Academy of Model Aeronautics

[RC Storick]

The Academy of Model Aeronautics is now registered here and will be posting the FAA rulings here later today. Looks good for us guys! I was told not to register because they are getting a ruling to exempt CL from this. Even CL Scale with 2.4 controls. We shall see when Dave makes his post. So don't get our panties in a wad yet I guess the squeaky wheel will get greased.

[Shug Emery]

Right good.
Shug

[Academy of Model Aeronautics]

The Government Relations team is in the process of crafting a message... We will be sending an email and posting the message on AMA's social media, blogs, facebook, etc. Look for this to happen later today or tomorrow morning.

For the latest AMA Government Relations information visit www.modelaircraft.org/gov

This might be a good opportunity to make sure that we have your correct email address!
If you are receiving emails from AMA I would guess that we have your correct email address, if you would like to receive AMA email communication please send an email with your AMA# to markb@modelaircraft.org (Mark Benson) and I will add you to our email list.

Thank you for being a member..

[JoeJust]

The Academy of Model Aeronautics is now registered here and will be posting the FAA rulings here later today. Looks good for us guys! I was told not to register because they are getting a ruling to exempt CL from this. Even CL Scale with 2.4 controls. We shall see when Dave makes his post. So don't get our panties in a wad yet I guess the squeaky wheel will get greased.

I guess that because Navy Carrier is a sort of Scale event, that we who fly Carrier will be allowed the exemption.  Sure hope so!
Joe

[Carl Cisneros]

Joe

your Carrier plane is control line isn't it?

[Jim Carter]

The Government Relations team is in the process of crafting a message... We will be sending an email and posting the message on AMA's social media, blogs, facebook, etc. Look for this to happen later today or tomorrow morning.

For the latest AMA Government Relations information visit www.modelaircraft.org/gov

This might be a good opportunity to make sure that we have your correct email address!
If you are receiving emails from AMA I would guess that we have your correct email address, if you would like to receive AMA email communication please send an email with your AMA# to markb@modelaircraft.org (Mark Benson) and I will add you to our email list.

Thank you for being a member..

What about free-flight and HLG??  whether I.C., rubber, or now, electric??  Jus' askin' !!

[Allen Goff]

Joe, if we use 2.4 radios we are not exempt from registration. At least that's what I'm being told.
Scale and carrier might have to rethink our controls systems. I am weary and tired of our government taxing us, and handcuffing this hobby we have enjoyed for so many years. Sorry for the bad news, I hope I'm wrong.

Blessings
Allen

[Mark Scarborough]

I think the phrase " without direct intervention from the ground" would still define a control line airplane that uses a 2.4 radio,, its in direct control of the ground pilot since the radio only supports auxilary functions,, and the airframe can be "stopped " at any point by simply flying it at the ground at a steep angle 

[Carl Cisneros]

this is item#1 of the e-mail I got from the AMA Joe:

1.       The AMA has been assured by FAA that registration only applies to RC aircraft.  Traditional CL aircraft are exempt.  
          However, if you use RC in any of your CL aircraft (some do) then you would have to register.

and according to the same e-mail, we are no hold pending further info from the AMA.

[wwwarbird]

 Finally, some positive news? Hopefully things pan out well, fingers crossed.

[Steve Hines]

Just glad Dave does not read post on here, he would find out how much you all hate the AMA. Just dont know why you would ask or want help from the AMA. 

Steve

[john e. holliday]

You should read some of the posts on the AMA site that was listed here in a post.

[Ken Burdick]

I got greased once!

gambled and lost

 

[Steve Helmick]

The Government Relations team is in the process of crafting a message... We will be sending an email and posting the message on AMA's social media, blogs, facebook, etc. Look for this to happen later today or tomorrow morning.

For the latest AMA Government Relations information visit www.modelaircraft.org/gov

Am I the only one that thinks it's ironic that they refer to this as "Government Relations"? Seems like our Government is intent on having relations with us, whether we want relations or not. Now, they want us to register to have relations with them, and AMA is pimping us out.
No, thanks anyway...  Steve

[wwwarbird]

You should read some of the posts on the AMA site that was listed here in a post.

 I just did, and a couple of other AMA blurbs I've found about about the current issue too.

 I have yet to see any wording coming from the AMA that attempts to differentiate model aircraft from drones/quad copters etc. I think that's a BIG problem with the supposed ongoing negotiation. The drones/quads are what have driven the entire problem to the point that we are at today. Anyone here that doesn't realize that is also part of the problem. Unless the AMA comes to that simple realization, admits it and finds a way to create and establish a permanent drone/quad separation from model aviation, we're all going to get screwed. 

[wwwarbird]

 Strangely quiet here, sure would be nice to see an update from the AMA on their efforts. Oh wait, there would have to be some effort...

[peabody]

Wayne
Drones/quads are NOT the major issue.....their proliferation has attracted media attention, but there are several problems that have come to the surface:
Giant RC planes can carry substantial payloads
Over the Horizon is a HUGE issue, not only FPV, but GPS driven

Homeland Security has been eyeballing these issues for YEARS.......our media has brought the idea of terror from the sky to a new level when they discovered that cheap quads/drones can virtually "fly themselves" and take pictures as well as deliver payloads.....

The AMA has been aware of these issues for YEARS as well, and has tried to diffuse Federal actions for YEARS....
The proliferation of drones/quads and the message that a million would be sold for xmas brought the issue to the fore

[Fred Cronenwett]

I would agree the main issue is not the Quads themselves or even the fact that they have cameras.

The main problem is First Person View (FPV), this allows the pilot to fly over the horizon without looking at the aircraft or quad and still pilot the aircraft. the military has had this for years, now the average person can get it so I think that this fact has pushed this issue to the front page of the news. Without FPV the quads would have been limited range so they can stay in visual range of the pilot.

Fred

[Paul Smith]

AMA could turn this to advantage by mass-registering the entire membership.

Then tell drone-buyers that buying an AMA licence is the easiest way to comply with FAA regulations.

Any device that allows a small aircraft to be controlled beyond line-of-sight is problem that needs to addressed by higher powers.

[Mike Griffin]

I am normally not pessimistic but I just don't see a bright future for flying models, and especially for RC.

Mike

[john e. holliday]

If some one would enforce the rule, it is already required to have another person the pilot doing FPV and the air craft must be with in his sight.

[wwwarbird]

If some one would enforce the rule, it is already required to have another person the pilot doing FPV and the air craft must be with in his sight.

 That's one of the main problems with the whole registration idea though, it's all practically unenforceable. "Requiring" registration won't change or help any of it either. People can kid themselves into thinking otherwise but I don't care what they "require", there is going to be tens of thousands of unregistered quads and such buzzing around in the future from here on out, and with more and more added to that number everyday.

 Like everything, there are 100's of different viewpoints and opinions to all of this. Thing is, I don't see the AMA making a serious and/or visible attempt to help preserve the hobby of Model Aviation as we've known it for "80 Years", the very same hobby they now proclaim to have represented for that amount of time on the cover of their rag. All I do see them doing is anymore is lining up to help the "future of Model Aviation" with throwing us ALL over the cliff.

[david beazley]

Here is the latest from AMA

Dear Members,

As you know, we have been working with our legal counsel and the FAA to find a solution for our members on the registration rule. To date, FAA has agreed in principle to several proposed initiatives that will help ease this process for our members. Specifically, they are:

AMA and the FAA are working to streamline the registration process for AMA members whereby those who register with the FAA will be able to use their AMA number as the primary identification on their model aircraft, as opposed to adding a new federal registration number.
 
In addition, AMA members' federal registration will automatically renew provided membership remains active and current. We are working with FAA in negotiating the renewal fee, but in any case it is envisioned the renewal process will be provided as a member benefit.
 
In the future, federal registration will automatically be accomplished upon joining the AMA, eliminating the need to register with both AMA and the FAA.
These initiatives are a step in the right direction. However, we want to emphasize that this is not the end of our efforts to protect AMA members from this overreaching regulation. We are continuing to explore all legal and political options available, but these conversations may take time and a definitive solution is unlikely before the February 19 registration deadline.

Currently, registration is free of charge until January 19. If you would like to take advantage of this free period, you may want to register before that day. But please note that you have until February 19 to register in order to avoid violating the federal rule. 

We also want to encourage our members to submit comments to the FAA about the registration rule. It is critical that all AMA members are heard loud and clear on this issue. The deadline for submitting comments is Friday, January 15. Additional instruction is available here.

Thank you for your patience as we work to find the best path forward on registration. We are committed to doing everything possible to protect our hobby and ensure that future generations have the opportunity to fly.

Sincerely,

AMA

Our AMA inaction...

[Mike Griffin]

Well I am through with AMA.  I will not register anything .  This was the biggest cluster %#%# I have ever been witness to.

Mike

[Perry Rose]

Too bad that AMA doesn't know how to deal with the FAA. Where is PAMPA on this? Or any of the SIGs?

[TigreST]

Here's the latest from the North (MAAC-Canada). Somewhat related: copy and paste follows dated Jan. 10th 2016

FWIW.

Hello Pilots:
 
MAAC President, Rodger Williams has been in close communication with the AMA as this situation unfolds. We tried to register and were confronted with 2 issues. Because our IP address is Canadian, we were blocked. We obtained an IP address in the USA and tried again, we could not fill in documentation because we do not have a permanent US address. Clearly the FAA does not have the feature activated on their website that allows a foreign national or a tourist to regsiter. There is a method to be able to register by hard copy but we are unable to find that. AMA reports significant problems with the FAA site but more importantly, there are scam sites out there offering to register you for fees up to $24.99. The maximum fee will be $5 and no one should pay any more than that. Make sure you are going directly to the FAA website when you register, (this is when the FAA activates this feature).
 
The following is from the Q&A section of the FAA website...
 
Q11. Updated: Are non-U.S. citizens visiting the United States on vacation or for drone competitions required to register?
 
A.      Everyone, including foreign nationals and tourists, who operate a UAS for hobby or recreational purposes outdoors in the U.S. must use the FAA's online registration system. These non-U.S. citizens or non-permanent U.S. residents will receive the same registration certificate as U.S. Citizens or permanent U.S. residents. However, this certificate will function as a "recognition of ownership" document. This document is required by the Department of Transportation for foreign nationals to operate legally in the US.
 
 
 
Q12. Who is required to register on the new online UAS registration website?
 
A. Only individual recreational or hobby users who meet U.S. citizenship requirements are able to register their unmanned aircraft using this new streamlined web-based process. This new, faster and easier system will be available for other UAS owners soon.
 
 
 
Q45. Why does the certificate I received constitute recognition of registration for US citizens and permanent residents, but only recognition of ownership for foreign nationals? Have I complied with the requirement to register?
 
A.      All users can submit information to the UAS registry; however, the law only permits the FAA to register aircraft belonging to United States citizens and permanent residents. For all others, the certificate received from the registry comprises a recognition of ownership, rather than a registration. Foreign nationals who have completed the recognition of ownership process and wish to receive a rebate for the $5 registration fee may contact the FAA. Nonetheless, all users are encouraged to submit their information and mark their UAS. This will facilitate the recovery of the UAS, should it be lost or stolen.
 
 
 
Q63. I am a citizen of a foreign country who lives in the United States. How do I know if I can register a drone with the FAA?
 
A.      Federal law allows an individual citizen of another country who has been lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the United States under the regulations of the Department of Homeland Security to register an aircraft, including a drone, with the FAA.
 
"End of quote".
 
 
 
I would suggest, for now, that someone who would like to register that is a citizen of Canada (or any other foreign country) drop an email to the FAA at UAShelp@faa.gov and ask them for the procedure necessary to do that. Sorry I’m not a little more help here but, again, we have no reason to believe that foreign citizens visiting the US will not be able to register and fly.
 
Best
 
Frank Klenk
 
Southwest Zone Director
 
MAAC 32001L

[john e. holliday]

Maybe the good ole boys of the USA are jumping the gun.  How come the other countries are not getting stirred up about this.  I've seen very little on the Barton site other than they are losing more sites.  I know I'm not worried about signing up because if where I fly at is interfering with air traffic,  they are way too low.   Do have eagles, gull ans night hawks to contend with.

[Terrence Durrill]

Joe, if we use 2.4 radios we are not exempt from registration. At least that's what I'm being told.
Scale and carrier might have to rethink our controls systems. I am weary and tired of our government taxing us, and handcuffing this hobby we have enjoyed for so many years. Sorry for the bad news, I hope I'm wrong.

Blessings
Allen

      We are flying headlong into a full fledged Socialist ironfisted big government state.  Yes, what they are doing to our hobby of model aviation is unacceptable and uncalled for and yet they are doing it.  It is not just model aviation folks........it is everyting in your life.........look around.......what is in your life that the Federal Government does not regulate.......ALMOST NOTHING.  We must resist this tyranical power grab going on in this country.......or we are going to lose more than our precious model airplanes.            

[david beazley]

My sentiments exactly Terrance.  What I would like to know is if AMA cuts a deal with FAA to "allow" AMA number to be the registration number, are they going to turn over ALL members info to the feds? Even if you don't fly RC?  I fly RC, CL and some FF, but I will give up RC and Not register and just fly the other two.  It is the principle of the thing.  

[Andre Ming]

"We must resist this tyranical power grab going on in this country.......or we are going to lose more than our precious model airplanes."

It will continue to increase. As a nation, we are very likely going to have our first woman president come November.  Thus, the power grabs and governmental intrusion into our lives will continue to increase, along with a total disdain for some primary portions of our Constitution.

[Randy Cuberly]

"We must resist this tyranical power grab going on in this country.......or we are going to lose more than our precious model airplanes."

It will continue to increase. As a nation, we are very likely going to have our first woman president come November.  Thus, the power grabs and governmental intrusion into our lives will continue to increase, along with a total disdain for some primary portions of our Constitution.

I sincerely do not believe that will happen.  The Demorats have done so much damage to the country and liberties that most people are beginning to wake up.  Even a lot of those that a couple of years ago supported Billary are now realizing what they really stand for!

If it does in fact happen it will be because of a controlled so called election and there will be a revolution.  That will be the end of The USA!

Randy Cuberly

[Mark Mc]

Here is the latest from AMA:

In the future, federal registration will automatically be accomplished upon joining the AMA, eliminating the need to register with both AMA and the FAA.


Sincerely,
AMA

This one sentence shows that the AMA has not only rolled over for the FAA, but that they are actively seeking to become an agent of the FAA.

[peabody]

Political BS is not calls d for.

[Mike Griffin]

Political BS is not calls d for.

Rich I sincerely wish with all my heart we could discuss this without "political BS" as you say but unfortunately this whole issue is political and you cannot remove the politics from it.  ANYTHING the government becomes involved in is political and intrudes into your life.

Mike

[peabody]

Mike....
You have already told the world that you are not going to re-join the AMA...

Why are you commenting further.....you really have no standing in the issue....

[Mike Griffin]

Mike....
You have already told the world that you are not going to re-join the AMA...

Why are you commenting further.....you really have no standing in the issue....

Just stating the truth Rich, nothing personal.  Anytime the government gets involved in something like this, it automatically becomes political. It has nothing to do with whether I am a member of AMA or not.  The defining moment for me was when Bob Brown made the statement that quadcopters were the future of model aviation.  I have as much right to state my thoughts on the issue as you do and will continue to do so.

Mike

[BillP]

Mike,
The AMA is supporting registration that affects non AMA members too, so you have every right to voice opinion on what they are doing. Actually, members have no more standing with the AMA than non members either.  Sure, members can voice opinion but it doesn't appear to mean anything.

bp

[david beazley]

This was sent to me this morning from our club president. Apparently it is on AMA's facebook page.  (I don't do social media so maybe someone can confirm).

AMA Leadership met with the FAA on Friday, January 15 to discuss model aircraft registration and to resolve member concerns such as LMA. During those discussions the FAA stated the registration of Large Model Aircraft was overlooked and indicated there was no intent to subject AMA members who fly large model aircraft over 55 pounds in compliance with AMA guidelines to a stricter registration process. Also, it was not intended for model aircraft flown within AMA programming to register under the Part 47 process and obtain an N-number. The FAA UAS Integration Office is currently looking into this issue and said they'll respond back to us when they have further information. We are working to document this in writing and should be issuing a statement to our membership soon.

Looks to me like they are confirming what we all knew all along, namely that the feds don't know what they are doing.

[BillP]

Why is the AMA even discussing this with the FAA? I've read the new registration documents several times and cannot see anywhere an N number is hinted or suggested for model planes of any weight.   N number FAA weight rules apply to manned (pilot aboard) aircraft and unless the rules have changed, max plane weight limit without requiring an N number is 254 lbs (ultralight)...and doesn't require registration, inspection or a pilots license.  Asking the FAA to clarify this is just bringing another issue that doesn't exist to the FAA table. Where is the written clarification from the FAA that CL is exempt from the new registration law?   

[dave siegler]

you all ought to go look at the faa app.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/b4ufly/

if you are within 5 miles of ANY airport or helipad, you get a WARNING ACTION REQUIRED.  then it asks you how high, how far and how long you intend to fly. 

Now it's -5deg F so I am not flying anything, but Ill give it a go when it warms up.  I would bet most of us are within 5 miles of a grass strip, or frequently unused helipad. 

Will land owners get cold feet when we try to get permission to fly on their property?  They are within 5 miles of a grass strip, they don't want trouble with the FAA, and how have another reason to say no. 

Also I heard that some home owners insurance people are looking at the bigger hobby and may try to drop liability coverage for UAV's, and probably us. 
Wonder what happens to the AMA then? 

[John Fitzgerald]

AMA, what does it do for Control Line?   It seems they don't like us much at all.

[Avaiojet]

AMA, what does it do for Control Line?   It seems they don't like us much at all.

I think they like tho$e million drone$ that will be purcha$ed thi$ year. One million to be $old in 2016.

They forget their roots.