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Author Topic: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!  (Read 6734 times)

Offline dave siegler

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AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« on: October 22, 2009, 05:56:47 PM »
I just got my model aviation and noticed a large article about EAA's kid venture.  Being a multi year volunteer up at Kidventure, I read the article  intrest.  It became clear that the control line portion of Kidventure was not mentioned at all.  Wow. 

The club that does the RC portion of the event wrote a glowing article on all the stuff going on EXCEPT the fact that the control line guys flew over 2000 training flights, in some pretty wild wind conditions.  Most of the time we had 2 circles going, with kids waiting to fly.  And rather than use a flight simulator and an sir show to introduce model aviation, we put the handle in their hand an let them fly a real airplane.  Very nice I think.  We few many more times the kids then the RC guys could, just because we could turn around a flight in 3 or 4 minutes.

I know that this isn't a contest but there are a lot of AMA members that spend the whole week up there.  They are flying pitting fixing crashed airplanes.  Also SIG has donated a lot of time and material to this event.  Why would you not mention their efforts? 

Mind you we we not at the other end of the event, the flight areas were adjacent to each other, and did not fly over the crowd. 

Mr Lund, we are part of the same organization.  I fly a lot of RC as well as CL stunt and combat, and I have nothing but positive to say about what your do, but would it hurt to even mention control line?  Clearly you have some agenda here.

Dave Siegler
AMA 720731
Dave Siegler
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Alan Hahn

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2009, 06:10:59 PM »
As I recall (and I may be wrong), the CL part isn't officially an AMA event. I think there is some "history" there, and thankfully I am not really aware of it!

So that may be one thing!

Online Bob Hunt

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2009, 07:23:12 PM »
Just a couple of questions: Did anyone write up and submit an article about it? Did anyone call AMA/Model Aviation and ask if they would accept coverage if it were submitted?

Guys, when it comes to CL coverage in the AMA magazine you need to submit articles or at least call the MA office and ask if they want/need coverage. Everyone expects "AMA" to do something. Well, when it comes to CL in AMA, YOU are AMA!

If we as a group are not willing to do the work, we cannot expect anyone else to do it for us. This is what frustrated me during my tenure as Aeromodeling Editor at Model Aviation. I kept hearing that AMA wouldn't "cover" control line. The truth is that I received extremely few articles from CL modelers. Don't expect AMA to grow our part of the hobby unless you take ownership of the fact that you are AMA. Want more CL coverage? Write something and submit it. I cannot guarantee that all CL submissions will be used in the magazine, in just the same manner that not all RC submissions are accepted. There must first be quality writing and photography.
 
It seems to me that it is just far easier for us to grouse about how AMA is screwing us instead of finding out how we can help ourselves and then doing the required work.

Bob Hunt
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Offline dave siegler

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2009, 08:17:28 PM »
Bob, Great  I will write something up next year.  

I only had 3/4 day up there this year, and I fly or pit about 3hrs without a break each day and don't have a lot of pictures from this year.  I will make a point to spend some time gathering info next summer.  Control line at Kidventure has been mentioned in the past when you were the editor and that was great.  If I write something, I will be sure to mention the RC guys..... And the Rockets, Kites etc.  Because it is the AMA not the ARCMA.  It is stupid to get in a turf war.  All things that fly are cool.

I am not grousing about the AMA, just the author.  If you were writing about model aviation at Kidventure and had a Novel 061's buzzing literally 30 feet from your pilot station all week, would you not say something?  One picture even?  That isn't being responsible, or he has a giant axe to grind.     The RC guys don't even talk to us even when we try to engage them.  Makes me want to start up an F2d (nah) right when their air show program starts.

There is some competition for space at EAA. The control line area has been in the buffer zone between the full scale helis and the RC flight line.  The downwash is real bad.   I know the RC guys want more space, and I know there have been some complaining.

It would be better if we all worked together, no that would make too much sense.  
Dave Siegler
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Online Bob Hunt

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2009, 08:26:49 PM »
No argument there.

Bob

Alan Hahn

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2009, 09:08:00 PM »
Well when you read the article, you see it is basically about the author's own club affiliations.

Several years ago, when I twice spent 3 or 4 days at KidVenture, we were a completely separate enterprise from all the other modeling that was going on. I don't think we tended to mention their work either in what articles I read (I don't remember if we we in MA then either actually). And like I hinted at before, there seemed to be AMA issues in the background. I don't know what they were.

I don't think people realize how we tend to ignore almost everything that is outside our own interest area. For example what do we really know about the RC work that was going on? Do you know what the RC club names were? Could you write an article now about their activities? Who would ou contact? (now don't go checking MA to find out!  n1).

We just all need to take a deep breath sometimes and realize the world doesn't spin around our activities. (only our planes do!  #^).

Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2009, 11:00:35 PM »
Some years ago I got  interested in the history of the CL flying Kidventure. I found two non-overlaping and contradictory histories.  One I got from people I know and trust, who were involved in getting it started.  The other I got from a knowledgeable person at AMA headquarters.  During the conversation, the AMA person gave me some "facts" about junior memberships in the AMA.  I repeated these "facts" on a forum.  About three months later, Dave Brown covered the same set of facts in one of his President's columns.  There was no relationship between the "facts" I had been given and the facts quoted by Dave Brown.  I was not pleased. 

That's all I am going to say about it as it is now all ancient history. 

I would suggest at least a letter to the editor of MA describing the CL activities. I'd also suggest you  you check around and see if you could get together an article about it to submit to Flying Models.   

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2009, 01:49:08 AM »
   I have been volunteering at KidVenture since it's second or third year. This year was my tenth trip there, and we usually spend four or five days there, working the circles for at least a half day and sometimes all day. KidVenture was was in part founded by Sean Elliott who was at that time the Director of the National Association of Flight Instructors, and is a former Junior national C.L stunt champion. Sean is now the Director of Flight Operations for the Pioneer Airport section of the EAA Museum. Kidventure was developed after the death of a poor unfortunate young girl who was killed in a crash with her father and flight instructor on take off of an overloaded airplane while attempting to be the youngest person to fly an airplane from coast to coast. The EAA was looking for a way to get and keep kids interested in aviation  but out of the cock pit until they are old enough to at least see over the dash board! One of the first volunteers was an aircraft designer of some notariaty. Rutan, I think is his name! In the early days, we would have four or five circles going at mid day, and would process 400 to 500 kids through the circles. At that time, we had the circles set up right on the grass strip of Pioneer Airport and the activity tents were right behind the museum. We got lots of walk-ins as people were making their way from the outer parking lots down the main road behind the museum. We also had major corporate sponsors such as Nestle's Quick and Red Baron's Pizza. At first, there was no R/C flying as there is A LOT of full scale activity in the area ( site seeing helicopters)and it was deemed too dangerous and technically against FAA regulations to operate R/C aircraft within the boundaries of an active airport. About 6 or 7 years ago, they managed to get a small wedge of ground near the beer garden to fly small electric park fliers and such, and had to stay within the  boundaries and below a certain altitude. About 3 or 4 years ago, there was a major change in the layout of KidVenture, as the EAA wanted to use the museum more for other fund raising dinners and such in the evening, and the big activity tent  was in the way, and they wanted to keep the grass strip open for possible emergency landings if needed. We moved to the other side of the field near the hangers with the C/L circles on the most flat ground and the R/C guys between us and the grass strip. The R/C guys were required to not overfly the grass strip, as the site seeing choppers flew a line up and down the runway as an approach to their boarding area. Even while flying small electric models, they could not avoid crossing the deadline and the helicopter operation complained of the near misses and rightly so. I though that this might bring about the end of the R/C flying, but they must have more pull than we do because they got the flying areas switched and we now have to fly more or less in a drainage ditch for the grass strip!!! HB~> HB~> HB~> I'm not talking about a small elevation change either, I'm talking about at least a foot and a half from one side of the circle to the center, and a rise of about a foot to the other side! And we only have room for two circles now, but we manage to get everyone through the lines. I plan on a letter writing effort to see if we can get our conditions improved as it is very difficult to fly with the little kids on such uneven ground especially when it gets wet, which it does at least a few times through the week. If something isn't done about the conditions, this will probably be my last year as a volunteer. Most of us model flight instructors (as we are called) aren't getting any younger, and bending over all day on uneven rough ground takes a toll on a guy! And I think there is a legitimate safety issue with the terrain also. We'll just have to see how far the letters make it up the chain of command.
   As far as AMA and their involvement, they were never a part of KidVenture, as it was not thought of as necessary. The EAA has their own insurance and such in place for the event and is also a branch of the NAA so it just wasn't thought of as necessary. The AMA has in the past, however, took every possible opportunity they could for photo ops and such at the site to make it look like AMA was involved, and some of these photos have been published in Model Aviation. AMA even had a "representative" assigned to the venue as a volunteer for a few years. Once they saw the numbers of kids that we were handling, it was obvious that they thought they were missing out on a good thing. AMA has had a booth at Oshkosh in the vendor hangers for several years, but for the last two years they have not due I guess in part to the economy and that Bob Underwood isn't up to the task any more of going to the NATS for a week and then to Oshkosh for a week to manage the booth. Bob is a great guy that I consider a friend and has done more for model aviation than any 10 of the rest of us combined. I wish we could have had him involved at KidVenture from the beginning as he is great with kids, crowds and announcing.  
   In short, KidVenture was conceived by C/L modelers for c/L flying from the very beginning and it just sort of seems that we are being edged out. I have personally flown approximately 1500 to 2000 flights there over the last ten years, but I feel that I have come away with much more than I have given in time and effort and will recommend volunteering for KidVenture to anyone that wants to experience it. We'll just have to see what the future brings.
   Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 02:13:32 AM by Dan McEntee »
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Online Dan McEntee

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2009, 02:16:12 AM »
I just got my model aviation and noticed a large article about EAA's kid venture. 
Dave Siegler
AMA 720731

Hi Dave;
    I just went to check out the article, and It's not in the October issue, which is the last issue I got. Is it in the November issue?
   Great fun flying with you at Oshkosh this year! #^ #^ #^ #^
  Type at you later,
   Dan McEntee
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Offline dave siegler

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2009, 05:37:30 AM »
It is in the november issue.  I read it, expecticing to see something, even a single mention or photo, and flipped out.  It made it seem the AMA and the show demo team was the entire theing at kidventure, and clearly it is very biased.  Many other groups, NASA, USAF and others have a large presense there.  It was a prety big look at me thing.

Hey Dan, lets you, I and Art Johnson wrtie an article on how kidventure controlline works?  Not the politics and stuff but a little history and more important the hows of getting 1500 kids though the flightline every year.  I mean just the process of doing 1500 training flights, with a small number of airplanes in a 6 day time frame is kind of wild.

And I am bringing mt F2d stuff next year. 
Dave Siegler
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Offline Clancy Arnold

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2009, 06:47:08 AM »
If you really want to get their attention, Start up a Jet for a few seconds just to let the kids know what a Jet sounds like.  Hee Hee Hee

Clancy
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2009, 08:36:14 AM »
And in the same issue, where they showed a little bit about the Nats, had near NOTHING on CL.  The only thing that did show up was Allen Brickhaus' Olympus, and a couple paragraphs on CL combat, nothing on precision aerobatics. HB~>
Matt Colan

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2009, 09:11:11 AM »
Matt, and all other CL fliers:

Like many of the freeflight and RC columns, the CL Precision Aerobactics column (which I write) is scheduled to appear every other month in MA. There is simply no way that they can present a column for each discipline each month. Believe me, they do a pretty good job with what they have to work with.

I don't know how else to say this: If you want more CL features and/or coverage, you need to submit something. We are the only ones who have an interest in CL and we need to carry the ball. What can we do? Write our AMA District VP and let him know what's going on in his district in the form of CL activities. Invite him to attend a meeting and discuss the AMA's viewpoints and in turn provide him with ours. Invite him to all of your contests and field activities (fun-flys, demos, etc). Provide him with photos every month for use in his column. Ask him to voice your concerns about the lack of CL coverage at the council meetings and then supply him with the manpower to help him to implement and justify more CL support. Get involved.

You can also write articles and submit them to MA. They may be refused for one reason or another, but they may also be accepted and published. I can tell you from experience in the editor's post there that precious little about CL is ever submitted. Heck, I have a hard time finding enough stuf to fill Stunt News each issue and we all know that that is a completely CL Stunt publication.

We need to be proactive not procrastinators. Want to grow CL? Get involved with activities that have that goal in mind. Actively search out new prospects in your area and teach them to build and fly. Most of all we need to stop expecting AMA to do all of this for us. WE ARE AMA WHEN IT COMES TO CL! It is our fraternity that needs to do something.

If there is a large CL happening in your area -such as the fantastic activities at Kid Venture each year - make sure that someone contacts AMA and MA early on to inform them about it. Make sure they know that you know that they have been informed and that you are expecting results if you in turn do your part to supply them with quality coverage.

Above all, be aware of our place in this hobby/sport. We are a small contingent when compared to RC. That's just a fact of life. If you count up the number of pages in MA each year that are dedicated to CL and FF and then look at how few of us there really are, then you would realize that far more magazine space percentage-wise is dedicated to us than we really should receive. I know that this will ruffle feathers in our community. Well, that's tough. The truth sometimes hurts. 

I have dedicated a large portion of my life to promoting all aspects of our hobby/sport, but I spend more time on CL than anything else. That's because I love this part of the sport more than all the others. That doesn't mean that I expect everyone else in the world of model aviation to cater to my personal preference. If I want this part of the hobby/sport to survive and grow, than I have to take it upon myself to do what is necessary to achive that goal. I can't expect others, who have interests of their own, to do it for me.

We can make CL grow and even flourish, but we have to change our perspective on how to do it. We can't stand around feeling sorry for ourselves any longer and blame AMA. We need to go into full promotion mode and "sell" this sport like never before.   

Bob Hunt

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2009, 10:22:17 AM »
Whoops, forgot about your column, and I read it, sorry Bob  :P .  But you do have a point, get involved...
Matt Colan

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2009, 10:40:29 AM »
Bob Hunt

Your a good steadying influence with very good suggestions.

Paul

Online Dan McEntee

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2009, 12:45:11 AM »
If you really want to get their attention, Start up a Jet for a few seconds just to let the kids know what a Jet sounds like.  Hee Hee Hee

Clancy
Hey Clancy,
     One of the Milwaukee guys, Don Adriono, usually brings a simple jet mounted in a sorta scale airframe and large wheels so it will take off from the grass. It does tend to act as an attention getter!! y1 y1 There is usually two demostration flights each day of a larger C/L model, usually a stunt flight. We try to put the jet up at least once a day. For the last three years, they have been having members of the Berringer family from France put up a stunt flight with a borrowed model. Remi Berringer came over the year he won the world champs with a display of his fathers aircraft brakes systems that his company produces. The last two years, the whole family has come over and Remi, his mother and his father have all put up demo flights. It adds a sort of international flavor to the event! One evening while we were sport flying, a few Chinese gentlemen approached the circle to watch us fly and offered to show me how to start  the engine on my P-Force. My Chinese isn't all the good, but I managed to convince him that I knew what I was doing!. About then Remi Berringer drove up in a golf cart with Jim Krieger and he recognized them as members of the Chinese team he had met a week earlier at the world champs!!!!! That's an example of the neat things that happen at Oshkosh that you just can't predict. You just have to be there!
   Type at you later,
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Offline dave siegler

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2009, 03:40:16 PM »
I emailed the author of the piece and said he wandered over to the control line area and met whit a rather rude response.  I know it wasn't Dan or me. 

I guess we all need to be a little open to new ideas and change. 

I have to get Don to let me fly the jet.  KidVenture is a lot of fun. 
Dave Siegler
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2009, 07:42:47 AM »
I wonder what he said that would get a rude response.  I am always getting remarks from people about our control line flying.  The ones in the know usually say they may pull such and such plane off the hokk and join us.  I know it's hard when someone makes the remark like, "Are you still playing with toy airplanes"?  Have fun,  DOC Holliday
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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2009, 08:51:18 AM »
Someone sent me a link to some of Oshkosh. There is a bit of CL Kidventure at 1:56 into the video.

   http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=nKU0uQki5Dc

George
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Offline Serge_Krauss

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2009, 11:04:12 AM »
I had originally only skimmed the article, but have since gone back over it. I do see that he was writing from the standpoint of his own club's participation and that he actually felt that they were representing the AMA. Still it could easily be misunderstood by readers to characterize the entire event's participation, and some of us AMA members here may well feel unrepresented.

So someone who was at Oshkosh this year should write a positive (not shrill), letter for the published letters section of MA as soon as possible to tell of the continued heavy CL participation in Kidventure. It might start something like this: "We commend...for their successful participation in Oshkosh Kidventure 2009, but feel that Mr. Lund may inadvertantly have left the impression that he covered the whole event..." It can continue as strongly as desired, but should stress some of what Dan has posted here, especially about CL's part in the history of Kidventure and its prominence this year. Regardless of anyone's personal perspective or benign intentions, it is still unfair to leave a false impression of the overall event through omission of a prominent part of the event; sins of omission can be every bit as misleading and damaging as outright lies and should very seldom go unanswered.  Not to respond - perhaps even in great numbers - is to encourage repetition of this kind of thing. Now, not just the article next year, is the time to do this. This small effort would not be just to repair damage; it should be seen as an opportunity for further exposure and recognition of the CL hobby and community. In particular it is a rare opportunity to present to a large readership our very positive presence among the youth at Oshkosh. Mr. Lund has opened the door. It's always a good time to make a good impression.

Below, our small yearly effort...

SK


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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2009, 12:16:07 AM »
   Here is an article that I wrote for a publication called "The Atlantic Flyer" that is aimed at the airshow enthusiast and airshow performer. A guy I met on line asked me to write it. It may still be viewable on their website. I wrote it before the MA article came out. I hoe this works!!!
     
                                   EAA   KidVenture:
    Planting the seed of interest in aviation one kid at a time!

  No matter what kind of special interest  or activity group you may be active in, there seems to be one common problem that that arises every now and then; getting new, younger people involved with your particular area of interest. Aviation at any level is no different.
   Quite some time ago, The Experimental Aircraft Association instituted their Young Eagles program, where young kids are given a free ride in an airplane to introduce them to the thrill of flight. By the time of the one hundredth anniversary of the Wright Brothers first flight in 2003, they had given over one million kids a chance to experience what it is like to fly. But there seemed to be a need for something more.
   Rules and regulations prevent kids from getting in the cockpit, not to mention the expense of it. Some of the management and leaders at the EAA came up with the idea of KidVenture and in 1998 it became an integral part of the annual EAA AirVenture Convention. Since then, thousands and thousands of kids of all ages and nationalities have passed through the KidVenture venue and have been able to experience several different aspects of aviation first hand and hands on. The size and scope of  the Airventure convention helps this result to include kids from almost all 50 States and many foreign countries, both boys and girls!
    What kid doesn’t like to pick up, handle or examine something new and different that they haven’t seen before? Kids are often told, ”Look but don’t touch!”  At KidVenture, they have the opportunity to have a hands on experience at many things related to aviation, such as building a balsa model glider, hand carve a replica wooden prop, use real hand tools  for metal and wood used in the construction of home built aircraft, and many other activities.
    The areas of science are not left out at Kidventure. Small scale wind tunnels show them the basics of aerodynamics.  There are booths where they can learn about weather, or assemble and trouble shoot simple electronic circuits. They can put together their own log of all these activities as they make their way around the hangers and tents. when they are ready for a break, they can sit in front of the “Heroes Stage”  where they can hear special guest speakers ranging from Dick Rutan, to Chuck Yeager, to Patty Wagstaff and others tell their story of how they got into aviation and then take questions from the audience.
    There are also displays from the US Military and other companies and programs looking to reach out to kids and young people also. As I stated before, finding new blood is a prime interest to a lot of people!
   There are several simulators inside where a child can take the controls of an airplane or helicopter and once he has “passed” on the simulator, he then can go outside to where hands on radio control and control line model demonstrations are being held. All a kid has to do is put his name and the state he is from on a sign up sheet,  and he or she will be given a chance to earn a set of wings by flying a trainer type radio controlled or control line model airplane, and that is where I come in.
     I fly control line aerobatic model airplanes in competition, and ten years ago,  a friend of mine from Milwaukee was telling me about the then new KidVenture concept and knew one of the founders of the program, a gentleman by the name of Sean Elliott. Sean is the Director of Flight Operations for the Pioneer Airport section of the EAA Museum and is also a former Junior National Champion  for control line aerobatics.
    This was the early days of KidVenture and they were looking for interested control line model enthusiasts to volunteer top work the control line circles at the KidVenture venue. Volunteers work a morning or early afternoon shift at one of the KidVenture attractions, and then the rest of the day is yours to enjoy the rest of the AirVenture Convention and daily Air Show. They also receive a shirt and hat, and a simple lunch is provided each day. I usually travel with two to three other modeling friends who volunteer also, and we share travel and lodging expenses. We also take some of our own models to fly at demonstrations through the day, and at the site during the evening after the end of the afternoon air show, weather permitting. You can’t ask for a better atmosphere for a model and aviation enthusiast than flying models at a vintage airport while P-51 Mustangs, T-6 Texans, Pitts Specials, and countless other types of aircraft fly over head and around you! After ten years, we have probably introduced control line model aviation to several thousand boys, girls and adults.
     It’s hard to gauge the results and effects of this exposure, but the effort has to be made.  This year, we had a young girl and members of her family come back again and work the control line circles as volunteer pilots and ground crews. They were some of the first to visit the venue more than ten years ago.  The  Olson’s are a “model” family! The father, Howard, and son Eric (who was on the US control line speed team two years ago)  and daughter Kelsey (who flies control line scale models) all worked as instructor pilots while mom Melissa kept things running smoothly in the sign up tent.  A child may not show an interest at a young age, But maybe the spark that he or she got at KidVenture will linger and ignite into a burning passion later on in life. I’m a firm believer that you can’t completely know what is inside a person and what it takes to reach them. You can’t force them to like or try anything that they don’t want to.. But if you give them (the kids) the exposure to something that they have never seen or tried before, you may be putting them on a path to a life long involvement with aviation and all it has to offer, and maybe even a way to make a living! Who knows what kind of new idea or concept may be in the mind of the next little boy or girl you talk to!
    The Kidventure venue is located at the  Pioneer Airport section of the EAA Air Museum at the west end of Wittman Regional Airport. The hours of operation are usually 9Am to 3:30PM .  Buses and trams run regularly from the flight line area of the of the AirVenture Convention and drop off at the museum and the Kidventure venue. It’s all free and part of your admission to the daily EAA Airventure Convention and Air Show. If you are interested in volunteering  your time, check out the EAA web site and contact them for information on how to sign up. I’ve been at it for ten years so far, and I’ve made my lodging reservations for next year already! See you next year at AirVenture 2010 and KidVenture!
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Offline James Mills

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2009, 07:30:32 AM »
Dan,

Excellent article (you must be sharper than Sean gives you credit to be  LL~ S?P).

James
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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2009, 08:06:04 AM »
You can also write articles and submit them to MA. They may be refused for one reason or another, but they may also be accepted and published. I can tell you from experience in the editor's post there that precious little about CL is ever submitted. Heck, I have a hard time finding enough stuf to fill Stunt News each issue and we all know that that is a completely CL Stunt publication.


Well, Bob you may have really helped that situation develop... by saying that CL stunt articles belonged in the PAMPA mag not in MA when you were editor (as you did in my case) you may have, in fact, help encourage the AMA to push the SOLE responsibility of PAMPA to "promote" CL stunt (as stated in the mission statement).

PAMPA has been going around for years saying they are "promoting" CL stunt, when in fact, they are simply appealing to a captive audience, and are really are a RESOURCE of the existing CL community.  Once they are in the fold, so to speak, PAMPA is there to help them progress.

So, my guess is that the AMA kind of thinks that PAMPA has the "promotion to the general public" thing covered.  Which it does not.

As far as getting articles for PAMPA, maybe you are asking the wrong people...
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 09:23:31 AM by Bradley Walker »
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2009, 09:23:58 AM »
z
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
-George Bernard Shaw

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2009, 09:29:42 AM »
Someone sent me a link to some of Oshkosh. There is a bit of CL Kidventure at 1:56 into the video.

   http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=nKU0uQki5Dc

George

A lot of planes in such a short time.  Had to watch the clock and look at video twice before I caught what I guess was someone starting an engine.
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline dave siegler

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2009, 04:59:27 PM »
Don't be too hard on the author, I emailed  him and he tried to get info.  He seems to be a normal guy, but he has his show team.

He talked to someone in the tent and got a rude "We take care of ourselves".  Think there is still bad blood, competition for space, etc.  I know even a few years ago someone complained that control line got bottled water (well we are out on the circle all day) and they got a cooler and a cup...  Stupid argument.  I think I know who he asked.  Too bad, both are nice guys. 


Although there is this competition between the various factions of areomodeing, In the general public it would be better if we had a more uniform look.
Dave Siegler
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Offline Mike Gretz

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2009, 06:12:00 AM »
Dan -

EXCELLENT article!  You and all the fine folks that have been volunteering for Kidventure all these years are a real asset to model aviation.  Your work IS so important, even if hard to measure.  It does work in the long run!

Is the article in print yet?

Mike

Offline dave siegler

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2009, 10:44:45 AM »
Here are some pics from this year, I think Dan took the most of them.  Was too busy flying to snap a lot of them.

Pictures of me flying, Dan flying, Beringer getting ready to fly Bob Nelson's airplane and the pit tent area.

In the last Picture, you can see the RC area back in behind us.  That is Don Adraino with the straw hat.  As well as some demo and display airplanes.
Dave Siegler
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Online Dan McEntee

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #28 on: November 09, 2009, 11:13:47 AM »
Dan -

EXCELLENT article!  You and all the fine folks that have been volunteering for Kidventure all these years are a real asset to model aviation.  Your work IS so important, even if hard to measure.  It does work in the long run!

Is the article in print yet?

Mike
     Hi Mike!;
    Yeah, it was in the September issue of The Atlantic Flyer and they have a web site where it was viewable on line. May still be there in an archive or something. I made a friend on line that is a representative of the paper and writes for that lives in Jaynesville and he asked me to do the article.  He sent me an email a month or so ago with the results of survey that said that KidVenture is the second most popular attraction at Oshkosh. I hope I can keep going, but we'll have to see what the economy and job market brings for the new year.
    Great to hear from you!!!!
\    Type at you later,
     Dan McEntee
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Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2009, 07:42:17 PM »
I was cruising the AMA forum and found a statement by Jim Cherry that the only AMA presence in Oshkosh would be an RC show team. This is something that needs to be discussed with our AMA President. 

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2009, 08:13:40 PM »
Jim,

Like I mentioned, I don't think the CL Kidventure is AMA sanctioned. Not that it couldn't be.

Unless you are sanctioned, the event isn't officially AMA.

Somehow I think this whole thread (including both the RC and CL efforts) is almost coming under the heading of "no good deed goes unpunished"! HB~>

I know we all have the right intentions here......

I'd let it go..........or talk to the current CL Kidventure organizers.

Alan

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2009, 01:15:17 PM »
Who has been supplying all the equipment?  Maybe get a C/L Mfg to support the effort for the advertising.  Or even several mfg's.  Good pictures, but, need more kids/adults being helped. H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Alan Hahn

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2009, 02:34:31 PM »
I know Sig has provided a lot of stuff, but I'm not sure who else has.

Offline bobsrc

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Re: AMA and Kidenture kid venture article no CL!
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2009, 09:18:05 PM »
My wife and I were there this year representing Sig and having a ball with the kids.  On Saturday I sat out near the instructor pilots and took some pictures of the kids and instructor up close.  The grins on those kids faces are just priceless and to me make the whole operation worth while.  If someone wants to do an article on Kid Venture UC, some of these might be usefull to convey how the kids are affected by what we are doing.  I have them in digital form and can email them if I can figure out how.
Bob Nelson
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