Author Topic: bf 109 in prime (Read 22456 times)

Randy Powell · « **Reply #50 on:** July 11, 2011, 02:01:58 PM »

You guys are mean. Steve buys plenty of planes. And he flies them, too.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #51 on:** July 11, 2011, 02:26:15 PM »

Randy,
hey at least I deflected the attention and harassment away from myself for a bit,,

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #52 on:** July 11, 2011, 02:38:12 PM »

I have never taken as long to build a plane as Mark. But I will admit to be a slow starter...

Steve

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #53 on:** July 11, 2011, 02:39:34 PM »

Steve,,,
well played my good man, well played

Scott B. Riese · « **Reply #54 on:** July 11, 2011, 03:38:29 PM »

OK....Four Stroke?!!? com-on
Mag 53....Please
LA-46....KISS
Three Years.....priceless

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #55 on:** January 19, 2012, 09:44:11 AM »

Ok just for Wayne,, cause I know he doesnt beleive me,,

here is proof,, the picture was taken today,,

Ok working on this again realyly shows me how far my building has come, there are some real ,, shall we say issues that I would have never covered today, but experience teaches,, so, maybe the next one will be better,
my goal is to finish and fly the thing with minimal fuss from this point,, and just live with some of the things,,
as Randy likes to say, a paint job is never finished, only abandoned,,

at least I am pretty sure it will be a reasonable weight,, and look good in pictures,, LOL

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #56 on:** January 19, 2012, 10:05:46 AM »

I used to have this problem in my job doing software. I was doing embedded stuff, and doing it well because of my experience as a circuit designer even though I'm more than half self-taught with software. So I'd pick up something I hadn't touched for a few years and my first thought would be "Who wrote this c**p?!?!?"

You just have to treat it like you were given the plane by a friend and decide how far back you need to go (and before you get into it -- Don't think you have to treat it like you were me and given a plane by a friend. Or at least not that plane).

Randy Powell · « **Reply #57 on:** January 19, 2012, 10:35:59 AM »

Mark,

Address the issues as best you can. You will be happier in the end. The thing will be a good flier with all the Pat Johnston influence running around.. Make it look pretty and use that cool paint scheme you came up with.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #58 on:** January 19, 2012, 11:09:22 AM »

@ Tim,,
no official comment,, though your perspective about treating it like someone gave it to me is valid,, however coming from YOU? LOL,,

@ Randy, I certainly wont be ignoring anything, but its one of those,, do I go backwards, or just live with it. Weight looks really decent,, so I dont want to compromise that,, and just between you and me,, the camo paint job will likely mask some of the things that are bothering me. I also think that if it isnt as nice as the avenger,, I will be a bit more brave with it LOL, in other words, maybe I can get below my 8 foot manuever ceiling LOL,,

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #59 on:** January 19, 2012, 11:21:22 AM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on January 19, 2012, 11:09:22 AM

I certainly wont be ignoring anything, but its one of those,, do I go backwards, or just live with it. Weight looks really decent,, so I dont want to compromise that,, and just between you and me,, the camo paint job will likely mask some of the things that are bothering me. I also think that if it isnt as nice as the avenger,, I will be a bit more brave with it LOL, in other words, maybe I can get below my 8 foot manuever ceiling LOL,,

Paint it International Orange and yellow. Then every time you're in the downward leg of a square maneuver you can think about how much better it'd look in tiny little bits. That'll help you get closer to the ground.

I tried this with a Nobler (dumb idea, to make a full-fuselage plane for my CL comeback -- it's hanging up, waiting for me to be a better flyer). But I screwed up -- International Orange and black actually looks pretty good.

wwwarbird · « **Reply #60 on:** January 19, 2012, 07:02:09 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on January 19, 2012, 09:44:11 AM

Ok just for Wayne,, cause I know he doesnt beleive me,,

here is proof,, the picture was taken today,,

Ok working on this again realyly shows me how far my building has come, there are some real ,, shall we say issues that I would have never covered today, but experience teaches,, so, maybe the next one will be better,
my goal is to finish and fly the thing with minimal fuss from this point,, and just live with some of the things,,
as Randy likes to say, a paint job is never finished, only abandoned,,

at least I am pretty sure it will be a reasonable weight,, and look good in pictures,, LOL

HOLY COW THERE IT IS!!!

Looks great from here Mark, keep on truckin'! I don't see a date on the photo, but I'll take your word for it...this time.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #61 on:** January 20, 2012, 05:56:30 AM »

WHAT!! An upstanding young man like Mark and you doubt his word? Looks good Mark and I will look forward to the results. You will probably be done before I get my plane flying. I keep getting distracted by other planes and family.

Dennis Adamisin · « **Reply #62 on:** January 20, 2012, 07:20:02 AM »

Don't stop now!

Bill Little · « **Reply #63 on:** January 20, 2012, 11:54:13 AM »

Mark,

Listen closely! Hit it with another coat of primer, sand well, paint and fly! 6 months from now you will not notice any little flaws and you will have the plane trimmed pretty good. A point to remember is that they are not all going to be 20 pointers.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #64 on:** January 20, 2012, 12:00:59 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on January 20, 2012, 11:54:13 AM

Mark,

Listen closely! Hit it with another coat of primer, sand well, paint and fly! 6 months from now you will not notice any little flaws and you will have the plane trimmed pretty good. A point to remember is that they are not all going to be 20 pointers.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

yeah but,, but,,, sigh, I know,, LOL
and I need to fly closer to the ground, maybe a less perfect paint job,, sigh

Bill Little · « **Reply #65 on:** January 20, 2012, 12:11:30 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on January 20, 2012, 12:00:59 PM

yeah but,, but,,, sigh, I know,, LOL
and I need to fly closer to the ground, maybe a less perfect paint job,, sigh

HI Mark,

I know you are a professional painter so "flaws" are not in your vocabulary. Still, this one can get a pass on that. It's been around to long getting finished.

Build a "throw away" profile now. A Flite Steak, Sky Ray, Tomahawk, something along those lines, or draw up your own, and work on getting the bottoms down. Derek also told me that lowering the "tops" to 45* helps get the bottoms down. You can do it, you just have to "experience" it.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Randy Powell · « **Reply #66 on:** January 20, 2012, 12:32:07 PM »

Hey, Mark gets his bottoms down sometimes. It's just the hop at the bottom as he realizes where the ground is that needs work.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #67 on:** January 20, 2012, 01:00:03 PM »

Hey when I flew Steve's Kiss twister, I didnt bounce my bottoms nearly as much, do you think that could be cause it was HIS airplane,instead of the Avenger? lol

Bill Little · « **Reply #68 on:** January 20, 2012, 01:03:32 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on January 20, 2012, 01:00:03 PM

Hey when I flew Steve's Kiss twister, I didnt bounce my bottoms nearly as much, do you think that could be cause it was HIS airplane,instead of the Avenger? lol

As I am sure you have been told, flying a gorgeous model like your avenger is NOT the way to learn bottoms and such.

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

john e. holliday · « **Reply #69 on:** January 21, 2012, 11:23:35 AM »

It does make a difference when flying a gorgeous plane that has hours in the construction and finish. Flew what I thought was one of the best patterns I had ever flown with the Primary Force one year. In fact a well known person that has judged at contests thought I had a great pattern. Said they had never seen me fly that well. I felt great myself after I had finished the clover and was waiting for fuel to run out. Then I seen my score sheet. That is when I said it aint worth the effort as the next round I did not hit any bottoms or inter sections. In fact I was all over the place. In fact the person that thought I had such a first round asked me what was wrong. I told her I was just having fun and did not care about winning anymore. Second round score was over a 100 points better than first.

Now Mark since I hijacked your thread, I am waiting on pictures of where the plane is at in construction.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #70 on:** January 21, 2012, 01:00:34 PM »

Quote from: Bill Little on January 20, 2012, 11:54:13 AM

Mark,
6 months from now you will not notice any little flaws and you will have the plane trimmed pretty good.
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

Bill,,Not true,, I still see the issues in my Avenger every time I fly it, or look at it,, I cant forget that stuff,,
HOWEVER, a few nice plaques for higher finishes in contests help one overlook them LOL,,

Some zen moments going on here today,, ( mostly cause I went out and looked at the snow in the driveway,, the sandpaper looks a lot more inviting,, )

Richard Walbridge · « **Reply #71 on:** January 22, 2012, 03:15:45 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on March 24, 2011, 01:04:09 PM

Well the parts for the exhaust stack got here last night, they turned out better than expected by far! Thanks Pat!!!

Here is a picture of them, they are cut from 1/16" ply, there are three parts that make up the center core with another part that closes off the stack opening. Then there is a spacer outside that, then the "shields" that go outside that. also attached a snap of what the actual stack looks like. It looks like with minimal sanding to round the exterior, these will make a very presentable stack simulation,, I am jazzed up now!!!

Not too bad there Mark!! It makes me almost want to build another Spitfire so this central-cal bloke can get'cha with....Nice job so far!

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #72 on:** February 22, 2012, 11:39:58 PM »

ok I am reviving this thread, mostly for WWarbird, Wayne,, here take this,, its almost sanded now,,

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #73 on:** February 23, 2012, 08:50:21 AM »

Nice hammer. Do you knock off the high spots? Give me some tips.

Bill Little · « **Reply #74 on:** February 23, 2012, 09:31:31 AM »

Quote from: john e. holliday on January 21, 2012, 11:23:35 AM

It does make a difference when flying a gorgeous plane that has hours in the construction and finish. Flew what I thought was one of the best patterns I had ever flown with the Primary Force one year. In fact a well known person that has judged at contests thought I had a great pattern. Said they had never seen me fly that well. I felt great myself after I had finished the clover and was waiting for fuel to run out. Then I seen my score sheet. That is when I said it aint worth the effort as the next round I did not hit any bottoms or inter sections. In fact I was all over the place. In fact the person that thought I had such a first round asked me what was wrong. I told her I was just having fun and did not care about winning anymore. Second round score was over a 100 points better than first.

Now Mark since I hijacked your thread, I am waiting on pictures of where the plane is at in construction.

Hi Doc,

I have found it to be a two edged sword. I can go out and just have fun, or I can really try to burn in a pattern. Scores don't seem to differ much. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower. So I finally decided to just relax and have fun,

BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

wwwarbird · « **Reply #75 on:** February 23, 2012, 11:01:56 PM »

Man that's a cool model, glad you're back on it Mark.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #76 on:** February 24, 2012, 08:29:11 AM »

Hey Mark, has the test flights been done yet?

Now don't let me rush you as Pat may get after me and the P-47. Finally after numerous bottles of liquid, I have a canopy that looks halfway decent.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #77 on:** February 24, 2012, 09:29:20 AM »

Doc,
ya better behave,., I talk to Pat all the time, I may just let him know you are slackin on the P-47,,

lol
actually now I need to set it aside so I can get the Avenger ready for VSC, oh and I need to make a couple repairs to Jessicas Ringmaster since she is acting interested in flying again ( she is goiing to VSC with me

)

Howard Rush · « **Reply #78 on:** February 24, 2012, 05:32:27 PM »

Your 109 is at about the same stage as my new dog. I know better than to post pictures, because people will drag them up three years from now and pester me about slow building.

I'm glad that Jessica is getting interested again. We've missed her.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #79 on:** February 24, 2012, 05:48:57 PM »

Thanks Howard,,
I have no idea what makes you think the nice guys on here would harrass someone about taking to long to build a plane,, oh wait,, I forgot about Wayne and Randy,, never mind,,,,,,

Jessica is actually going to ride with me to VSC this year, hoping a week around all us strange people will further corrupt her,,

john e. holliday · « **Reply #80 on:** February 25, 2012, 08:17:40 AM »

Hope to meet you two in a couple of weeks.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #81 on:** March 18, 2013, 12:02:38 PM »

Quote from: Paul Walker on March 23, 2011, 02:08:18 PM

Mark,
Where are you putting the battery in the full fuselage version?

Paul

well,, rather than start a new thread,, ( like the "warning" suggested, I elected to reserect this old one, mostly because of this post by Paul

my building schedule has been hampered by working out of town for 6 months,, remodeling the kitchen, repairing the deer inflicted damage on the daughters car, and then recovering from a bout of pnemonia,, so in order to have a new plane for this year, I took the 109 down, and started looking it over again,, ,,,
and debating,,
and measuring,
and decided that if I left it as a glow airframe, it would never get finished, ( I decided years ago that my PA program was going electric as soon as I quit crashing so dang often, which I have,, knock on wood) so ,,
long story short, I got out the dremel,, and sawdust happened,,

its going to fly this year,, as an electric, so,, sorry Wayne,, it had to happen
pictures to follow,, if you want to see what I did to hack this into an electric please let me know,, its ,, well, its not for the faint of heart LOL

wwwarbird · « **Reply #82 on:** March 18, 2013, 01:39:06 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on March 18, 2013, 12:02:38 PM

pictures to follow,, if you want to see what I did to hack this into an electric please let me know,, its ,, well, its not for the faint of heart LOL

Well Mark, let's check it out. Can't look any worse than boring a model full of lightening holes!

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #83 on:** March 18, 2013, 01:42:31 PM »

Quote from: wwwarbird on March 18, 2013, 01:39:06 PM

Well Mark, let's check it out. Can't look any worse than boring a model full of lightening holes!

funny you should mention that,, the first step

cutting out a bunch of wood,,,,

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #84 on:** March 18, 2013, 01:50:51 PM »

ok fine,,
let the carnage begin,,
I apologize in advance for not using planking,, or polyester resin,,
THe prime reason I am doing this, if I had not , it would have hung on the wall for a long time waiting,,
there is just to many practical reasons for me to use Epower,, most of which revolve around being able to actually practice,,
so, without further ado,,
let the carnage begin,,,,,
1 using dremel router bit, cut back the motor mount rails in the engine bay. ( Pat my front end is built just like you do yours,, )
2 after sanding everything as smooth as I could, I epoxied some carbon tow into the nose. The main reason I did this was because my doublers and the mount rails stop short of where the mount will eventually live, so the carbon ties all that together,, Note I inflated a balloon in the nose, and taped ablock into the balloon to force it into the corners. A trick I devised building my quickie fuel tank bays,, makes all the corners smooth and keeps things together,, think redneck vacuum baggin'
also, the spinner in this pict,, I may end up trying to find a spinner like this,, held on to backplate by two screws, and then cut the point off to replicate the 109 spinner which on some versions had a cannon through it. it would also let cooling air into the motor,,
3 showing carbon after balloon removed
4 showing fiewall/mount, 1/8 ply which I laminated with 3 layers of 2 oz cloth on each side to toughen it up
5 shows mount installed, I used the spinner backplate to set the depth and alignment of the motor mount in the fuse
6 the mount needs to be stable,, very very stable,, so this filler goes between the spinner ring and the mount to tie it all together, it has to clear the locater pins on the cowling,and also clear the mount screws . that accounts for the strange shape.
7 shows filler installed. Now I need to do some bracing behind the mount..

I am also seriously considering on THIS model using a rear bearing plate, since I cannot tie the mount plate in as effectivly as I would were this a dedicated electric model from the outset, I think it will help keep things together, Now to fine a flanged bearing that will fit the screw on prop adapter ( which fits the back end of the motor)

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #85 on:** March 18, 2013, 01:51:41 PM »

and second batch ,,,

Glenn (Gravitywell) Reach · « **Reply #86 on:** March 18, 2013, 03:10:23 PM »

Thats a very cool trick with the balloon....never would have thought of that!

Randy Powell · « **Reply #87 on:** March 18, 2013, 03:21:06 PM »

He's baaaackk!

wwwarbird · « **Reply #88 on:** March 18, 2013, 05:13:39 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on March 18, 2013, 03:21:06 PM

He's baaaackk!

Well, if electrons are what it takes to get the 'ol 109 finished, so be it. Glad to see it back on the bench Mark!

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #89 on:** March 18, 2013, 06:07:13 PM »

I can't wait to see that in the air.

Randy Powell · « **Reply #90 on:** March 18, 2013, 09:08:39 PM »

An electrified 109. Maybe a little speaker and you can use recorded engine noises.

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #91 on:** March 18, 2013, 10:50:45 PM »

I will just get my grandaughter to stand by the judges and make vroom vroom noises,, should be worth a few bonus points on the old score sheet too

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #92 on:** March 18, 2013, 10:53:47 PM »

Incidently, a bit of self promotion here,,
since this build has been a rather,, ahh,, prolonged one?

here are links to the other phases of the operation,,,, if you are so inclined,, ( preceded by the general topic of the thread)

inst panel
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=7403.0

pre-assembled for photo
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=7616.0

updates
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=7879.0

all in one peice
http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=8144.0

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #93 on:** March 18, 2013, 11:47:07 PM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on March 18, 2013, 09:08:39 PM

An electrified 109. Maybe a little speaker and you can use recorded engine noises.

It should be a feature of the ESC. Just get into CastleLink and select R-1800, O-290, Allison, Warner, etc., and get your engine sounds out to a connector that'll drive a speaker.

john e. holliday · « **Reply #94 on:** March 19, 2013, 07:59:33 AM »

Looking good Mark. Guess like me it is keeping the mind off VSC.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #95 on:** March 19, 2013, 05:27:57 PM »

Quote from: Mark Scarborough on January 20, 2012, 01:00:03 PM

Hey when I flew Steve's Kiss twister, I didnt bounce my bottoms nearly as much, do you think that could be cause it was HIS airplane,instead of the Avenger? lol

Apparently, flying the "KISS!" got Tim's bottoms down. At least one of them, once upon a time.

I am still hoping that he learned to set the engine with the tacho every flight, because it matters. I'm not sure why different engines or setups are like that, but some need it, and some don't. I suspect it has something to do with marginal vs. abundance of "power". $:-\$ Steve

PS: I think 'trim' has a lot to do with 'hip-hops' or "bouncing" the bottoms. Maybe more nose weight or different handle spacing?

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #96 on:** March 19, 2013, 05:31:57 PM »

Quote from: Steve Helmick on March 19, 2013, 05:27:57 PM

Apparently, flying the "KISS!" got Tim's bottoms down. At least one of them, once upon a time.

I am still hoping that he learned to set the engine with the tacho every flight, because it matters. I'm not sure why different engines or setups are like that, but some need it, and some don't. I suspect it has something to do with marginal vs. abundance of "power". $:-\$ Steve

I learned it matters with the engine on the KISS, and the Tower 40 that I'm running now (on two different planes, by an odd circumstance).

I also learned that to trim an airplane so I like it I need to convince Steve Helmick that it belongs to him long enough for him to trim it, then take it back. I just haven't figured out how to do that yet.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #97 on:** March 19, 2013, 05:44:45 PM »

Quote from: Tim Wescott on March 19, 2013, 05:31:57 PM

I learned it matters with the engine on the KISS, and the Tower 40 that I'm running now (on two different planes, by an odd circumstance).

I also learned that to trim an airplane so I like it I need to convince Steve Helmick that it belongs to him long enough for him to trim it, then take it back. I just haven't figured out how to do that yet.

It usually takes me a couple of years to get one trimmed right, Tim, and it doesn't seem to matter who I buy it from!

For example, at the end of last season, I came up with a much better propeller than my current ride arrived with, AND moved the CG forward with a 1 oz GP spinner weight. And of course, I flew the KISSer for years and trim was continually evolving, as I learned what I liked and wanted it to do differently.

I was going to start a new plane today, but Mike called and needed me to 'launch' his new eProfile for a few flights. No purchase price was mentioned, thankfully.

Steve

Mark Scarborough · « **Reply #98 on:** March 19, 2013, 06:35:31 PM »

Quote from: Steve Helmick on March 19, 2013, 05:44:45 PM

I was going to start a new plane today, but Mike called and needed me to 'launch' his new eProfile for a few flights. No purchase price was mentioned, thankfully. Steve

LOL,, that right there is priceless,,

oh wait,, I made a funny,,,,

as to trim and bouncing bottoms,, lord I could run with that,, but,,,
seriously, my Avenger and I bounce bottoms usually as a result of Mark saying,, "holy crap that was the ground get away from there!!!!" and then follows with a boing boing, flight plan,,
but its getting better,, I am not as nervous about it as I used to,, I just need a darn airplane I can fly locally,, off grass, so I can actually practice,, the 109 will hopefully fill that bill,,,

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #99 on:** March 19, 2013, 11:32:24 PM »

"I just need a darn airplane I can fly locally,, off grass, so I can actually practice,, the 109 will hopefully fill that bill,,,"

Wouldn't one of those P-40 proviles (sic) work for that, especially if you convert it to a P-40E? P-40E, get it?

Sienna (sp?) looks well in that one picture. I'd like to get my ankles nipped again this season. I made good friends with a Jack Russell last year at Fall Fallies. A weiner dog should be easier! I'll put in an extra box of dog biscuits.

Steve