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Author Topic: 2021 CLPA US National Championships  (Read 8772 times)

Offline mark overmier

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #50 on: April 01, 2021, 05:19:10 PM »
What if we gave the pilot/judges an added incentive to judge? What if we let the volunteer judge choose their flight placement on their circle for the rounds they are judging? For example if an Open pilot is judging Advanced first, then the judge/pilot could choose where in the order they want to fly, first, last, or in the middle. When they get to choose their flight order would still need to be be determined. Do you let them choose that morning? Right before the round starts? Or when the ping pong ball flight order is picked.

Just a thought.

Mark

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2021, 05:56:08 PM »
Oh dredd the ping pong ball!

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Online Brett Buck

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2021, 06:04:34 PM »
What if we gave the pilot/judges an added incentive to judge? What if we let the volunteer judge choose their flight placement on their circle for the rounds they are judging? For example if an Open pilot is judging Advanced first, then the judge/pilot could choose where in the order they want to fly, first, last, or in the middle. When they get to choose their flight order would still need to be be determined. Do you let them choose that morning? Right before the round starts? Or when the ping pong ball flight order is picked.


   If it's still a problem in a few days, I will shame someone into it. Although anything that gets me away from the deadly ping-pong balls - which are clearly against me - is to the good.

   Depending on how the order works out, it may end up being out of your hands, because we now have the same issue we have at local contests, where the judge is supposed to fly on another circle.

    Brett

Offline Matt Colan

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2021, 06:39:45 PM »
Today we have an important announcement.  Due to having a very skeletal cast of characters (crew of judges) our bud Dennis Adamisin brought up an idea to help.  I discussed it with the head judge and a few other key folks and I have decided to implement it for the Nats at least for this year.  For Qualifying rounds we will enlist a few of the PILOTS to help the full time judges to judge a class they aren’t flying in.  There will be four each from Open and Advanced.  They will go through the regular judges training on site with Mark Overmier.  We will take a break between flying classes to allow the pilot/judges to move and set up where they need to be.  I already have two volunteers from the Open flyers.  I’ll need two more Open and four Advanced to raise your hand to help.  If you’d like to be one email me .

VegasDave4@gmail.com

Thanks!

Dave

How would this work on top 20 day? I see it working for qualifying because advanced and open are run separately, but not on top 20 day where it’s going on simultaneously
Matt Colan

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2021, 06:57:50 PM »
Matt the pilot/judges are done after the Qualifying days.  The full time judges take over the rest-as long as we still have 7-8.  Six on Saturday.

So tonight I have:

Open pilot/judges
Dennis Adamisin
John Paris
Brett Buck
___________

Advanced pilot/judges
Mark Weiss
___________
___________
___________

Dave
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Offline john e. holliday

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2021, 10:07:20 PM »
One way is to let the fliers who volunteer to judge a class fly first in the class they entered before they judge.  But, like you stated who ever flies first will judge the rest of his class for that round and second round let the person who judged first in first in first round fly second round when he is ready.  Both classes.  Of course it going to take a lot of score sheets and tabulation. ???
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2021, 11:10:25 PM »
The fine ladies that volunteer to keep our sport running should not be allowed to read this thread!


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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2021, 05:01:39 AM »
It's hard to appreciate that there are HUNDREDS of score sheets to make and then to tally.  This is long hard work.  However this method will create no more than if we had the regular compliment of 12 judges.  We simply couldn't do this at all without our crew of tabulators who happen to be all ladies.  BTW-another will be greatly appreciated! At normal strength, given our multiple events it takes 24-28 people to put the Nats on.  Thats more than many small companies have to run a business.  All the volunteers are priceless.

Dave
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Offline Doug Moon

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2021, 09:38:25 AM »
Doug I know we will have a few logistical things to work out but I don't think it will be that complicated.  To look at an example, let's see what it SHOULD look like on any one circle;  So on Circle 1 we may typically have, say 8 Advanced and 8 Open pilots.  The Advanced usually fly first.  The Open guys sort of 'hang out' for two plus hours and wait their turn.  Ideally one of this Open group grabs a clipboard and judges the Advanced group of eight on his circle.  When the Advanced group is done that circle takes a break for maybe 15 minutes while the Open group gets ready and ONE Advanced pilot grabs the clipboard to judge.  Copy that on on four circles.  The ideal situation would have one Pilot/Judge working with two full time judges.  That could vary depending on who volunteers and where seeding places them (which circles).  If we happen to have two-three volunteers on one circle we may have to partner that circle with another one so that they run and break in unison so the volunteer can go work another circle if need be to judge.  We may find it advantageous to run ALL FOUR circles on the same time table, even if that means one circle finishes an hour early and waits.  We are usually done quite early in the day anyway so we can run a little longer those days if we need to.
Why do all this?  We at best right now have 7 confirmed full time judges and another probable.  To function normally for four circles and to best use our computer programs and so forth we really need about 12 judges.  We simply don't have and I'm not seeing them coming down the road.(This year nor into the future).  If we try to run with what we have only we will likely have to doctor the programming and actually Howard really doesn't have the time to do it right now but even so it still leaves us in a pickle if we lost ANYBODY for any reason.  I think most pilots would really like at least three judges on their circle to more normalize their average score.  We did a couple circles with two last year and it went OK but .......
Another benefit is that in this way we can provide some training and actual experience judging at this level, hopefully creating an enlarged pool of future judging talent.  This is demonstrating we need it.  We could cut circles (maybe) but again possible issues with programs but also a VERY long day for the judges on those first two Qualifying days.  We undoubtedly will find some bumps in the road but thats how we learn.  We have a bunch of very fine minds here involved in the process.  I hope we can spot issues and get out in front of them.

Dave

You have a good point there about exposing more people to judging at this level. But if you go back and review my possible solution you would then expose the ENTIRE competing body to judging at his level.  Just a thought.

With my idea I am not sure how it would narrow for the top 20 etc..
Doug Moon
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Online Brett Buck

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #59 on: April 02, 2021, 11:22:00 AM »
It's hard to appreciate that there are HUNDREDS of score sheets to make and then to tally.  This is long hard work.  However this method will create no more than if we had the regular compliment of 12 judges.  We simply couldn't do this at all without our crew of tabulators who happen to be all ladies.  BTW-another will be greatly appreciated! At normal strength, given our multiple events it takes 24-28 people to put the Nats on.  Thats more than many small companies have to run a business.  All the volunteers are priceless.

  The fact that almost no one even knows it happens is a great tribute to how well it has been done. The sheer volume of the operation is staggering.

    The long-time competitors know what goes on and greatly appreciate it. Its why sometimes "helpful suggestions" of the form "hey, why doesn't somebody just do X.."  sometimes gets a hostile reaction. The process is so carefully worked out that suddenly changing it causes the (largely anonymous) people doing all the work a great deal of effort, that the proposer really doesn't consider when "helping" us see the error of our ways.

     Brett

Offline bob whitney

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #60 on: April 02, 2021, 12:01:56 PM »
to volunteer. what and how many days would be involved
rad racer

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #61 on: April 02, 2021, 01:20:04 PM »
to volunteer. what and how many days would be involved
Bob what we ask is that you attend Mark’s classroom session at the headquarters building Monday evening after the pilots meeting and dinner.  Then Tuesday morning you will attend a training on the LPad with a few volunteers flying demo flights.  You would then both fly and help judge just the Qualification rounds on Wednesday and Thursday.  After that you are finished judging and you just fly like everyone else.  So...sign you up?  BTW I should be able to get “Nats Volunteer” shirts for all the pilot/judges.  Still need one Open and three Advanced.

Dave
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #62 on: April 02, 2021, 01:44:22 PM »
How would this work on top 20 day? I see it working for qualifying because advanced and open are run separately, but not on top 20 day where it’s going on simultaneously

Good point.  Friday, “Top 20” day, requires two sets of judges for Open and two sets of judges for Advanced.  Running the events in parallel would put too few judges per circle ( two judges on three circles, one judge on one circle). You'd need to run them in series.  Consequences are: 1) if you have a lot of entrants, you would hit the F2B limit of 40 flights per day for a judge, 2) you could have six hours of stunt, with accompanying weather, 3) you wouldn't be able to use judges who would normally be shuffled around to avoid family members, 4) contestants who volunteered to judge in the qualifying rounds--Brett et al.--are shoo-ins to be flying Friday, so they couldn't judge. 

Dave better be prepared to deputize as judges several fliers who don't qualify to fly Friday. 
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Offline Howard Rush

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #63 on: April 02, 2021, 01:49:51 PM »
Its why sometimes "helpful suggestions" of the form "hey, why doesn't somebody just do X.."  sometimes gets a hostile reaction.

Especially when the suggestor pulls out a suggestion that proves he hasn't read the explanation that the suggestee had previously sent him, despite the explanation having been distilled into an easy-to-digest simulation.
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #64 on: April 02, 2021, 02:16:28 PM »
We may need to ask a few to continue Friday.  That is a situation we’d have to see develop when it does.  We are still miles ahead of where we would have been otherwise.  I’m quite sure it wouldn’t be too hard to find non-qualifiers to jump in.  Better than being a spectator at that point.  Most are watching every flight anyway.  May as well have a clipboard.

Dave
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #65 on: April 02, 2021, 07:39:00 PM »
Jim Vigani has joined the club as one of the pilot/judges in the Advanced group.

Also Marilee McMillan will join Jeannie DeMauro as score runners.

Larry Fruits will join Dennis Moritz as Pit Bosses

Thank You !!!!

Dave

As a side note:  One of the group asked whether they should register with AMA as Volunteers.  I hadn't given that any thought but those volunteers might should do this.  It may have something to do with insurance.  One thing is you would then be issued an 'Official' badge for site ID.  I think maybe I too should do this.......Pilots will already be registered.

Edited:  I goofed and misspelled Jeannie's name-my apologies .
« Last Edit: April 03, 2021, 06:18:49 AM by Dave_Trible »
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Offline Stuntflyn

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #66 on: April 03, 2021, 07:41:47 PM »
Hi Dave - Jim Smith here. Wayne and I are going to come this year, we have both been fully vaccinated though we will still use care.

Wayne is likely to fly, but I haven't finished my new Tracer yet, so I will just bring a ship to practice with. That makes me available to do Appearance Judging or Flight Scoring, I have done both. In a pinch I could probably run Howards program since we use it at the King Orange.

I am not sure Wayne's wife Kathy can come or not at this point. She does tabulations of Flight Scores using Howards program, so I'm sure she can also help in some capacity if she comes.

Her Mom is 92 years young and got out of the hospital about a month ago. She fell and had a compound fracture to her ankle and while in the hospital, she contracted Covid-19. Lol . . . she's too cantankerous to let a little Covid-19 slow her down.

Kathy does help care for her and that is why I am not sure yet if she is coming or not.

Whatever you need I am happy to help with.

Jim Smith

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #67 on: April 03, 2021, 07:54:18 PM »
Hi Jim...and you got a job!  You also can fit in a couple good places so we need to talk about it.  Send me a message or email with your telephone # and we will talk in the next few days.  If Kathy comes and wants to help the ladies on the tab team, they will welcome her.  I think  we have appearance covered tho I haven't talked to one of those guys in a while.  I expect you may either judge or work with the tab team. In any case thank you and we will talk soon.

Dave
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #68 on: April 04, 2021, 01:26:56 PM »
Could someone please post the link for online registration? I can't find it on AMA
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2021, 02:13:38 PM »
Robert on the home page is the blue line Home. About AMA, Membership etc.  Hover over Events.  You’ll get a drop down where you will find “National Aeromodelling Championships.  Click there.  You’ll then get the Nats page where you will click Register.  On the second row click on the PAMPA logo.  You are on your way....BTW they never changed the Event Contact.  It is I, no longer Mark.

Dave
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #70 on: April 04, 2021, 05:21:32 PM »
done thanks
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #71 on: April 04, 2021, 07:29:20 PM »
You're welcome.  Not the first who has asked about finding it.  It seems to be layered in there pretty well.

Dave
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Offline Doug Moon

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #72 on: April 05, 2021, 05:17:38 PM »
Especially when the suggestor pulls out a suggestion that proves he hasn't read the explanation that the suggestee had previously sent him, despite the explanation having been distilled into an easy-to-digest simulation.

This is a discussion board.  If suggestions are not welcome the thread should be locked and used an information post only.
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2021, 10:05:28 AM »
 Thought I would dove tail into Michele’s message concerning shirts.  We still need one Open pilot/ judge and two for Adanced.  We will get enough shirts anyway but it would be good to know we have the crew together.  I could be forced to license Brett into shaming.....

We have also gained Tampa’s own Jim Smith who will help us with computer operations,  among other duties.  Thank you Jim!

Dave
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #74 on: April 12, 2021, 02:31:14 PM »
David Shorts has put his hand up to be another Pilot/Judge.  Thank you David.  He and his dad Lannie (85) will both be coming.  That means we are now needing just one more each for Advanced and Open. 

Dave
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #75 on: April 14, 2021, 05:29:00 AM »
I'm informed this morning that Mark Hughes will fill out the Open group of Pilot/Judges.  Thank You Mark.  Now just one more from Advanced......

Dave
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #76 on: April 16, 2021, 12:58:02 PM »
I got an email from Yolanda at AMA asking us to remind everyone there is only two weeks left to register for the Nats before late entry fees kick in......Get R Done!

Dave
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Offline Matt Colan

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #77 on: April 16, 2021, 12:58:52 PM »
I got an email from Yolanda at AMA asking us to remind everyone there is only two weeks left to register for the Nats before late entry fees kick in......Get R Done!

Dave

Got mine sent in yesterday. Looking forward to it as always!
Matt Colan

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #78 on: April 22, 2021, 07:11:03 AM »
I wanted to put out a reminder to get entered on the AMA website within the next week to avoid any late fees. 
I just looked at entries for right now. We have:

Open   20

Advanced   17

I know there will be more entries, we had quite a few more last year.   However if we didn't,  Qualifying rounds would be nearly pointless.  We'd fly them anyway for practice!


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Offline Steve Fitton

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #79 on: April 22, 2021, 02:34:23 PM »
Wish I could make it, but the date change kills me.  Our last day of work as teachers is Monday 21 June.  It's exit meeting day so it's not like I can get a sub  :'(
Steve

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #80 on: April 22, 2021, 06:00:42 PM »
We will miss you Steve.....it's two or three now.....Next year we should be back to our regular schedule,  unless FAI tries a re-do of their plan for the RC worlds in Muncie.  On that subject I hope our guys can get to Poland for the CL Worlds.  I looked the other day and the Covid is really bad there right now.  The State Dept. is warning against travel to Poland and most everywhere in Europe. It's at their 'RED ZONE' rating. They seem to be a long way behind the US in vaccinations.  Let's hope that changes.

Dave
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Offline James Mills

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #81 on: April 22, 2021, 10:24:33 PM »
Ben and I registered this week.  Look forward to seeing everyone.

James
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #82 on: April 23, 2021, 01:29:28 PM »
Samantha Hines will be joining the judges crew.  Thank you Sammi!

Dave
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Offline Joseph Patterson

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #83 on: April 29, 2021, 03:17:35 PM »
          I sent you a PM DAVE. It's important.
               Doug

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #84 on: April 29, 2021, 03:40:34 PM »
Can’t find anything Doug.  Hit my regular email or text me.

Dave
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #85 on: May 01, 2021, 03:57:57 PM »
As mentioned elsewhere Doug and Kathleen Patterson won’t be able to make it this time.  We are wishing Doug good luck with his surgery and a rapid recovery.  Also looking forward to seeing them next year. 
I believe we will have Doug’s responsibilities covered but we sure could use someone to help us with uploading scores at the tabulation trailer.  Perhaps another of our great modeler wives might be willing or perhaps your college student?   If you’d like to help please let me know.

Thank you!

Dave
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Offline Allen Goff

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #86 on: May 02, 2021, 05:39:50 AM »
Dave, just checked registration and as of May 2 we have 26 in each expert and advance. I’m sure we’ll have many late entries.
Looking like we’ll have decent turnout.
Blessings  #^

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #87 on: May 02, 2021, 06:29:40 AM »
Yes Allen I think so.  Sometimes also the AMA lags a few days getting entries listed on the website so we may already have more we don't know about yet.  I know of several coming this time who didn't last year due to the virus so yes I feel sure we will have a better turnout than last year-and last year surprised me.  Looks like fun!

Dave
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Offline Allen Goff

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #88 on: May 03, 2021, 03:06:54 PM »
Dave, PM sent. Mike Eber?
Blessings
Allen

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #89 on: May 03, 2021, 05:10:05 PM »
Allen I got it and spoke to Mike this afternoon..Thanks for tracking him down for me.  He will again judge and appearance judge this year.  Mark Gerber will join the judges staff for the first time this year and Bob Brookins has agreed to run Classic/OT/N30 once again.

Thanks to all

Dave
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Offline Dave Rigotti

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #90 on: May 04, 2021, 11:51:08 AM »
Has an Intermediate Aerobatics event director been named yet?
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #91 on: May 04, 2021, 01:06:34 PM »
 Bob Brookins will repeat as ED for Intermediate Aerobatics.
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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #92 on: May 04, 2021, 01:23:15 PM »
I'll assume he has the final say on appearance points or not?

Bob Brookins will repeat as ED for Intermediate Aerobatics.
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #93 on: May 04, 2021, 01:27:27 PM »
Yes that’s what I pay him for.....er....

Dave
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Offline Dave Rigotti

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #94 on: May 04, 2021, 01:35:58 PM »
Dave,
What's the best way to contact him?  He hasn't been on SH since July 2018.

Yes that’s what I pay him for.....er....

Dave
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #95 on: May 04, 2021, 01:39:31 PM »
Bob has no computer or cell phone.  I won’t openly give out the number.  I’ll try to call him tonight after work.

Dave
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #96 on: May 09, 2021, 08:56:44 AM »
The final PRE-ENTRY numbers are in.  They are:

Open    32
Advanced.     27
Jr.     1
Sr.     1

I expect an additional 2-3 late entries in all categories so we will be at about pre-pandemic norms for the past 5 or 6 years!  We have the staff largely in place but still wish for another one or two to help tabulation.  I think it is now the time to proclaim:

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!!
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Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #97 on: May 09, 2021, 07:14:26 PM »
I noticed from a post before,  my answer after I had talked to Bob Brookins about Intermediate appearance judging somehow failed to register here (?).  Elaine dug up score sheets from last year and yes indeed, they did and will judge for appearance.

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Offline M. Scott

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #98 on: May 09, 2021, 07:30:31 PM »
What if I have entered and cannot find my name . I talked to Yolanda
last Thursday and she said I was entered, but I Still cannot find my Name.
Just looking for a little help. what to do next?
Mike

Offline Dave_Trible

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Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
« Reply #99 on: May 10, 2021, 05:08:34 AM »
If you are looking on the website for your name I wouldn't worry about it.  Names get added to the website sometimes days after you enter (or perhaps not at all).  That isn't the official register.  I think an intern does that in their spare time.  In any event you will check in Monday as we begin processing and won't get left out.

Dave
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