2022 F2 World Championships

[Ken Culbertson]

Well  Steve  will not answer me, but  just for everyone's  info,  A female  contestant  can show up at a Team Trials, Fly and would be put on the team, if there is only 1 female  competing, it would be certain,  by FAI rules,  So we  could possibly have  5 team members, and the  female  could be a Jr. or a SR. member.    This  needs  to be kept in mind, the  next time  we  hold  a  team Selection Contest.

Regards
Randy Smith

Somehow I missed that part.  Are we adding a slot and reserving one for a female?  I am curious, how many are there capable of competing at the expert level?  I didn't think that there was ever a restriction based on gender, only skill.  If the top three were female that would be the team.  The Army currently recognized 5 genders. (not sure what the 5th one is)  Are we about to have an 8 person team?  Where does this insanity end.  Is there one thing about flying PA that is done better simply because you are male?  I guess the PC police will be visiting me soon.

Ken

[RandySmith]

Randy,

Ben will be 20 in August of 2022, will he still be eligible for Jr.?

Jame

Yes he would  still be  eligible  if that were  the case, and he was on the team

Rady

[RandySmith]

Somehow I missed that part.  Are we adding a slot and reserving one for a female?  I am curious, how many are there capable of competing at the expert level?  I didn't think that there was ever a restriction based on gender, only skill.  If the top three were female that would be the team.  The Army currently recognized 5 genders. (not sure what the 5th one is)  Are we about to have an 8 person team?  Where does this insanity end.  Is there one thing about flying PA that is done better simply because you are male?  I guess the PC police will be visiting me soon.

Ken

HI Ken
We are not adding  any slots, except  for  a  female  can be  the  5th  member  of the team,  The  limit  is  now  5 instead of 4.   FAI  enacted a  rule  that states  that  a female  can  make  the team a  5 person  Team, and  ONLY a  female.  The did  that  only to encourage  more  females  to participate,  There  will  NOT be  6 , 7  or  8 person teams.  Does not  matter  what her  score is. However  if  3 females  showed up, and   beat the score  of the  top 3 males, then the  team would  be  female  for the  SR.  part , there  is  no  rule  to add  a  male

Regards
Randy

[BillLee]

HI Ken
We are not adding  any slots, except  for  a  female  can be  the  5th  member  of the team,  The  limit  is  now  5 instead of 4.   FAI  enacted a  rule  that states  that  a female  can  make  the team a  5 person  Team, and  ONLY a  female.  The did  that  only to encourage  more  females  to participate,  There  will  NOT be  6 , 7  or  8 person teams.  Does not  matter  what her  score is. However  if  3 females  showed up, and   beat the score  of the  top 3 males, then the  team would  be  female  for the  SR.  part , there  is  no  rule  to add  a  male

Regards
Randy

Randy, the combinations are myriad and mind-boggling!

Suppose the top three(or even one or two) qualifiers are female. You simply name one to be the "team female" and then next higher qualifier(maybe male, female,whatever) is elevated to the team. And on and on and on....

Bottom line: FAI says up to five team members as long as one is a junior and one is female. But the rules don't say how those will interact. It's a real mess!

[Paul Smith]

I'm not involved in this anymore, but I was heavily into the F2D program from 1970 to 1990.

Competing in Team Trials has become a sport in itself.   The winners of the TT have won the honor of calling themselves the US Team in a recognized sport.

Having tried many times, I concede that there is nothing the US can do to control the actions of the FAI.  If they cancelled the 2020, 2021 and other WC's, that's their doing and not ours.

The worldwide Covid scare and the political countermeasures have cost millions of people a lot of one-time opportunities, including career-changing losses.   It is obvious that many of the countermeasures have actually been cost-saving actions aimed more at cutting losses than disease.

So let the TT go on and hope to actually have another WC some time in future.

[Brett Buck]

Randy, the combinations are myriad and mind-boggling!

Suppose the top three(or even one or two) qualifiers are female. You simply name one to be the "team female" and then next higher qualifier(maybe male, female,whatever) is elevated to the team. And on and on and on....

Bottom line: FAI says up to five team members as long as one is a junior and one is female. But the rules don't say how those will interact. It's a real mess!

   But, the way to exploit it to maximum advantage is quite obvious. The female team member should always go in that team slot regardless of age, if there happens to be a junior on top of it (male or female), then so be it. Then you get a junior slot for free. 

     I think finding people to fill the 2 extra slots will be the big problem.

     Brett

[Paul Smith]

As I read it, the Team Score is the total score of a nation's top 3.

So a nation that plays to win will find a way to have 5 flyers.

[RandySmith]

Randy, the combinations are myriad and mind-boggling!

Suppose the top three(or even one or two) qualifiers are female. You simply name one to be the "team female" and then next higher qualifier(maybe male, female,whatever) is elevated to the team. And on and on and on....

Bottom line: FAI says up to five team members as long as one is a junior and one is female. But the rules don't say how those will interact. It's a real mess!

Bill ,  you got that right !  it will be  interesting  to see  how  this FAI quest goes in promoting  female  participation .

Randy

[De Hill]

If a man identifies as a woman can he try out for the team as a woman?

[BillLee]

If a man identifies as a woman can he try out for the team as a woman?

Oh, my!!

[Ken Culbertson]

If a man identifies as a woman can he try out for the team as a woman?

I rest my case.  We are going down the rabbit hole.

Ken

[De Hill]

Hmmm... If a man identifies as a lesbian, he can try out for the team, and will Not have to change any of his actions.

[Ken Culbertson]

Hmmm... If a man identifies as a lesbian, he can try out for the team, and will Not have to change any of his actions.

Interesting.  I think that a male lesbian is one of the 20 some genders (some sources have it at 80) the LGBTQrstuvwxyz community recognizes this week.  Since the FAI is only concerned with two genders then are the others excluded?  FYI, a full sized stunter won't fit down the Rabbit hole.

Ken

[Paul Smith]

By allowing a nation an effective bonus of one or two team members, the FAI has created a strong incentive to bring women and children into the sport.

In the absence of valuable prizes, I doubt that modeling will be targeted like some women's professional sports.

[Brett Buck]

By allowing a nation an effective bonus of one or two team members, the FAI has created a strong incentive to bring women and children into the sport.

In the absence of valuable prizes, I doubt that modeling will be targeted like some women's professional sports.

      Tokenism is never a good idea, and anyone who you would actually want as a new stunt competitor (regardless of gender) would be offended by the notion that they needed to be pandered to.

      Brett

[Ken Culbertson]

I have no idea how including someone on a world team who is not competitive at that level will attract anyone.  I can't think of anything we are doing that is discouraging someone, regardless of their gender, from participating.  When I was in High School my girlfriend accompanied me to contests, chased gliders with us and launched for me in practice.  She really enjoyed it but she was discouraged from participating, not by us but by her girlfriends.  Pier pressure is very persuasive.  I don't think the pier pressure for girls to not do "boy things" is that strong any more.  I took my grandkids (6 & 8 ) out to watch me practice a while back and they were really impressed but it was my granddaughter that showed the most interest.  Nobody was there to tell her that "Girls don't do that" like they were even in my daughters day.  My daughter really liked my sailplanes and wanted to learn to fly them until she mentioned that to one of her school friends.

My point is that we don't need false incentives to attract women.  If they want to fly they will show up and this time they won't have someone at school or at home discouraging them.  What we should be concerned with is that if enough of them do decide to work their way up the skill ladder we may find the FAI revising the rule to require at least one male on the team.

Ken

[Dave_Trible]

On this topic , it set another set of gears going in my head.  I have a ten year old granddaughter who I am going to teach to fly right after the Nats......my oldest grandson (14) can fly but really shows no interest.  I have two other grandsons not quite old enough.  I hope I get at least one flier out of the brood.  I almost think it could be the girl.  Watch out Dawn Cosmillo....

Dave

[BillLee]

Further information received today from AMA/FAI Executive Committee:

The decision has been made that the teams selected for the 2020 F2 WChs will represent us in 2022 in Poland. No new team selection will be done.

How this affects any current team member who qualified in the junior slot but has "aged out" is yet to be determined.

Regards,

Bill Lee