News:



  • June 19, 2025, 03:15:55 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Brodak prices  (Read 11689 times)

Offline John Skukalek

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 206
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2023, 04:57:01 PM »
I think it's fair to assume that the increased prices at Brodak are based on their understanding of what is needed for them to continue in business. From there it's up to us.

Offline David_Ruff

  • David Ruff
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 209
  • Retired Army
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2023, 02:49:48 AM »
I just ordered a kit from BMJR.  They currently have a 10% discount going on. 
I ordered a kit from Stan and also from Pat King.  I will have a wait on those as they are custom cut.  But I am not in any hurry.  Still building a Sig Skyray 35.
I use Brodak for many items though.  Got to keep these businesses in business.
Just glad to be here

Offline Marty Hammersmith

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 117
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2023, 05:22:26 AM »
     Brodak needs to make a good profit to keep them from going off into some other product line.  I don't blame them for that.  Also, what competition do they have at this point? There are a handful of individuals who might offer a component or two but they are quickly aging out. Who else in control line offers a complete one stop shop experience? There is a price to be paid for that.
Marty Hammersmith
AMA 6568

Offline doug coursey

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2023, 07:32:34 AM »
     Brodak needs to make a good profit to keep them from going off into some other product line.  I don't blame them for that.  Also, what competition do they have at this point? There are a handful of individuals who might offer a component or two but they are quickly aging out. Who else in control line offers a complete one stop shop experience? There is a price to be paid for that.

I DONT THINK THEY WILL MAKE MORE PROFIT BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL BUY LESS PRODUCTS,SOME OF IT BECAUSE THEY CANT AFFORD IT AND SOME BECAUSE THEY REFUSE TOO
AMA 21449

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1020
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2023, 08:29:30 AM »
Brent, 

Derek Moran has fabricated here a clever narrow detachable  "shoulder block" of sorts to secure the area of the wire during the bend without affecting the wire inside the brass tubing. This should be easy to make a set for 1/8 and 3/32 wire. It kind of reminds me of a flaring block but much more narrow.

I just purchased a Mapp pro torch at Lowes kit at Lowes along with some non leaded silver solder.

We still have to "bite the bullet" and keep Brodak alive, without them where can we go?

Steve

Offline Allen Eshleman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 830
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2023, 09:00:04 AM »
Brodak's prices are high(er) like everything else, but to me their service is impeccable.

Offline Colin McRae

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 723
  • Are we having fun yet??
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2023, 09:36:26 AM »
My personal experience with Brodak is that their products and service has been great. They are closely becoming the only thing in town for comprehensive CL needs. Other vendors are going by the wayside. We need to support them, or the same thing will happen to them.

It is also amazing to me that someone will gladly pay $6 for a gourmet coffee but will not spend the same for an important CL part they may need!

Offline Andre Ming

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 878
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2023, 10:57:29 AM »
What's curious to me is that I'm reading from other sources that there is beginning to be an influx of R/C fliers back into C/L (or just starting with C/L) because of the FAA intrusion and over-regulation that's taking place in their (R/C) sector.

Wouldn't it be great if meaningful numbers came over from R/C to give C/L a boost?

Andre
Searching to find my new place in this hobby!

Online Dave_Trible

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6710
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2023, 11:47:29 AM »
What's curious to me is that I'm reading from other sources that there is beginning to be an influx of R/C fliers back into C/L (or just starting with C/L) because of the FAA intrusion and over-regulation that's taking place in their (R/C) sector.

Wouldn't it be great if meaningful numbers came over from R/C to give C/L a boost?

Andre
Andre this is something I've been saying for a while and have suggested we pursue as a group,  maybe even putting ads in their publications.   Usually 'crickets' was what I got back.   We aren't going to get many kids involved these days.  I have doubts any of my four grandkids will take it seriously.  (still have crossed fingers).   With the RC crowd-and it is still HUGE,  ready-made airplane nuts like us are already there.  Some don't even know what CL is.   Some flew them decades ago.  With the FAA screwing up their activities I think there is a vast pool of possible converts. 


Dave
AMA 20934
FAA Certificate FA3ATY4T94
 Investing in a Gaza resort if the billionaire doesn't take all my social security check

Offline Jim Svitko

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 827
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2023, 11:48:31 AM »
What's curious to me is that I'm reading from other sources that there is beginning to be an influx of R/C fliers back into C/L (or just starting with C/L) because of the FAA intrusion and over-regulation that's taking place in their (R/C) sector.

Wouldn't it be great if meaningful numbers came over from R/C to give C/L a boost?

Andre

In some cases, that is true.  It has happened at our club but only in very small numbers.  Most who do it were CL fliers years ago before they "moved up" to RC.  However, I have seen other retreads give up on it.  The RC market is flooded with ARF or RTF foamies that take little time to get in the air.  That is not always the case with CL.

Many of the RC guys either do not want to build, have no time to build, or they do not care to learn the intricacies of CL.  When they see some of the planes we, the CL guys, bring out, and we show them what it took to get that plane airworthy, they have second thoughts about getting involved. 

Going electric would make it easier on them, if they did not want to mess with engines.  Many of the RC guys still have engines from their involvement years ago but those engines might not have been properly stored and therefore not in great shape.

It would be nice to have more involvement in CL.  With very few younger people getting in, that leaves those who did it once before and want to do it again.  The help is there for them to take advantage of our experience and thereby avoid disasters and other setbacks.

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1020
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #60 on: December 15, 2023, 12:18:49 PM »
Many of the older RC guys where I fly CL have shown interest but when given the opportunity shy away because of the getting dizzy issue and won't try it. Any of the youngsters flying RC are so caught up in the pattern competitiveness and high expense of owning an expensive ARF model or jet they have no use for CL. Additionally none of them have any idea idea how to build a kit.

As for Brodak prices, when the build season begins and I know what models I plan to build I look through my stock and make a list of everything I'll need to complete each model including field equipment if needed. This saves on the overall shipping.

Steve

Offline doug coursey

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 276
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2023, 02:42:30 PM »
I HAVE BOUGHT A LOT FROM BRODAK..I ALSO BOUGHT SOME FROM VINTAGE PERFORMANCE,RSM AND OKIE I HAVE ENOUGH KITS TO LAST ME FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS WORTH OF BUILDING,I ALSO BOUGHT A COUPLE MOTORS FROM DUB JETT AND SOMESUFF FROM MY LOCAL HOBBY SHOP ALTHOUGH HE DOESNT HAVE ANY CONTROL LINE STUFF HE DOES HAVE GLUE AND HARDWARE.
AMA 21449

Online Steve Berry

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 528
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #62 on: December 15, 2023, 04:28:26 PM »
I feel like I'm late tot he party, but....is the Brodak website working for anyone?

I'm trying to get a conversion kit or 2 for some scratch building, but the site seems broken with no links actually working?

Is it just me or has Brodak just shut down?

Steve

Offline David_Ruff

  • David Ruff
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 209
  • Retired Army
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #63 on: December 15, 2023, 04:34:05 PM »
I feel like I'm late tot he party, but....is the Brodak website working for anyone?

I'm trying to get a conversion kit or 2 for some scratch building, but the site seems broken with no links actually working?

Is it just me or has Brodak just shut down?

Steve
Brodak site works fine. Do you run a VPN?  Shut it dowm.
Just glad to be here

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7048
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #64 on: December 15, 2023, 04:34:50 PM »
I feel like I'm late tot he party, but....is the Brodak website working for anyone?

I'm trying to get a conversion kit or 2 for some scratch building, but the site seems broken with no links actually working?

Is it just me or has Brodak just shut down?

Steve
Looks like they are down - I can't get in either and I do not use a vpn.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Online Steve Berry

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 528
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #65 on: December 15, 2023, 04:35:50 PM »
My VPN isn't on, and it's not working on my phone, either.

Rats!

Steve

Offline David_Ruff

  • David Ruff
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 209
  • Retired Army
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #66 on: December 15, 2023, 04:36:29 PM »
Works right now for me.
Just glad to be here

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7048
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #67 on: December 15, 2023, 04:51:23 PM »
Must be a local or regional server down in the chain from here to there.  Tried another browser, same result.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Dave Hull

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2108
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2023, 09:35:59 PM »
You can use a simpler fixture and hold precision tolerances. This one was a replacement for an SV-11. Brazed with silver-braze material using a simple Bernzomatic propane torch. No drama, no trauma.

Offline Juan Valentin

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 590
  • USAF 1969-73 ANG 73-77
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #69 on: December 16, 2023, 08:14:24 AM »
Hello Dave
                      Nice photo`s , I like your jig for getting the horn aligned for brazing. I saved your photos in my docs.
                                                                                                                               Juan

Offline Jim Svitko

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 827
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #70 on: December 16, 2023, 08:31:53 AM »
There are many ways to make a fixture.  An elaborate fixture is nice but not absolutely necessary.  As long as it keeps things properly aligned and in place, and can take the heat, it will work OK.

My fixture is rather crude, consisting of a steel plate and steel angle bolted to the plate to align the parts.  It is not much to look at but it works.  Clamp the steel plate in a vise and it is good to go.

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7048
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2023, 09:44:13 AM »
You can use a simpler fixture and hold precision tolerances. This one was a replacement for an SV-11. Brazed with silver-braze material using a simple Bernzomatic propane torch. No drama, no trauma.
I saved it too.  My next one will be done this way.
Questions, is the wheel collar enough of a heat sink to keep the wood from burning?  Looks like it is.
Does anybody know where we can get those fabulous springs that can be slipped over the bends?  I think they were on the old Veco horns.   The brass clips are prone to slop if you don't glue the horns to the elevator which I never do.
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1020
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #72 on: December 16, 2023, 09:44:55 AM »
It appears by jigging the rod wire vertically in the horn allows the melted metal to nicely flow evenly around the circumference of the wire. I think, however, the biggest achievement is to place bends in the wire and still having freely rotating brass tube bearings.

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1020
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #73 on: December 16, 2023, 09:54:29 AM »

Does anybody know where we can get those fabulous springs that can be slipped over the bends?  I think they were on the old Veco horns.   The brass clips are prone to slop if you don't glue the horns to the elevator which I never do.

Ken,

I need some help here can you provide a photo?

Steve

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7048
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #74 on: December 16, 2023, 10:22:17 AM »
I know, this is one of life's mysteries how they do it without a special jig.  Even a small bend close to the main bend creates a bind.  I have resorted to making the horn wider but that just adds weight.  My limited shop tools means that I have to put the sleeves on before the bend and just hope that I can make the bend without creating a bind.  Putting the sleeve on below the jaws of the vise works but it adds an inch or so to the width of the horn.

Most of my home made horns have been flap horns which are longer.  Only recently have I seen the wisdom of having the horns as close to the fuselage as possible.

Is it a good idea to heat the wire at the bend so that it only bends at the "bend" and doesn't put a shallow bend in the rest of the wire where the sleeve will go?  I worry about the temper of the wire.

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7048
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #75 on: December 16, 2023, 11:34:21 AM »
Ken,

I need some help here can you provide a photo?

Steve
If I had one I would send a pix.  Somewhere in the depths of someone's stash of stuff there is one with springs.  I can't remember the MFG but the horn itself looked very much Veco.  It came with two tightly wound springs that would slip around the bend in the wire.  You used a clip over it.  A brass sleeve is definitely cheaper if you are manufacturing and have the jigs but the spring is the layman's dream for a flap bushing.  You could even take them off if you needed to.  Try that with brass!

Ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC

Online Dave_Trible

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 6710
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #76 on: December 16, 2023, 11:38:55 AM »
I gave up on trying to put on tubes or springs long ago because they will always get buggered up when you bend the wire.  I make plywood 'traps'/bearings that glue to the inside of the fuselage sides and up to the wing once the wing and fuselage is joined.  !/8" is fine.  They don't wear out,  at least with piped airplanes where no oil ever reaches them.  I still haven't seen any issues either with my classic Fox slobber beasts .    You could make them from hardwood or even epoxy on wheel collars to the fuse sides if you notch the TE a little to allow them to fit.

Dave
AMA 20934
FAA Certificate FA3ATY4T94
 Investing in a Gaza resort if the billionaire doesn't take all my social security check

Offline Jim Svitko

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 827
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #77 on: December 16, 2023, 11:59:29 AM »
I slip a section of brass tubing over the horn wire.  This tubing is maybe 1/2 inch long.  Then, I bend that brass strip around the tubing, and JB weld it to the tubing.  You can get a nice, tight fit, and a good bearing surface.  A drop of oil between the tube and the horn wire.  The brass strips then slip into slots in the wing trailing edge or the stab trailing edge.  I never had any problem bending the horn wire after all this, and I use that K&S wire bending tool.

I have not seen those horn springs in a long time.  Yes, they came with the Veco horns.

Offline Marty Hammersmith

  • 24 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 117
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #78 on: December 16, 2023, 02:38:59 PM »
What's curious to me is that I'm reading from other sources that there is beginning to be an influx of R/C fliers back into C/L (or just starting with C/L) because of the FAA intrusion and over-regulation that's taking place in their (R/C) sector.

Wouldn't it be great if meaningful numbers came over from R/C to give C/L a boost?

Andre

I am one of those. I’ve been into R/C since the 1990s. When Remote ID was floated I started thinking about C/L. I’m now in. I have a kit built Sig Akromaster flying. I also have a Ringmaster S-1 from plans built and flying. Both are powered by converted R/C engines. I have a grand total of about 60 flights in control line now. Under construction are plans built Sarpolus Challenger, Jetco Shark 15 and another Sig Akromaster. All will be powered by converted R/C engines. I had no background in control line. The FAA sent me this way.
Marty Hammersmith
AMA 6568

Offline Dave Hull

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 2108
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #79 on: December 17, 2023, 12:01:13 AM »
Follow-ups to the questions:

Fixturing it so the joiner is vertically oriented does make it easier to braze, but it’s not necessary if you have everything else just right. I don’t have any thin silver braze material, so making a loop preform isn’t happening. So, I clean meticulously, then flux everything, then heat the joint and dab the end of the thick brazing rod. It is easy to overdo the amount of material and make a messy job. This one turned out fine. There is a nice even fillet on both sides. Using a close-fit hole in the arm (+.003ish) helps control the capillary braze flow and the effects of gravity. And, if everything is really, really clean you can get the heat on it and watch for the top fillet formation. Then get the heat off immediately. Chances are good that the bottom fillet is complete at that point. The added picture shows the fillet on the opposite side.

The hole thru the fixture block is a firm push-fit for the joiner wire. The collar was used as a precision stop, and only needed because I already had all of the airplane structures built, and I needed to get the arm in exactly the right spot or I would have to start making changes to the elevators. The collar was not intended as a heat sink, nor was it needed.

The horn I showed is a replacement for a defective unit on an SV-11 ARC. It is quite short, but I will use formed brass stock to wrap around it and insert into the stab TE. No tubes required. I used 1/8” music wire for this one. I locally heated the wire where I wanted the bends and formed them hot, then allowed to slowly air-cool. Even annealed, the wire is robust. Since you are actually brazing and not soldering, you will have already heated the center portion of the joiner to the point where it is likely annealed. Be aware that some of the silver brazing rods have a melting point of essentially the annealing temperature of the parts, including A2.  Note that the condition for the A2 drill rod you are likely to buy is fully annealed. So compare the annealed strength of the music wire that of the A2. Finally, remember that the stiffness of the wire is not changed by temper, just the yield point. A2 looks higher according to my table.

If you are in hurry to build or finish a plane, then paying someone else for a completed piece like a horn is usually worth it. If you can’t get exactly what you need, then making one is often your only choice. Of course, if your shop is already filled with tools and materials you have collected over the years and just waiting around to be used for something, then making your own parts may be also be cost effective--as long as you enjoy doing it. If you don’t, then by all means order the parts from Brodak!

Dave

Offline David_Ruff

  • David Ruff
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 209
  • Retired Army
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2023, 04:05:16 AM »
In my Brodak orders I have received half of the flat fee back so I am really only paying about $7.50 for shipping.
The refund shows up in my credit card account. They also send an email showing the refund.
Just glad to be here

Offline David_Ruff

  • David Ruff
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • ****
  • Posts: 209
  • Retired Army
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #81 on: December 17, 2023, 04:33:19 AM »
I am one of those. I’ve been into R/C since the 1990s. When Remote ID was floated I started thinking about C/L. I’m now in. I have a kit built Sig Akromaster flying. I also have a Ringmaster S-1 from plans built and flying. Both are powered by converted R/C engines. I have a grand total of about 60 flights in control line now. Under construction are plans built Sarpolus Challenger, Jetco Shark 15 and another Sig Akromaster. All will be powered by converted R/C engines. I had no background in control line. The FAA sent me this way.
Yep.  The FAA ruined RC hobby in my opinion.  The govt is good at that.  I understand that a few bozos with quad copter drones ruined it for all of us.  But maybe if the govt would have found those folks and fined the Hell out of them it would have fixed the problem.  Instead the govt found a new revenue stream. 
Just glad to be here

Offline Steve Dwyer

  • 2020 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 1020
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #82 on: December 17, 2023, 08:22:07 AM »
Here's method of installing the brass bearing AFTER making the bends. I helped a friend do this on his Imitation build. He had bought the joiner horns without the bearings, after some discussion I suggested installing a "split bearing" and then fixing the brass strip tab that is installed into the stabilizer and wing trailing edge. The Imitation is a profile so the bearings are fully exposed unlike with a full fuse model and needed to be secured.  We found a slightly oversized brass tubing diameter and using a X-Acto blade we sliced it longitudinally filing the edges to achieve a nice wrap closing the seam at the proper diameter. Next the tube was spread and placed onto the joiner wire. He positioned the narrower brass strap over the bearing tube and placed a drop of oil between the bearing and wire before carefully soldering to secure the tab to the bearing tube. It actually looked pretty good except for the unevenness of the solder but that was hidden by the adjacent edge of the elevator and flap. We probably could have used JB weld instead with equally good results and better looking than the solder. This method is a little time consuming but hey what's more important right!

Steve

Online Ken Culbertson

  • 25 supporter
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 7048
Re: Brodak prices
« Reply #83 on: December 17, 2023, 11:01:53 AM »
Here's method of installing the brass bearing AFTER making the bends. I helped a friend do this on his Imitation build. He had bought the joiner horns without the bearings, after some discussion I suggested installing a "split bearing" and then fixing the brass strip tab that is installed into the stabilizer and wing trailing edge. The Imitation is a profile so the bearings are fully exposed unlike with a full fuse model and needed to be secured.  We found a slightly oversized brass tubing diameter and using a X-Acto blade we sliced it longitudinally filing the edges to achieve a nice wrap closing the seam at the proper diameter. Next the tube was spread and placed onto the joiner wire. He positioned the narrower brass strap over the bearing tube and placed a drop of oil between the bearing and wire before carefully soldering to secure the tab to the bearing tube. It actually looked pretty good except for the unevenness of the solder but that was hidden by the adjacent edge of the elevator and flap. We probably could have used JB weld instead with equally good results and better looking than the solder. This method is a little time consuming but hey what's more important right!

Steve
I like that!

ken
AMA 15382
If it is not broke you are not trying hard enough.
USAF 1968-1974 TAC


Advertise Here
Tags: