Compared to what? - talk of the virus

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Tony Drago - the video you linked highlights Chinese ownership in American business - a very real danger I referred to earlier.  We need legislation NOW.

American Revolutionary War: I’m very grateful for France’s assistance, and think of Lafayette as a real hero.  Not to diminish that appreciation, it must be acknowledged by any intelligent observer that France entered the conflict to pursue its own goals while assisting us.  It would seem some who comment here are history-challenged ...

WWII: The punitive damages inflicted on the Axis Powers in the Treaty of Versailles provided all the incentive needed to insure WWII. France, having been invaded by Germany twice in the span of about 40 years, literally wanted Germany crushed.  America never ratified that treaty - in fact American President Woodrow Wilson pushed to make rebuilding the European economy one of the goals.

Many experts in such matters - and that clearly doesn’t include me - argue the French had perhaps the best tanks in the world when WWII began; their weakness was the inability to communicate by radio in the field.  And their Air Force was regarded as superior to Germany’s.

But their political and military leadership was simply inept and disorganized, and the Air Force went AWOL.  French leaders seemed more inclined to fight each other than to fight the Germans.  And then the British abandoned them at Dunkirk.

So, let’s be honest - without the weapons and fighting men America provided, France likely would never have recovered as it existed.

Weapons Production: ALL Allied nations produced about 640,000 aircraft between 1939 and 1945; America alone produced more than 300,000 of those.  Russia produced about 158,000.  The disparity is much greater in other weapons (systems); who became the great ship builders?

So, let’s be honest again - it’s pretty accurate to say America became the Arsenal for the Allies during WWII.

WWII Ends: America implemented the Marshall Plan (European Recovery Program) by transferring 12+ billion dollars (128+ billion in today’s dollars) to Western European Nations to assist in economic recovery.  The United Kingdom, France and West Germany were major recipients; I’ve read German entities could obtain loans at interest rates lower than Americans were paying here at home.

I spent a couple of years working for a CPA (Certified Public Accountant) who was stationed in Japan for some time at the end of WWII, setting up accounting systems for farming co-ops.

Perhaps - possibly, maybe - if our European Allies had put just a bit more effort into making lasting peace, rather than punishing ... who knows?

While I’m writing, let me thank European Allies for something that troubles me much more: the jillion nations/territories they colonized.  I worked with Somali immigrants here, consider their war-torn homeland - Somalia didn’t become self-governing until 1960, after being held by Germany, Britain and Italy.

The list goes on and on.  Perhaps - possibly, maybe - if our European Allies had been just a bit less inclined to acquire power over (and resources from) others ... then again, who knows?

The current Mideast picture is very much a result of that practice as well as other issues.  And these Europeans come here to criticize our society and our leaders?

I really enjoy discussion/debate on current events but think it’s pretty meaningless without some FACTS and LOGIC.  What we see here often is the equivalent of a drive-by shooting; name-calling and 4-word sound bites with no basis, and often rather incoherent at best.

Which reminds me of a time many years ago -

German Arrogance: Way back in the ‘60s I worked with a German immigrant.  His father had served in the German Artillery Forces in WWII, and Wolfgang came to America when he was 8.  When an emergency vehicle drove by with a siren on, you could see the hair on the back of his neck stand up; memories of bomb shelters were still vivid for him.

He wasn’t the most popular guy in the building, but he was very intelligent, open-minded, and told you exactly what he thought.  I really enjoyed those qualities; we became very good friends, spent a lot of time together, and soon our families were getting together often.

At times he would laugh at himself and joke about his “German arrogance”.

As a Presidential election approached, it became very clear he was a die-hard Democrat.  As it turned out, our supervisor was what might be called a “Suburban Democrat” with rather liberal values.  But the three of us enjoyed openly discussing issues, and the change was remarkable.

Our supervisor in time began walking into other offices with a copy of a book by the Republican candidate, literally campaigning for him.  Wolfgang and his wife became Chairman and Chairwoman of the Young Republicans group in their precinct.

FACTS and LOGIC ...

qaz049 - I’m not sure why you feel a need to come here and insult America and Americans, but I DO suggest you brush up on history before making statements like you’ve made.  Please, provide a list of the scholars who feel the Soviets made the biggest contribution to victory in WWII.

OH, wait!  Perhaps you should first use your deep understanding and knowledge to help your own nation prevent and/or fight fires ...  Great to see American firefighters and equipment help there, just as Aussies have helped here!


Dennis

[katana]

Weapons Production: ALL Allied nations produced about 640,000 aircraft between 1939 and 1945; America alone produced more than 300,000 of those.  Russia produced about 158,000.  The disparity is much greater in other weapons (systems); who became the great ship builders?

So easy when you aren't getting bombed morning, noon and night! Remind me how many actual bombs / munitions have actually fallen on the continental USA in the last 100 years?
Why does the USA insist on being the world's policeman if you don't like the rest of the world so much? Why choose the pre-emptive invasion option when not ever having to fend off that option yourselves - how would you feel if it was tried - pretty pissed I guess? Maybe if YOU stopped meddling in the affairs of others, they wouldn't be so hostile against you - Iran or Afghanistan are hardly liable to try invading the USA?
No one has any right to degrade the memory of ANYONE (friend or foe) who served their country during wartime as wars are fought by ordinary people under the direction of politicians for reasons most don't understand or necessarily agree with but generally behind the scenes someone profits from wars - generally people that are supplying the materials, raw or unfinished.
Pull out of NATO, the majority of europeans wouldn't even notice / care - don't threaten to do it - just do it. The era of 'Sabre rattling' diplomacy is over, lets everyone stop trying to convert the 'other side' to christianity / islam, communist / capitalist, socialist / liberalist / conservative, expansionist / isolationist etc. etc. etc. and we may get on a whole lot better?
This virus doesn't care where you are, how wealthy or poor you are or what your politics are - just how sick it can make you ! ! ! One would hope that every country possessing a pharma industry is striving to produce a vaccine and when it becomes available, the recipe is shared around freely - but I doubt that will happen . . . . . . . . as said, there are always profiteers in war time!

[Tom McClain]

So easy when you aren't getting bombed morning, noon and night! Remind me how many actual bombs / munitions have actually fallen on the continental USA in the last 100 years?
Why does the USA insist on being the world's policeman if you don't like the rest of the world so much? Why choose the pre-emptive invasion option when not ever having to fend off that option yourselves - how would you feel if it was tried - pretty pissed I guess? Maybe if YOU stopped meddling in the affairs of others, they wouldn't be so hostile against you - Iran or Afghanistan are hardly liable to try invading the USA?
No one has any right to degrade the memory of ANYONE (friend or foe) who served their country during wartime as wars are fought by ordinary people under the direction of politicians for reasons most don't understand or necessarily agree with but generally behind the scenes someone profits from wars - generally people that are supplying the materials, raw or unfinished.
Pull out of NATO, the majority of europeans wouldn't even notice / care - don't threaten to do it - just do it. The era of 'Sabre rattling' diplomacy is over, lets everyone stop trying to convert the 'other side' to christianity / islam, communist / capitalist, socialist / liberalist / conservative, expansionist / isolationist etc. etc. etc. and we may get on a whole lot better?
This virus doesn't care where you are, how wealthy or poor you are or what your politics are - just how sick it can make you ! ! ! One would hope that every country possessing a pharma industry is striving to produce a vaccine and when it becomes available, the recipe is shared around freely - but I doubt that will happen . . . . . . . . as said, there are always profiteers in war time!

This one is so easy that I almost resisted spending time to teach a pig to sing, but here goes:

1. Why is NATO ponying up the Billions of Euros that they have been arrears in after Trump demanded they do so if they want America to leave.  Trump would like to leave, but he recognizes NATO's value, little that it be.  Or should Europe pay with the millions of young men you willingly gave up in the trenches of WWI and the death camps of WWII?  American gave willingly 176,000 doughboys and devil dogs for WWI to supposedly end war for all time.  And America gave another 440,000 to end WWII and the NAZI Socialism and  Japanese Empire Facism and free the world.

2. I seem to remember Pearl Harbor and 911 and the death of almost 6000 Americans.  Note the count of the thousands killed by the Japanese Empire on December 7, 1941 in the Phillipines, Wake Island, Midway, Guam, Marshall Islands, and more.  One other battle of WWII I need to mention:  The Battle of the Atlantic or what the German U-Boat Captains (Aces) called the Happy Time; 
 

Year   Ships lost by U-boat    Ships lost all enemy causes    No. of Crew* Lost by u-boat     No. of Crew* Lost all causes
 1939   50    95   260    495
 1940   225   511   3,375   5,622
 1941   288   568   5,632   7,838
 1942   452   590   8,413   9,736
 1943   203   266   3,826   4,606
 1944   67   102   1,163   1,512
 1945   30   45   229   323
 Total   1,315    2,177   22,898   30,132 

Many of these losses were in sight of the US Eastern Seaboard and their wrecks remain there on the sea floor to this day.

3. We do not want to the World's Policeman, but do it because we do not want the terrorists and expansionists at our front door as before:  Pearl Harbor and 911 and the death of almost 6000 Americans.  Not to mention the thousands of Americans killed by the Japanese Empire on December 7, 1941 in the Phillipines, Wake Island, Midway, Guam, Marshall Islands, and more. Yes, Phillipinos were American Citizens during WWII.

4. We in America with the best ever if it is not perfect Medical System will conquer the Chinese Wuhan Virus and than offer it nearly free to the rest of the world.  And how will we be thanked for it, same as we were for WWI, WWII, Korea, the rebuilding of Japan and Europe after WWII, etc..

[Dan McEntee]

So easy when you aren't getting bombed morning, noon and night! Remind me how many actual bombs / munitions have actually fallen on the continental USA in the last 100 years?

    Yeah, that is exactly correct. And don't ever forget it. There were very minor efforts to assault the US mainland during WW-2 but no serious efforts because they knew it would be futile. It would have been real easy to sit on our hands as isolationists like so many wanted to at those times. And if we had, would you be here today and speaking the language that you do? Something to ponder.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

[Bob Heywood]

Boycott China!

[John Park]

Many experts in such matters - and that clearly doesn’t include me - argue the French had perhaps the best tanks in the world when WWII began; their weakness was the inability to communicate by radio in the field.  And their Air Force was regarded as superior to Germany’s.

I strongly recommend that anyone who wishes to know the truth of France's collapse in 1940 should read Assignment to Catastrophe by E L Spears, who was possibly the most Francophile Englishman of the twentieth century.  The French Army's lack of communications was only one of a long list of failures, yet its commanders - Petain, Weygand etc. - seemed honestly to believe that it was the 'best army in the world'.  Many of those failures, incidentally, were administrative rather than equipment-related.

[Jim Svitko]

    Yeah, that is exactly correct. And don't ever forget it. There were very minor efforts to assault the US mainland during WW-2 but no serious efforts because they knew it would be futile. It would have been real easy to sit on our hands as isolationists like so many wanted to at those times. And if we had, would you be here today and speaking the language that you do? Something to ponder.
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee

Very true, Dan.  If not for the geography which allowed North America to be out of reach of any serious offensive campaign the Japanese and Germans might have attempted, our industrial capability could have been crippled and the world might be quite different now.

And, although the Atlantic Ocean shielded us to some extent, remember how serious the situation was in England due to the U-boats.  At one time, England was down to about one month supply of food, ammo, gasoline, etc.  If not for the massive production capability of the U. S., the U-boat campaign would have succeeded.  Instead, we produced more ships than the Germans could sink, we produced more planes than the Germans could shoot down, etc.

So, instead of bitching about how "lucky" WE were, you should be thankful for it, because, in the end, YOU benefitted from it.

Just my 2 cents regarding this issue.

[Dennis Moritz]

Maybe you guys didn’t notice that Orange Inflated didn’t say word one in support of Hong Kong. Kissy kissy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dan McEntee]

Very true, Dan.  If not for the geography which allowed North America to be out of reach of any serious offensive campaign the Japanese and Germans might have attempted, our industrial capability could have been crippled and the world might be quite different now.

And, although the Atlantic Ocean shielded us to some extent, remember how serious the situation was in England due to the U-boats.  At one time, England was down to about one month supply of food, ammo, gasoline, etc.  If not for the massive production capability of the U. S., the U-boat campaign would have succeeded.  Instead, we produced more ships than the Germans could sink, we produced more planes than the Germans could shoot down, etc.

So, instead of bitching about how "lucky" WE were, you should be thankful for it, because, in the end, YOU benefitted from it.

Just my 2 cents regarding this issue.

    A new movie is coming out with Tom Hanks called "Greyhound" and is about the convoy escorts and their being hunted by the U-boat wolf packs. Can't wait to see it.  It's kind of a forgotten aspect of the war in Europe. I'm an airplane nerd, but there is a deep Navy tradition in my family history that I never forget. Was it Henry Kaiser who took over the production of the Liberty cargo ships and managed to crank out one a day at the height of production, or some other impossible number? Henry Ford producing a B-24 bomber at a rate of in per hour? It would have been impossible with out a total, full effort of the American people, including our women folk, the WASPs, WAVEs, and the Rosie Riveters who stepped up. It's hard for some people to fathom this even in our advanced technical society.
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Jim Roselle]

How many people who have publicly called covid-19 a hoax on this forum are willing to publicly commit to not going to the hospital and taking up valuable bed space if they get diagnosed with covid? Come on big talkers, it’s a big hoax.

[Dennis Moritz]

Ahh. The trained seals are barking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Steve Dwyer]

Can we change the tempo a bit? Below are a few quips I jotted down, can anyone add to the list? It may be amusing.

Steve

Life is Changing.

I went to the bank drive-thru yesterday only to immediately discard the latex gloves and douse my hands in sanitizer after touching the carrier.

Walking in from outside I go directly to the washbasin with hand in the air like a surgeon going into operation.

I visited my grandkids yesterday, they stood on one side of the street while we stayed on the other with cars going between us.

I used to occasionally read the obits to find if anyone I knew had died, now I turn on the TV every morning to see how many thousands more have died from this pandemic.

Today I sit in the confines of my four walls attempting to feel secure with only the false hope I may have more toilet paper than my neighbor.

Went for a ride yesterday windows down radio blasting along a nearby country road trying to forget what is taking place then I looked at my fuel gauge and realized I have to get out my latex gloves and mask before getting out to fill up.

I walked down into the shop yesterday to stand and look around then told myself I have everything I’ll ever need for another project. I have to, after all, going to Lowes or HD is too high a risk for an old geezer like me.

At 72 I’m still employed or was on a part-time basis as an estimator for a construction company. It keeps me busy and I enjoy staying engaged. Yesterday I was instructed to apply for unemployment this is a first for me.

If I looked at an oral thermometer one a year it would be a lot, now I use it daily.

[Dan Berry]

Ahh. The trained seals are barking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You sure are.

[Dan McEntee]

How many people who have publicly called covid-19 a hoax on this forum are willing to publicly commit to not going to the hospital and taking up valuable bed space if they get diagnosed with covid? Come on big talkers, it’s a big hoax.

   If you read each and every post, I think you will find that no one has stated that it was a hoax, just a gross over reaction and driven hysteria, and as the thread title asks, compared to what?? More people are and will die from the flu. Most people that contract Covid19 are being treated at home. We see the photos and videos of celebrities and such waving to us from behind glass doors. The average, normally healthy person would only get symptoms similar to a bad cold, and that has been known since the very beginning, but has not been emphasized enough. As I watch my local news, they are starting to run out of things to get dramatic about their "facts about Covid19" are getting more menial by the day. There are people that need to be concerned about it, but their conditions are that they need to be concerned about a LOT of other illnesses also. It has been stated and proven by a lot of prominent doctors that you are statistically more likely to die from a flu virus. I'll bet there have been a lot of people that HAVE had it, but didn't know it, and just self treated as they would have a normal cold or flu. I think that is why you have some of these concentrated "breakouts" And even at it's worst, you are still only talking about 200 some odd case world wide out of a population of billions of people. The people that efforts should be focused on are the most at risk which are the elderly with existing health complications, and other ages with similar health issues. You are talking about a MUCH smaller target and you wouldn't have to worry about these shortages. Check out that map that Ted posted the link to and look at it closely and let that sink in. Then watch that video that Tony Drago posted and let that sink in.  There is more being done to drive and fan the hysteria and panic than there is to suppress it and spread good information. Time will tell what was correct.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Steve Dwyer]

Ok, a few more have come to mind. Your responses have to be your own, nothing off line let's be original.

Here's a few more to add.

Quips # 2

I used to go to the shower to freshen up now I take a shower to detoxify.

Traditionally when I discovered the roll was down to the last square I’d swing around to find a new roll sitting on the tank. Now I have to wonder where the wife is hiding the stash.

Are all the "Conservative" right-wingers using only one square to do their part?

[Ken Culbertson]

Are all the "Conservative" right-wingers using only one square to do their part?

Probably not.  One has never been enough.  Maybe progressives can do it with one but that would mean that they have wisecracks.

Now that we have separated the herd and played "Wack-a Troll" some, isn't it about time we got back to
discussing flying?

Ken

[Steve Dwyer]

Ken Thanks much, yes let's get back to flying. There is nothing productive from verbal abuse and bullying, what does it accomplish except drive apart what has been a great site to use for CL information?

Steve

[Jim Roselle]

This is not the flu. It is much more transmissible and severe.
The average person with the flu will transmit to 1.2 other people.
A person with covid will transmit to 2-3 people.
This is why the first 100,000 cases took 3 months to develop and the second 100,000 developed in 12 days.
20% of people infected will need emergency room care. If this spreads unchecked we won’t have enough hospital beds and people will die unnecessarily. No ones being asked to “stay home and worry” as someone stated. You’re being asked to stay home and protect the entire community, not just yourself.
And no, I won’t watch a facebook video someone shot at home and pretend it’s news from a reputable source.

   If you read each and every post, I think you will find that no one has stated that it was a hoax, just a gross over reaction and driven hysteria, and as the thread title asks, compared to what?? More people are and will die from the flu. Most people that contract Covid19 are being treated at home. We see the photos and videos of celebrities and such waving to us from behind glass doors. The average, normally healthy person would only get symptoms similar to a bad cold, and that has been known since the very beginning, but has not been emphasized enough. As I watch my local news, they are starting to run out of things to get dramatic about their "facts about Covid19" are getting more menial by the day. There are people that need to be concerned about it, but their conditions are that they need to be concerned about a LOT of other illnesses also. It has been stated and proven by a lot of prominent doctors that you are statistically more likely to die from a flu virus. I'll bet there have been a lot of people that HAVE had it, but didn't know it, and just self treated as they would have a normal cold or flu. I think that is why you have some of these concentrated "breakouts" And even at it's worst, you are still only talking about 200 some odd case world wide out of a population of billions of people. The people that efforts should be focused on are the most at risk which are the elderly with existing health complications, and other ages with similar health issues. You are talking about a MUCH smaller target and you wouldn't have to worry about these shortages. Check out that map that Ted posted the link to and look at it closely and let that sink in. Then watch that video that Tony Drago posted and let that sink in.  There is more being done to drive and fan the hysteria and panic than there is to suppress it and spread good information. Time will tell what was correct.
  Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Tom McClain]

Maybe you guys didn’t notice that Orange Inflated didn’t say word one in support of Hong Kong. Kissy kissy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dennis,

What is it you are trying to say?  Because whatever it is is not obvious even to a European.

[Tom McClain]

Ok, a few more have come to mind. Your responses have to be your own, nothing off line let's be original.

Here's a few more to add.

Quips # 2

I used to go to the shower to freshen up now I take a shower to detoxify.

Traditionally when I discovered the roll was down to the last square I’d swing around to find a new roll sitting on the tank. Now I have to wonder where the wife is hiding the stash.
[\quote]
I
Steve,

You have some alternatives:

1. Give up.

2. Bend over.

3.  Man up and make lemonade.

4. Continue whining.  I have some cheese I can Fedex you if you need it.

[Dave_Trible]

I will only say that being someone in the 65+ age bracket I’d consider it a favor to stay home and sit this out while the pestilence passes over.  However I was just handed a letter to show law enforcement to let me pass since my employer is considered critical infrastructure.  This is a serious matter and will become much more so soon.  It’s really no respecter of age, place in life or political party.  It’s an equal opportunity killer of those it chooses.  If you can,  hunker down and stay well.

Dave

[Mike Griffin]

Mike I think if you look at real history books (the ones without all the pictures) you'll find that the French financed and won the Revolutionary War on behalf of the rather disorganized continental states.  Perhaps you're not aware of the enormous contribution that the European's in general made to the foundation of the USA? Also I think that you'll find that most scholars agree that the Soviets made the biggest contribution to victory in WW2 of all the Allies. You're sounding very much like a Monty Python skit, "what have the Europeans ever done for us?" I see that someone has already mentioned the Dunning Kruger effect, Paranoia and Xenophobia.

In view of the recent leadership shenanigans in your country, it may be better if your Government detains the Clown in Chief, and humbly apologize to Her Majesty for the past insult to good King George the 3rd.  She make take you up again as a colony if you're lucky.

Mr. Gaz,


I would suggest you stick to building model planes.  Your stupidity as to actual history is making you look like a glittering jewel of colossal ignorance.

Mike

[john e. holliday]

With the help of the media, all sources, this is scary.  I've had chest congestion long before this scare started.  Been taking pills to get rid of it.  It is nice to not have all the traffic as I went to the hobby shop yesterday.  Clerks only people in the store and no balsa.  Did pick up a bottle of CA.  Wife is still working part time and I sat in the car while she was shopping and stocking up on stuff.  As far as toilet paper, what is the reason?  Since I can't reach my back side I use a brush and running water.  Do wash my hands more often than I used to.   Trying to drink more water than coffee,  but coffee calms me down.  Of course being retired I don't get out as much as when I was working.   But I asked the wife how many people died yesterday from accidents or highway crashes? 

If the media would tell the truth with true facts I might listen/read them.   But in reality people are so upset we have a President doing what should have been done all along.  But I guess that is what we get for having a business man instead of a politician telling us what people want to hear.  Do you get the idea I don't trust politicians either.   

[Arlan McKee]

Maybe you guys didn’t notice that Orange Inflated didn’t say word one in support of Hong Kong. Kissy kissy.


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Once again, Dennis, you have no Idea what you are talking about.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-at-un-offers-his-most-forceful-support-for-hong-kong-yet/ar-AAHMroh

I chose a link to a leftist site just for you.

[Tom McClain]

On a more pleasant note, my friend Ken Dufour, 80 years young, and I went flying at Friendship Park, Avondale, AZ with our three stunt ships.

I flew my Dave Rees T-38a and my Tucker 4 while Ken flew his SIG Twister once.  He had a leaky fuel tank.

It was a great day.

[john e. holliday]

Great to hear you are flying again.

[Tom McClain]

Great to hear you are flying again.

Doc,

After I retired from AFJROTC at Buckeye, AZ I started building and flying again in earnest. So far I am building 2 to 3 a year flying about 3 to 4 times a week. I have 2 Tucker 4s, Kostecky Patriot, Rees T-38a, Price Crusader, Wooley Argus, Suarez Phantom, English Quasar, and a Palmer Zero.  Presently I am flying the T-38, the Tucker 4, Patriot, and Crusader. Too many choices, too much fun.

Many of my planes (6) have been donated to the Glenn L. Martin Aviation Museum at the Martin State Airport.   Two Martin B-26 Marauders (one that flew twice at the VSC) a Sterling birdcage F-4U-1A Corsair, Musciano Bellanca Flash, Westland Wyvern, and a semi-scale NF-104 Starfighter that flew at the Brodak and Palisades Park. This is a great museum that deserves our support.  A fellow control line stunt flyer is assistant there by the name of Bernie Trent. 

[Dennis Toth]

Speaking of flying today my good friend Lynn and I got to the field. We are in Martin county and there are only a few cases of C19 in the far western part of the county. Our parks are still open but all events are on hold. Lynn is a great friend and a little older so I try to watch out for him. We keep our social distance but still had a great time and fun conversation. It was a great time. Hopefully, since my company wants us to work from home for the next two weeks I hope to get a little work done on my Barnstormer between calls.

So, guys stay healthy, wash your hands and when bored at being home - build something great. We will get through this.

Best,     DennisT

[Ted Fancher]

Maybe you guys didn’t notice that Orange Inflated didn’t say word one in support of Hong Kong. Kissy kissy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow!!! Deep, Dennis!  Impeccable name calling!

What are you now, in the "next" to bottom quintile of your second grade trash talking class?

Just guessing here...I bet you borrowed that colorfully clever crotch carresser from somebody else in the class and just pretended you made it up yourself.  Right?

Ted

[Steve Dwyer]

 I've had chest congestion long before this scare started.  Been taking pills to get rid of it.

 It is nice to not have all the traffic as I went to the hobby shop yesterday. But in reality people are so upset we have a President doing what should have been done all along.  But I guess that is what we get for having a business man instead of a politician telling us what people want to hear.  Do you get the idea I don't trust politicians either.   
[/quote]

Doc,
 I'm curious, I have had chest congestion for about three weeks before this the scare hit us. It began with a head cold and an infection in my chest which I resolved with an antibiotic. I have Asthma and usually experience a bout in the fall or the spring. I'm on my 4th course of Predisone along with daily use of Dulera inhaler a Cortisonal med to improve breathing. I am very concerned, presently I am experiencing fatigue, chest tightness and shortness of breath, BUT no fever thank God. I had an x-ray Monday to verify clarity in my chest. This is no hoax for me if I get this bug and it goes into my lungs I told my wife write me off.

Our chief politicians don't really seem to grasp reality. We sit here concerned, worried and even a little afraid but who are we? I guess we're just the expendables of war. Try not to be concerned stay home "the masks are on the way", "everything is incredibly fantastic and wonderful"

Good luck to you my friend!!!

Steve

[Tom McClain]

The gloom and doom on this thread from a few reminds me of Grandpa Jones and Junior on that (outstanding) TV show of the 70s and early 80s named "Hee Haw".  They would sing the following ditty:

Gloom despair and agony on me
Deep dark depression excessive misery
If I had no bad luck I have no luck at all
Gloom despair and agony on me

I just can't identify with that. We, the USA will conquer this unseen enemy and come out better on the other side.

[Brett Buck]

Wow!!! Deep, Dennis!  Impeccable name calling!

What are you now, in the "next" to bottom quintile of your second grade trash talking class?

Just guessing here...I bet you borrowed that colorfully clever crotch carresser from somebody else in the class and just pretended you made it up yourself.  Right?

   Hey, take it easy on Dennis - it's really hard making it as a playwright, when you are functionally illiterate.

     Brett

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

Well, this discussion has taken a turn.  With our cohort, it often returns to WW II history.

The battle of Kursk was not won primarily with lend-lease tanks, but instead the T-34. This is not to diminish the contributions of the Americans and British to the Soviets, but simply to recognize the 57,000 T-34s produced during the war.

[John Hammonds]

I am both amazed and dismayed at some of the comments in this thread and I hope the posts say more about the individual than the views of American people generally.

I have many interests apart from Toy Planes and as you can imagine all forums I freguent have there own "Corona Virus" posts. This is the only one where it has migrated from discussing the virus through to lambasting the various National Political parties until finally attacking every other nation regardless of their current situation or ethnic/religious background.

I had assumed I was in the presence of rational adults here and have been both a follower and supporter of Stunt Hanger for many years but the only reason I follow this thread is to check that no one has sadly passed away as a result of the current situation.

My interests and job put me in contact with many people from all over the world and I have many friends from various countries of European, Asian, Antipodean and American, locality/decent. With Liberal, Democrat, Conservative, Labour political views. Some are really struggling at the moment.

For my part I am reasonably healthy but being the wrong side of 60 am treating this situation with the same amount of respect as I would a left sided stroke.

Do, as some have posted people really think the US are working in isolation at trying to develop a vaccine and/or cure? I really hope not. This is a Pandemic and needs the appropriate response from Virologists and medical research experts across the globe and I really hope this is the case.

Flame away, I won't rise to your petty attacks, but for chrissakes guys get a grip.

TTFN
John.

[Dan Berry]

   Hey, take it easy on Dennis - it's really hard making it as a playwright, when you are functionally illiterate.

     Brett

Ouch

[Tom McClain]

Hey Brett,

I am getting closer to the ground on my pullouts. Not there consistently yet.

Different subject. Is this going to be the first manned launch of Space-X?

If it is, many prayers for the crew.

[Dennis Leonhardi]

So easy when you aren't getting bombed morning, noon and night! Remind me how many actual bombs / munitions have actually fallen on the continental USA in the last 100 years?
Why does the USA insist on being the world's policeman if you don't like the rest of the world so much? Why choose the pre-emptive invasion option when not ever having to fend off that option yourselves - how would you feel if it was tried - pretty pissed I guess? Maybe if YOU stopped meddling in the affairs of others, they wouldn't be so hostile against you - Iran or Afghanistan are hardly liable to try invading the USA?
No one has any right to degrade the memory of ANYONE (friend or foe) who served their country during wartime as wars are fought by ordinary people under the direction of politicians for reasons most don't understand or necessarily agree with but generally behind the scenes someone profits from wars - generally people that are supplying the materials, raw or unfinished.
Pull out of NATO, the majority of europeans wouldn't even notice / care - don't threaten to do it - just do it. The era of 'Sabre rattling' diplomacy is over, lets everyone stop trying to convert the 'other side' to christianity / islam, communist / capitalist, socialist / liberalist / conservative, expansionist / isolationist etc. etc. etc. and we may get on a whole lot better?
This virus doesn't care where you are, how wealthy or poor you are or what your politics are - just how sick it can make you ! ! ! One would hope that every country possessing a pharma industry is striving to produce a vaccine and when it becomes available, the recipe is shared around freely - but I doubt that will happen . . . . . . . . as said, there are always profiteers in war time!

You raise some very valid questions/points; we can surely agree on several.

I, for one, don’t want to be the world’s policeman.  But the “big kid on the block” is often asked to be just that.  Witness Hong Kong protesters calling on us ...  Did you notice them waving American flags and praising Trump?

When you Brits turned Hong Kong over to China, the Chinese agreed to honor the “one country, two systems” status for 50 years.  They clearly violated the terms of that treaty, why aren’t YOU screaming at the Chinese, and why aren’t the protesters calling on the British for help?

I’ve noticed over the years that many people criticize and/or resent the wealthy and have come to the (personal) conclusion it’s driven by envy.  When many criticize America and/or Trump, I often feel it’s driven by ... (fill in the blank).  We/he simply can’t win.

Just this past week I read a magazine article criticizing - no, demonizing - Trump for withdrawing forces from Syria, thereby putting the safety of Kurds at risk.  Indeed, the Kurds want us there to protect them.  Even as they acknowledge their ultimate goal would be to invade portions of Turkey to establish an independent nation state.

Either way, America/Trump is wrong, we are responsible for the absence of peace.  Which pretty much sums up everyday life for us.


Dennis

[Brett Buck]

Well, this discussion has taken a turn.  With our cohort, it often returns to WW II history.

The battle of Kursk was not won primarily with lend-lease tanks, but instead the T-34. This is not to diminish the contributions of the Americans and British to the Soviets, but simply to recognize the 57,000 T-34s produced during the war.

   The T-34 was probably the most effective tank in the war. The much-maligned Sherman had one overwhelming attribute - there was a huge number of them. When introduced, it was cheap reliable, and easily a match for the contemporary German tanks. It was improved only slowly, and other tank development was slow, because no one wanted to interrupt Sherman production to make something "better". the Germans introduced one super-tank after another, but because of that, they had slow production, and many of them were highly unreliable. When they were running and an adequate number were brought to bear, (and they had fuel) they were extremely effective. But that doesn't matter if they are broken down or they are greatly outnumbered. The Sherman was never intended to fight tank-to-tank.

   The T-34 was similar in that they were easy/quick to build and fairly reliable. They were no match head to head with the later Panzers, Panther, or either Tiger, but that wasn't necessary. The Russians used the *huge numbers* of Shermans until they had *huge numbers* ot T-34s.

  We eventually built better tanks, but they were in short supply, because they were unnecessary, by that time the war was essentially won in Europe, and to first approximation were either not needed in the Pacific, or far more than a match for anything that might have been used by the Japanese in the defense of the home islands.

   I don't think anyone significantly debates that it was the British, USSR, and USA were the major players, and hard to attribute it to just one. The French did nothing but run away, and then collaborate with the Nazis and even weakly fought the Allies.  The few who escaped, like the Government in Exile (self proclaimed) De Gaulle, did nothing but make a pain in the ass of himself. The Polish were overwhelmed, but were absolutely *fierce*. Everyone else just got steamrolled.

   I think what has happened since is a lot more important and relevant, essentially, all of Europe has indulged themselves in social experiments and claims of moral and cultural superiority - rebuilt, financed, and defended more-or-less free of charge, friend and foe alike, by the US Taxpayer. It real easy to give away tons of *someone else's money*.

    It's interesting to note that we have only allowed France to have a completely independent nuclear deterrent, the British being more of a partnership.

    Compare that to the Japanese, occupied and directed to our standards. The recovered pretty quickly, and became an economic powerhouse, although we do not permit them to fully defend themselves, it's clear that if we did, they would prove formidable. They are a "de facto" nuclear power - able to develop weapons in the order of a few months, if they set their minds to it.

    Brett

[Brett Buck]

Good News!!  Due to airlines being pretty much shut sown. CNN has  lost 99.8% of its viewers.

   They are still on in prisons.

    Brett

[Ken Culbertson]

Good News!!  Due to airlines being pretty much shut sown. CNN has  lost 99.8% of its viewers.

For info the "hoax" the president was referring to was some news "reporting",NOT the virus.

  in that order.

Ken

[Brett Buck]

Different subject. Is this going to be the first manned launch of Space-X?

If it is, many prayers for the crew.

   The May launch? I think it probably is. To be honest, I am not sure what to expect. I don't work with anything either SpaceX or NASA (at least for a long time now), but the knock on NASA is that they are too conservative. SpaceX doesn't seem to have that problems. As big a putz as Elon Musk is, he's not actually doing the work, an I know they have some pretty sharp people over there.

   We are going again on Thursday, which should be no problem, aside from having all these isolation restrictions.

    Brett

[Tom McClain]

Good News!!  Due to airlines being pretty much shut sown. CNN has  lost 99.8% of its viewers.

For info the "hoax" the president was referring to was some news "reporting",NOT the virus.

Ty,  bases loaded homer run!  Tears are streaming from my tear ducts.

Different subject; did you get your Tucker 4 flying right?

[Steve Dwyer]

John Hammonds,

 I can't agree with you more on your many points and for anyone to say what Tom McClain has said (he said some say) ----he says, as follows, I have the following final comment.

"Some the gloom and doom on this thread reminds of Grandpa Jones and Junior on that (outstanding) TV show of the 70s and early 80s named "Hee Haw".  They would sing the following ditty:"

Gloom despair and agony on me
Deep dark depression excessive misery
If I had no bad luck I have no luck at all
Gloom despair and agony on me

"I just can't identify with this"

We are in a real serious jamb here in our country and worldwide and it's going to get worse while some like this fool enjoy making lite of others' difficulties. HE said "he can't identify with that"  people like him are typically unable to.

I'm now stepping away at this point and leaving my word I will never waste my time looking at this bizarre thread again. I have no respect for the thinking of these people. Perhaps I can block it. I RECOMMEND ANYONE WATCHING HERE THAT HAS ANY SENSE AND CAPACITY FOR HUMANITY STAY AWAY. LEAVE THESE SAD, LACKING, BACKSTABBING, BIGOTTED AND NARROW-MINDED PEOPLE TO THEMSELVES, THEY DESERVE KICKING EACH OTHER AROUND AND HAVE NO PLACE ON MODELING PLATFORM LIKE SH.

Goodbye I'll see you at the next modeling appropriate topic

Steve

[Dan McEntee]

   And this attitude , Steve, is exactly why I can't go out and find a roll of toilet paper tonight, if I had real need of it. What you are displaying is the panic and hysteria that some of us are talking about. "We" all are not in a real jam. This "thing" is NOT a death sentence for EVERYONE that happens to contract it. There is no reason to be stupid and not take some precaution, but to panic and run around like Chicken Little is ridiculous. I asked the question before, is there anyone that has been directly affected by this event, and I don't think anyone has answered other than me. I got laid off for three weeks because of orders practically coming to a stop, and the owner of the company was just looking for a reason to lay people off, but told us they were 'giving you the opportunity to self quarantine at home and avoid further transmission." even in a high population density area like New York, you might go a long way before you find some one that has been directly affected. But millions and millions of peoples lives have been affected due to the markets crashing, and some people's futures ruined because of this panic. And there is no reason for it. Even with some people's concerns about flying and traveling on cruise ships have been over blown. Yes, some people have contracted the virus, but again, compared to what? People get sick on cruise ships and die every year, and is the main reason I won't ever go on one. But that happens under "normal circumstances."  It would be interesting to see a comparison of deaths  per year on cruise ships against what has happened recently with the virus. As of just a few minutes ago, the death total WORLD WIDE is still far below what the total deaths from the flu have been in THIS COUNTRY for the last year. Not even half, and flu season isn't over yet for a while. Yes, this is a serious situation, but it has also has shown me who I would want to have around me in an emergency or if I was stranded on a deserted island and who I would NOT want around. Isn't there a saying that goes something like, "Blessed are those that can keep their heads while those all around are loosing theirs!"
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
 

[Tom McClain]

John Hammonds,

 I can't agree with you more on your many points and for anyone to say what Tom McClain has said (he said some say) ----he says, as follows, I have the following final comment.

"Some of the gloom and doom on this thread reminds of Grandpa Jones and Junior on that (outstanding) TV show of the 70s and early 80s named "Hee Haw".  They would sing the following ditty:"

Gloom despair and agony on me
Deep dark depression excessive misery
If I had no bad luck I have no luck at all
Gloom despair and agony on me

"I just can't identify with this"

We are in a real serious jamb here in our country and worldwide and it's going to get worse while some like this fool enjoy making lite of others' difficulties. HE said "he can't identify with that"  people like him are typically unable to.

I'm now stepping away at this point and leaving my word I will never waste my time looking at this bizarre thread again. I have no respect for the thinking of these people. Perhaps I can block it. I RECOMMEND ANYONE WATCHING HERE THAT HAS ANY SENSE AND CAPACITY FOR HUMANITY STAY AWAY. LEAVE THESE SAD, LACKING, BACKSTABBING, BIGOTTED AND NARROW-MINDED PEOPLE TO THEMSELVES, THEY DESERVE KICKING EACH OTHER AROUND AND HAVE NO PLACE ON MODELING PLATFORM LIKE SH.

Goodbye I'll see you at the next modeling appropriate topic

Steve

Steve,

You deliberately misunderstand me. This is serious and any death is a tragedy. My wife and I are doing as the President has requested and sheltering in place and when out, practicing social distancing. My wife has a 93 year old father and we respecting his privacy and keeping him protected at his assisted living facility. But, we know that this shall pass. So, I refuse to be a Debby Downer.

So, are you going to be an ostrich or stay optimistic and engaged. The latter is a better way to live.

[Dennis Leonhardi]

Isn't there a saying that goes something like, "Blessed are those that can keep their heads while those all around are loosing theirs!"
   Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee
 

Rudyard Kipling, Dan.  I found his poem, IF, when I was 9 and have tried to guide much in my life by it -

If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,   
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;   
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
    And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;   
    If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;   
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;   
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
    And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,   
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,   
    Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,   
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,   
    And - which is more - you’ll be a Man, my son!

[Dan McEntee]

   HEY, Thanks Dennis. I'll have to print that and put it up somewhere.
    Type at you later,
  Dan McEntee

[Robert Zambelli]

Sorry for the lateness in responding to my own thread but nobody to blame but myself.
I had no idea what an interesting assortment of replies it would generate! Furthermore, I’m pleased to say that most of the responses were informative, polite, to the point and showed a true sense of patriotism.
I learned a lot from you and I thank you for the kinds comments!!

Of course, a few of the responses were cruel, mean, ignorant and totally uncalled-for.

So, there are a few Trump haters out there.
Here’s my challenge: Who do you think would make a better President than Trump?
Let’s hear your answers.

If you don’t answer, I will take your silence as a true sign of ignorance as you haven’t a clue what’s going on in the world. You just enjoy hiding behind your keyboard, bitching, complaining and hurling insults at one of the best presidents in history.

The only thing you accomplish is making complete fools of yourselves.
You don’t like the way our country is being run? THEN LEAVE.

And you foreigners who insult and complain about Trump? Simple solution: STAY IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY. Enjoy your pathetic royal weddings, liberal and sickening excuses for leaders and complete lack of knowledge of our wonderful country. Your opinions and insults ARE NOT WELCOME, at least not by me.

Bob Z.

[Mike Griffin]

Bob, they all should be thanking GOD that we have Donald Trump as a President right now.  I could not think of a better man for the job given the current circumstances. 

Mike

[Ken Culbertson]

Sorry for the lateness in responding to my own thread but nobody to blame but myself.
I had no idea what an interesting assortment of replies it would generate! Furthermore, I’m pleased to say that most of the responses were informative, polite, to the point and showed a true sense of patriotism.
I learned a lot from you and I thank you for the kinds comments!!

Of course, a few of the responses were cruel, mean, ignorant and totally uncalled-for.

So, there are a few Trump haters out there.
Here’s my challenge: Who do you think would make a better President than Trump?
Let’s hear your answers.

If you don’t answer, I will take your silence as a true sign of ignorance as you haven’t a clue what’s going on in the world. You just enjoy hiding behind your keyboard, bitching, complaining and hurling insults at one of the best presidents in history.

The only thing you accomplish is making complete fools of yourselves.
You don’t like the way our country is being run? THEN LEAVE.

And you foreigners who insult and complain about Trump? Simple solution: STAY IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY. Enjoy your pathetic royal weddings, liberal and sickening excuses for leaders and complete lack of knowledge of our wonderful country. Your opinions and insults ARE NOT WELCOME, at least not by me.

Bob Z.

And now that you have our tempered response...