Two person handle.

[Charles Carter]

Where can I find a two person handle for teaching people how to fly control line? The handle I have seen before has two handles joined together; one grip for each person to hold allowing an instructor and a beginner to hold flying lines at the same time.

 Charles Carter

[Dave Hull]

Monsieur Cartier,

I saw a sketch of one like you describe in Model Aviation, going way back. Showed a picture of the guys using it, too. Now I just have to remember when it was published. I'd guess in the seventies....

Dave

[Dave Hull]

Ok, just found it:  Model Aviation, July 1976

D

[Charles Carter]

Thank you Dave.  I look forward to seeing you again.

Charles Carter

[Charles Carter]

I saw one that was made commercially. If I had to make one I could.    "I built it not bought it" quoting Sparky.


Charles Carter

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

One of the NVCL guys makes them.  He uses both metal and wood for different aspects.  PM me if you want his email.

Peter

[Mark Mc]

Well, I've never tried flying two-up to teach, but I've seen the "Y" handle design.  It seemed like it'd have a lot of lateral pressure to account for as well as vertical pressure for the trainee to handle.  The one I saw in an old magazine that I figured I'd make if I was ever going to teach someone was a tandem design.  I don't know where I saw it, but the student holds the handle, and the instructor's hand is in front of that. Kinda like my terrible drawing below:




You get the idea.

Mark

[Don Jenkins]

I've used one like this to teach my Daughter and Granddaughter, works great.  I hold the aluminum bar, when they lost control or got dizzy they release the handle.

Don

[Perry Rose]

Connect two normal handles with foot long pieces of string/rope. Student has the handle connected to the plane, instructor has the other handle standing in the normal instructor position. That way the instructor has control when needed and the student gets the complete feel of the plane and control inputs. Closest thing to a buddy box.

[john e. holliday]

I use the F2D Combat handle that I got off Steve Wilk many years ago.   Might get a picture taken later.

[L0U CRANE]

I agree with Don... a handle with a front frame piece works well. We not only keep guiding the trainee in smooth control inputs, but also in turning with the model. If the newbie gets dizzy or confused, either the handle is let go or it is arm wrestled over. Either case, the trainer can -or should- overrule the incorrect moves.

It also allows a little 'dry-flying' with the student. Example: before a first flight, trainer stands somewhat to the right, behind trainee, left hand on trainee's left shoulder. Trainee is told to walk backwards in a small circle as the trainer walks forward the same way. Again, the trainer controls or influences) the learner's moves. (Adjust 'handedness' according to the individuals involved...) A handle should be shared between them as it will be during that first flight.

Trainer holds handle around the front frame piece so the learner has the actual grip. After 'initiating' the learner in stepping safely and correctly, have the learner 'ride along' for several laps without applying inputs, then allow gentle inputs as directed by instructor. When it appears the lesson has been mastered, the trainer should continue circling with 'his' hand on the front frame or just in front of it  so as to intervene if necessary for any unwanted inputs or stumbles or panic.

After several laps of riding along lightly, and if it feels safe and appropriate, the instructor can come off the handle, step back - but not too far - and guide the trainee verbally. After conditioning the gradual and small control corrections that work, it should be safe to let the trainee land the plane with verbal guidance and encouragement  when the time comes. A little explanation before  the 'silence' should prepare the guy for his first successful landing.

It is a bit awkward for the instructor, but a little practice switching hands while flying solo will overcome that. Need I add that for this business, thongs are not only irrelevant, but dangerous? After a successful solo, stress thongs for every flight, of course (you may add a wink-wink-nudge if you must...)

And anyway, don't most good handles have either a single front piece or a partial piece above and below?

[John Rist]

I just taught my Grandson to fly.   Hand on top of hand worked fine.  He was already an RC pilot. He learned quick .  I took the plane off.  With two hands I grabbed the handle by it's top and bottom.  He slid his hand in and I placed my hand on top of his.  This works great because he can feel what I am doing and he can feel when I let go.  He actually landed the first flight.  Second flight  I was in the circle with him but he soloed on this flight.  The next three flights I was outside the circle.  However Like I said he was a good RC pilot when he started.   Hel knew how to fly.  He just had to get used to the control response.

[Ken Culbertson]

I just taught my Grandson to fly.   Hand on top of hand worked fine.  He was already an RC pilot. He learned quick .  I took the plane off.  With two hands I grabbed the handle by it's top and bottom.  He slid his hand in and I placed my hand on top of his.  This works great because he can feel what I am doing and he can feel when I let go.  He actually landed the first flight.  Second flight  I was in the circle with him but he soloed on this flight.  The next three flights I was outside the circle.  However Like I said he was a good RC pilot when he started.   Hel knew oho to fly.  He just had to get used to the control response.

With CL just like RC it really boils down to watching the plane and giving it whatever control it needs to go where you want it to. Having flown both, I would argue that it is even harder in RC to learn that.

You are a lucky man.  When I learned, how much control to use it frequently involved time off for the glue to dry.   My grandson would make it to the first crash and be off to video land.  He loved, and so did my grand daughter, flying the Real Flight simulator I had.  When asked if he wanted to come with me to fly the real thing he said why would I want to do that when I can use the sim?

Ken

[Scott Richlen]

Don and Lou have it right.  Just use a regular handle and have your hand either over their hand (if no bar) or on the bar of the handle.

One thing that can occur in trying to teach an adult is that they can over-power when they (over-)react and negate your attempt to stabilize the plane.  In this case extend either your little finger or your first finger to push on the cable or line.  For instance, if they suddenly give too much "up" control, simply push the down line down with your little finger to re-establish control; likewise, if they suddenly feed in down, extend your first finger to push on the up line and re-establish control.  When NVCL used to participate in the Dulles Airport Plane-Pull, I trained hundreds of kids and adults on our trainers.  By doing this maneuver with my little and first fingers I was able to save our trainer many times.

Oh, and make sure you practice scrambling so you can keep up with your trainee who will be turning (hopefully) but sometimes want to walk around a lot!  Can be exciting!

[L0U CRANE]

(insert)  ---When I learned, how much control to use it frequently involved time off for the glue to dry. ---

Fabulous way to say it! Thanks!   

[Charles Carter]

Thank you gentlemen for your help.

Charles Carter

[Dave Hull]

Sir Charles,

Wishing you success with your training. Maybe you'll have a new flyer in tow when we get together next time?

Dave

[Al Ferraro]

Here is a homemade one that my friend built with EZ-Just handles.
Al

[Ken Culbertson]

Here is a homemade one that my friend built with EZ-Just handles.
Al

Interesting.  I wonder if we could see the same improvement in the pattern that Tennis did when they went to two handed grips.  Probably not but this might help Ted with electrics!

Ken

[john e. holliday]

Quite a few years ago there was a Junior that flew the AMA pattern using both hands.  I wish I could remember names.