist actually stated it might erupt within a week.  Anyone here making feverish preparations for that?

Since I have absolutely zip control over Yellowstone, I'm going to spend absolutely zip time worrying about it - my son and I hope to visit it again this summer, in fact.

I really do feel tremendous animosity towards those using this crisis to make political hay - like the Progressive who remarked the virus is actually useful in that it mostly kills the elderly, the group most resistant to climate change theories.

"Never let a serious crisis go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel, Obama's first Chief of Staff, later Mayor of Chicago


Dennis

PS: My good friend & high school flying buddy Tom showing how he copes ...
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: John Leidle on March 17, 2020, 05:33:25 PM
   Has anyone noticed the traffic in Seattle ?  It's  4:30 PDT and all highways & freeways are wide open. I found myself going 80 MPH on the way home from flying this  noon.  This traffic is like I found my time machine & set it to 1970........
               John L.
Title: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 17, 2020, 05:38:06 PM
HE said it was a hoax. Freedom Fighter Rush said it was a hoax. (Not Howard) Apoplectic baby boy Sean said it was a hoax. Your orange bag of lies, deception, incompetence and recriminations over and over, said it was a hoax. That mean, destructive devastator, conservatives put in office. HIM. Hoax, hoax, hoax. The conservative alter-ego. Hoax, hoax, hoax. Makes me think of Karma. .


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Mike Griffin on March 17, 2020, 06:43:36 PM
To what Brett posted earlier:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/14/italians-80-will-left-die-country-overwhelmed-coronavirus/?fbclid=IwAR05Fq6a-bdXFC6o80TTONDXAMp3Lybfv7oCcSYMNZHlsYCwGjt4tN9gTJM

Mike
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Bob Heywood on March 17, 2020, 06:50:38 PM
"The King of Cool" would know what to do...
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Mike Griffin on March 17, 2020, 06:59:31 PM
Wonder how the socialist loving libs are enjoying the trial run?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/mar/17/america-with-coronavirus-gets-a-taste-of-socialism/?utm_source=FreedomWorks&utm_medium=TWTlink&utm_campaign=FWref&fbclid=IwAR3wyg5N4SpsvUG6eGtGLJdM39qEdoeQyDNpBZCax069Ptt_mu31oUTKMTQ
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Larry Renger on March 17, 2020, 07:48:01 PM
You can talk about statistics but let’s get personal I am 77 have high blood pressure and respond badly to illness. If this thing gets me I could be dead.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 17, 2020, 08:17:02 PM
You can talk about statistics but let’s get personal I am 77 have high blood pressure and respond badly to illness. If this thing gets me I could be dead.

Larry, I've enjoyed your designs, much appreciated advice & information you've offered through private messages and email, think you're one of the "good guys", and hope you'll share with us for many more years.

Please don't let worry diminish your quality of life, remember you're "An Army of One".  And please appreciate all the years we've been given!  Any one of us could be hit by a truck tomorrow.  The last people on earth I'd want to suffer are the children who haven't had our opportunities.

Dennis   
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve Dwyer on March 17, 2020, 10:29:53 PM
A hoax? Isn’t it all we really wanted at the onset was to see empathy for the possible loss of people and assurance our best interest was being considered and not the personal impact it would have on our leader’s election?  What is a country to do if it lacks the equipment to save everyone? We shouldn’t be belittling people forced to make such a heartfelt decision. I’d step aside for my kids or grandkids in a heartbeat if it was a life and death situation because of the love I have for them. This is the way we are programmed, there has to be a framework for making a life and death decision and NY tonight is attempting to establish guidelines. How sad we have arrived at such a point. We can only hope the action we are now feverishly attempting isn’t too late to accommodate the needed care that will most certainly be required in the face of overwhelming odds.

We need (must) make a concerted effort here, we need to put aside partisan finger-pointing. This isn’t about one side trying to dump the economy or dancing in the streets. Our leaders have to reach out at this time, stop calling each other names, show some respect and above all sincere compassion. There is no left or right at this point and everyone has to accept this, I think we can, I only hope Washington can. Anyone that believes this was prompted by the left to rid the president is out if their mind. This is a catastrophe, whether more or less serious compared to some prior outbreak what does it matter? This is now.  People in all reality have become frustrated and angry, feeling real fear and reacting accordingly this is normal behavior.

Perhaps people running out to stock up on toilet paper or ammo is an attempt to overcome their fear and attempt to alleviate it. Do we really think this virus will precipitate some form of take over by one faction or another? This is nuts, and yes we probably are going to see our obituaries fill the newspapers as in Italy. Bitterness, frustration, opinionated hatred has no place here it’s time to let it go  People are going to die possibly even some of us, not all of us are not in the best condition to deal with this. We have little control except to take the action our leaders are impressing on us. We do have an option, however, to turn to our faith and believe the people of all parties voted to lead us will have the conscience and clarity to do what is best. What else is there?  I hope this makes some sense.

Best regards,

Steve
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 17, 2020, 11:10:35 PM
What happened to it’s a hoax? Apparently conservatives can whip 180 degrees, a backwards, without a blink. How do you swivel that fast? Without embarrassment? Well trained seals. Or. Lemmings. What’s the sound seals make. Arff. Arff. Dogs do that.

    Who did that? You guys are the ones playing "virus porn" 24-7, practically salivating at your hope that everyone panics. It wont be long before MSNBC posts a counter on the screen, counting off the "Trump Coronavirus Death Count", and talking about "another grim milestone" in grave tones. Dodging your responsibility for the panic and trying to deflect it into a "Trump" issue.

 This thing started in a Communist Country, so now, you can't call it the Wuhan Flu, because that reflects badly on The Party.

    A bad flu is a real problem, but how do you deal with it? Hype it and hype until idiots are stabbing each other over toilet paper because they think this is the end. That is 100% ON YOU AND YOUR ILK, YOU CAUSED IT.

   Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 17, 2020, 11:17:27 PM
Looks like building season just got extended.  I think this virus may actually save lives.  I drove home from work today at 5:30 and averaged 60mph which is a 50mph improvement....no cars = no car crashes.

Brett, relax!  Once they are properly brainwashed logic is useless.

Ken

Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: katana on March 18, 2020, 04:36:33 AM
A hoax? Isn’t it all we really wanted at the onset was to see empathy for the possible loss of people and assurance our best interest was being considered and not the personal impact it would have on our leader’s election?  What is a country to do if it lacks the equipment to save everyone? We shouldn’t be belittling people forced to make such a heartfelt decision. I’d step aside for my kids or grandkids in a heartbeat if it was a life and death situation because of the love I have for them. This is the way we are programmed, there has to be a framework for making a life and death decision and NY tonight is attempting to establish guidelines. How sad we have arrived at such a point. We can only hope the action we are now feverishly attempting isn’t too late to accommodate the needed care that will most certainly be required in the face of overwhelming odds.

We need (must) make a concerted effort here, we need to put aside partisan finger-pointing. This isn’t about one side trying to dump the economy or dancing in the streets. Our leaders have to reach out at this time, stop calling each other names, show some respect and above all sincere compassion. There is no left or right at this point and everyone has to accept this, I think we can, I only hope Washington can. Anyone that believes this was prompted by the left to rid the president is out if their mind. This is a catastrophe, whether more or less serious compared to some prior outbreak what does it matter? This is now.  People in all reality have become frustrated and angry, feeling real fear and reacting accordingly this is normal behavior.

Perhaps people running out to stock up on toilet paper or ammo is an attempt to overcome their fear and attempt to alleviate it. Do we really think this virus will precipitate some form of take over by one faction or another? This is nuts, and yes we probably are going to see our obituaries fill the newspapers as in Italy. Bitterness, frustration, opinionated hatred has no place here it’s time to let it go  People are going to die possibly even some of us, not all of us are not in the best condition to deal with this. We have little control except to take the action our leaders are impressing on us. We do have an option, however, to turn to our faith and believe the people of all parties voted to lead us will have the conscience and clarity to do what is best. What else is there?  I hope this makes some sense.

Best regards,

Steve

Well that was a somewhat less xenophobic / paranoid post that so far i've read! Well done for speaking sense!  y1
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dick Byron on March 18, 2020, 08:50:52 AM
Toilet paper on line from a company called "MAYORWELL"  $65.98 "BEWARE" google says "BEWARE".
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Mike Griffin on March 18, 2020, 02:31:13 PM
Ok, everyone wants to talk Corona virus... let's talk about it. Let's talk about how China was fighting against the Hong Kong protesters that were waving American flags and praising Trump.... gone. Let's discuss how Trump has been tough on China and trade and theft of intellectual property. Now china threatens to withhold the ingredients for medicines. Let's talk about how the democrats and main stream media have blamed Trump for everything since he was elected and have come out and said they hoped the stock market would crash to make him look bad. Let's talk about how we had a Harvard professor of bio chem working secretly for the Chinese and getting paid really well, while lying about his connections. We all have seen what these leftist college professors have indoctrinated our young people and how nasty they've been towards anyone that supports Trump. We've all seen how far the left and dems are willing to go to regain power and how the media has been used to promote their fake stories. Now we see them blame Trump for a Chinese virus and use the dem media to scare people and destabilize our markets. Let's talk about the Chinese girl that they're looking for, that they think is now back in china , that had access to our defense department and military. How about the chinese guy they busted at the airport with vials of bio materials hidden in his sock! How about the Chinese driver that was discovered working for Fienstein? Let's talk about how there's not more talk about protests in Venezuela. How about the fact that there's a bio lab in Wuhan, near that market they blamed and the professor had ties to that lab. Now China is trying to blame the virus on our military... makes no sense...since when do we have troops in China? How about Nancy Pelosi trying to sneak in abortion funding into the funding bill for the virus. Let's talk about all the scandals that aren't being talked about now.... like Hunter and Joe Biden's corruption in Ukraine or how Nancy and Schiff abused power in congress to continue this never ending witch hunt against our President. So all you sheeple...go ahead and beat eachother over toilet paper. You're now getting a taste of socialism at it's finest. Lack of supplies, waiting in line, media scaring everyone while screwing the economy and only telling you what they think you should know. Let's look at Italy where they're not going to treat the elderly because it's too much and they want to treat the young people.. there's your socialized death squad medicine for you. Go ahead and panic like dems want. The rest of us that are still sane and are the last bastions of common sense aren't going to panic, We're not falling for the BS and yes, we will still vote Trump!
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tony Drago on March 18, 2020, 04:08:48 PM
Spot on Mike.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Larry Renger on March 18, 2020, 06:49:53 PM
Rants on both sides aside, what percent of the folks on this forum are in the age range to be seriously at risk as I am? I’ll bet it is over 50%!  >:D
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Larry Renger on March 18, 2020, 07:35:30 PM
Hey, this is just the way to solve the financial difficulties with social security and Medicare! Clear out out all all them old geezers and the system works again.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan McEntee on March 18, 2020, 08:14:48 PM
Rants on both sides aside, what percent of the folks on this forum are in the age range to be seriously at risk as I am? I’ll bet it is over 50%!  >:D

      I think I am. I'm 64, and had a bad bout with pneumonia, although it was years ago. Spent a week in the hospital with it, both lungs. Was told then to be careful, that if you had pneumonia once that it's easy to get again. And that is supposed to hold true with this. Doesn't change my views much on things.
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: pat king on March 18, 2020, 08:59:20 PM
At 75, one heart attack, 5 stents, and Diabetes I am in the high risk group. I sure as hell am not going to sit around and worry about it.

Pat
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 18, 2020, 09:20:21 PM
Ok, everyone wants to talk Corona virus... let's talk about it. Let's talk about how China was fighting against the Hong Kong protesters that were waving American flags and praising Trump.... gone. Let's discuss how Trump has been tough on China and trade and theft of intellectual property. Now china threatens to withhold the ingredients for medicines. Let's talk about how the democrats and main stream media have blamed Trump for everything since he was elected and have come out and said they hoped the stock market would crash to make him look bad. Let's talk about how we had a Harvard professor of bio chem working secretly for the Chinese and getting paid really well, while lying about his connections. We all have seen what these leftist college professors have indoctrinated our young people and how nasty they've been towards anyone that supports Trump. We've all seen how far the left and dems are willing to go to regain power and how the media has been used to promote their fake stories. Now we see them blame Trump for a Chinese virus and use the dem media to scare people and destabilize our markets. Let's talk about the Chinese girl that they're looking for, that they think is now back in china , that had access to our defense department and military. How about the chinese guy they busted at the airport with vials of bio materials hidden in his sock! How about the Chinese driver that was discovered working for Fienstein? Let's talk about how there's not more talk about protests in Venezuela. How about the fact that there's a bio lab in Wuhan, near that market they blamed and the professor had ties to that lab. Now China is trying to blame the virus on our military... makes no sense...since when do we have troops in China? How about Nancy Pelosi trying to sneak in abortion funding into the funding bill for the virus. Let's talk about all the scandals that aren't being talked about now.... like Hunter and Joe Biden's corruption in Ukraine or how Nancy and Schiff abused power in congress to continue this never ending witch hunt against our President. So all you sheeple...go ahead and beat eachother over toilet paper. You're now getting a taste of socialism at it's finest. Lack of supplies, waiting in line, media scaring everyone while screwing the economy and only telling you what they think you should know. Let's look at Italy where they're not going to treat the elderly because it's too much and they want to treat the young people.. there's your socialized death squad medicine for you. Go ahead and panic like dems want. The rest of us that are still sane and are the last bastions of common sense aren't going to panic, We're not falling for the BS and yes, we will still vote Trump!

AMEN, Mike!  And you just got started ... Our "leaders" - both parties - have failed MISERABLY at any long-range planning.  Were we to be at war tomorrow with North Korea and China, defending South Korea, we would definitely want to rely on imported steel from China to build our tanks.  NOT!

TRUMP seems to be the only "leader" who has a remote understanding.

I was talking with my son four or five months ago about the "brilliance" of some of our European Allies, who gifted the former Soviet Union with low-interest "developing countries" loans - loans which the Soviet Union defaulted on as it crumbled.  Meanwhile, those same Allies relied on us to defend them against the Soviet Union!?!

Germany recently propped up Russia substantially by agreeing to purchase gobs of natural gas.  Trump shouldn't just be demanding they fund NATO as agreed, he should be SCREAMING at them.  They can defend themselves then!

The Chinese economy is faltering ... six guesses who will pay if they default on US loans, but the first 7 guesses don't count!  And we're relying on China to provide medications we need!?!

And good old Daddy's Boy, Hunter Biden ... the Chinese gave him zillions of dollars to invest.  Those of you who rely on investments to fund your retirement - do you have ANY IDEA how much ownership in the investments you rely on is in Chinese hands!?!  In some funds its 30 to 40%!

Simple Truth: Trump's "America First" Agenda isn't just "Patriotic", it's JUST PLAIN COMMON SENSE.

Mike, let me add to your signature: It's too bad that stupid doesn't hurt - But the stupid (and dead) still vote!

Yes, our own Democrat Secretary of State has refused to obey several court orders to abide by State Law and release voter registration data - it's headed to our Minnesota Supreme Court; my bet is the Democrats will go all the way to the US Supreme Court resisting STATE LAW.  What's to hide!?!

There is so much more ... what say we gather together some folks with at least a modicum of intelligence and put together a NATIONAL STRATEGY for the future, all entrenched politicians excluded?  There is really nothing new here, nothing we just learned ... just many years of COMMON SENSE yielding to "quick and easy".

Dennis


PS: I was in a coma and on oxygen with pneumonia at 6 months, about 5 recurrences since, open heart surgery in 1966 as a pioneer - and Ill be damned if I'll crawl under a rock and quit living as I approach my 80th birthday!
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Jaco Pass on March 18, 2020, 10:11:50 PM
Brett, you have such a myopic viewpoint, I was initially surprised but no longer.




    Right. That's what happens when you put the least efficient organization in any country - the government - in charge of something. And when it proves again to not work, then, we have the same people that created the situation weeping and rending their garments over the "tragedy". *That they themselves caused*. And their solution - do it some more! 

    The American left has been doing their level best to destroy out health care system (so they can replace it with their own) for 30+ years, basically so they could make it work like the European system that just killed 2500 people over the flu.

    Well, mission nearly accomplished - that's why the left is practically dancing in the streets and pulling for more people to die, so that they can "prove" that the system needs to get blown up and replaced completely. And not take even a slight responsibility for the results.

     And, as a side effect, put the government in final and ultimate control of everyone's lives - note the many admiring nods toward's China's response, which woudl have made the Nazis blush. Every little Hitler like Newsome, London Breed, etc, will be empowered to tell you where to go, when, how, and have you asking for permission.

     An observation - in the Bay Area, it is now nominally legal to smoke dope, but illegal to go to work. That what you let a bucnh of aging hippies run the world.

    Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Jaco Pass on March 18, 2020, 10:14:36 PM
Another short sighted narrow minded viewpoint, one way and that's it for you? Wow.



Ok, everyone wants to talk Corona virus... let's talk about it. Let's talk about how China was fighting against the Hong Kong protesters that were waving American flags and praising Trump.... gone. Let's discuss how Trump has been tough on China and trade and theft of intellectual property. Now china threatens to withhold the ingredients for medicines. Let's talk about how the democrats and main stream media have blamed Trump for everything since he was elected and have come out and said they hoped the stock market would crash to make him look bad. Let's talk about how we had a Harvard professor of bio chem working secretly for the Chinese and getting paid really well, while lying about his connections. We all have seen what these leftist college professors have indoctrinated our young people and how nasty they've been towards anyone that supports Trump. We've all seen how far the left and dems are willing to go to regain power and how the media has been used to promote their fake stories. Now we see them blame Trump for a Chinese virus and use the dem media to scare people and destabilize our markets. Let's talk about the Chinese girl that they're looking for, that they think is now back in china , that had access to our defense department and military. How about the chinese guy they busted at the airport with vials of bio materials hidden in his sock! How about the Chinese driver that was discovered working for Fienstein? Let's talk about how there's not more talk about protests in Venezuela. How about the fact that there's a bio lab in Wuhan, near that market they blamed and the professor had ties to that lab. Now China is trying to blame the virus on our military... makes no sense...since when do we have troops in China? How about Nancy Pelosi trying to sneak in abortion funding into the funding bill for the virus. Let's talk about all the scandals that aren't being talked about now.... like Hunter and Joe Biden's corruption in Ukraine or how Nancy and Schiff abused power in congress to continue this never ending witch hunt against our President. So all you sheeple...go ahead and beat eachother over toilet paper. You're now getting a taste of socialism at it's finest. Lack of supplies, waiting in line, media scaring everyone while screwing the economy and only telling you what they think you should know. Let's look at Italy where they're not going to treat the elderly because it's too much and they want to treat the young people.. there's your socialized death squad medicine for you. Go ahead and panic like dems want. The rest of us that are still sane and are the last bastions of common sense aren't going to panic, We're not falling for the BS and yes, we will still vote Trump!
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 18, 2020, 10:29:35 PM
Maybe it is time to start thinking about this year's contest schedule.   Or not.

Ken
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: qaz049 on March 19, 2020, 01:45:43 AM
The other viewpoint.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/bring-back-big-government-companies-can-t-save-us-20200319-p54bly.html
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 19, 2020, 03:30:54 AM
The other viewpoint.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/bring-back-big-government-companies-can-t-save-us-20200319-p54bly.html

Obviously written by someone who would condemn Trump for even being born, and who is obviously lacking in understanding American history or what is currently happening. I will agree that our country is in a terrible "strategic" position but blame a long list of leaders - see my comments above.

Just FYI: FDR's great programs did darned little to take us out of the Depression; War in Europe (and the gathering storm clouds) did that.  I could cite statistics, but those who believe the former don't want to hear them.


Dennis

PS: Reagan understood the weakness of the Soviet Union and took financial steps to insure its demise.  I doubt this writer - or many other political commentators - have a clue.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Mike Griffin on March 19, 2020, 08:46:43 AM
Another short sighted narrow minded viewpoint, one way and that's it for you? Wow.

Mr. Pass, I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.  By the way, I know you are new around here but just FYI, you couldn't carry Brett's jockstrap.

Mike
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve Dwyer on March 19, 2020, 09:20:46 AM
Mike,

You have assembled many details developing your argument to support the Trump administration in its argument that this dilemma was caused by the Democratic party or whoever. You are angry and frustrated as many of us with the situation we now face with this pandemic along with the consequences to our economy. It wells up many long-standing partisan sore points for sure. So let’s ask is Donald Trump the leader he claims (promised) to be? Is he capable of getting us out of this mess? I’ll agree, many of your points are indisputable but let’s ask why we are really here. Donald’s popularity is dropping significantly and the general consensus is people including folks in his own administration do not think he is handling this war correctly. Many say he has not been truthful and has not grasped the challenge to lead the country in this crisis. Many say he will not accept responsibility but would take full credit if this was to all miraculously go away tomorrow as he so incorrectly predicted it would.

The fact is and you must agree in 2018, John. Bolton under the direction of Donald Trump gutted the CDC and all its departments and direction. It was part of the Trump cost-cutting plan he promised if elected. The CDC was established under Obama following the Ebola crisis and in an attempt to protect us in the event of a biological attack. It was under the CDC the testing requirements were developed to meet the nation’s demands in the event of a crisis like today but later scrapped. It was under the scrapped plan that developed the 10,000 federal ventilators now available that Trump’s administration, now prides itself on having. Also, the tariffs on China have forced them to sell the medical equipment we now need to other countries who have stockpiled leaving us with nothing.

Where does this leave us now? Should we compare the cost Donald attempted to save by eliminating the CDC to the financial burden we now are faced with? Saving perhaps a half a million dumping the CDC compared to a Trillion or more we now must absorb. A very poor decision, he had no concept of what he was doing. And now Bolton his hatchet man is out for him, unbelievable, with a book he may as a result never release. Would you, after what’s occurred if you were Bolton? Hey, people make mistakes nobody’s perfect but isn’t it now about accountability for the damage he caused?  It’s about accountability for the business that will be lost, the economy and families hurt and loss of confidence in the nation. And we mustn’t fail to mention the loss of life of good people, there’s no price tag on this. Spoils of war I guess? Just old geezers, who cares anyway about them anyway right? How about some compassion.

Now I’m going to tell you I voted for Trump as a die-hard Republican, I’m no lefty. I owned and operated my own business for almost 30 years and was caught up in Donald’s promises for change. I was tired of attempting to survive in a handout country, tired of supporting everyone else, and the struggle. I wanted a leader, who promised to turn things around. I envisioned a businessman with ethics and standards the country was built on. I feel I was let down, the country is more divided now than the ’50s with Jim Crow and the black experience of that time. There is more hatred now than we can ever recall. Wasn’t it  Donald’s responsibility to further the attempts of his predecessors of both parties to bring this nation closer together. He has accomplished nothing only worsened things. He has failed, destroyed years of good work. For a county to be successful it must be together and have good leadership. Requiring a trusted and respected president that expresses his faith in God and confidence in view of all turmoil. Someone that takes ownership, accountability and understands what it is to leave a legacy as well as warrant the respect of his neighbor nations.

So, Mike, I don’t care about China, where this virus originated or finger-pointing it doesn’t matter. I’m just plain disgusted, disappointed our leader isn’t the man I thought he was.  I’m now in my 70s and I am a high risk for the virus. I was also proud to serve this country during the 60s turmoil and I don’t care that trump dodged the draft it means nothing to me. I feel sorry for the armed forces today, how must they feel when they look back from afar at this administration, it’s failed leadership and how their commander ignores the values this nation was built upon. I cannot again vote for a person like Donald Trump, we can not afford another term of this turmoil. In truth, I think he has hurt himself badly, I think it’s caught up with him. I don’t think our country will bring him back. Understand I’m not looking for a fight, I won’t go there, it’s not my style and I respect your knowledge in CL  but please convince me why I should place stock in this man, I would appreciate that.


Disappointed and disgusted, I have to get back to building model airplanes.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: FLOYD CARTER on March 19, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
Political animosity is so thoroughly entrenched into our society, that even this common threat to our existence seems to get blamed on one side of the political aisle or the other.  Many responses right here in this thread seem to prove my argument.

The folks in Washington are now trying to convince us that "There is no Democrat or Republican, only American" during this crisis.  Well,I haven't yet seen that happening.  It still looks like a "us versus them" mentality, which isn't going to go away.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 19, 2020, 12:01:12 PM
I have to get back to building model airplanes.
Good idea.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/03/false-claim-about-cdcs-global-anti-pandemic-work/

Ken
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Mike Griffin on March 19, 2020, 02:00:15 PM
Mike,

You have assembled many details developing your argument to support the Trump administration in its argument that this dilemma was caused by the Democratic party or whoever. You are angry and frustrated as many of us with the situation we now face with this pandemic along with the consequences to our economy. It wells up many long-standing partisan sore points for sure. So let’s ask is Donald Trump the leader he claims (promised) to be? Is he capable of getting us out of this mess? I’ll agree, many of your points are indisputable but let’s ask why we are really here. Donald’s popularity is dropping significantly and the general consensus is people including folks in his own administration do not think he is handling this war correctly. Many say he has not been truthful and has not grasped the challenge to lead the country in this crisis. Many say he will not accept responsibility but would take full credit if this was to all miraculously go away tomorrow as he so incorrectly predicted it would.

The fact is and you must agree in 2018, John. Bolton under the direction of Donald Trump gutted the CDC and all its departments and direction. It was part of the Trump cost-cutting plan he promised if elected. The CDC was established under Obama following the Ebola crisis and in an attempt to protect us in the event of a biological attack. It was under the CDC the testing requirements were developed to meet the nation’s demands in the event of a crisis like today but later scrapped. It was under the scrapped plan that developed the 10,000 federal ventilators now available that Trump’s administration, now prides itself on having. Also, the tariffs on China have forced them to sell the medical equipment we now need to other countries who have stockpiled leaving us with nothing.

Where does this leave us now? Should we compare the cost Donald attempted to save by eliminating the CDC to the financial burden we now are faced with? Saving perhaps a half a million dumping the CDC compared to a Trillion or more we now must absorb. A very poor decision, he had no concept of what he was doing. And now Bolton his hatchet man is out for him, unbelievable, with a book he may as a result never release. Would you, after what’s occurred if you were Bolton? Hey, people make mistakes nobody’s perfect but isn’t it now about accountability for the damage he caused?  It’s about accountability for the business that will be lost, the economy and families hurt and loss of confidence in the nation. And we mustn’t fail to mention the loss of life of good people, there’s no price tag on this. Spoils of war I guess? Just old geezers, who cares anyway about them anyway right? How about some compassion.

Now I’m going to tell you I voted for Trump as a die-hard Republican, I’m no lefty. I owned and operated my own business for almost 30 years and was caught up in Donald’s promises for change. I was tired of attempting to survive in a handout country, tired of supporting everyone else, and the struggle. I wanted a leader, who promised to turn things around. I envisioned a businessman with ethics and standards the country was built on. I feel I was let down, the country is more divided now than the ’50s with Jim Crow and the black experience of that time. There is more hatred now than we can ever recall. Wasn’t it  Donald’s responsibility to further the attempts of his predecessors of both parties to bring this nation closer together. He has accomplished nothing only worsened things. He has failed, destroyed years of good work. For a county to be successful it must be together and have good leadership. Requiring a trusted and respected president that expresses his faith in God and confidence in view of all turmoil. Someone that takes ownership, accountability and understands what it is to leave a legacy as well as warrant the respect of his neighbor nations.

So, Mike, I don’t care about China, where this virus originated or finger-pointing it doesn’t matter. I’m just plain disgusted, disappointed our leader isn’t the man I thought he was.  I’m now in my 70s and I am a high risk for the virus. I was also proud to serve this country during the 60s turmoil and I don’t care that trump dodged the draft it means nothing to me. I feel sorry for the armed forces today, how must they feel when they look back from afar at this administration, it’s failed leadership and how their commander ignores the values this nation was built upon. I cannot again vote for a person like Donald Trump, we can not afford another term of this turmoil. In truth, I think he has hurt himself badly, I think it’s caught up with him. I don’t think our country will bring him back. Understand I’m not looking for a fight, I won’t go there, it’s not my style and I respect your knowledge in CL  but please convince me why I should place stock in this man, I would appreciate that.


Disappointed and disgusted, I have to get back to building model airplanes.

Steve, because the alternative was and remains MUCH WORSE.

Mike
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 19, 2020, 03:18:54 PM
I believe those that live in glass houses such as you Max, need to keep your comments to yourself.  Things could be said about Canada and Mexico such as Trudeau and Drug Cartels, but those normally would be the concern of Canada and Mexico, but both directly affect the USA.  And vice versa. If all of would concentrate on our own problems and attempt to fix them maybe things would improve. Think about that. I only care about the USA and its citizens. Good neighbors stay out of their neighbor's business. Where my nose ends as well as yours is where we both should stay.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 19, 2020, 03:32:26 PM
To Steve Dwyer,

I am a 31 year USAF retiree and I remember the debacles of the Carter, Clinton, and Obama administrations and how our military was hollowed out and demoralized. The Reagan, Bush 1 and 2, and Trump administrations restored the US Mililtary and its morale. I and other US Military personnel firmly and enthusiastically supported them to include President Trump. I don't know where your beliefs come from but you are incorrect.

So do not speak for me or the rest of the military unless you served.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 19, 2020, 03:40:42 PM
The folks in Washington are now trying to convince us that "There is no Democrat or Republican, only American" during this crisis.  Well,I haven't yet seen that happening.  It still looks like a "us versus them" mentality, which isn't going to go away.

  You aren't living the reincarnation of East Berlin. I am.

    Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 19, 2020, 06:59:26 PM
With a non funtioning democratic system, there is a solution;
Maybe a second civil war will sober you all up.
Should be no problem with 300+ million weapons in the hands of civilians.
The Canadians are not blessed with the usa at their border.
Nor are the mexicans.

That's pretty funny Max, or to be more direct - just stupid.  Seems the Mexicans especially want to come here by the millions, so I'm sure they appreciate the border is close.

Meanwhile, think you can straighten out your own country?


Dennis
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 19, 2020, 07:24:18 PM
Mike,

You have assembled many details developing your argument to support the Trump administration in its argument that this dilemma was caused by the Democratic party or whoever. You are angry and frustrated as many of us with the situation we now face with this pandemic along with the consequences to our economy. It wells up many long-standing partisan sore points for sure. So let’s ask is Donald Trump the leader he claims (promised) to be? Is he capable of getting us out of this mess? I’ll agree, many of your points are indisputable but let’s ask why we are really here. Donald’s popularity is dropping significantly and the general consensus is people including folks in his own administration do not think he is handling this war correctly. Many say he has not been truthful and has not grasped the challenge to lead the country in this crisis. Many say he will not accept responsibility but would take full credit if this was to all miraculously go away tomorrow as he so incorrectly predicted it would.

The fact is and you must agree in 2018, John. Bolton under the direction of Donald Trump gutted the CDC and all its departments and direction. It was part of the Trump cost-cutting plan he promised if elected. The CDC was established under Obama following the Ebola crisis and in an attempt to protect us in the event of a biological attack. It was under the CDC the testing requirements were developed to meet the nation’s demands in the event of a crisis like today but later scrapped. It was under the scrapped plan that developed the 10,000 federal ventilators now available that Trump’s administration, now prides itself on having. Also, the tariffs on China have forced them to sell the medical equipment we now need to other countries who have stockpiled leaving us with nothing.

Where does this leave us now? Should we compare the cost Donald attempted to save by eliminating the CDC to the financial burden we now are faced with? Saving perhaps a half a million dumping the CDC compared to a Trillion or more we now must absorb. A very poor decision, he had no concept of what he was doing. And now Bolton his hatchet man is out for him, unbelievable, with a book he may as a result never release. Would you, after what’s occurred if you were Bolton? Hey, people make mistakes nobody’s perfect but isn’t it now about accountability for the damage he caused?  It’s about accountability for the business that will be lost, the economy and families hurt and loss of confidence in the nation. And we mustn’t fail to mention the loss of life of good people, there’s no price tag on this. Spoils of war I guess? Just old geezers, who cares anyway about them anyway right? How about some compassion.

Now I’m going to tell you I voted for Trump as a die-hard Republican, I’m no lefty. I owned and operated my own business for almost 30 years and was caught up in Donald’s promises for change. I was tired of attempting to survive in a handout country, tired of supporting everyone else, and the struggle. I wanted a leader, who promised to turn things around. I envisioned a businessman with ethics and standards the country was built on. I feel I was let down, the country is more divided now than the ’50s with Jim Crow and the black experience of that time. There is more hatred now than we can ever recall. Wasn’t it  Donald’s responsibility to further the attempts of his predecessors of both parties to bring this nation closer together. He has accomplished nothing only worsened things. He has failed, destroyed years of good work. For a county to be successful it must be together and have good leadership. Requiring a trusted and respected president that expresses his faith in God and confidence in view of all turmoil. Someone that takes ownership, accountability and understands what it is to leave a legacy as well as warrant the respect of his neighbor nations.

So, Mike, I don’t care about China, where this virus originated or finger-pointing it doesn’t matter. I’m just plain disgusted, disappointed our leader isn’t the man I thought he was.  I’m now in my 70s and I am a high risk for the virus. I was also proud to serve this country during the 60s turmoil and I don’t care that trump dodged the draft it means nothing to me. I feel sorry for the armed forces today, how must they feel when they look back from afar at this administration, it’s failed leadership and how their commander ignores the values this nation was built upon. I cannot again vote for a person like Donald Trump, we can not afford another term of this turmoil. In truth, I think he has hurt himself badly, I think it’s caught up with him. I don’t think our country will bring him back. Understand I’m not looking for a fight, I won’t go there, it’s not my style and I respect your knowledge in CL  but please convince me why I should place stock in this man, I would appreciate that.

Disappointed and disgusted, I have to get back to building model airplanes.


Steve, I appreciate much of what you've written here - seriously - but you're way off base in the accuracy or logic of several statements you make.

You write: "The CDC was established under Obama following the Ebola crisis and in an attempt to protect us in the event of a biological attack." The CDC was established in 1946 and functioned quite well while the Racist drug dealer was enjoying his youth.  FACT.

You accuse Trump of gutting the CDC; hopefully you'll realize you've become victim to talking points that simply aren't true.

No nation on earth would be fiscally responsible in trying to prepare for a pandemic of this nature.  Think about it.  Consider the technology we play with every day.  Medical equipment purchased today would probably - with reasonable limits on liability - sell for half as much in two years.  Can you imagine the cost of building and maintaining a hospital system, complete with staff, that would be large enough to be prepared?

It would simply be insanity.

Please read my comments regarding China.  Trump seems to be the ONLY US leader with the guts to change an untenable state of affairs.

Speaking for myself, I DON'T blame only Democrats for where we are - there's plenty of blame to go around.  I DO blame Democrats and the media in general for making RESIST! their mission in life.


Dennis









Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve Scott on March 19, 2020, 07:53:15 PM
Ready for the next debacle?

As we all know use of wipes has been a sticking point with many wastewater treatment facilities for some time. The nondegradable wipes do not breakdown as does toilet paper and many facilities have posted shots of what they call monster clogs. The wipes become cemented together with oils and fats that were washed down drains.  They are being called “fatbergs”, and costly to remove. Some have been found as large as a bus. Some municipalities have even filed lawsuits with the companies manufacturing the wipes.

So what's to come?  We all know many will be resorting to paper towels and rags in addition to wipes as they remain available for the cleanup task in the absence of TP. The next alternative paper towels are close to wipes, they don't break down quickly and certainly will cause havoc.

Considering how it's only been a little over a week since the TP scarcity surfaced how long will it take before street sewer lines will become restricted with masses of paper towels? Most insurance companies will cover the consequential clean up resulting from the backup but cost to excavate and repair the line out is generally not a covered peril. Will Washington bail us out? I'm gonna chuckle the day a reporter asks Mike and Donald for a Sewer Line Stimulus" in view of the COVID-19 catastrophe.

Gotta have fun somehow!!

Steve

Don't want to get into the political argument here (I'm an elected non-partisan local official) who has been working with federal, state and local organizations to coordinate  our resources before our healthcare system gets totally overwhelmed by the unchecked exponential spread of this novel coronavirus such as Italy has experienced.   Our state (Minnesota) is one of the milder outbreaks but our governor has taken strong initiative to try to stay ahead of the curve.

In the meantime, my public works folks have had to go to split work shifts, wrecking their family routines to repair our sewers when folks use those 'flushable' wipes and for isolation precautions in case one shift has a member who contracts the virus.

We're still learning about the characteristics of COVID-19 virus.  It does little good to find someone else to blame.  It's here and it's deadly.  Not as deadly as Ebola but far more deadly than our seasonal influenza.   Yes, I've seen comparisons saying we kill 40,000 Americans a year in automobile accidents but this virus can kill that same number in a matter of a few weeks.   Most of us are in the age group who is most at risk.

As much as I abhor the political bantering, I'm more in disgust with the revelers on the Florida beaches who feel invincible or don't care if they contract the virus because nothing should interfere with their right to party.  I had hoped our Typhoid Mary's were a thing of the past.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 19, 2020, 11:40:21 PM
I had hoped our Typhoid Mary's were a thing of the past.
y1 y1
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Gary Dowler on March 20, 2020, 12:37:26 AM
  You aren't living the reincarnation of East Berlin. I am.

    Brett
Yes, if I understand correctly, you are on mandatory lockdown there in the people's republic of commifornia, especially in the Bay Area.
I don't envy your location.

Gary
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 20, 2020, 12:38:06 AM
Don't want to get into the political argument here (I'm an elected non-partisan local official) who has been working with federal, state and local organizations to coordinate  our resources before our healthcare system gets totally overwhelmed by the unchecked exponential spread of this novel coronavirus such as Italy has experienced.   Our state (Minnesota) is one of the milder outbreaks but our governor has taken strong initiative to try to stay ahead of the curve.

In the meantime, my public works folks have had to go to split work shifts, wrecking their family routines to repair our sewers when folks use those 'flushable' wipes and for isolation precautions in case one shift has a member who contracts the virus.

We're still learning about the characteristics of COVID-19 virus.  It does little good to find someone else to blame.  It's here and it's deadly.  Not as deadly as Ebola but far more deadly than our seasonal influenza.   Yes, I've seen comparisons saying we kill 40,000 Americans a year in automobile accidents but this virus can kill that same number in a matter of a few weeks.   Most of us are in the age group who is most at risk.

As much as I abhor the political bantering, I'm more in disgust with the revelers on the Florida beaches who feel invincible or don't care if they contract the virus because nothing should interfere with their right to party.  I had hoped our Typhoid Mary's were a thing of the past.

Well said, Steve.  One byproduct of the crisis I'm hoping for is Americans realizing how ridiculous it is strategically for us to depend on the Chinese for anything.  That flaw has no party allegiance.

And, as I approach my 80th birthday, the folks I really feel sorry for are the responsible young people and those whose income is determined on an hourly basis.

A good example: I watched the semi-finals of our Girls High School Basketball State Tournament.  Having been involved in competitive sports for many years, I can't begin to imagine the heartbreak they felt when the finals were cancelled.  After hours and hours, days, weeks, months, years of preparation.

How about the folks who supplement retirement income - or even earn their primary income - taking tickets, selling concessions, cleaning up.  Probably like many here, my Social Security and pension income is secure.  My wife began working from home yesterday, she has a good job that's especially secure now.  So many are not so fortunate, and I feel their pain.

Speaking only for myself, I've had a lot of good fortune in life - I'm personally glad the virus is more likely to take me than it is to take my son, or your son, or a neighbor's son if it has to take anyone.  (That said, I'll only go kicking and screaming ...)


Dennis
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 20, 2020, 09:57:45 AM
Yes, if I understand correctly, you are on mandatory lockdown there in the people's republic of commifornia, especially in the Bay Area.
I don't envy your location.

    I am "exempt" and we are still supposed to do a launch next Thursday, which involves large groups of people in an enclosed area for months.

   But, it is ironic to think that I have worked for this and the other 37 years to defend the American way of life and principles, and the first time we hit a snag, we immediately toss those right out the window, with admiring nods to the Communist Chinese government.

    Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Fredvon4 on March 20, 2020, 10:11:38 AM
Hey Brett tis a pity your ironic or sarcastic remark went over even some conservative heads....if n all ya all think this virus has us spun up, just wait for Nov 3~4.....yer heads are going to absolutely explode no matter what Party is to be inaugurated in Jan 2021
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: eric david conley on March 20, 2020, 10:12:20 AM
     Hey Max, I hope you know you are posting on one if not the most US conservative forms there is. The US modelers for the most part are of the elderly part of our citizens and grew up with good jobs and benefits in the years after WW-2. Most of them think they have enough resources to see themselves get through this terrible time without help and seem to think everyone else should be able to do it or shame on them. They tend to blame everything on the democrats and can only praise the Trump party for where we are at. It will be a rough ride for quite a while but we (US) will come out of this in time, all together in spite of ourselves.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 20, 2020, 11:33:20 AM
Businesses and companies are compensated, so that after this disaster everyone can proceed as quickly as possible.
Everyone here has affordable health insurance $150 a month, USA $ 2000 month)
In the USA 90,000,000 people not insured or under insured.

    You have no concept of what you are talking about. Not one single person in the USA is without health care. If the lowliest bum comes into an ER, they are treated, regardless. What is lacking is someone else to pay for it. An individual pays, or the hospitals just eat the costs. No one goes without urgent care. That was the principle selling point of "Obamacare" - get rid of what the always erudite great thinker Nancy Pelosi continually referred to as "free riders", since everyone always got the necessary care, but bums were not paying for it.

   If you just cover (pay the bills for) everyone with anything (which include elective surgery for things like "gender reassignment" - an outrageously expensive mutilation due to a psychological disorder), it is no longer "insurance", it is shared payement/socialized medicine. So, I no longer get to decide how much risk VS how much coverage for myself, people just *take money from me and give it to perverts and imbeciles for anything they want on a whim*. My total medical costs for the past 58 years is on the order of $3000 (most of which came when I had to go to the ER for a kidney stone). Now, lucky for me, I am covered, and paying for prenatal care, for example. I might not have been willing to pay for that myself, I mean, just because I am a man and almost 60, I think my chances of becoming pregnant is something I am willing to risk paying for myself.


Quote
With the current measures en the EU, there is enough room in the ICs for everyone, if necessary.

   Well,  we know that is not true, Italy's health care system has been overwhelmed, and they are employing exactly the sort of "Death Panels" that Sarah Palin was mercilessly mocked for.  This is the primary example used, by the left, to justify draconian "shelter in place orders". That's the principle behind "flattening the curve" - not to reduce the total number of cases, but to slow the rate of new infection to something the system can handle.


Quote
Measures are communicated between the states across the EU, but customization is possible in each state. ( In the USA on federal level there is not much activity, states care for their self)
Everything is being done to protect vulnerable groups, such as the elderly, or people of frail health, from the virus.
Many retired doctors and nurses have resumed their work without any burocracy.
I my self did the shopping for an older neighbor.
All things considered,the people appreciate the government and our Congress for  the way things are handled, but also the politicians who have put aside their party positions, except for some of the populist far right.
The general feeling is; we are all in the same boat.
But maybe we can also use American solutions;
For example, I read in the newspaper that in a number of places in the USA the stocks of ammo in shops are exhausted, and that people are now buying an assault rifle for the first time in their lives.
That will improve the situation a lot.

  No one is all that worried about maurading bands looking for food. They *are* worried about the casual elimination of their personal liberty - a concept I don't expect you to be capable of understanding.

   We are supposed to be, and are very happy to be, different from the decaying world of Europe. If you want to learn more, you should probably start here:

https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript

  Which describes what we are doing, and what sort of old world ideas we are quite intentionally discarding. You might note the 1st amendment discussion of "free assembly", "practice of religion" (both of which are nominally suspended in California right now - but would not withstand a legal challenge) and the 2nd amendment discussion of gun rights. This is not just something some old farts a long time ago came up with off the tops of their heads, it is the highest law of the land. It's also why "shelter in place" is unenforcable governmental overstep.

   I understand that you are in the EU, and have no notion of any of these concepts. Either you can learn them, or not, makes no difference to me. I would suggest that you kindly refrain from judging us, and offering any "helpful opinions" about how stupid we are. We aren't the ones who don't get it - you might want to look up what the "Dunning-Kruger effect" is, and then see if it sounds familiar.

    Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Pepe Llopis on March 20, 2020, 02:01:03 PM
Things are going very badly in Spain


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-idUSKBN2172KO (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-idUSKBN2172KO)
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 20, 2020, 02:04:13 PM
Brett;

Dunning-Kruger effect; look at your self and think! Try it!
In two months you will spent more than $ 3000.
Keep the blood pressure down.
Keep living as happy as you are now.
Remember you are normal, only different.

Kind regards;

Max




Max, you're right - you're so full of crap it's not funny, it's simply pathetic.

Exactly who are your borders open to now?  Have the EU authorities told you what hours you must keep yet?


Dennis

Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 20, 2020, 02:07:06 PM
Brett;

Dunning-Kruger effect; look at your self and think! Try it!
In two months you will spent more than $ 3000.
Keep the blood pressure down.
Keep living as happy as you are now.
Remember you are normal, only different.

The last thing anyone here needs is a lecture on liberty from a European.

     Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 20, 2020, 02:10:21 PM
Things are going very badly in Spain

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-idUSKBN2172KO (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-spain-idUSKBN2172KO)

No, no, that can't be right!  Max just stated "With the current measures en the EU, there is enough room in the ICs for everyone, if necessary."

Are you living in a fantasy world, Max?


Dennis
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Andre Ming on March 20, 2020, 02:42:43 PM
Spain and Italy reacted to late, just as you all do.
Face the consequences.

Almost reads as if you're looking forward to any woes we as a Nation will face.


Andre



Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Pepe Llopis on March 20, 2020, 03:16:28 PM
Spain and Italy reacted to late, just as you all do.
Face the consequences.

It is true, the current government (socialists + communists ...)  want to pretend it's not happening.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 20, 2020, 04:00:39 PM
Brett;

Dunning-Kruger effect; look at your self and think! Try it!
In two months you will spent more than $ 3000.
Keep the blood pressure down.
Keep living as happy as you are now.
Remember you are normal, only different.

Kind regards;
Max

Max,

As a great American once said, "You can't handle the Truth!"  Your nonsensical responses to all of us make it clear that discussing anything with you is like attempting to teach a pig to sing.  All you do is waste your time and annoy the pig.

So, Max be happy with the mess that the EU and its borderless globalism have created except for Hungary and Poland and now the UK who have locked down their borders from the first.  We in American will conquer this latest unseen enemy and then help the rest of the world after we take care of Americans first as we should.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Mike Griffin on March 20, 2020, 04:03:13 PM
Here is message for Max and every other non citizen of this country.  We don't give a damn how you do it in Europe.  Period.  DO NOT come on this forum and try to lecture us about anything.  Your ignorance is only surpassed by your gross stupidity.   We saved your asses during WW2 and have bailed you out on numerous occasions.  You want to talk about model planes, fine but don't come on here and be arrogant pricks.  I am so tired of this crap. 

Mike
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan Berry on March 20, 2020, 04:43:20 PM
Spain and Italy reacted to late, just as you all do.
Face the consequences.

You sleep tight.
We'll protect you.
Again.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan Berry on March 20, 2020, 04:44:12 PM
The last thing anyone here needs is a lecture on liberty from a European.

     Brett

Well stated.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 20, 2020, 04:52:32 PM
We saved your asses during WW2 and have bailed you out on numerous occasions. 


   Forget about WW2, everything since is enough. The existence of the EU would not be possible without financing and defense from Uncle Sugar. They create "international" organizations like the IMF and NATO to cover the fact that they are backing their dump trucks up to the US Treasury. "Just shut up and give us the money!"

  On the other hand, their superior experience with the formation of socialist police states cannot be denied, particularly the Germans. They turned the Gestapo into the Stasi and didn't miss a beat. Angela Merkel even worked for the Stasi in a minor position.

     Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ted Fancher on March 20, 2020, 05:58:30 PM
As a relief from the political give and take I'd like to share a url from the John Hopkins University Center for Systems Science and Engineering that I've been monitoring since I discovered it a week ago.

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

This site provides world wide data as to the spread and density of reported infections, recovered and death numbers across the globe.  It is updated several times a day and is comprehensive in its coverage.  The one thing I'd like to suggest that isn't addressed in the site (that I've found) is that the numbers are "as reported" and in many(most?) cases at this point probably reflect other than "new" cases--i.e. existing cases that have come to be known...the USA as a case in point.  I encourage those interested in following the development of caronavirus infections to give it a looksee.  Play with clicking on the various elements to get an idea of the variety of data which can be illustrated.

My only comment pertinent to the "dialogues" in this thread is that a glance at the European countries from which President Trump acted to restrict travel early on have levels of infection that make his decision sound quite appropriate. 

Also of interest is the current state of China vis a vis total infections, deaths and recovery.  As of the time I type this China has a total of 81,250 confirmed cases; 3,253 deaths; and 71,266 recovered.  (The death total is a small fraction of the 1.4 billion Chinese in the country, by the way).  The combined deaths + recoveries equals only 10,000 fewer lives than the total number of confirmed cases...which implies that the country is well on its way to recovery...assuming the reports from there are accurate.

At any rate, give it a glance and see what you think.  Food for discussion, for sure.

Ted Fancher
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve_Pollock on March 20, 2020, 06:44:53 PM
Reference material attached ...
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 20, 2020, 08:01:11 PM
Reference material attached ...

Never let the truth or facts get in the way of a good lie. The hatred of the USA and the President are pathological.  I refuse to sit back and let the media, Democrats, and George Soros and the Chinese Communist Party drive the narrative.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tony Drago on March 20, 2020, 08:21:01 PM
This is close to 12 min. Try to watch till the end.
   
https://www.facebook.com/mahmoud.elawadi.9/videos/10163288717110720/
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: qaz049 on March 20, 2020, 08:41:01 PM
Here is message for Max and every other non citizen of this country.  We don't give a damn how you do it in Europe.  Period.  DO NOT come on this forum and try to lecture us about anything.  Your ignorance is only surpassed by your gross stupidity.   We saved your asses during WW2 and have bailed you out on numerous occasions.  You want to talk about model planes, fine but don't come on here and be arrogant pricks.  I am so tired of this crap. 

Mike

Mike I think if you look at real history books (the ones without all the pictures) you'll find that the French financed and won the Revolutionary War on behalf of the rather disorganized continental states.  Perhaps you're not aware of the enormous contribution that the European's in general made to the foundation of the USA? Also I think that you'll find that most scholars agree that the Soviets made the biggest contribution to victory in WW2 of all the Allies. You're sounding very much like a Monty Python skit, "what have the Europeans ever done for us?" I see that someone has already mentioned the Dunning Kruger effect, Paranoia and Xenophobia.

In view of the recent leadership shenanigans in your country, it may be better if your Government detains the Clown in Chief, and humbly apologize to Her Majesty for the past insult to good King George the 3rd.  She make take you up again as a colony if you're lucky.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 20, 2020, 10:00:30 PM
Mike I think if you look at real history books (the ones without all the pictures) you'll find that the French financed and won the Revolutionary War on behalf of the rather disorganized continental states.  Perhaps you're not aware of the enormous contribution that the European's in general made to the foundation of the USA? Also I think that you'll find that most scholars agree that the Soviets made the biggest contribution to victory in WW2 of all the Allies. You're sounding very much like a Monty Python skit, "what have the Europeans ever done for us?" I see that someone has already mentioned the Dunning Kruger effect, Paranoia and Xenophobia.

In view of the recent leadership shenanigans in your country, it may be better if your Government detains the Clown in Chief, and humbly apologize to Her Majesty for the past insult to good King George the 3rd.  She make take you up again as a colony if you're lucky.

As I said before, never let the truth or facts get in the way of a good lie!  Straight out of Marx! Lenin, Alinsky,and Soros handbooks of disinformation. 

We the USA provided most of the war materials and weapons for Stalin through the Atlantic covoys and Murmansk.  Sherman tanks, P-39s, P-40s, P-63s, B-25s, Dodge trucks, and the list goes on.

The French only came in later when Washington began beating the Redcoats. Their best contribution was the Marquis De Lafayette, one of Washington's best Generals.

And as far as the U.K. goes, Churchill and King George V enthusiastically welcomed the USA fighting the Nazis and the Japanese Empire in Ww II and freeing Europe from Tyranny.

So, get your history right or quit acting like an expert.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan McEntee on March 20, 2020, 10:35:16 PM
Mike I think if you look at real history books (the ones without all the pictures) you'll find that the French financed and won the Revolutionary War on behalf of the rather disorganized continental states.  Perhaps you're not aware of the enormous contribution that the European's in general made to the foundation of the USA? Also I think that you'll find that most scholars agree that the Soviets made the biggest contribution to victory in WW2 of all the Allies. You're sounding very much like a Monty Python skit, "what have the Europeans ever done for us?" I see that someone has already mentioned the Dunning Kruger effect, Paranoia and Xenophobia.

In view of the recent leadership shenanigans in your country, it may be better if your Government detains the Clown in Chief, and humbly apologize to Her Majesty for the past insult to good King George the 3rd.  She make take you up again as a colony if you're lucky.

    I have read the history books. As I recall, we were so appreciative of Lafayette's help during the American Revolution, that Co. Charles Stanton declared in a speech on July 4th, 1917,  " Lafayette, we are here!" we helped drive out the Germans from France during WW-1. Then, when the French couldn't put up a fight again in '38 and '39, we went in and drove the Germans back out again at great cost . You can see part of the price we paid at the cemeteries above the Normandy beaches. And as far as contributions to the WW-2 war effort, I have only two words for you, Lend-Lease. Russia paid a higher price in loss of life during the war, and you have to admire them for the stand that they took to to repel the German advance and managing to keep their own industrial war efforts alive during the same time. Far, far, far more effort than the French ever gave. But they did it with more or less substandard technology compared to what was being produced in the US in addition to what they were given by the US in Lend-Lease. Then after the war, in an attempt to try an catch up, they more or less copied US advances. They had some stuff on the ball of their own, no doubt about it, though, and again, you have to admire and respect their willingness to fight to the last man, woman and child. And along the way, in both world wars, we kind of helped  Great Britain out also. So, in short, I think old Uncle Sam has paid back Lafayette in spades, and the contributions from Europe in the early days of this country were in their populations heading to the New World in droves to escape taxes, tyranny, oppression and famine. People are still flocking to this country even today and that may be part of the problem, we are letting too many of them in. Perhaps they should show the same courage and fortitude our fore fathers showed and right the wrongs in their own country, instead of gracing our shores with their hands out when the arrive. I don't mean  to paint all immigrants with a broad brush. I have worked with many hard working and grateful immigrants in my working career, but I have also had to deal with the exact opposite also from them.
  A look at the map that Ted posted and a watch of the video that Tony posted are also very insightful.
   Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tony Drago on March 20, 2020, 10:53:02 PM
Would you trust the media.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 20, 2020, 10:54:19 PM
Mike I think if you look at real history books (the ones without all the pictures) you'll find that the French financed and won the Revolutionary War on behalf of the rather disorganized continental states.  Perhaps you're not aware of the enormous contribution that the European's in general made to the foundation of the USA? Also I think that you'll find that most scholars agree that the Soviets made the biggest contribution to victory in WW2 of all the Allies. You're sounding very much like a Monty Python skit, "what have the Europeans ever done for us?" I see that someone has already mentioned the Dunning Kruger effect, Paranoia and Xenophobia.

In view of the recent leadership shenanigans in your country, it may be better if your Government detains the Clown in Chief, and humbly apologize to Her Majesty for the past insult to good King George the 3rd.  She make take you up again as a colony if you're lucky.
It is rare that I let a post get to me but yours did.  I have no clue how old you are and you obviously have not read the part about using your name.  I learned the history of WWII from my father and his two brothers who were there.  In summary, you are full of crap. This site is for the promotion of Stunt and it is rare that we get into politics.  Nothing will kill a thread quicker than posts like yours.  I would never consider insulting a culture that you obviously do not understand.

Ken
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan McEntee on March 20, 2020, 11:04:39 PM
   Well, there is one way that you can tell how sweeping an issue is, and that is by knowing some one that is affected by it personally, or being affected by it yourself. I don't think I have read on here of anyone having the virus, or knowing some one who does. I don't think I had the virus, but I was pretty much sick as a dog from the middle of January until this past week. I missed two days of work along the way. And today, I got laid off from my job for three weeks due to slow business, and the company owner wanting to give us the opportunity to stay at home and avoid contracting the virus. I had all the symptoms of the virus, but when I was at my sickest, they weren't even talking about this yet. There was the usual flu bug going around, and my older brother ( in his 70's) spent a night and a day in the hospital with a "lung infection." I have had pneumonia before and I'm sure I had a touch of it again. Makes me wonder if I picked up something from him?  Could a whole lot f people had this and never got diagnosed? If you contract the virus and you are of normally good health, you just get a real bad cold like symptoms. If they weren't looking for Covid19, they never would have diagnosed it. Possibly what is going on in the higher concentration of cases areas?? I have said it before, I don't necessarily think this thing has spread, it was already here in some form. Lots of cases out there that the patient didn't travel, come in contact with anyone who did. I don't socialize outside of the hobby much, no bar scene nor do I eat out a lot. There has been no one at work sick like I was either for the last two months. Makes me wonder.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 21, 2020, 03:58:17 AM
Tony Drago - the video you linked highlights Chinese ownership in American business - a very real danger I referred to earlier.  We need legislation NOW.

American Revolutionary War: I’m very grateful for France’s assistance, and think of Lafayette as a real hero.  Not to diminish that appreciation, it must be acknowledged by any intelligent observer that France entered the conflict to pursue its own goals while assisting us.  It would seem some who comment here are history-challenged ...

WWII: The punitive damages inflicted on the Axis Powers in the Treaty of Versailles provided all the incentive needed to insure WWII. France, having been invaded by Germany twice in the span of about 40 years, literally wanted Germany crushed.  America never ratified that treaty - in fact American President Woodrow Wilson pushed to make rebuilding the European economy one of the goals.

Many experts in such matters - and that clearly doesn’t include me - argue the French had perhaps the best tanks in the world when WWII began; their weakness was the inability to communicate by radio in the field.  And their Air Force was regarded as superior to Germany’s.

But their political and military leadership was simply inept and disorganized, and the Air Force went AWOL.  French leaders seemed more inclined to fight each other than to fight the Germans.  And then the British abandoned them at Dunkirk.

So, let’s be honest - without the weapons and fighting men America provided, France likely would never have recovered as it existed.

Weapons Production: ALL Allied nations produced about 640,000 aircraft between 1939 and 1945; America alone produced more than 300,000 of those.  Russia produced about 158,000.  The disparity is much greater in other weapons (systems); who became the great ship builders?

So, let’s be honest again - it’s pretty accurate to say America became the Arsenal for the Allies during WWII.

WWII Ends: America implemented the Marshall Plan (European Recovery Program) by transferring 12+ billion dollars (128+ billion in today’s dollars) to Western European Nations to assist in economic recovery.  The United Kingdom, France and West Germany were major recipients; I’ve read German entities could obtain loans at interest rates lower than Americans were paying here at home.

I spent a couple of years working for a CPA (Certified Public Accountant) who was stationed in Japan for some time at the end of WWII, setting up accounting systems for farming co-ops.

Perhaps - possibly, maybe - if our European Allies had put just a bit more effort into making lasting peace, rather than punishing ... who knows?

While I’m writing, let me thank European Allies for something that troubles me much more: the jillion nations/territories they colonized.  I worked with Somali immigrants here, consider their war-torn homeland - Somalia didn’t become self-governing until 1960, after being held by Germany, Britain and Italy.

The list goes on and on.  Perhaps - possibly, maybe - if our European Allies had been just a bit less inclined to acquire power over (and resources from) others ... then again, who knows?

The current Mideast picture is very much a result of that practice as well as other issues.  And these Europeans come here to criticize our society and our leaders?

I really enjoy discussion/debate on current events but think it’s pretty meaningless without some FACTS and LOGIC.  What we see here often is the equivalent of a drive-by shooting; name-calling and 4-word sound bites with no basis, and often rather incoherent at best.

Which reminds me of a time many years ago -

German Arrogance: Way back in the ‘60s I worked with a German immigrant.  His father had served in the German Artillery Forces in WWII, and Wolfgang came to America when he was 8.  When an emergency vehicle drove by with a siren on, you could see the hair on the back of his neck stand up; memories of bomb shelters were still vivid for him.

He wasn’t the most popular guy in the building, but he was very intelligent, open-minded, and told you exactly what he thought.  I really enjoyed those qualities; we became very good friends, spent a lot of time together, and soon our families were getting together often.

At times he would laugh at himself and joke about his “German arrogance”.

As a Presidential election approached, it became very clear he was a die-hard Democrat.  As it turned out, our supervisor was what might be called a “Suburban Democrat” with rather liberal values.  But the three of us enjoyed openly discussing issues, and the change was remarkable.

Our supervisor in time began walking into other offices with a copy of a book by the Republican candidate, literally campaigning for him.  Wolfgang and his wife became Chairman and Chairwoman of the Young Republicans group in their precinct.

FACTS and LOGIC ...

qaz049 - I’m not sure why you feel a need to come here and insult America and Americans, but I DO suggest you brush up on history before making statements like you’ve made.  Please, provide a list of the scholars who feel the Soviets made the biggest contribution to victory in WWII.

OH, wait!  Perhaps you should first use your deep understanding and knowledge to help your own nation prevent and/or fight fires ...  Great to see American firefighters and equipment help there, just as Aussies have helped here!


Dennis
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: katana on March 21, 2020, 06:09:43 AM
Quote
Weapons Production: ALL Allied nations produced about 640,000 aircraft between 1939 and 1945; America alone produced more than 300,000 of those.  Russia produced about 158,000.  The disparity is much greater in other weapons (systems); who became the great ship builders?

So easy when you aren't getting bombed morning, noon and night! Remind me how many actual bombs / munitions have actually fallen on the continental USA in the last 100 years?
Why does the USA insist on being the world's policeman if you don't like the rest of the world so much? Why choose the pre-emptive invasion option when not ever having to fend off that option yourselves - how would you feel if it was tried - pretty pissed I guess? Maybe if YOU stopped meddling in the affairs of others, they wouldn't be so hostile against you - Iran or Afghanistan are hardly liable to try invading the USA?
No one has any right to degrade the memory of ANYONE (friend or foe) who served their country during wartime as wars are fought by ordinary people under the direction of politicians for reasons most don't understand or necessarily agree with but generally behind the scenes someone profits from wars - generally people that are supplying the materials, raw or unfinished.
Pull out of NATO, the majority of europeans wouldn't even notice / care - don't threaten to do it - just do it. The era of 'Sabre rattling' diplomacy is over, lets everyone stop trying to convert the 'other side' to christianity / islam, communist / capitalist, socialist / liberalist / conservative, expansionist / isolationist etc. etc. etc. and we may get on a whole lot better?
This virus doesn't care where you are, how wealthy or poor you are or what your politics are - just how sick it can make you ! ! ! One would hope that every country possessing a pharma industry is striving to produce a vaccine and when it becomes available, the recipe is shared around freely - but I doubt that will happen . . . . . . . . as said, there are always profiteers in war time!
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 21, 2020, 06:37:37 AM
So easy when you aren't getting bombed morning, noon and night! Remind me how many actual bombs / munitions have actually fallen on the continental USA in the last 100 years?
Why does the USA insist on being the world's policeman if you don't like the rest of the world so much? Why choose the pre-emptive invasion option when not ever having to fend off that option yourselves - how would you feel if it was tried - pretty pissed I guess? Maybe if YOU stopped meddling in the affairs of others, they wouldn't be so hostile against you - Iran or Afghanistan are hardly liable to try invading the USA?
No one has any right to degrade the memory of ANYONE (friend or foe) who served their country during wartime as wars are fought by ordinary people under the direction of politicians for reasons most don't understand or necessarily agree with but generally behind the scenes someone profits from wars - generally people that are supplying the materials, raw or unfinished.
Pull out of NATO, the majority of europeans wouldn't even notice / care - don't threaten to do it - just do it. The era of 'Sabre rattling' diplomacy is over, lets everyone stop trying to convert the 'other side' to christianity / islam, communist / capitalist, socialist / liberalist / conservative, expansionist / isolationist etc. etc. etc. and we may get on a whole lot better?
This virus doesn't care where you are, how wealthy or poor you are or what your politics are - just how sick it can make you ! ! ! One would hope that every country possessing a pharma industry is striving to produce a vaccine and when it becomes available, the recipe is shared around freely - but I doubt that will happen . . . . . . . . as said, there are always profiteers in war time!

This one is so easy that I almost resisted spending time to teach a pig to sing, but here goes:

1. Why is NATO ponying up the Billions of Euros that they have been arrears in after Trump demanded they do so if they want America to leave.  Trump would like to leave, but he recognizes NATO's value, little that it be.  Or should Europe pay with the millions of young men you willingly gave up in the trenches of WWI and the death camps of WWII?  American gave willingly 176,000 doughboys and devil dogs for WWI to supposedly end war for all time.  And America gave another 440,000 to end WWII and the NAZI Socialism and  Japanese Empire Facism and free the world.

2. I seem to remember Pearl Harbor and 911 and the death of almost 6000 Americans.  Note the count of the thousands killed by the Japanese Empire on December 7, 1941 in the Phillipines, Wake Island, Midway, Guam, Marshall Islands, and more.  One other battle of WWII I need to mention:  The Battle of the Atlantic or what the German U-Boat Captains (Aces) called the Happy Time; 
 

Year   Ships lost by U-boat    Ships lost all enemy causes    No. of Crew* Lost by u-boat     No. of Crew* Lost all causes
 1939   50    95   260    495
 1940   225   511   3,375   5,622
 1941   288   568   5,632   7,838
 1942   452   590   8,413   9,736
 1943   203   266   3,826   4,606
 1944   67   102   1,163   1,512
 1945   30   45   229   323
 Total   1,315    2,177   22,898   30,132 

Many of these losses were in sight of the US Eastern Seaboard and their wrecks remain there on the sea floor to this day.

3. We do not want to the World's Policeman, but do it because we do not want the terrorists and expansionists at our front door as before:  Pearl Harbor and 911 and the death of almost 6000 Americans.  Not to mention the thousands of Americans killed by the Japanese Empire on December 7, 1941 in the Phillipines, Wake Island, Midway, Guam, Marshall Islands, and more. Yes, Phillipinos were American Citizens during WWII.

4. We in America with the best ever if it is not perfect Medical System will conquer the Chinese Wuhan Virus and than offer it nearly free to the rest of the world.  And how will we be thanked for it, same as we were for WWI, WWII, Korea, the rebuilding of Japan and Europe after WWII, etc..
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan McEntee on March 21, 2020, 09:04:08 AM
So easy when you aren't getting bombed morning, noon and night! Remind me how many actual bombs / munitions have actually fallen on the continental USA in the last 100 years?



    Yeah, that is exactly correct. And don't ever forget it. There were very minor efforts to assault the US mainland during WW-2 but no serious efforts because they knew it would be futile. It would have been real easy to sit on our hands as isolationists like so many wanted to at those times. And if we had, would you be here today and speaking the language that you do? Something to ponder.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Bob Heywood on March 21, 2020, 09:18:12 AM
Boycott China!
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: John Park on March 21, 2020, 09:24:16 AM
Many experts in such matters - and that clearly doesn’t include me - argue the French had perhaps the best tanks in the world when WWII began; their weakness was the inability to communicate by radio in the field.  And their Air Force was regarded as superior to Germany’s.

I strongly recommend that anyone who wishes to know the truth of France's collapse in 1940 should read Assignment to Catastrophe by E L Spears, who was possibly the most Francophile Englishman of the twentieth century.  The French Army's lack of communications was only one of a long list of failures, yet its commanders - Petain, Weygand etc. - seemed honestly to believe that it was the 'best army in the world'.  Many of those failures, incidentally, were administrative rather than equipment-related.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Jim Svitko on March 21, 2020, 09:50:58 AM
    Yeah, that is exactly correct. And don't ever forget it. There were very minor efforts to assault the US mainland during WW-2 but no serious efforts because they knew it would be futile. It would have been real easy to sit on our hands as isolationists like so many wanted to at those times. And if we had, would you be here today and speaking the language that you do? Something to ponder.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

Very true, Dan.  If not for the geography which allowed North America to be out of reach of any serious offensive campaign the Japanese and Germans might have attempted, our industrial capability could have been crippled and the world might be quite different now.

And, although the Atlantic Ocean shielded us to some extent, remember how serious the situation was in England due to the U-boats.  At one time, England was down to about one month supply of food, ammo, gasoline, etc.  If not for the massive production capability of the U. S., the U-boat campaign would have succeeded.  Instead, we produced more ships than the Germans could sink, we produced more planes than the Germans could shoot down, etc.

So, instead of bitching about how "lucky" WE were, you should be thankful for it, because, in the end, YOU benefitted from it.

Just my 2 cents regarding this issue.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 21, 2020, 10:10:44 AM
Maybe you guys didn’t notice that Orange Inflated didn’t say word one in support of Hong Kong. Kissy kissy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan McEntee on March 21, 2020, 10:12:43 AM
Very true, Dan.  If not for the geography which allowed North America to be out of reach of any serious offensive campaign the Japanese and Germans might have attempted, our industrial capability could have been crippled and the world might be quite different now.

And, although the Atlantic Ocean shielded us to some extent, remember how serious the situation was in England due to the U-boats.  At one time, England was down to about one month supply of food, ammo, gasoline, etc.  If not for the massive production capability of the U. S., the U-boat campaign would have succeeded.  Instead, we produced more ships than the Germans could sink, we produced more planes than the Germans could shoot down, etc.

So, instead of bitching about how "lucky" WE were, you should be thankful for it, because, in the end, YOU benefitted from it.

Just my 2 cents regarding this issue.


    A new movie is coming out with Tom Hanks called "Greyhound" and is about the convoy escorts and their being hunted by the U-boat wolf packs. Can't wait to see it.  It's kind of a forgotten aspect of the war in Europe. I'm an airplane nerd, but there is a deep Navy tradition in my family history that I never forget. Was it Henry Kaiser who took over the production of the Liberty cargo ships and managed to crank out one a day at the height of production, or some other impossible number? Henry Ford producing a B-24 bomber at a rate of in per hour? It would have been impossible with out a total, full effort of the American people, including our women folk, the WASPs, WAVEs, and the Rosie Riveters who stepped up. It's hard for some people to fathom this even in our advanced technical society.
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Jim Roselle on March 21, 2020, 10:15:29 AM
How many people who have publicly called covid-19 a hoax on this forum are willing to publicly commit to not going to the hospital and taking up valuable bed space if they get diagnosed with covid? Come on big talkers, it’s a big hoax.
Title: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 21, 2020, 10:16:08 AM
Ahh. The trained seals are barking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve Dwyer on March 21, 2020, 10:20:40 AM
Can we change the tempo a bit? Below are a few quips I jotted down, can anyone add to the list? It may be amusing.

Steve

Life is Changing.

I went to the bank drive-thru yesterday only to immediately discard the latex gloves and douse my hands in sanitizer after touching the carrier.

Walking in from outside I go directly to the washbasin with hand in the air like a surgeon going into operation.

I visited my grandkids yesterday, they stood on one side of the street while we stayed on the other with cars going between us.

I used to occasionally read the obits to find if anyone I knew had died, now I turn on the TV every morning to see how many thousands more have died from this pandemic.

Today I sit in the confines of my four walls attempting to feel secure with only the false hope I may have more toilet paper than my neighbor.

Went for a ride yesterday windows down radio blasting along a nearby country road trying to forget what is taking place then I looked at my fuel gauge and realized I have to get out my latex gloves and mask before getting out to fill up.

I walked down into the shop yesterday to stand and look around then told myself I have everything I’ll ever need for another project. I have to, after all, going to Lowes or HD is too high a risk for an old geezer like me.

At 72 I’m still employed or was on a part-time basis as an estimator for a construction company. It keeps me busy and I enjoy staying engaged. Yesterday I was instructed to apply for unemployment this is a first for me.

If I looked at an oral thermometer one a year it would be a lot, now I use it daily.






Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan Berry on March 21, 2020, 10:30:13 AM
Ahh. The trained seals are barking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You sure are.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan McEntee on March 21, 2020, 10:40:47 AM
How many people who have publicly called covid-19 a hoax on this forum are willing to publicly commit to not going to the hospital and taking up valuable bed space if they get diagnosed with covid? Come on big talkers, it’s a big hoax.


   If you read each and every post, I think you will find that no one has stated that it was a hoax, just a gross over reaction and driven hysteria, and as the thread title asks, compared to what?? More people are and will die from the flu. Most people that contract Covid19 are being treated at home. We see the photos and videos of celebrities and such waving to us from behind glass doors. The average, normally healthy person would only get symptoms similar to a bad cold, and that has been known since the very beginning, but has not been emphasized enough. As I watch my local news, they are starting to run out of things to get dramatic about their "facts about Covid19" are getting more menial by the day. There are people that need to be concerned about it, but their conditions are that they need to be concerned about a LOT of other illnesses also. It has been stated and proven by a lot of prominent doctors that you are statistically more likely to die from a flu virus. I'll bet there have been a lot of people that HAVE had it, but didn't know it, and just self treated as they would have a normal cold or flu. I think that is why you have some of these concentrated "breakouts" And even at it's worst, you are still only talking about 200 some odd case world wide out of a population of billions of people. The people that efforts should be focused on are the most at risk which are the elderly with existing health complications, and other ages with similar health issues. You are talking about a MUCH smaller target and you wouldn't have to worry about these shortages. Check out that map that Ted posted the link to and look at it closely and let that sink in. Then watch that video that Tony Drago posted and let that sink in.  There is more being done to drive and fan the hysteria and panic than there is to suppress it and spread good information. Time will tell what was correct.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve Dwyer on March 21, 2020, 11:05:23 AM
Ok, a few more have come to mind. Your responses have to be your own, nothing off line let's be original.

Here's a few more to add.

Quips # 2

I used to go to the shower to freshen up now I take a shower to detoxify.

Traditionally when I discovered the roll was down to the last square I’d swing around to find a new roll sitting on the tank. Now I have to wonder where the wife is hiding the stash.

Are all the "Conservative" right-wingers using only one square to do their part?


Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 21, 2020, 11:23:25 AM
Are all the "Conservative" right-wingers using only one square to do their part?
Probably not.  One has never been enough.  Maybe progressives can do it with one but that would mean that they have wisecracks.

Now that we have separated the herd and played "Wack-a Troll" some, isn't it about time we got back to
discussing flying?

Ken
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve Dwyer on March 21, 2020, 11:31:28 AM
Ken Thanks much, yes let's get back to flying. There is nothing productive from verbal abuse and bullying, what does it accomplish except drive apart what has been a great site to use for CL information?

Steve
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Jim Roselle on March 21, 2020, 11:33:32 AM

This is not the flu. It is much more transmissible and severe.
The average person with the flu will transmit to 1.2 other people.
A person with covid will transmit to 2-3 people.
This is why the first 100,000 cases took 3 months to develop and the second 100,000 developed in 12 days.
20% of people infected will need emergency room care. If this spreads unchecked we won’t have enough hospital beds and people will die unnecessarily. No ones being asked to “stay home and worry” as someone stated. You’re being asked to stay home and protect the entire community, not just yourself.
And no, I won’t watch a facebook video someone shot at home and pretend it’s news from a reputable source.


   If you read each and every post, I think you will find that no one has stated that it was a hoax, just a gross over reaction and driven hysteria, and as the thread title asks, compared to what?? More people are and will die from the flu. Most people that contract Covid19 are being treated at home. We see the photos and videos of celebrities and such waving to us from behind glass doors. The average, normally healthy person would only get symptoms similar to a bad cold, and that has been known since the very beginning, but has not been emphasized enough. As I watch my local news, they are starting to run out of things to get dramatic about their "facts about Covid19" are getting more menial by the day. There are people that need to be concerned about it, but their conditions are that they need to be concerned about a LOT of other illnesses also. It has been stated and proven by a lot of prominent doctors that you are statistically more likely to die from a flu virus. I'll bet there have been a lot of people that HAVE had it, but didn't know it, and just self treated as they would have a normal cold or flu. I think that is why you have some of these concentrated "breakouts" And even at it's worst, you are still only talking about 200 some odd case world wide out of a population of billions of people. The people that efforts should be focused on are the most at risk which are the elderly with existing health complications, and other ages with similar health issues. You are talking about a MUCH smaller target and you wouldn't have to worry about these shortages. Check out that map that Ted posted the link to and look at it closely and let that sink in. Then watch that video that Tony Drago posted and let that sink in.  There is more being done to drive and fan the hysteria and panic than there is to suppress it and spread good information. Time will tell what was correct.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 21, 2020, 11:52:22 AM
Maybe you guys didn’t notice that Orange Inflated didn’t say word one in support of Hong Kong. Kissy kissy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dennis,

What is it you are trying to say?  Because whatever it is is not obvious even to a European.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 21, 2020, 11:55:57 AM
Ok, a few more have come to mind. Your responses have to be your own, nothing off line let's be original.

Here's a few more to add.

Quips # 2

I used to go to the shower to freshen up now I take a shower to detoxify.

Traditionally when I discovered the roll was down to the last square I’d swing around to find a new roll sitting on the tank. Now I have to wonder where the wife is hiding the stash.
[\quote]
I
Steve,

You have some alternatives:

1. Give up.

2. Bend over.

3.  Man up and make lemonade.

4. Continue whining.  I have some cheese I can Fedex you if you need it.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dave_Trible on March 21, 2020, 11:56:29 AM
I will only say that being someone in the 65+ age bracket I’d consider it a favor to stay home and sit this out while the pestilence passes over.  However I was just handed a letter to show law enforcement to let me pass since my employer is considered critical infrastructure.  This is a serious matter and will become much more so soon.  It’s really no respecter of age, place in life or political party.  It’s an equal opportunity killer of those it chooses.  If you can,  hunker down and stay well.

Dave
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Mike Griffin on March 21, 2020, 12:17:37 PM
Mike I think if you look at real history books (the ones without all the pictures) you'll find that the French financed and won the Revolutionary War on behalf of the rather disorganized continental states.  Perhaps you're not aware of the enormous contribution that the European's in general made to the foundation of the USA? Also I think that you'll find that most scholars agree that the Soviets made the biggest contribution to victory in WW2 of all the Allies. You're sounding very much like a Monty Python skit, "what have the Europeans ever done for us?" I see that someone has already mentioned the Dunning Kruger effect, Paranoia and Xenophobia.

In view of the recent leadership shenanigans in your country, it may be better if your Government detains the Clown in Chief, and humbly apologize to Her Majesty for the past insult to good King George the 3rd.  She make take you up again as a colony if you're lucky.

Mr. Gaz,


I would suggest you stick to building model planes.  Your stupidity as to actual history is making you look like a glittering jewel of colossal ignorance.

Mike
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: john e. holliday on March 21, 2020, 12:23:42 PM
With the help of the media, all sources, this is scary.  I've had chest congestion long before this scare started.  Been taking pills to get rid of it.  It is nice to not have all the traffic as I went to the hobby shop yesterday.  Clerks only people in the store and no balsa.  Did pick up a bottle of CA.  Wife is still working part time and I sat in the car while she was shopping and stocking up on stuff.  As far as toilet paper, what is the reason?  Since I can't reach my back side I use a brush and running water.  Do wash my hands more often than I used to.   Trying to drink more water than coffee,  but coffee calms me down.  Of course being retired I don't get out as much as when I was working.   But I asked the wife how many people died yesterday from accidents or highway crashes? 

If the media would tell the truth with true facts I might listen/read them.   But in reality people are so upset we have a President doing what should have been done all along.  But I guess that is what we get for having a business man instead of a politician telling us what people want to hear.  Do you get the idea I don't trust politicians either.    R%%%%
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Arlan McKee on March 21, 2020, 12:34:53 PM
Maybe you guys didn’t notice that Orange Inflated didn’t say word one in support of Hong Kong. Kissy kissy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Once again, Dennis, you have no Idea what you are talking about.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-at-un-offers-his-most-forceful-support-for-hong-kong-yet/ar-AAHMroh

I chose a link to a leftist site just for you.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 21, 2020, 01:01:11 PM
On a more pleasant note, my friend Ken Dufour, 80 years young, and I went flying at Friendship Park, Avondale, AZ with our three stunt ships.

I flew my Dave Rees T-38a and my Tucker 4 while Ken flew his SIG Twister once.  He had a leaky fuel tank.

It was a great day.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: john e. holliday on March 21, 2020, 01:03:53 PM
Great to hear you are flying again. H^^
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 21, 2020, 01:24:53 PM
Great to hear you are flying again. H^^

Doc,

After I retired from AFJROTC at Buckeye, AZ I started building and flying again in earnest. So far I am building 2 to 3 a year flying about 3 to 4 times a week. I have 2 Tucker 4s, Kostecky Patriot, Rees T-38a, Price Crusader, Wooley Argus, Suarez Phantom, English Quasar, and a Palmer Zero.  Presently I am flying the T-38, the Tucker 4, Patriot, and Crusader. Too many choices, too much fun.

Many of my planes (6) have been donated to the Glenn L. Martin Aviation Museum at the Martin State Airport.   Two Martin B-26 Marauders (one that flew twice at the VSC) a Sterling birdcage F-4U-1A Corsair, Musciano Bellanca Flash, Westland Wyvern, and a semi-scale NF-104 Starfighter that flew at the Brodak and Palisades Park. This is a great museum that deserves our support.  A fellow control line stunt flyer is assistant there by the name of Bernie Trent. 
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Toth on March 21, 2020, 01:57:29 PM
Speaking of flying today my good friend Lynn and I got to the field. We are in Martin county and there are only a few cases of C19 in the far western part of the county. Our parks are still open but all events are on hold. Lynn is a great friend and a little older so I try to watch out for him. We keep our social distance but still had a great time and fun conversation. It was a great time. Hopefully, since my company wants us to work from home for the next two weeks I hope to get a little work done on my Barnstormer between calls.

So, guys stay healthy, wash your hands and when bored at being home - build something great. We will get through this.

Best,     DennisT

Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ted Fancher on March 21, 2020, 01:59:56 PM
Maybe you guys didn’t notice that Orange Inflated didn’t say word one in support of Hong Kong. Kissy kissy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow!!! Deep, Dennis!  Impeccable name calling!

What are you now, in the "next" to bottom quintile of your second grade trash talking class?

Just guessing here...I bet you borrowed that colorfully clever crotch carresser from somebody else in the class and just pretended you made it up yourself.  Right?

Ted
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve Dwyer on March 21, 2020, 02:07:34 PM
 I've had chest congestion long before this scare started.  Been taking pills to get rid of it.

 It is nice to not have all the traffic as I went to the hobby shop yesterday. But in reality people are so upset we have a President doing what should have been done all along.  But I guess that is what we get for having a business man instead of a politician telling us what people want to hear.  Do you get the idea I don't trust politicians either.   
[/quote]

Doc,
 I'm curious, I have had chest congestion for about three weeks before this the scare hit us. It began with a head cold and an infection in my chest which I resolved with an antibiotic. I have Asthma and usually experience a bout in the fall or the spring. I'm on my 4th course of Predisone along with daily use of Dulera inhaler a Cortisonal med to improve breathing. I am very concerned, presently I am experiencing fatigue, chest tightness and shortness of breath, BUT no fever thank God. I had an x-ray Monday to verify clarity in my chest. This is no hoax for me if I get this bug and it goes into my lungs I told my wife write me off.

Our chief politicians don't really seem to grasp reality. We sit here concerned, worried and even a little afraid but who are we? I guess we're just the expendables of war. Try not to be concerned stay home "the masks are on the way", "everything is incredibly fantastic and wonderful"

Good luck to you my friend!!!

Steve

Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 21, 2020, 02:28:24 PM
The gloom and doom on this thread from a few reminds me of Grandpa Jones and Junior on that (outstanding) TV show of the 70s and early 80s named "Hee Haw".  They would sing the following ditty:

Gloom despair and agony on me
Deep dark depression excessive misery
If I had no bad luck I have no luck at all
Gloom despair and agony on me

I just can't identify with that. We, the USA will conquer this unseen enemy and come out better on the other side.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 21, 2020, 02:30:44 PM

Wow!!! Deep, Dennis!  Impeccable name calling!

What are you now, in the "next" to bottom quintile of your second grade trash talking class?

Just guessing here...I bet you borrowed that colorfully clever crotch carresser from somebody else in the class and just pretended you made it up yourself.  Right?


   Hey, take it easy on Dennis - it's really hard making it as a playwright, when you are functionally illiterate.

     Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Peter in Fairfax, VA on March 21, 2020, 02:46:08 PM
Well, this discussion has taken a turn.  With our cohort, it often returns to WW II history.

The battle of Kursk was not won primarily with lend-lease tanks, but instead the T-34. This is not to diminish the contributions of the Americans and British to the Soviets, but simply to recognize the 57,000 T-34s produced during the war.

Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: John Hammonds on March 21, 2020, 02:49:33 PM
I am both amazed and dismayed at some of the comments in this thread and I hope the posts say more about the individual than the views of American people generally.

I have many interests apart from Toy Planes and as you can imagine all forums I freguent have there own "Corona Virus" posts. This is the only one where it has migrated from discussing the virus through to lambasting the various National Political parties until finally attacking every other nation regardless of their current situation or ethnic/religious background.

I had assumed I was in the presence of rational adults here and have been both a follower and supporter of Stunt Hanger for many years but the only reason I follow this thread is to check that no one has sadly passed away as a result of the current situation.

My interests and job put me in contact with many people from all over the world and I have many friends from various countries of European, Asian, Antipodean and American, locality/decent. With Liberal, Democrat, Conservative, Labour political views. Some are really struggling at the moment.

For my part I am reasonably healthy but being the wrong side of 60 am treating this situation with the same amount of respect as I would a left sided stroke.

Do, as some have posted people really think the US are working in isolation at trying to develop a vaccine and/or cure? I really hope not. This is a Pandemic and needs the appropriate response from Virologists and medical research experts across the globe and I really hope this is the case.

Flame away, I won't rise to your petty attacks, but for chrissakes guys get a grip.

TTFN
John.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan Berry on March 21, 2020, 02:52:46 PM
   Hey, take it easy on Dennis - it's really hard making it as a playwright, when you are functionally illiterate.

     Brett

Ouch
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 21, 2020, 03:10:12 PM
Hey Brett,

I am getting closer to the ground on my pullouts. Not there consistently yet.

Different subject. Is this going to be the first manned launch of Space-X?

If it is, many prayers for the crew.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 21, 2020, 03:24:18 PM
So easy when you aren't getting bombed morning, noon and night! Remind me how many actual bombs / munitions have actually fallen on the continental USA in the last 100 years?
Why does the USA insist on being the world's policeman if you don't like the rest of the world so much? Why choose the pre-emptive invasion option when not ever having to fend off that option yourselves - how would you feel if it was tried - pretty pissed I guess? Maybe if YOU stopped meddling in the affairs of others, they wouldn't be so hostile against you - Iran or Afghanistan are hardly liable to try invading the USA?
No one has any right to degrade the memory of ANYONE (friend or foe) who served their country during wartime as wars are fought by ordinary people under the direction of politicians for reasons most don't understand or necessarily agree with but generally behind the scenes someone profits from wars - generally people that are supplying the materials, raw or unfinished.
Pull out of NATO, the majority of europeans wouldn't even notice / care - don't threaten to do it - just do it. The era of 'Sabre rattling' diplomacy is over, lets everyone stop trying to convert the 'other side' to christianity / islam, communist / capitalist, socialist / liberalist / conservative, expansionist / isolationist etc. etc. etc. and we may get on a whole lot better?
This virus doesn't care where you are, how wealthy or poor you are or what your politics are - just how sick it can make you ! ! ! One would hope that every country possessing a pharma industry is striving to produce a vaccine and when it becomes available, the recipe is shared around freely - but I doubt that will happen . . . . . . . . as said, there are always profiteers in war time!

You raise some very valid questions/points; we can surely agree on several.

I, for one, don’t want to be the world’s policeman.  But the “big kid on the block” is often asked to be just that.  Witness Hong Kong protesters calling on us ...  Did you notice them waving American flags and praising Trump?

When you Brits turned Hong Kong over to China, the Chinese agreed to honor the “one country, two systems” status for 50 years.  They clearly violated the terms of that treaty, why aren’t YOU screaming at the Chinese, and why aren’t the protesters calling on the British for help?

I’ve noticed over the years that many people criticize and/or resent the wealthy and have come to the (personal) conclusion it’s driven by envy.  When many criticize America and/or Trump, I often feel it’s driven by ... (fill in the blank).  We/he simply can’t win.

Just this past week I read a magazine article criticizing - no, demonizing - Trump for withdrawing forces from Syria, thereby putting the safety of Kurds at risk.  Indeed, the Kurds want us there to protect them.  Even as they acknowledge their ultimate goal would be to invade portions of Turkey to establish an independent nation state.

Either way, America/Trump is wrong, we are responsible for the absence of peace.  Which pretty much sums up everyday life for us.


Dennis
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 21, 2020, 03:45:34 PM
Well, this discussion has taken a turn.  With our cohort, it often returns to WW II history.

The battle of Kursk was not won primarily with lend-lease tanks, but instead the T-34. This is not to diminish the contributions of the Americans and British to the Soviets, but simply to recognize the 57,000 T-34s produced during the war.

   The T-34 was probably the most effective tank in the war. The much-maligned Sherman had one overwhelming attribute - there was a huge number of them. When introduced, it was cheap reliable, and easily a match for the contemporary German tanks. It was improved only slowly, and other tank development was slow, because no one wanted to interrupt Sherman production to make something "better". the Germans introduced one super-tank after another, but because of that, they had slow production, and many of them were highly unreliable. When they were running and an adequate number were brought to bear, (and they had fuel) they were extremely effective. But that doesn't matter if they are broken down or they are greatly outnumbered. The Sherman was never intended to fight tank-to-tank.

   The T-34 was similar in that they were easy/quick to build and fairly reliable. They were no match head to head with the later Panzers, Panther, or either Tiger, but that wasn't necessary. The Russians used the *huge numbers* of Shermans until they had *huge numbers* ot T-34s.

  We eventually built better tanks, but they were in short supply, because they were unnecessary, by that time the war was essentially won in Europe, and to first approximation were either not needed in the Pacific, or far more than a match for anything that might have been used by the Japanese in the defense of the home islands.

   I don't think anyone significantly debates that it was the British, USSR, and USA were the major players, and hard to attribute it to just one. The French did nothing but run away, and then collaborate with the Nazis and even weakly fought the Allies.  The few who escaped, like the Government in Exile (self proclaimed) De Gaulle, did nothing but make a pain in the ass of himself. The Polish were overwhelmed, but were absolutely *fierce*. Everyone else just got steamrolled.

   I think what has happened since is a lot more important and relevant, essentially, all of Europe has indulged themselves in social experiments and claims of moral and cultural superiority - rebuilt, financed, and defended more-or-less free of charge, friend and foe alike, by the US Taxpayer. It real easy to give away tons of *someone else's money*.

    It's interesting to note that we have only allowed France to have a completely independent nuclear deterrent, the British being more of a partnership.

    Compare that to the Japanese, occupied and directed to our standards. The recovered pretty quickly, and became an economic powerhouse, although we do not permit them to fully defend themselves, it's clear that if we did, they would prove formidable. They are a "de facto" nuclear power - able to develop weapons in the order of a few months, if they set their minds to it.

    Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 21, 2020, 04:00:21 PM
Good News!!  Due to airlines being pretty much shut sown. CNN has  lost 99.8% of its viewers.


   They are still on in prisons.

    Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 21, 2020, 04:15:54 PM
Good News!!  Due to airlines being pretty much shut sown. CNN has  lost 99.8% of its viewers.

For info the "hoax" the president was referring to was some news "reporting",NOT the virus. H^^
  LL~ y1 in that order.

Ken
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 21, 2020, 04:31:53 PM

Different subject. Is this going to be the first manned launch of Space-X?

If it is, many prayers for the crew.

   The May launch? I think it probably is. To be honest, I am not sure what to expect. I don't work with anything either SpaceX or NASA (at least for a long time now), but the knock on NASA is that they are too conservative. SpaceX doesn't seem to have that problems. As big a putz as Elon Musk is, he's not actually doing the work, an I know they have some pretty sharp people over there.

   We are going again on Thursday, which should be no problem, aside from having all these isolation restrictions.

    Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 21, 2020, 04:54:45 PM
Good News!!  Due to airlines being pretty much shut sown. CNN has  lost 99.8% of its viewers.

For info the "hoax" the president was referring to was some news "reporting",NOT the virus. H^^

Ty,  bases loaded homer run!  Tears are streaming from my tear ducts.

Different subject; did you get your Tucker 4 flying right?
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve Dwyer on March 21, 2020, 06:23:10 PM
John Hammonds,

 I can't agree with you more on your many points and for anyone to say what Tom McClain has said (he said some say) ----he says, as follows, I have the following final comment.

"Some the gloom and doom on this thread reminds of Grandpa Jones and Junior on that (outstanding) TV show of the 70s and early 80s named "Hee Haw".  They would sing the following ditty:"

Gloom despair and agony on me
Deep dark depression excessive misery
If I had no bad luck I have no luck at all
Gloom despair and agony on me

"I just can't identify with this"

We are in a real serious jamb here in our country and worldwide and it's going to get worse while some like this fool enjoy making lite of others' difficulties. HE said "he can't identify with that"  people like him are typically unable to.

I'm now stepping away at this point and leaving my word I will never waste my time looking at this bizarre thread again. I have no respect for the thinking of these people. Perhaps I can block it. I RECOMMEND ANYONE WATCHING HERE THAT HAS ANY SENSE AND CAPACITY FOR HUMANITY STAY AWAY. LEAVE THESE SAD, LACKING, BACKSTABBING, BIGOTTED AND NARROW-MINDED PEOPLE TO THEMSELVES, THEY DESERVE KICKING EACH OTHER AROUND AND HAVE NO PLACE ON MODELING PLATFORM LIKE SH.

Goodbye I'll see you at the next modeling appropriate topic

Steve
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan McEntee on March 21, 2020, 07:48:16 PM
   And this attitude , Steve, is exactly why I can't go out and find a roll of toilet paper tonight, if I had real need of it. What you are displaying is the panic and hysteria that some of us are talking about. "We" all are not in a real jam. This "thing" is NOT a death sentence for EVERYONE that happens to contract it. There is no reason to be stupid and not take some precaution, but to panic and run around like Chicken Little is ridiculous. I asked the question before, is there anyone that has been directly affected by this event, and I don't think anyone has answered other than me. I got laid off for three weeks because of orders practically coming to a stop, and the owner of the company was just looking for a reason to lay people off, but told us they were 'giving you the opportunity to self quarantine at home and avoid further transmission." even in a high population density area like New York, you might go a long way before you find some one that has been directly affected. But millions and millions of peoples lives have been affected due to the markets crashing, and some people's futures ruined because of this panic. And there is no reason for it. Even with some people's concerns about flying and traveling on cruise ships have been over blown. Yes, some people have contracted the virus, but again, compared to what? People get sick on cruise ships and die every year, and is the main reason I won't ever go on one. But that happens under "normal circumstances."  It would be interesting to see a comparison of deaths  per year on cruise ships against what has happened recently with the virus. As of just a few minutes ago, the death total WORLD WIDE is still far below what the total deaths from the flu have been in THIS COUNTRY for the last year. Not even half, and flu season isn't over yet for a while. Yes, this is a serious situation, but it has also has shown me who I would want to have around me in an emergency or if I was stranded on a deserted island and who I would NOT want around. Isn't there a saying that goes something like, "Blessed are those that can keep their heads while those all around are loosing theirs!"
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
 
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 21, 2020, 08:35:43 PM
John Hammonds,

 I can't agree with you more on your many points and for anyone to say what Tom McClain has said (he said some say) ----he says, as follows, I have the following final comment.

"Some of the gloom and doom on this thread reminds of Grandpa Jones and Junior on that (outstanding) TV show of the 70s and early 80s named "Hee Haw".  They would sing the following ditty:"

Gloom despair and agony on me
Deep dark depression excessive misery
If I had no bad luck I have no luck at all
Gloom despair and agony on me

"I just can't identify with this"

We are in a real serious jamb here in our country and worldwide and it's going to get worse while some like this fool enjoy making lite of others' difficulties. HE said "he can't identify with that"  people like him are typically unable to.

I'm now stepping away at this point and leaving my word I will never waste my time looking at this bizarre thread again. I have no respect for the thinking of these people. Perhaps I can block it. I RECOMMEND ANYONE WATCHING HERE THAT HAS ANY SENSE AND CAPACITY FOR HUMANITY STAY AWAY. LEAVE THESE SAD, LACKING, BACKSTABBING, BIGOTTED AND NARROW-MINDED PEOPLE TO THEMSELVES, THEY DESERVE KICKING EACH OTHER AROUND AND HAVE NO PLACE ON MODELING PLATFORM LIKE SH.

Goodbye I'll see you at the next modeling appropriate topic

Steve

Steve,

You deliberately misunderstand me. This is serious and any death is a tragedy. My wife and I are doing as the President has requested and sheltering in place and when out, practicing social distancing. My wife has a 93 year old father and we respecting his privacy and keeping him protected at his assisted living facility. But, we know that this shall pass. So, I refuse to be a Debby Downer.

So, are you going to be an ostrich or stay optimistic and engaged. The latter is a better way to live.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 21, 2020, 08:44:04 PM
Isn't there a saying that goes something like, "Blessed are those that can keep their heads while those all around are loosing theirs!"
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
 

Rudyard Kipling, Dan.  I found his poem, IF, when I was 9 and have tried to guide much in my life by it -

If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,   
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;   
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
    And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;   
    If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;   
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;   
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
    And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,   
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,   
    Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,   
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,   
    And - which is more - you’ll be a Man, my son!
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan McEntee on March 21, 2020, 09:05:08 PM
   HEY, Thanks Dennis. I'll have to print that and put it up somewhere.
    Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Robert Zambelli on March 22, 2020, 09:29:04 PM
Sorry for the lateness in responding to my own thread but nobody to blame but myself.
I had no idea what an interesting assortment of replies it would generate! Furthermore, I’m pleased to say that most of the responses were informative, polite, to the point and showed a true sense of patriotism.
I learned a lot from you and I thank you for the kinds comments!!

Of course, a few of the responses were cruel, mean, ignorant and totally uncalled-for.

So, there are a few Trump haters out there.
Here’s my challenge: Who do you think would make a better President than Trump?
Let’s hear your answers.


If you don’t answer, I will take your silence as a true sign of ignorance as you haven’t a clue what’s going on in the world. You just enjoy hiding behind your keyboard, bitching, complaining and hurling insults at one of the best presidents in history.

The only thing you accomplish is making complete fools of yourselves.
You don’t like the way our country is being run? THEN LEAVE.

And you foreigners who insult and complain about Trump? Simple solution: STAY IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY. Enjoy your pathetic royal weddings, liberal and sickening excuses for leaders and complete lack of knowledge of our wonderful country. Your opinions and insults ARE NOT WELCOME, at least not by me.

Bob Z.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Mike Griffin on March 22, 2020, 09:49:17 PM
Bob, they all should be thanking GOD that we have Donald Trump as a President right now.  I could not think of a better man for the job given the current circumstances. 

Mike
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 22, 2020, 09:52:06 PM
Sorry for the lateness in responding to my own thread but nobody to blame but myself.
I had no idea what an interesting assortment of replies it would generate! Furthermore, I’m pleased to say that most of the responses were informative, polite, to the point and showed a true sense of patriotism.
I learned a lot from you and I thank you for the kinds comments!!

Of course, a few of the responses were cruel, mean, ignorant and totally uncalled-for.

So, there are a few Trump haters out there.
Here’s my challenge: Who do you think would make a better President than Trump?
Let’s hear your answers.


If you don’t answer, I will take your silence as a true sign of ignorance as you haven’t a clue what’s going on in the world. You just enjoy hiding behind your keyboard, bitching, complaining and hurling insults at one of the best presidents in history.

The only thing you accomplish is making complete fools of yourselves.
You don’t like the way our country is being run? THEN LEAVE.

And you foreigners who insult and complain about Trump? Simple solution: STAY IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY. Enjoy your pathetic royal weddings, liberal and sickening excuses for leaders and complete lack of knowledge of our wonderful country. Your opinions and insults ARE NOT WELCOME, at least not by me.

Bob Z.
And now that you have our tempered response... LL~
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan McEntee on March 22, 2020, 10:31:17 PM
  It would be nice to get some consistent , real information, instead of the panic and hysteria that the media is shoveling out at us. Even with the map that Ted posted the link to, it doesn't show any recovered cases in this country, and I find it hard to believe that no one has been considered recovered. All the head lines I see and news I hear is the Mayor of New York blaming everyone else, mainly the President, for his problems in New York city. And the President is correct, if the states are poorly prepared that is not the federal governments fault, but the fault of the governments of those states. The states that are the least prepared should take care of their leadership problems at the next election. Trillions of dollars are being literally dumped on this in an attempt to smother the problem. Trump can't do it all himself, the states have to be pulling their end of the rope also. 330,000 total cases world wide, and 14,600 deaths  world wide, out of a population of 7.8  BILLION people. As this threads title continues to ask, so do I . Compared to what? 14,000 deaths isn't half way to what we had in flu deaths since the 2018,2019 flu seasons to today IN THIS COUNTRY ALONE.  The level of panic and hysteria just doesn't match the level of the threat in my opinion. If you are dead from Covid19 you are not any more dead than you are from the current flu virus which is killing more people, even the "normally healthy."  The US is at approximately 33,000 cases and 460 deaths, out of a population of 330,000,000. That is three hundred and thirty million people. This just all does not add up and answer why I can't go out tonight and buy a roll of toilet paper or a box of Frosted Flakes???
     Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: M Spencer on March 22, 2020, 11:32:09 PM
 " Let’s hear your answers. " .

Joe Walsh

Quote
Walsh had often joked about running for office, announcing a mock presidential campaign in 1980 and a vice presidential campaign in 1992. Walsh ran for President of the United States in 1980, promising to make "Life's Been Good" the new national anthem if he won, and ran on a platform of "Free Gas For Everyone".[63] Though Walsh was only 32 at the time of the election and thus would not have met the 35-year-old requirement to actually assume office, he said that he wanted to raise public awareness of the election.[64] In 1992 Walsh ran for vice president with Rev. Goat Carson under the slogan "We Want Our Money Back!"[65]

NOT to be confused with JOSEPH Walsh ! . The current wotsit .

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Librays closed with the ballyhoo , from tomorrow . so my access to electronic wonders will be somewhat currtailed . Sighs of relief all round .

Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ed W. Prohaska on March 23, 2020, 12:12:29 AM
So there were 34,200 flu deaths and 38,800 traffic deaths. Makes you wonder why more resources aren't directed to traffic safety and prevention and treatment of the flu. I live in a rural area of south east Nebraska on the Iowa border. Its something like Mayberry RFD, but the sheriff has more than one deputy and they aren't limited to 3 bullets.

We have cases of the virus and the numbers are growing, but its nothing like the runaway areas of New York and the west coast. Those places have a real emergency. It seems like Governor Cuomo is dealing with it more aggressively and systematically than the feds, but he can't print money. At least both coasts are getting a hospital ship, the Corp of Engineers is building field hospitals, hopefully as fast as the Chinese, cruise ships are being converted to floating hospitals and the feds are flooding the economy with cash.

Unfortunately we've spent the last 40 years shipping much of our manufacturing base overseas, mostly to Asia. I hope I'm wrong, but I just can't see Apple, Tesla or GM gearing up to make ventilators in the needed quantity and quality soon enough. The garment industry should be better positioned to make gowns, caps, booties and masks, but do we still have any garment industry here?

The virus should teach us, among other things, that we need to keep at least a small manufacturing base of critical items, and their supply chains, within our borders for situations like this, even if they must be government subsidized or government owned. It would be a lot easier to expand production of something that's already up and running on a small scale, than to start from scratch in an emergency with companies whose skill set is very different.

At least it seems that we only have to deal with one crisis at a time. Imagine what would happen if a major regional war erupted in Korea or the middle east, or both, while the virus was still running wild? Add to that a strong hurricane hitting Florida and the gulf coast plus a major earthquake in California and eruption of the Yellowstone Super Volcano. Sounds like a real doomsday prophesy. Improbable? Yes, very. Impossible? No. 

By the way, I feel better than I should for someone with my health history. I've survived cancer, a heart attack, almost a stroke, a ruptured hernia, surgeries for all of those issues, have been living with an autoimmune disease for nearly 30 years and I'm pre-diabetic. During the last 20 years I was the primary caregiver for my mother who passed in September of last year at age 98. For the past 10 years, and especially the last 5, care giving was almost an overwhelming job. As mom got sicker and needed more care, I got older and weaker.

I really empathize with the doctors, nurses and their many assistants fighting the virus on the front lines. This is a real challenge for them and it will get worse before it levels off and reduces. According to the news, if I get the virus, I'm toast, but I'm thinking that I just won't get it. If I'm wrong, well, nothing lasts forever. Later (maybe). EWP
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: John Park on March 23, 2020, 03:02:32 AM
Over here in England, the govt. seems to be doing all the right things, introducing measures at the appropriate time etc., but the news media are letting us down!  There's too much 'shock, horror!' journalism, and the prevailing mood (which they're trying to pass on to the general public) is: "PANIC! PANIC! We're all gonna die!  AAAAAGH!!!". 
As for me, I'm in the throes of deciding whether to build a couple of 1/2A models for when we can get to use a circle an old flying buddy is carving out in the middle of his birch wood, or whether I should get on with my dream model, an own-design with Fancherised Twister 'numbers' and the styling of my favourite 1950s design, Josef Gabris's 'Master' (forerunner of his better-known 'Super Master').  I think the answer is: 1/2A models first, then the big one.  The new .46LA that's going in it needs a little running as well.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan Berry on March 23, 2020, 08:19:22 AM
Better president?
Ask anybody!

Max, from Europe.

See reply #94.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan McEntee on March 23, 2020, 08:47:24 AM

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

    Again, a funny thing about this map that Ted posted the above link to. You can play around and click the different countries to see what's happening. If you click on the US, you get the total for number of cases and deaths, but 0 for recoveries. I find it strange that they have no data for recoveries.

  Makes one wonder??
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Jim Kraft on March 23, 2020, 10:35:21 AM
last I heard the death rate here is right at 2 percent of those that get it. That is the same as the flu. We are all going to suffer the economic effect of the panic.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 23, 2020, 10:52:55 AM
Never thought that the panic would hit Dallas but then I forgot we have a Democrat Mayor.  We go on lockdown at midnight tonight.  Everything will be shut down except utility bills and taxes. 

Ken
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Arlan McKee on March 23, 2020, 11:08:53 AM
Spain and Italy reacted to late, just as you all do.
Face the consequences.

Max,
Several other people have already told you what a smug, pompous jerk you are so I won't bother with adding to that. Instead, since you think the Netherlands are so superior to the USA let's compare the current statistics.
In the USA as of this morning we have 39517 confirmed cases resulting in 473 deaths. So a little less than 1.2% of the cases have died. The total cases represent .012% of our population.
In the Netherlands this morning you have 4750 cases resulting in 213 deaths. That means 4.48% of the known cases died and .028% of the population is infected.
I am no mathematician, but it appears to me that your country has over twice the rate of infection and a death rate almost 4 times higher.

You would think that since your country has superior political and health systems to the USA that those numbers would be reversed.
Yet another case study in the wonders of socialized medicine.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Robert Zambelli on March 23, 2020, 11:30:00 AM
Max,
Several other people have already told you what a smug, pompous jerk you are so I won't bother with adding to that.

Arlan - thanks for summing it up so perfectly!
Notice the our man max has not yet answered my challenge with a better man than Trump?
Like the majority of Trump haters, they gripe about him but NOBODY comes up with a better man for the job.
I know that at least one responder voted for clinton so maybe he'll chime in on what a great president she would have made?
Bob Z.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: FLOYD CARTER on March 23, 2020, 11:41:04 AM
A better president?

I'm not going to answer.  That doesn't make me ignorant, as the challenge suggests.

I refuse to offer even a hint or my political beliefs.  If I did, it would not change anyone's else's political beliefs. 

You can't attack me if you don't know where I stand.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Jim Svitko on March 23, 2020, 11:56:52 AM
Never thought that the panic would hit Dallas but then I forgot we have a Democrat Mayor.  We go on lockdown at midnight tonight.  Everything will be shut down except utility bills and taxes. 

Ken

Fort Worth and Tarrant County will be next.  Although Tarrant County is still somewhat conservative, it appears to lean a little farther to the left every election cycle.  I might have to move once again before I leave this earth.

I had to go to Parker County yesterday just to get a haircut.  If I decide to take a bicycle ride around the neighborhood to keep from going crazy, should I have "my papers" with me?

What cracks me up about all this "social distancing" is that you find yourself in a crowd of people outside a Kroger or other store, waiting for it to open, so you have a chance to get a few things.  It is like Black Friday.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Gary Dowler on March 23, 2020, 01:10:14 PM
   And this attitude , Steve, is exactly why I can't go out and find a roll of toilet paper tonight, if I had real need of it. What you are displaying is the panic and hysteria that some of us are talking about. "We" all are not in a real jam. This "thing" is NOT a death sentence for EVERYONE that happens to contract it. There is no reason to be stupid and not take some precaution, but to panic and run around like Chicken Little is ridiculous. I asked the question before, is there anyone that has been directly affected by this event, and I don't think anyone has answered other than me. I got laid off for three weeks because of orders practically coming to a stop, and the owner of the company was just looking for a reason to lay people off, but told us they were 'giving you the opportunity to self quarantine at home and avoid further transmission." even in a high population density area like New York, you might go a long way before you find some one that has been directly affected. But millions and millions of peoples lives have been affected due to the markets crashing, and some people's futures ruined because of this panic. And there is no reason for it. Even with some people's concerns about flying and traveling on cruise ships have been over blown. Yes, some people have contracted the virus, but again, compared to what? People get sick on cruise ships and die every year, and is the main reason I won't ever go on one. But that happens under "normal circumstances."  It would be interesting to see a comparison of deaths  per year on cruise ships against what has happened recently with the virus. As of just a few minutes ago, the death total WORLD WIDE is still far below what the total deaths from the flu have been in THIS COUNTRY for the last year. Not even half, and flu season isn't over yet for a while. Yes, this is a serious situation, but it has also has shown me who I would want to have around me in an emergency or if I was stranded on a deserted island and who I would NOT want around. Isn't there a saying that goes something like, "Blessed are those that can keep their heads while those all around are loosing theirs!"
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
 

Well said, Dan.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: katana on March 23, 2020, 02:43:58 PM
So there were 34,200 flu deaths and 38,800 traffic deaths. Makes you wonder why more resources aren't directed to traffic safety and prevention and treatment of the flu.

And from latest data from 2017 there were just shy of 40,000 gun related, primary cause, deaths - there is a solution but stubbornly refused by voters / statute? Most people don't necessarily have control whether they catch flu, most people most certainly have control of, and safety whilst, driving and literally millions of $$$ is spent promoting arms ownership with rising death rates - interesting paradox!

Max,
Several other people have already told you what a smug, pompous jerk you are so I won't bother with adding to that. Instead, since you think the Netherlands are so superior to the USA let's compare the current statistics.
In the USA as of this morning we have 39517 confirmed cases resulting in 473 deaths. So a little less than 1.2% of the cases have died. The total cases represent .012% of our population.
In the Netherlands this morning you have 4750 cases resulting in 213 deaths. That means 4.48% of the known cases died and .028% of the population is infected.
I am no mathematician, but it appears to me that your country has over twice the rate of infection and a death rate almost 4 times higher.

You would think that since your country has superior political and health systems to the USA that those numbers would be reversed. Yet another case study in the wonders of socialized medicine.

Now if you would be so kind to redo your calculation but based on land area / population density, I would not be surprised if the numbers are more comparable? China's infection rate of 81,000 against a population of 1.10 billion actually compares better than the USA figures 39,500 and 330 million. Both countries being roughly equal in area but one having nearly 4x the population you would expect their sickness rates to be 4x worse with their 'poor social / commie' health system but its maybe not the case.

And as regards picking someone to be your POTUS, I have no grounds to speculate as equally you have for picking our head of state or prime minister so we'll best leave that one for the respective voters!
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Arlan McKee on March 23, 2020, 02:53:11 PM
Now if you would be so kind to redo your calculation but based on land area / population density, I would not be surprised if the numbers are more comparable? China's infection rate of 81,000 against a population of 1.10 billion actually compares better than the USA figures 39,500 and 330 million. Both countries being roughly equal in area but one having nearly 4x the population you would expect their sickness rates to be 4x worse with their 'poor social / commie' health system but its maybe not the case.

If you think China has given anyone honest numbers for cases and deaths then I have some land around Chernobyl to sell you.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Sean McEntee on March 23, 2020, 04:15:52 PM
**sitting on the couch, munching popcorn and reading the posts**  This is getting good...

I've spent a total 68 months in far-away lands watching people do much better with much worse conditions.  This stuff is laughable, regardless of which side of the argument you're on.

Currently one reported case of COVID-19 positive test on Ft Carson, however a first-hand source places that number at 22 people with positive tests in quarantine.  Keep that in mind...

Carson is down to "mission essential"....or should I say, "readiness essential" in order to not hurt the delicate feelings of those who are non-mission essential.  Gold star sticker for them...

UAV training flights aren't "readiness essential", so I haven't been to work in 2 weeks, and with no end in sight, looks like its going to stay that way for awhile.  Taking this opportunity to completely clean out and reorganize my building area and flight boxes; the first such cleanout since I've had my own building area.  Also got a DLG of my own design built, as well as a couple CAT gliders.  More DLGs, CLGs, OTHLG, and some rubber models in the works for my "social distancing" period. Also got a half-built Skylark that will get finished this spring for no other reason than time on my hands.

Wife and daughter left me **snicker snicker**.  When school was shut down and Clara's autism therapy went to Skype/Facetime, and nothing else tying them here to the Springs, we decided it best err on the side of caution, and I sent them both up to her mothers, up in middle-of-nowhere Scottsbluff, NE.  The absence of screaming child and nagging wife is deafening. 

Few things in life have given me more joy than driving by a half-dozen empty grocery stores on the way to the Ft Carson Commissary.  While slightly less stocked than normal, nothing is sold out and there's even TP on the shelves.  This, I think, is because DoD cardholders (like me) are now shopping exclusively onpost, instead of on the economy.   DoD imposed limits pretty early on in this game:  One cart full of groceries per sponsor (not customer), purchase limits on pretty much everything, dedicated shopping hours for high-risk individuals, then active duty, then the rest of the population.  I really don't think this is necessary, seeing how as the overwhelming majority of those who shop there is....oh, whats the word I'm looking for....reasonable, but it helps.  Any of you retirees who aren't shopping onpost/base/whatever, need to.  Gas is also down to $1.80 here in some spots.  Kinda makes me sad that I don't have enough places to go to cash in on it.

That's the report from here.  Negative impacts have been few.  The only one so far was I wasn't able to attend a FF contest yesterday in Denver which was outside the 30-mile restriction placed on all servicemembers for the time being.  Not a huge deal. So I'm pretty lucky after all is said and done.  Perhaps, this is why I'm one of few that can objectively look at this whole thing for what it is: a bunch of garbage and panic.

One last note:  One of the last CDC reports that I read are now tracking COVID-19 cases by gender.  It's funny...there's only two.  Perhaps the other 32 genders are immune?  Making a sex-change consultation appointment this afternoon.

Cheers and stay well!
Sean McEntee

Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: johnt4051 on March 23, 2020, 04:40:29 PM
last I heard the death rate here is right at 2 percent of those that get it. That is the same as the flu. We are all going to suffer the economic effect of the panic.

The death rate from the flu over a 10-year average is about 0.1%. Current estimates of the death rate for COVID-19 are about 2.3%.  That suggests that the COVID is 23 times more lethal than the flu.

This is one article on the topic.

https://khn.org/news/fact-check-coronavirus-homeland-security-chief-flu-mortality-rate/
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Robert Zambelli on March 23, 2020, 05:52:39 PM
Floyd: Please note that my challenge was to "TRUMP HATERS".
I did not think you fell into that category.
But, if you do, then my challenge stands.
If I offended you, I apologize.
Bob Z.

A better president?

I'm not going to answer.  That doesn't make me ignorant, as the challenge suggests.

I refuse to offer even a hint or my political beliefs.  If I did, it would not change anyone's else's political beliefs. 

You can't attack me if you don't know where I stand.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Jim Roselle on March 23, 2020, 06:03:20 PM
Sorry for the lateness in responding to my own thread but nobody to blame but myself.
I had no idea what an interesting assortment of replies it would generate! Furthermore, I’m pleased to say that most of the responses were informative, polite, to the point and showed a true sense of patriotism.
I learned a lot from you and I thank you for the kinds comments!!

Of course, a few of the responses were cruel, mean, ignorant and totally uncalled-for.

So, there are a few Trump haters out there.
Here’s my challenge: Who do you think would make a better President than Trump?
Let’s hear your answers.


If you don’t answer, I will take your silence as a true sign of ignorance as you haven’t a clue what’s going on in the world. You just enjoy hiding behind your keyboard, bitching, complaining and hurling insults at one of the best presidents in history.

The only thing you accomplish is making complete fools of yourselves.
You don’t like the way our country is being run? THEN LEAVE.

And you foreigners who insult and complain about Trump? Simple solution: STAY IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY. Enjoy your pathetic royal weddings, liberal and sickening excuses for leaders and complete lack of knowledge of our wonderful country. Your opinions and insults ARE NOT WELCOME, at least not by me.

Bob Z.

I would say someone who didn’t avoid military service by getting a note from from one of his daddy’s tenants.
Someone that hasn’t cheated on all three of his wives.
Someone who hasn’t paid off a pornstar so she wouldn’t spill the beans about the affair he had with her while his wife was home with their infant child.
Someone who hasn’t bragged about his ability to sexually assault women with impunity.
Someone who hasn’t had multiple credible charges of sexual assault leveled against them.
Someone who hasn’t called not getting a sexually transmitted disease in the 80’s his “own personal Vietnam”
Someone who hasn’t referred to his own daughter as “a piece of ass”.

I suppose that would be a good start.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Jim Roselle on March 23, 2020, 06:22:13 PM
Almost forgot,

Someone who doesn’t think nazis are “very fine people”
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Bernard Suhamski on March 23, 2020, 06:24:37 PM
Well here is my 2 cents worth..... HOW THE HELL DID A MODEL AIRPLANE SITE ( FORUM ) BECOME THIS POLITICAL GARBAGE?????? ON THAT NOTE " ANYONE BUILD ANYTHING INTERESTING OVER THE WINTER " ???????
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Arlan McKee on March 23, 2020, 06:33:02 PM
no
Well here is my 2 cents worth..... HOW THE HELL DID A MODEL AIRPLANE SITE ( FORUM ) BECOME THIS POLITICAL GARBAGE?????? ON THAT NOTE " ANYONE BUILD ANYTHING INTERESTING OVER THE WINTER " ???????

Because Model Airplane people like to talk some politics with other Model Airplane people.
You saw the title of the thread and opened it anyway. You saw the title of the thread and you posted a comment on it anyway.
Robert has already said if you don't like the subject, change the channel.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Arlan McKee on March 23, 2020, 06:37:38 PM
Almost forgot,

Someone who doesn’t think nazis are “very fine people”

This is a lie. You are either being intellectually dishonest or you don't have a grasp of the English language. Your previous post about sexual assault is dishonest for the same reason. You have let your TDS get the best of you.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Sean McEntee on March 23, 2020, 06:46:48 PM
I would say someone who didn’t avoid military service by getting a note from from one of his daddy’s tenants.
Someone that hasn’t cheated on all three of his wives.
Someone who hasn’t paid off a pornstar so she wouldn’t spill the beans about the affair he had with her while his wife was home with their infant child.
Someone who hasn’t bragged about his ability to sexually assault women with impunity.
Someone who hasn’t had multiple credible charges of sexual assault leveled against them.
Someone who hasn’t called not getting a sexually transmitted disease in the 80’s his “own personal Vietnam”
Someone who hasn’t referred to his own daughter as “a piece of ass”.

I suppose that would be a good start.

Do you demand the same things from your doctor/dentist/barber/car mechanic/bank teller, or do you not care about those things, as long as they do their job well?

Asking for a friend...
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Jim Roselle on March 23, 2020, 06:48:14 PM
Yes actually, I do.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 23, 2020, 06:50:28 PM
The death rate from the flu over a 10-year average is about 0.1%. Current estimates of the death rate for COVID-19 are about 2.3%.  That suggests that the COVID is 23 times more lethal than the flu.

This is one article on the topic.

https://khn.org/news/fact-check-coronavirus-homeland-security-chief-flu-mortality-rate/

No big deal John, but I think any estimates at this point are somewhat misleading.  We have no idea really how many people have been infected and didn't even see or call a doctor.  I suspect estimates at this point are somewhat like estimating the class average on a test of 100 questions by grading the first 3 questions and extrapolating.  We have lots of history with seasonal flu, numbers that should be pretty accurate.

I heard earlier today China now pegs the death rate at 0.9% but suspect we'll never have honest numbers from them.

Time will tell.


Dennis
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Jim Roselle on March 23, 2020, 06:53:51 PM
This is a lie. You are either being intellectually dishonest or you don't have a grasp of the English language. Your previous post about sexual assault is dishonest for the same reason. You have let your TDS get the best of you.

You can debate semantics on the Nazi question.

Grabbing someone by the genitals is indeed sexual assault. Would you want it done to your mother? Probably not.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 23, 2020, 06:56:11 PM
Yes actually, I do.

Way to go, Jim!  What branch of service was your bank teller in?

 LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Arlan McKee on March 23, 2020, 07:03:20 PM
You can debate semantics on the Nazi question.

Grabbing someone by the genitals is indeed sexual assault. Would you want it done to your mother? Probably not.
I believe that the actual quote is "they let you do it."
The word 'Let' implies willingness to participate. As someone that came of age in the 1980''s I also served in the same theater of "war". If you didn't my guess is you were too ugly or didn't talk a very good game.
I have never assaulted a woman in my life but I never asked permission before I attempted to make a pass at one.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan Berry on March 23, 2020, 07:09:53 PM
You can debate semantics on the Nazi question.

Grabbing someone by the genitals is indeed sexual assault. Would you want it done to your mother? Probably not.

What are you yapping about?
Someone making a crude remark or someone assaulting a woman?
I ask because I know which POTUS assaulted women and which one made a crude remark.
Has your barber ever stepped out on his wife?
Do you still think you can win the 2016 election?
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Arlan McKee on March 23, 2020, 07:20:29 PM
Yes actually, I do.

When Jesus said, " Let he that is without sin cast the first stone", Jim stepped up and grabbed the first rock he could find.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 23, 2020, 08:33:06 PM
When Jesus said, " Let he that is without sin cast the first stone", Jim stepped up and grabbed the first rock he could find.
Actually I think he is a Troll.

ken
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Chris McMillin on March 24, 2020, 01:02:30 AM
One thing I noticed is that this thread has brought out a lot of comments from people that do not post very much and some that I have never heard of before (and Bob lets this type have handles instead of using their actual names which he insisted on when I joined I guess because he had known me for decades).
Then Jim comes back from the dead with a vengeance!
A very funny time indeed.
Chris...
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Sean McEntee on March 24, 2020, 06:12:49 AM
One thing I noticed is that this thread has brought out a lot of comments from people that do not post very much and some that I have never heard of before (and Bob lets this type have handles instead of using their actual names which he insisted on when I joined I guess because he had known me for decades).
Then Jim comes back from the dead with a vengeance!
A very funny time indeed.
Chris...

People become brave when there is no threat of getting punched in the face...
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Fredvon4 on March 24, 2020, 08:23:36 AM
and that right there is what give some irrational anti Trumpers cover....and Floyd...I don't care if I tick you off...your own anti Trump stance is legion in these type threads....so please enlighten us on how much better Hillary would have been....
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: katana on March 24, 2020, 10:21:50 AM
If you think China has given anyone honest numbers for cases and deaths then I have some land around Chernobyl to sell you.

The figures quoted were WHO (World Health Organisation) figures and your own, so. . . . . . . .
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Arlan McKee on March 24, 2020, 10:41:31 AM
The figures quoted were WHO (World Health Organisation) figures and your own, so. . . . . . . .
The WHO took China's word for those figures and apparently you do too. So......
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Jim Roselle on March 24, 2020, 01:18:08 PM
People become brave when there is no threat of getting punched in the face...

Threatening physical violence when you lack the ability to formulate a counter argument. Classic trumpism.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Robert Zambelli on March 24, 2020, 01:36:33 PM
Glad you defined it.
Care to elaborate a bit more?
I'm sure all the fine people here will be grateful.


Classic trumpism.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan Berry on March 24, 2020, 01:43:47 PM
Threatening physical violence when you lack the ability to formulate a counter argument. Classic trumpism.
Tell us again where the hate, intolerance and violence is coming from. Go ahead, looking forward to another round from you.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 24, 2020, 02:39:36 PM
Tell us again where the hate, intolerance and violence is coming from. Go ahead, looking forward to another round from you.
y1 y1 y1 y1
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 24, 2020, 03:22:04 PM
Things looking good. Some people talking sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Mike Griffin on March 24, 2020, 07:57:13 PM
I would say someone who didn’t avoid military service by getting a note from from one of his daddy’s tenants.
Someone that hasn’t cheated on all three of his wives.
Someone who hasn’t paid off a pornstar so she wouldn’t spill the beans about the affair he had with her while his wife was home with their infant child.
Someone who hasn’t bragged about his ability to sexually assault women with impunity.
Someone who hasn’t had multiple credible charges of sexual assault leveled against them.
Someone who hasn’t called not getting a sexually transmitted disease in the 80’s his “own personal Vietnam”
Someone who hasn’t referred to his own daughter as “a piece of ass”.

I suppose that would be a good start.

Why Jimmy boy, you must be thinking of Bill Clinton.  I think Jimbo may be a troll.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 24, 2020, 08:44:58 PM
First of all, I believe Jim Roselle is a troll as his information is not accessible as is every other participant in this thread.

Second, his laundry list of alleged transgressions is a pretty good summary of Bill Clinton's life. But, I want him to keep writing. His missives are good for comic relief.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: john e. holliday on March 24, 2020, 09:25:46 PM
Well I'm convinced that the democrats and the media are doing their last ditch effort to destroy President Trump and the economy.  How many lived through the past virous alarms that never really were reported by the media?   How many lived through the period of the measles  out break.   How many have checked on the number of people that have died from the flu in the past and they are still dieing.   Look at how many people have died in car wrecks since this virous scare was put out by the media.   I remember when we were told if you are sick stay home.  No closing of businesses, jobs and closing of schools.   I was sent a letter of a man that lived through WW II.   I remember the stamps Mother and Dad had that let them get a certain quantity items.   There was gas rationing also.  As he stated more soldiers died in one day than what this virous has killed since they started this scare.  We did with out and when could see a qaurentene sign on a house during the measles crisis.

I think it should be up to us to stay home if we are sick and let the healthy ones keep working.  But I guess the democrats are well on their way to creating a socialist country. R%%%%
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 24, 2020, 09:42:11 PM
Doc,

Don't lose your optimism.  We will get through this latest craziness. I don't believe the President will let the opposition succeed.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: katana on March 25, 2020, 03:11:10 AM
I think it should be up to us to stay home if we are sick and let the healthy ones keep working.  But I guess the democrats are well on their way to creating a socialist country. R%%%%

FFS! Hey almost a doctor - How do you know you or they are healthy? Its generally accepted a person is infectious for 3-4 days before symptoms show (same with normal flu). That is the whole point of not mixing with people, keeping your distance etc - 'healthy' sick people will get better and with an immunity, vulnerable sick people will need treatment and hopefully will recover but if not will be contained away from the wider population and eventually without new hosts the virus can't spread and will phase out. The whole world is practicing the same general principles - are they all Democrats?
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 25, 2020, 07:09:32 AM
FFS! Hey almost a doctor - How do you know you or they are healthy? Its generally accepted a person is infectious for 3-4 days before symptoms show (same with normal flu). That is the whole point of not mixing with people, keeping your distance etc - 'healthy' sick people will get better and with an immunity, vulnerable sick people will need treatment and hopefully will recover but if not will be contained away from the wider population and eventually without new hosts the virus can't spread and will phase out. The whole world is practicing the same general principles - are they all Democrats?
Where was the part of Doc's comment that said we should not practice "social distancing"?

Ken
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan McEntee on March 25, 2020, 08:22:40 AM
  Another thing I find disturbing are the number of state and city leaders who are literally screaming at press conferences for the feds to come and save their asses. A big state like New York, and city such as new York City, should have some sort of plan in place and resources to use. it's obvious that they have no leadership. There is a lot of money in New York state, because that is where Bill and Hillary decide to move to, to be near the money. I heard some one from there actually screaming about being given 400 ventilators this morning. 'What am I supposed to do with those?"he screamed, basically complaining that he didn't get 40,000, even though there is no immediate need for that many. If he is that stupid to act like that on camera, he needs to be replaced. Screaming and yelling into a camera and microphone that "Millions are going to die if we don't get what we want." is NOT the smartest thing to do. Like Gene Krantz said during a time of crisis, "Work the problem people!" We need more people like him in charge.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 25, 2020, 08:29:37 AM
You know, my uncle was a great person. He was at MIT. He taught at MIT for, I think, like a record number of years. He was a great supergenius. Dr. John Trump,” Trump said. “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it. Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: john e. holliday on March 25, 2020, 10:28:03 AM
Well it seems a few people are waking up as they are going to try and start people back to work.  from what I've read if you are sick, stay home.  If the employer fires you for being sick he is a cause of the spreading of illnesses.  Same with schools.  Healthy people can be cured.  But with out a motive to stay healthy and work we are doomed. R%%%%
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 26, 2020, 07:31:26 PM
Do Not Treat Me List

Perhaps this idea has not occurred to the courageous conservatives among us.

Please inform your loved ones and legal representatives that you do no want to be treated for coronavirus infection under any circumstances. You prefer that the USA economy look good.

We are now number 1 in the world. Great work.


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan McEntee on March 26, 2020, 08:03:38 PM
  Well, take a poll of the states that are really struggling with this. Probably all have democrat governors.  That's who should be leading the charge in each state instead of crying to the Feds from the very beginning. Tons more should have been done at the state and local levels, that is their responsibility. I just hope that they stripped out all the crap that didn't have anything to do with the crisis that Pelosi and Shummer were trying to tack on to these emergency funding bills. Time will tell on that, and they should have to answer for any ramifications of their actions. Trump isn't the only one trying to get re-elected in November. The people should remember this.
    We now have the most confirmed cases, bur well behind the curve on deaths. That is good work. You forgot to mention that
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan Berry on March 26, 2020, 08:07:02 PM
Do Not Treat Me List

Perhaps this idea has not occurred to the courageous conservatives among us.

Please inform your loved ones and legal representatives that you do no want to be treated for coronavirus infection under any circumstances. You prefer that the USA economy look good.

We are now number 1 in the world. Great work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please post something asinine and stupid.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 26, 2020, 08:32:45 PM
Please post something asinine and stupid.


You didn't expect anything logical, significant or non-political from Moritz, did you!?!

The great intellectual writes plays that consider the sexual attractiveness of furniture, for crying out loud ...  Deep, meaningful questions of life us mere mortals wouldn't think of.


Dennis


Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve Scott on March 26, 2020, 09:53:49 PM
  Well, take a poll of the states that are really struggling with this. Probably all have democrat governors.  That's who should be leading the charge in each state instead of crying to the Feds from the very beginning. Tons more should have been done at the state and local levels, that is their responsibility. I just hope that they stripped out all the crap that didn't have anything to do with the crisis that Pelosi and Shummer were trying to tack on to these emergency funding bills. Time will tell on that, and they should have to answer for any ramifications of their actions. Trump isn't the only one trying to get re-elected in November. The people should remember this.
    We now have the most confirmed cases, bur well behind the curve on deaths. That is good work. You forgot to mention that
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
As of Friday night the state of MN goes on a mandatory Stay at Home order.   We have less than 400 confirmed cases, 2 deaths and some of the best medical facilities and medical tech companies on the planet but everyone realizes if you don't take aggressive preemptive measures, you'll quickly overwhelm the ability for critical care for those needing it.

Our governor is democrat, a 24 year member of the National Guard and the highest enlisted ranking member (CSM) to have served in Congress.  His background is a high school teacher and football coach.

He is attracting considerable attention nation-wide because of his extraordinary leadership skills during this crisis.  He knows better than to start a partisan argument.

I wish the rest of you would do that, too.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan Berry on March 26, 2020, 09:59:39 PM

You didn't expect anything logical, significant or non-political from Moritz, did you!?!

The great intellectual writes plays that consider the sexual attractiveness of furniture, for crying out loud ...  Deep, meaningful questions of life us mere mortals wouldn't think of.


Dennis
I did not. It’s actually minor league TDS.  Until he blames Trump for his debit card getting hacked he isn’t serious about his TDS.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve Helmick on March 27, 2020, 12:34:06 AM
You know, my uncle was a great person. He was at MIT. He taught at MIT for, I think, like a record number of years. He was a great supergenius. Dr. John Trump,” Trump said. “I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it. Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What topic did your uncle teach at MIT?  ??? Steve
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve Helmick on March 27, 2020, 12:52:26 AM
Do Not Treat Me List

Perhaps this idea has not occurred to the courageous conservatives among us.

Please inform your loved ones and legal representatives that you do no want to be treated for coronavirus infection under any circumstances. You prefer that the USA economy look good.

We are now number 1 in the world. Great work.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did you consider that we're number 1 in the world for CV-19 simply because we've devised test kits, improved test kits, built more test kits, and devised more efficient ways to use the test kits? Hell no, you'd never look at it in any way that wasn't political. It's not a political problem, but Democrats are trying to make it into one. Meanwhile, they do their bumbling best to make themselves look like the geniuses they ARE NOT.    R%%%% Steve

Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 27, 2020, 01:18:06 AM
As of Friday night the state of MN goes on a mandatory Stay at Home order.   We have less than 400 confirmed cases, 2 deaths and some of the best medical facilities and medical tech companies on the planet but everyone realizes if you don't take aggressive preemptive measures, you'll quickly overwhelm the ability for critical care for those needing it.

Our governor is democrat, a 24 year member of the National Guard and the highest enlisted ranking member (CSM) to have served in Congress.  His background is a high school teacher and football coach.

He is attracting considerable attention nation-wide because of his extraordinary leadership skills during this crisis.  He knows better than to start a partisan argument.

I wish the rest of you would do that, too.

Good grief Steve, you need someone to proof-read for you ... you don't want to get partisan?

Even liberal media are writing stories about the Tim that campaigned vs the Tim now governing.  You obviously support the party that here in Minnesota wanted to (1) raise taxes, and then (2) decide what to do with the additional revenue?  Remind us, what is our state surplus at?  Even without the what, 70% increase in gas tax he proposed?


Dennis
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 27, 2020, 02:50:17 AM
Yes. Yes. Do Not Treat Me List. I thought I was repeating the advice of the paid for conservative propaganda machines. Advice for you and yours, not them and theirs. Let's see. Within nine days, the current time span of this thread, we have gone from this is a hoax to hey, we're number one in infections world wide. Guess you didn't notice that General Bone Spur is free and easy with the truth. In fact, never is about the truth, always about propaganda. Lied about number of tests available, ventilators available, prospectus for a vaccine, number of people infected, mortality of the disease, you name it. Called the pandemic a hoax. Four hundred cases? It only takes a few. This is the most infectious disease yet. Keep on barking, trained seals who sound like dogs.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: John Lindberg on March 27, 2020, 12:26:09 PM
Trump in 2020! All the way! He took out two dynasties, the Bush gang, and the totally corrupt Hillary! Yeah!  #^ #^ #^ #^
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Trostle on March 27, 2020, 05:17:51 PM

 Called the pandemic a hoax.


Dennis,

You claim that President Trump called this pandemic a hoax.  Please enlighten us when and where he made this claim.  Just because it may have been reported on maybe CNN and/or MSNBC certainly does not make it so.

Keith
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 27, 2020, 06:11:30 PM
Dennis,

You claim that President Trump called this pandemic a hoax.  Please enlighten us when and where he made this claim.  Just because it may have been reported on maybe CNN and/or MSNBC certainly does not make it so.

Keithg

Keith, this has been a discredited statement/meme by the mainstream media and the Democrats to discredit the President. The only way that Mr. moritz and his ilk can say anything about this alleged hoax accusation is to lie about it. Which Mr. moritz will do if he mistakenly replies to your question.

What really puts a lie to Mr. moritz's accusation is the fact that the President locked China out of the US on January 31 to keep the Chinese/Wuhan virus out as long as possible. And this was during the Democrat attempt to impeach the President. And he was immediately branded a xenophobic racist by the mainstream media and the Democrat party. So obviously he never said the Chinese wuhan virus was a hoax. And no one here did either.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Leonhardi on March 27, 2020, 07:04:37 PM
Yes. Yes. Do Not Treat Me List. I thought I was repeating the advice of the paid for conservative propaganda machines. Advice for you and yours, not them and theirs. Let's see. Within nine days, the current time span of this thread, we have gone from this is a hoax to hey, we're number one in infections world wide. Guess you didn't notice that General Bone Spur is free and easy with the truth. In fact, never is about the truth, always about propaganda. Lied about number of tests available, ventilators available, prospectus for a vaccine, number of people infected, mortality of the disease, you name it. Called the pandemic a hoax. Four hundred cases? It only takes a few. This is the most infectious disease yet. Keep on barking, trained seals who sound like dogs.


Moritz, one day you may realize honest discourse begins by treating with respect those who might disagree with you - but Today is obviously not that day!

If you could simply come out of the ivory tower for a moment - and put aside your lust for that chair - you might progress to the 3rd grade level ...


Dennis
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Arlan McKee on March 27, 2020, 07:49:12 PM
Anyone who believes the numbers that China has posted is a FOOL.
Period.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Steve Helmick on March 27, 2020, 08:09:05 PM
Not to mention North Korea. They've reported ZERO cases, but most likely something was lost in the translation, and they meant that ZERO cases survived due to lead poisoning. The fact remains that if there is no testing for COVID19, there will be ZERO confirmed cases and ZERO confirmed fatalities. If we have cranked out enough test kits and test enough people suspected to have it, we WILL find more than anyplace else.

Meanwhile, watch where you cough and sneeze! DO NOT do it in public, lest you get glared at by the masses of dumbasses. It's allergy season here.  y1 Steve
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Arlan McKee on March 27, 2020, 08:28:10 PM
The greenish/yellow pollen started falling in Western Tennessee last weekend. Lots of people sneezing and a lot of awkward looks.
I work for an Agricultural and Environmental laboratory.  I began putting equipment together today to start producing hand sanitizer next week. We have only been a testing laboratory for the last 44 years. Now we are going to package a product for distribution.
Strange times we are living in.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: John Lindberg on March 28, 2020, 07:03:24 AM
Not to mention North Korea. They've reported ZERO cases, but most likely something was lost in the translation, and they meant that ZERO cases survived due to lead poisoning. The fact remains that if there is no testing for COVID19, there will be ZERO confirmed cases and ZERO confirmed fatalities. If we have cranked out enough test kits and test enough people suspected to have it, we WILL find more than anyplace else.

Meanwhile, watch where you cough and sneeze! DO NOT do it in public, lest you get glared at by the masses of dumbasses. It's allergy season here.  y1 Steve
Don't forget, Iran does not have ANY homosexuals! Remember that one?
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 28, 2020, 08:13:51 AM
Don't forget, Iran does not have ANY homosexuals! Remember that one?

Iran gives their homosexuals three choices:

1. Surgical transition to the opposite sex.
2. Psychological conversion therapy.
3. Execution.

Don't believe me, look it up.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 28, 2020, 08:34:27 AM
What really puts a lie to Mr. moritz's accusation is the fact that the President locked China out of the US on January 31 to keep the Chinese/Wuhan virus out as long as possible. And this was during the Democrat attempt to impeach the President. And he was immediately branded a xenophobic racist by the mainstream media and the Democrat party.

     Yes, they had something more important on their, er, "minds", for lack of a better word - that was the day he was exonerated from their impeachment!  Obviously they thought that was the priority, not dealing with a medical emergency.

   To be fair, one of the charges was the dastardly and traitorous "Obstruction of Congress" - which is not only not a crime, not traitorous, not dastardly, but (had they bothered to read and understand the Constitution) *is the president's job description!*   The Founders *intended* the three branches of government to be in almost constant conflict and trying to obstruct each other's agendas - because if they were, the only laws that would be passed were those that had wide general acclaim. "Gridlock" was the goal, they expected them to be at each other's throats most of the time, in order to limit the activities of government. It was designed to be confrontational.

    The notion that the government is meant to conduct itself with quiet dignity and intellectual detachment like an Ivy league debating society or gentlemen's club is utterly ludicrous. It's *supposed to be a continual series of arguments*, to *protect the citizens from endless meddling by the government*. If they are fighting with each other, they aren't figuring out ways to create a ruling class. Trump is a deeply flawed individual, but he sees and reflects exactly the sort of thing they were talking about. He even found a catchy name for it - The Swamp. 

     Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 28, 2020, 09:10:01 AM
What happened? You courageous conservatives. Go back to work. Rip off the 95 mask. Sign. I DO NOT WANT TO BE TREATED LIST. Just because I proposed this a day before the orange inflatable's appeal that amounts to the same thing. Hey. I was a day ahead. Thank me.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan Berry on March 28, 2020, 09:38:11 AM

You didn't expect anything logical, significant or non-political from Moritz, did you!?!




Dennis

And he never disappoints.
He is still minor league(double A at best) with his TDS but he does try hard.

Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Robert Zambelli on March 28, 2020, 10:04:47 AM
WOW!!!
This thread has gotten totally out-of-hand but I'm pleased to say that it has opened up some really good dialog.
Very good and thoughtful replies from most of the conservatives and the expected useless DRIVEL from the left/liberal/democrats who have absolutely nothing of value to contribute.
Seems like they're composed mostly of Trump hating miscreants who will try and find anything to denigrate our great leader.
Some from the USA, others from foreign countries (totally useless individuals) all having a common goal: destroy Trump!
I suspect that those from the USA supported/voted for obama and clinton, (yeah, I know at least one of you voted for clinton - care to explain why?) two of the worst, most pathetic excuses for politicians in history.
Notice how when they are asked who could do a better job of running the country, not one of them can supply a name!
dr moritz - how about some complete sentences so we can understand your rants.? And, by the way, what is an orange inflatable?
What shape do you think this country would be in if your gal hilary had won? You know, the queen of stupid statements!
And I seriously doubt that anyone on this thread will "thank you", even though you continue to prove, without a shadow of doubt that liberalism is indeed a mental disorder.

Bob Z.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan Berry on March 28, 2020, 10:32:05 AM



- how about some complete sentences so we can understand your rants.? And, by the way, what is an orange inflatable?

Bob Z.

This is a technique they use when they are out of thoughts in an attempt to be witty by half.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Arlan McKee on March 28, 2020, 11:04:00 AM
This is a technique they use when they are out of thoughts in an attempt to be witty by half.
With Moritz it''s just more word salad. Perhaps it's an omage to Joe Biden's disastrous week of interviews. Birds of a feather........
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Norm Faith Jr. on March 28, 2020, 11:41:16 AM
This is a technique they use when they are out of thoughts in an attempt to be witty by half.

Hey Dan! There for a moment I thought...How the hell did William Ellis Williams get on stunt hangar? I guess there is "one in every crowd."  S?P  ;D
Norm
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan Berry on March 28, 2020, 11:44:50 AM
Hey Dan! There for a moment I thought...How the hell did William Ellis Williams get on stunt hangar? I guess there is "one in every crowd."  S?P  ;D
Norm

Well, they all use the same lame playbook based on OMB.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Norm Faith Jr. on March 28, 2020, 11:50:24 AM
Well, they all use the same lame playbook based on OMB.

Sorta like flies on a warm turd?  ;D
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Avaiojet on March 28, 2020, 01:28:41 PM
Seeing this is politics, I'd thought I'd tell my Donald Trump story.

It's a true story. Believe it or not.

Wife and I plus a few other friends were attending an event in Palm Beach. A hoity toity event for charity. No don't get nervous, wife and I are broke, always have been, feel better? LL~

Anyway we were there because we were accompanying a couple who invited us. The couple was involved with the charity and my wife got to know them because my wife did volunteer work in Palm Beach for the charity organizers when they had their sales.

Like a local "cake sale," except it's all high end stuff that wealthy people donate. Like jewelry everyone has see, diamonds, bracelets, family heirlooms, high end designer clothing stuff like that. Stuff most people don't need or can afford. My wife did this because they allowed volunteers first dibs on the treasures. Smart!

Anyway again. Yea, plenty of interesting people all gathered enjoying themselves and having a wealthy time. I was sick, wishing I still had my Breitling Navitimer and short cuffs.

Well, low an behold, and I know you knew I was getting to this sooner or later, guess who was there? C'mon, take a wild guess? Yes! Donald J. Trump. And guess who else? Rush Limbaugh.

Wife and I were at a Palm Beach Christmas event some time after this and I actually shook hands with Rush Limbaugh. Rush, like I know him well, Rush donated the Christmas tree. Not sure if he donated the lighting and ornaments, but the tree he did. And what a tree! Front Row tree.

OK, back to Donald Trump. Are you ready?

I've learned early on in life to keep my distance from celebrities, Yea I've been around a few and I know one in particular who is an actor.

Actors, not many but some have a bit to offer. You can learn from them. They don't like it when they attend events and "the public" swarms all over them. You can imagine this, well, maybe not.

Anyway anyway, Donald J Trump, Rush Limbaugh and I are at this charity event. Yes, they were politely swarmed, politely. Not tons of people around them but on and off, but never really alone or given space. Everyone deserves space.

So, being the wise guy I am, I decided not go up to either one of them. Who would think of not going up to Donald J. Trump or Rush Limbaugh when given the opportunity.

I didn't see Rush, there I go again, I mean Mr. Limbaugh leave, but he had. The evening was slowing down. So I'm thinking, do I, do I not, approach Donald, oops, Mr. Trump?

I decided to. ARE YOU READY!! ARE YOU REALLY READY!!!

As I walking towards Donald, as he noticed I was going to approach him, he started walking towards me. His hand extended, I will never forget what he said to me.

"So, you think you're the third smartest person in the room?"

Can you believe that!! And there's more to the story because now, I had Donald all to myself.

He's an amazing individual.

Believe this story or not.










Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan Berry on March 28, 2020, 02:59:55 PM
Well, I talked to a lot of people overhere in Europe, and we think that can be a solution, the more trumpies do a
'Surgical transition to the opposite sex', the better, most are old anyway, so not much more nagging in total.
Kind regards;

Max
See post93 again
.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Chris McMillin on March 28, 2020, 03:36:25 PM
So you joined here to post about a foreign country's politics instead of Stunt models, Max? You have 26 fuckin' posts, dude.
Chris...
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: john e. holliday on March 28, 2020, 05:33:06 PM
Well I said something about this on another thread and I will repeat it here.  How many remember the virous that killed opver a million people back in 1957 according WHO(World Health Organization)?  S?P 
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Robert Zambelli on March 28, 2020, 06:34:06 PM
My responses:
1) I don’t know what you’re tired of but I’m pretty sure that nobody on this site gives a rat’s ass.
2) Mike is acting quite normal. You on the other hand should look in a mirror and possibly reevaluate your definition of normal.
3) What on earth does an extra gun enter into the subject? I, by the way, have many.

Mike;

We are also tired of this crap.
Please stop and act normal.
New extra gun today?
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tony Drago on March 28, 2020, 07:23:36 PM
Well I said something about this on another thread and I will repeat it here.  How many remember the virous that killed opver a million people back in 1957 according WHO(World Health Organization)?  S?P
/quote]
  Remember it well. We were living in Brooklyn N.Y. at the time.
The pandemic is estimated to have killed one million people, according to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). - 1957: Asian flu - The first cases of this variant of the flu, also a type A, were identified in February 1957 in China's southwestern province of Guizhou.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 28, 2020, 09:31:37 PM
So you joined here to post about a foreign country's politics instead of Stunt models, Max? You have 26 fuckin' posts, dude.
Chris...

   In fact, it's almost like he came here entirely to make idiotic political comments. It's like Moritz and Peabody, you can safely ignore anything they have to say on any topic.

     Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 28, 2020, 09:36:41 PM
Over here in England, the govt. seems to be doing all the right things, introducing measures at the appropriate time etc., but the news media are letting us down!  There's too much 'shock, horror!' journalism, and the prevailing mood (which they're trying to pass on to the general public) is: "PANIC! PANIC! We're all gonna die!  AAAAAGH!!!". 

   Virus Porn. We have it, in fact, almost nothing but that, here.

     Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Andre Ming on March 28, 2020, 09:52:20 PM

https://www.conservativereview.com/news/horowitz-coronavirus-begin-us-matters/?fbclid=IwAR3cmFF37P-Ldtsn4fjwHXZPijxd5JwDWjHuy_wLT1IHsyGKPY1VkeKJeD4

Andre
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan Berry on March 28, 2020, 10:27:19 PM
and we think
';



Don't do that.
It only hurts your team.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Avaiojet on March 29, 2020, 09:27:39 AM
https://www.conservativereview.com/news/horowitz-coronavirus-begin-us-matters/?fbclid=IwAR3cmFF37P-Ldtsn4fjwHXZPijxd5JwDWjHuy_wLT1IHsyGKPY1VkeKJeD4

Andre

Andre,

I've read a good deal from the author of that piece, I'm not all that confident as to what he's all about. He is not an investigative reporter.

I believe this piece is worth the time invested in reading.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/how-china-the-who-the-cdc-and-the-mainstream-media-worked-together-to-create-the-greatest-pandemic-hysteria-in-world-history/
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 29, 2020, 10:44:28 AM
Must be a hoax.


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 29, 2020, 11:27:16 AM
Damn arrogant Europeans, when they get sick they don’t go bankrupt.


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 29, 2020, 11:28:26 AM
Suddenly Bernie’s price tag sounds doable. Oh. Guess it was doable before the hoax.


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Trostle on March 29, 2020, 12:29:57 PM

Guess it was doable before the hoax.


You still have not answered the question about your source where you claim that President Trump called this carona virus thing a hoax.  See Post #222 on March 27.

Your silence speaks volumes.

Keith
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Andre Ming on March 29, 2020, 04:38:32 PM
Thanks for the link Aviojet.

Food for thought.

One thing I will say is that I am having difficulty harmonizing some of these types of essays with what is supposedly happening in NYC.

Unfortunately, the entire news industry is so untrustworthy it's very difficult to know what to trust, including the reports coming out of NYC.

Andre
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Andre Ming on March 29, 2020, 08:43:00 PM
Another report of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyTTbLA3AZY

Andre
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 29, 2020, 08:51:30 PM
Damn arrogant Europeans, when they get sick they don’t go bankrupt.

   Right, when they get sick, *we* go bankrupt - because their existence depends on US economics and defense.

    Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Avaiojet on March 29, 2020, 09:36:59 PM
Thanks for the link Aviojet.

Food for thought.

One thing I will say is that I am having difficulty harmonizing some of these types of essays with what is supposedly happening in NYC.

Unfortunately, the entire news industry is so untrustworthy it's very difficult to know what to trust, including the reports coming out of NYC.

Andre

There's plenty of newspapers that make it a point to tell the truth.

Thing is, they are on line.

A suggestion, join Twitter, yea I know, but you pick and choose. At least you see bits of articles written in these papers and you can decide to visit and read the article or not.

A good thing to remember. Who's this guy or gal writing this piece? Who are they working for? And why this topic?

You have to do homework to get correct news.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/stunning-pelosi-blames-trump-for-coronavirus-after-she-pushed-tourists-to-visit-chinatown-in-late-february-weeks-after-trump-bans-china-flights/
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: katana on March 30, 2020, 02:37:01 AM
   Right, when they get sick, *we* go bankrupt - because their existence depends on US economics and defense.

    Brett

Take your head out of your arse Brett! We do not rely on US products, no more than you do on ours! As much as you want to deny it - everyone is buying Chinese because they want cheap - and cheap sells no matter how patriotic you are. And being the world largest arms dealer, where do you expect us to buy from? Russia? China? Oh sorry you mean 'Boots on the Ground', well we've spilt enough blood along with US forces to know what 'defence' entails - stop bigging yourselves up as the world's saviour - its unbecoming, arrogant and not unlike a school bully beating up the little kids for their pocket money!
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: John Park on March 30, 2020, 03:41:49 AM
Over here, as in the US, the news media seem to be full of (generally conflicting) statements from people referred to as 'experts'.  I feel moved to offer one of my favourite quotes, which dates from the late nineteenth century: "No lesson seems to be so deeply inculcated by the experience of life as that you never should trust experts: if you listen to the doctors, nothing is wholesome; if you listen to the theologians, nothing is innocent; if you listen to the soldiers, nothing is safe." (Lord Salisbury).
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 30, 2020, 06:43:57 AM
..... a school bully beating up the little kids for their pocket money!
I am not trying to defend Brett, he is more than capable of doing that himself but if your goal was to tick off just about every US body on this site, you have succeeded.  We are the ones that take out the school bully.

I think this thread has served it's usefulness and it is time to stop.

Ken
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Carl Cisneros on March 30, 2020, 07:16:18 AM
Charles County Maryland man arrested and jailed for violating the Gov, state wide order for not having gatherings of more than 10 people.
He had a big AZZ bonn fire at his place with over 60 people attending. He was ordered to disperse, refused and was arrested.
He faces 1 year in jail and a $5,000.00 fine. The attendees were told to leave and did so. This was on DC channel 5 this morning.
(think I got it right)

Interesting,,,,,,,,,,,,

Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dennis Moritz on March 30, 2020, 08:13:36 AM
Treating a world wide disaster as a PR opportunity has delayed USA response two months. How many American lives will that cost?


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Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Fredvon4 on March 30, 2020, 08:35:15 AM
29 NATO MEMBERS

UK  %GDP 2.1 OR AROUND 55~58 MILLION ANNUALLY

USA %GDP 3.6 OR AROUND 690~700 MILLION ANNUALLY

Sounds to me that Brett is correct; America has footed this bill for many decades now...and we pay dearly for every base in NATO we occupy. And all our bases directly employ mostly host nation workers....and our military and civil contractors spend their paychecks there.

I can easily say the US presence in all NATO member countries contributes greatly to those countries GDP...

It is American industrie who will make mass quantities of ventilators...(soon) and most of you European countries will get them free gratis becaus Trump asked for enough to share...

We have been Great Britain's (UK) greatest ally for a long time...for Msr Katana to spew his nose in the air bull here and pee in Bretts mess kit angers me greatly
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 30, 2020, 08:59:34 AM
Treating a world wide disaster as a PR opportunity has delayed USA response two months. How many American lives will that cost?


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Dennis I couldn’t agree more, for Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Adam Schiff, Eric Swalwell, Jerry Nadler, and other Democrats, to attempt to delay the president and his response to the coronavirus, has been and is criminal. Thankfully we have a man with gonads in the White House. And he did Not delay but took action on January 31 to lock the nation down from China where the virus came from, and the Chinese lied, and knew three weeks before what they had. And then the president locks down the European Union from the United States approximately two weeks later. Dennis, where did he delay.?  In spite of their lame attempt to delay him by their baseless impeachment he beat them at their own game.

Dennis, you’re going to have to do better than this then to give opinion without fact. I want specifics from you where the president was irresponsible. If you don’t have them then quietly go away.
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Avaiojet on March 30, 2020, 10:21:54 AM
Treating a world wide disaster as a PR opportunity has delayed USA response two months. How many American lives will that cost?


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Dennis,

What state do you live in?
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Jaco Pass on March 30, 2020, 01:05:11 PM
Dennis I couldn’t agree more, for Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Adam Schiff, Eric Swalwell, Jerry Nadler, and other Democrats, to attempt to delay the president and his response to the coronavirus, has been and is criminal. Thankfully we have a man with gonads in the White House. And he did Not delay but took action on January 31 to lock the nation down from China where the virus came from, and the Chinese lied, and knew three weeks before what they had. And then the president locks down the European Union from the United States approximately two weeks later. Dennis, where did he delay.?  In spite of their lame attempt to delay him by their baseless impeachment he beat them at their own game.

Dennis, you’re going to have to do better than this then to give opinion without fact. I want specifics from you where the president was irresponsible. If you don’t have them then quietly go away.

Hi Tom, grab a cup of coffee, a glass of beer or tea if you prefer, give this a gander and see what you think. This was written on March 15, things have changed more so.  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/opinion/trump-coronavirus.html  one reader left his comment.. ""The Trump administration could have begun to use a functioning test from the World Health Organization, but didn’t. It could have removed regulations that prevented private hospitals and labs from quickly developing their own tests, but didn’t."

Trump's failure to ramp up testing is the prime reason this virus has gotten a huge leg up on this country.  I knew everything that David lists here, but it's horrifying to reread it all strung together,

Trump gave himself away when he expressed dismay over having the cruise ship with infected passengers off California dock on American shores.  "I don't want my numbers to go up because of that ship," he selfishly proclaimed to the shock of any sentient person who instantly realized: "I could have been on that ship." 

Trump cared more about keeping cases low because of how it "looked" for him, rather than people's health.

How crass."
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 30, 2020, 01:22:39 PM
Treating a world wide disaster as a PR opportunity has delayed USA response two months. How many American lives will that cost?


   Excellent question, for once. Ask the people dancing in tje streets over the possibility of 2.2 million deaths - Pelosi, Shumer, etc. Before this happened, they were dead in the water. Now, they are floating upside down but the gills are still moving, weakly. Even the sad Alzhiemer's victom Joe Biden is still just sentient enough to see that this is unseemly, but not the "leaders" of the left.

     The 24/7 virus porn videos is the first PR exercise that the left has run that has had any impact.  You'll still lose, of course, assuming Biden manages to stay upright for another 6 months, but not as embarrassingly.

      Brett
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Tom McClain on March 30, 2020, 01:33:07 PM
Hi Tom, grab a cup of coffee, a glass of beer or tea if you prefer, give this a gander and see what you think. This was written on March 15, things have changed more so.  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/opinion/trump-coronavirus.html  one reader left his comment.. ""The Trump administration could have begun to use a functioning test from the World Health Organization, but didn’t. It could have removed regulations that prevented private hospitals and labs from quickly developing their own tests, but didn’t."


Trump's failure to ramp up testing is the prime reason this virus has gotten a huge leg up on this country.  I knew everything that David lists here, but it's horrifying to reread it all strung together,

Trump gave himself away when he expressed dismay over having the cruise ship with infected passengers off California dock on American shores.  "I don't want my numbers to go up because of that ship," he selfishly proclaimed to the shock of any sentient person who instantly realized: "I could have been on that ship." 

Trump cared more about keeping cases low because of how it "looked" for him, rather than people's health.

How crass."

Dear Jayco, do you know what’s crass? What is crass is a troll coming on this forum and not doing his research. That article from the New York Times that you referenced, has been identified by all in the United States as fake news. So I’m not gonna waste my time, answering your uninformed questions and your puny innuendos. The President of the United States in his daily press briefings has more than provided the answers to all of your uninformed questions and statements.

For example:  Testing in the US is now better and faster than any other nation in the world.  We have tested more in 8 days than South Korea did in 8 weeks and they are the second best.
Keeping the cruise ship passengers locked up on board only makes sense.  They are off now but all are in secure facilities under quarantine.
Trump when asked how many death are acceptable for a good economy said the following:  None.

So Jayco Troll, do your homework.  If I can find out the truth, aren't you capable of doing the same?
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Brett Buck on March 30, 2020, 01:33:59 PM
Take your head out of your arse Brett! We do not rely on US products, no more than you do on ours! As much as you want to deny it - everyone is buying Chinese because they want cheap - and cheap sells no matter how patriotic you are.

   I don't think (nor do I care whether) you need our products. You *do* need our money, without the US economy driving the world, and protecting the rest of you (some because they are too feckless to do it themselves, and others because they have proven incapable of responsibly maintaining a strong military presence without going off trying to kill each other, so we don't let you), you might have to make it on your own - which means most of Europe and Japan would SOL. 

   The reason you are so incensed by this is because you know it is true, and are (with some justification) embarrassed about it, and so you resent us for having to prop you up for the last 70 years. That's why you launder it various ways (like "international" finance, e. g. the IMF) - you are too embarrassed to show up on the steps of the treasury building with a tin cup.

  BTW, while I don't like having to protect a lot of foreigners at our expense (money and tragic losses), I will admit that it is in our interest to do it - because if we didn't, we would have had world wars 3, 4, and 5, all started over the same nonsense as 1 and 2. And we would have to, at even greater expense, come over and take your toys away - again.

   Brett

   
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Dan McEntee on March 30, 2020, 03:56:53 PM
Hi Tom, grab a cup of coffee, a glass of beer or tea if you prefer, give this a gander and see what you think. This was written on March 15, things have changed more so.  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/opinion/trump-coronavirus.html  one reader left his comment.. ""The Trump administration could have begun to use a functioning test from the World Health Organization, but didn’t. It could have removed regulations that prevented private hospitals and labs from quickly developing their own tests, but didn’t."

Trump's failure to ramp up testing is the prime reason this virus has gotten a huge leg up on this country.  I knew everything that David lists here, but it's horrifying to reread it all strung together,

Trump gave himself away when he expressed dismay over having the cruise ship with infected passengers off California dock on American shores.  "I don't want my numbers to go up because of that ship," he selfishly proclaimed to the shock of any sentient person who instantly realized: "I could have been on that ship." 

Trump cared more about keeping cases low because of how it "looked" for him, rather than people's health.

How crass."

     At that point in the crisis, any one with any brains wouldn't let it dock. The best place for those people was on that ship, and the best place for the country for those people to be was on that ship. They are easier to separate and monitor since they all had their own rooms and could stay isolated. As I recall, it all came out OK, and must have because you don't hear about it any more.  Some of the goofballs in charge in my area want to let all the prison inmates out "to save their lives!" I can't believe a sane person would make that remark. Just like the cruise ship, the best place for the prisoners is behind bars where they are isolated from the general public. It will be easier to keep the virus out than it will be to protect the public from a bunch of criminals! If a prisoner is infected, he will be easier to deal with in jail than on the outside. Prisoners are already "social distanced and quarantined", so what more would you want. Lock them down and limit their movements until this passes. After all, that is what they want me to do in my own home. The wide variance in opinions from "experts" is amazing, and reminds me that opinions are like a$$holes, every body has one.  It's like the situation with masks, for example. At first, the experts say " a mask will not do you any good to keep from being infected," but the demand for them can't hardly be met now. The cry of Trump not responding fast enough can be asked of congress also, along with state and local health organizations. But Congress was so busy trying to railroad Trump with an impeachment proceeding that they weren't paying any attention, but Trump did start closing down the country with travel restrictions at that time. Time will tell who was right and who was wrong in all of this. Just saw another report of a celebrity give an update oh their condition. WHO CARES!!!. The way that some of them are jumping on the "Hey, look at me I got the virus !" band wagon is disturbing, especially the comments from them like "I'm getting by as best I can" when they can do it in a lot better style than the rest of us. Lots of free publicity for them to go along with it. I don't want to hear from any of them unless they are making a big donation to a charity that is actually doing some good for the people that really need it. There was a report of a homeless person who tested positive for the virus "walked away" from a local hospital, and now there is a panic to find him. I have two questions. One, is with all the reports of the critical shortage in testing kits are, how did a homeless person get tested? And if he was indeed testing positive, how in the hell did he just "walk away", and no effort was made to detain him at the hospital? One of many decisions and things in general that just sound fishy. I have had little trust for the news media in general, and also for the medical "experts" in general. The conflict with their explanations of what to do "because we have never seen anything like this before"  and "we don't know what to expect about this or that" but then offer up their own opinions as gospel on the subject. I heard one expert that made the most sense to me, and it had to do with all the reported "data modeling" that is being done and taken so seriously on how to handle all of this. This guy said that data modeling was what he does for a living and for all sorts of different aspects of life. And one thing is an indisputable fact is that all data models are wrong, no mater what they are for, and that is why they have to keep re-running the data models. And the data model results are like play-doh, you can make almost anything you want out of them and the experts lean on them far too much. I like the definition of expert; expert; Noun , also known as a former drip under pressure!
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: Avaiojet on March 30, 2020, 06:41:59 PM
Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/opinion/trump-coronavirus.html

I'm not one for giggles when it comes to education or the lack of.

Jaco,

You read the NYT and believe what's written in it?



Title: Re: Compared to what? - talk of the virus
Post by: RC Storick on March 30, 2020, 07:14:07 PM
I did not close this thread even after a phone call because it's against my principles I set down for rules in the beginning of this forum. It has now hit the 3 strikes rule and has run its course. So I am going to lock it down. Please remember we are all in this together. Be kind