AMA C.L.P.A. (CL Stunt) Classes Question

[Hoss Cain]

Way back before dirt, '60s until about 1973 I flew competition stunt. With USAF duties and then being very Junior, Seniority wise, as a United Air Lines pilot and not being able to attend all contests, especially distant ones, I never really was a "name". However for a while, '63-'68, in the Lake Jackson, TX to San Antonio, to Del Rio, I was usually 1st or 2nd for about 4 years.  Then In the Chicago-Land area I also had some 4 years doing same, 1968-'72.

In those days there was AMA "OPEN" class which my age placed me there. Very good, No problems. 

Now here I am about to start trying again to fly CL Stunt. Again I will not be at all the events, but hope to be at Brodak for Scale and Stunt, then to the Nats for same. So here is/are my question/s??

What Stunt class should I enter? I don't care to be in the bottom classes, and I will for sure be in the bottom in the upper classes. 

Having had experience long ago, I don't care to possibly be ahead of beginners or relative newer entrants. OTOH, it wold be very naive to try to be competitive at the top class if the PAMPA Classes are what is being flown. If only AMA "Open'' is being flown then the question is answered. Frankly I don't really understand all this PAMPA -- AMA Jive mix.

Any good illustrations would be appreciated. Happy 2012 CL Stunt flying. 

[bill bischoff]

If you can fly the entire pattern, you are above beginner. If your score is typically below 400, you are intermediate. 400-500, advanced, over 500, expert. If you enter a class that you are too good for, everyone will tell you! If you enter a class that you are not quite up to, no harm, no foul, you can enter a different class next time. It may take a couple of contests to see where you belong. I'd say enter advanced to start with, and see how it goes.

BTW, were you associated with AeroSports Hobbies and the Red Barons club in the early 70's?

[Balsa Butcher]

The only thing I can add to what Bill said is fly for a local expert or advanced flier who is a current competitor. He will be able to give you a good idea as to what class you should enter just by watching you fly your pattern. On another note: Why limit yourself to only two contests? Enter a few local contests to shake off the dust.  

[Bill Little]

Hi Hoss,

I may be wrong, but only the NATS are flown by "Age Groups", Open/Senior/Junior.  Advanced is now an "Official" class at the NATS.

The PAMPA Classes of Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, Expert are now official AMA classes.  PAMPA, decades ago, developed these classes to help promote attendance and participation at local meets.  This has been a very successful program, IMHO.

You "sound" like an Advanced pilot on the local level.  There are plenty of Expert pilots in the Houston area.  Have one critique your flying as has been pointed out above.  That will give you a starting point for your first contests back.

Best wishes!
BIG Bear
RNMM/AMM

[Brian Massey]

As an intermediate flyer hoping to move up to advanced sometime in 2012, here's my thoughts; if your pattern is flown only somewhat smoothly, with "recognizable" shapes, and bottoms consistently high (in or above 6-10 foot zone), you should probably enter intermediate. Better shapes, and bottoms closer to the 5 ft mark, enter advanced. If shapes are spot on and consistant along with bottoms at 4.9 feet then come here to the West coast and fly with Dave Fitzgerald, Paul Walker and Ted Fancher  . Back in intermediate you will find most contests are won with scores in the low to mid 400's. Advanced is won with high 400 low 500 scores. If you want to win Expert, better be really high 500's. But don't go by scores alone, each judge and area will be different. As stated by Bill and Pete, have good flyers watch you, and enter a few local contests; you'll know very quickly.

BTW, a friend of my Dad was a pilot for Continental way back when; I can still remember him saying that there are only two kinds of luggage; carry on and lost. (Is that an old pilot joke?)

Good luck at the contests!

Brian

[jim ivey]

enter and do the best u can.   good luck

[Hoss Cain]

If you can fly the entire pattern, you are above beginner. If your score is typically below 400, you are intermediate. 400-500, advanced, over 500, expert. If you enter a class that you are too good for, everyone will tell you! If you enter a class that you are not quite up to, no harm, no foul, you can enter a different class next time. It may take a couple of contests to see where you belong. I'd say enter advanced to start with, and see how it goes.

BTW, were you associated with AeroSports Hobbies and the Red Barons club in the early 70's?

First, Thanks to everyone for offering all this excellent information. There is not much CL competition in this area, but I hopefully will be ready to give it a try comes the Spring and a couple events open up.

TO: Mr Bill B.:   Yes I was associated with Aero Sports. I owned it. There were a couple years that I sort of "leased" it out, rather tricky, but the new "manager??" soon became past bankrupt so I came back, got it into profitable status and sold it out like a "Fire-Sale". Venture Hobby received most of Aero Sports. It was fun, but there were too many things I needed to do to run a Hobby Shop when the need was not there.

I started the Red Barons before I opened Aero Sports. We had a great time and ran a number of CL events. I guess the RBs just faded away. After about 1975 I was very busy with RC, USAF Reserve, being the D-VI Contest Coordinator, and after 1979 to1981, being the Dist. AMA VP, along with a number of moves up and down at UAL as that management coud never decide how to run an airline, and have not learned yet. 

Thanks for remembering. 

[Brett Buck]

There is not much CL competition in this area,....

  What? Near Houston??! It's one of the hotbeds.

    Brett

[Tim Wescott]

  What? Near Houston??! It's one of the hotbeds.

I don't know Houston, but there's a "local club" forum, which mentions Houston in one of the entries.  Browse to here: http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?board=19.0 -- you should find something.

[Tom Niebuhr]

Hoss,
Come join us at our fun fly in Dallas on New Years day. You might even get to see Dave Ek try to fly another ceiling fan.

There are some very good flyers in the ouston area. Richard Oliver, Frank Williams, Les Demmett, all in the general area.

[john e. holliday]

Hey Hoss, take it from experience.  I flew Intermediate at the NATS for too many years trying to be the top dog.   My scores were in the low 400's if I got that good.   It seemed every time there were what I called the ringers that came down and flew Int.   The winners usually had score in the very high 400 if not in the low 500's.   Of course when you place in the top three in Int you have the opportunity to fly in Advance after you pay the fees.   I don't fly Adv at the Nats as I don't fly that well and as long as I can score inthe 400's I will not fly Int again.   Even in Adv there are some Exp fliers in the class at the NATS as they don't want to compete against the Open class.   Those in Open, Senior and Junior try to win their age division so they can try for the Walker Cup/Trophy.   I would suggest you try Intermediate for your first NATS and see how you do.   Then if you win by a blow out score you can go enter Adv or Open depending on your score.   Also don't get disappointed if you don't do as well as you would like.   Anyway the comaradery and fun will out weigh the downs side. 

[Hoss Cain]

Hey Hoss, take it from experience. //SNIP//.   
Also don't get disappointed if you don't do as well as you would like.   Anyway the camaraderie and fun will out weigh the downs side. 

Thanks again to all for the kind advice. John, your last sentence says it all. The camaraderie is always the best of aeromodeling. I was never that competitive so as to forget what fun was all about. I really am looking forward to "Coming Home," and that was always CL flying, mostly stunt.
If no family member breaks a leg this Spring, I do look forward to getting a couple machines flying within the next couple months.
See Ya'll!

[Bill Little]

Thanks again to all for the kind advice. John, your last sentence says it all. The camaraderie is always the best of aeromodeling. I was never that competitive so as to forget what fun was all about. I really am looking forward to "Coming Home," and that was always CL flying, mostly stunt.
If no family member breaks a leg this Spring, I do look forward to getting a couple machines flying within the next couple months.
See Ya'll!

Hi Hoss,

I really want to be emphatic about getting together with one of the Expert Pilots in the Houston Area.  It will do many good things for you.  You will find out what to enter to begin with and they can help you improve greatly.  For Real.

Bill

[Hoss Cain]

Hi Hoss,

I really want to be emphatic about getting together with one of the Expert Pilots in the Houston Area.  It will do many good things for you.  You will find out what to enter to begin with and they can help you improve greatly.  For Real.

Bill

OK, I promise to do so. I have to get a true stunt machine ready so I can give it a real try. I should have one of my old original MIGs built and ready to fly by middle of March. Two by mid April.
Over at Scobee Field where the real CL takes place there is a Ringmaster event usually in April and a bigger event in May. Hope to get over there early March.
Thanks again for the push.