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General control line discussion => Open Forum => Topic started by: Dave_Trible on January 29, 2021, 08:55:31 AM

Title: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on January 29, 2021, 08:55:31 AM
Today we begin the official Nats thread for 2021.
Howard Rush has done the official pilots seeding and will post shortly along with explaining the procedure for any who don’t understand how it works.
At this time we are recruiting our staff of judges, tabulators, pit bosses, etc., any and all volunteers are welcome and we ask you let us know your interest in helping ASAP.
Your Assistant Director will be Michele Lee
Your Head Judge will be Mark Overmier.
Doug Patterson will be in charge of Classic/N30 and Old Time.
The official dates are June 20-26, 2021.  Unofficial events will begin on the 19th and the site will be open for practice beginning on the 17th.
Until now I have been pessimistic about holding the Nats this year due to the ongoing Corona virus which is considerably worse than last year.  However now I am much more optimistic as it is likely any of us ‘oldsters’ who wish to be vaccinated should be able to in plenty of time so as to make the virus a minimal issue for us.  Even so we will continue the protocol we began last year for safety.

Dave Trible
2021 Nats CLPA Event Director
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Howard Rush on January 29, 2021, 03:39:34 PM
Here is circle seeding for the 2021 stunt Nats.  I did it using the same seeding formula that was used for previous stunt Nats.  The seeding formula is based on Open, Expert, and Advanced Nats placing for the last 10 years.  US team members not attending the Nats during a world champs year are included, ranked the same as Open Nats winners.  I attached a copy of the seeding spreadsheet.  I put the seeding into the Nats stunt tabulation program.  The tabulation program is too big to attach here, but I'll send it to anybody who wants it.  I encourage everybody to look at these spreadsheets and critique them.  Here are the top 20 seeds:

1 Paul Walker
2 Orestes Hernandez
3 Derek Barry
4 David Fitzgerald
5 Chris Rud
6 Kenny Stevens
7 Joe Gilbert
8 Howard Rush
9 Matt Neumann
10 Robert McDonald
11 Kaz Minato
12 William DeMauro
13 Todd Lee
14 Richard Oliver
15 Chris Cox
16 Joseph Daly
17 Michael McHenry
18 Michael Schmitt
19 James Mills
20 Brett Buck

For the top 20 in Open and Advanced for the last ten years, first place gets 20 points, second place gets 19, and so on.  US Team members who were out of town for the WC get 20 points each.  Scores get multiplied by 10 for 2020, 9 for 2019, and so on.  Advanced scores are then multiplied by .5.  William DeMauro’s score includes both his Open and Advanced placings, for example.  I combined the Expert and Advanced placings for 2013 and 2014. 

Top score is seeded #1.  Guys who haven't placed in the top 20 in either Advanced or Open in the last ten years are unseeded.  Their assignment to one of the four groups for qualifying rounds is done by random draw.
 
The tabulation program tosses out seeds that are not entered at the current Nats and moves those who are entered up to fill in gaps.  For example, if Paul Walker doesn't show up for this year’s Nats, the tabulation program will bump everybody else up a notch.

This seeding is only used to distribute contestants among circles for qualifying.  It might make the circles more uniform, but it has little effect on the outcome of the contest.  Seeding is not an indication of one's worth as a person, which is obvious for seven cases above.  Here is a crude analysis I did on the effect of Nats qualification rounds seeding: http://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/nats-seeding/

Although seeding has little effect--none at all on the top handful of fliers-- using a formula published in advance removes any arbitrariness about circle assignment.
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Gary Dowler on January 29, 2021, 09:27:44 PM
Having never been to the Nats, I am considering going this year, if for no other reason than the experience of the event.  If I can arrange the proper time off. Typically how tight are hotels booked up? 

Gary
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on January 30, 2021, 05:01:36 AM
Gary right now through February reservations are easy.  Years where the Iron Man competition is happening at the same time it's near impossible and quite high priced.  Best bet is to get in early. 

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on January 30, 2021, 11:19:01 AM
Just confirmed Mike Stinson will be again running Beginner Stunt among other duties.  He is currently fighting Covid but is recovering.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on February 01, 2021, 10:21:31 AM
Official daily schedule:

Saturday June 19
Practice on grass fields and L pad 7 am till dark  (also likely Friday as well)

Sunday June 20
Beginner and Intermediate  Aerobatics
Location; grass circles
Practice 7 am
Registration 8 am
Pilots meeting 8:30 am
First flight 9 am

Monday June 21
Practice 7 am till dark.
Pilot/airplane processing/appearance judging begins 1 pm,  closes precisely 2:30 pm
Location: Tent at the L pad.
Pilots meeting to follow at the tent.
The Concourse walk and voting will follow.  Since this is outdoors, in the event of rain the walk may be delayed until the following day.  Any change will be posted on the scoreboard.
Judges classroom session TBD
Pilots will receive circle assignments and flight schedules
ENTRIES FOR CLASSIC/N30/OLD TIME will be done at the Pavilion before and after the Pilots Meeting (preferred) and at the field Tuesday morning.

Tuesday June 22
Practice 7 am till dark
Classic, Nostalgia 30, Old Time Stunt
Location; grass circles unless washed out due to rain-then the L pad.
8 am Pilots meeting
8:30 am first flight
Judges flight training TBD

Wednesday June 23
Judges warm up flights Circle 4, 7 am
Practice 7 till 8 am on the L pad.
Open, Advanced Aerobatics
Location: L pad, and for all remaining events
7 am Judges warm up flights Circle 4
8 am Qualifying round 1 begins per circle assignments
After lunch break round 2 will begin

Thursday June 24
Judges warm up flights Circle 4, 7 am
Practice 7 till 8 am
8 am Qualifying resumes rounds 3 and 4
Announcement of Qualifiers follows conclusion of flying
Circle and flight order assignments issued

Friday June 25
Judges warm up flights Circle 4, 7 am
Practice 7 till 8 am
8 am Advanced Finals, Open Semi-Finals ( Top 20*)
Presentation of Winners Advanced and Open Top 5 assignments follows the conclusion of flying
Junior and Senior processing and appearance judging at the Pavilion.



Saturday June 26
Judges warm up flights Circle 4, 7 am
Open finals begin 8 am, Circles 3 and 4
Junior and Aerobatics Circle 2
Awards presentation follows the conclusion of flying

Notes:
* If the Open and/or Advanced entry level is below a certain threshold it is possible:
     1. There may be a reduced number of pilots moving forward into final rounds.
     2. The number of circles used could be reduced. This could also occur with a shortage of judges.
Please stay aware of your circle/pit assignments and get there early.  DON'T make the staff come track you down.  We do not have time or manpower to do this.  If you are not in place and ready to fly on time you MAY be called with an attempt.  Be aware in later rounds some pilots choose to 'pass' which will move your flight time forward rapidly, be prepared. We suggest you get into the pits when the fourth flight ahead of you is airborne.  If you have conflicts with other events let the management know ASAP and we may be able to work around them with limitations.
Further instructions will be given at the Pilots Meeting.
We will be monitoring any foul weather closely and will shut down operations for safety if necessary.  Pop-up storms are common in Muncie.
Please be virus-conscious and respectful of other's space.  Cleaning materials will be made available.

Thank You

the Management


Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on February 01, 2021, 12:19:38 PM
Today I’ll present the covergirl for the Official 2021 “I made the cut “ T shirts for Nats Open and Advanced Qualifiers:
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Paul Walker on February 02, 2021, 06:57:40 PM
Today I’ll present the covergirl for the Official 2021 “I made the cut “ T shirts for Nats Open and Advanced Qualifiers:

Gee, maybe I'll get one!  😈😈😝😂😂
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Gary Dowler on February 02, 2021, 08:37:59 PM
Dave, thanks for the details. Is there any detail available for scale ? Specifically, sport scale?

Gary
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on February 03, 2021, 04:57:45 AM
Gary I'm sorry I don't keep up with that.  Keep an eye on the scale section here.  Allen Goff will add details there.   Paul the shirts were a hot commodity last year-you may have to really work for one.......;-)).

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on February 03, 2021, 12:56:42 PM
Nats registration is NOW OPEN  on the AMA website!!!

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Shorts,David on February 04, 2021, 01:27:24 PM

  Seeding is not an indication of one's worth as a person, which is obvious for seven cases above. 

 LL~ LL~ LL~
Thanks for a good laugh today, Howard.

David
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Matt Piatkowski on February 14, 2021, 11:37:48 AM
Hi Dave,
Where exactly I have to go to register for the Advanced Stunt during the 2021 NATS?
Thank you,
Matt
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on February 14, 2021, 12:13:24 PM
Matt go to the AMA website.  Peck your way into the ‘events’ section and you should find the on-line entry form.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Matt Piatkowski on February 14, 2021, 01:33:55 PM
Dave,

The AMA website did not allow me to use the on-line entry form without login.

I have tried to register myself using my email address and newly created password but it did not work.

Now what?

 
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on February 14, 2021, 01:53:09 PM
If you are a member and then a registered on line user it should work.  If is a computer issue then I’d just call AMA tomorrow.  I haven’t had reason to try it myself this year but maybe will try to “enter” myself and see if it’s all working.  Yolanda was tweaking it just a couple days ago and I had her make a small correction.  I’d still assume it’s live.

Dave

Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Alan Buck on February 14, 2021, 02:56:50 PM
i had to call to register  tried web site not up March 1
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on February 14, 2021, 03:03:53 PM
I just looked at it.  It seems to be up and going..

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Matt Piatkowski on February 15, 2021, 07:37:26 AM
Hi again Dave,
I am Canadian from Toronto, Ontario.
My MAAC # is 89300.

Do I have to become also the AMA member for one year for $ 75 USD to participate in the Advanced Stunt contest during 2021 US Nats?

Technical question: I know that people flying electric stunt in the US Nats must have the "Safety Plug" in their models.
This plug, in my opinion, is redundant and I can explain why.

I know that AMA electric stunt rules were created many years ago when the timers were a bit shaky. It was understandable then to have a "Safety Plug" to prevent an accidental motor start.
Now, the timers are rock solid and the "Safety Plug" is just another 1/2 oz.

Can you connect me with somebody who can discuss this issue with me?
Thank you,
M

Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Brad LaPointe on February 15, 2021, 09:40:29 AM
Matt,

MAAC members can fly in the United States without AMA membership. AMA members can fly in Canada without MAAC membership.

The big question is will you be able to go to the U.S. anytime soon . My guess until we achieve much lower infection rates and 70 - 80% vaccination rates the border will remain closed except for essential personnel. You can fly to the U.S. (for now) but it will cost you $2000 for a quarantine hotel room upon return .

Brad LaPointe
MAAC 5418L
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Ken Culbertson on February 15, 2021, 10:10:52 AM
The big question is will you be able to go to the U.S. anytime soon

Just say you are an asylum seeker and come in through the Mexican border.  Everybody gets in again and there is no Covid-19 check or quarantine.
May have a hard time explaining the models but you could ship them to someone in Muncie.

Isn't it fun - Ken
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on February 15, 2021, 10:16:52 AM
Matt,  Brad knew something I didn’t about not needing an AMA license across the border (thanks!).  However the software program might still be looking for an AMA number to proceed electronically.  You better just call them to inquire. 
Brad may also be correct about how things go with virus.  Time will tell us.
Your last issue about the safety plug is totally non-negotiable.  These rules are put in place by the Controline Contest board and a discussion with ‘anyone’ about that is pointless.  Having witnessed an electric airplane stop and start on its own four or five times in one flight at our last team Trials I completely understand why the rule. 

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Matt Piatkowski on February 15, 2021, 10:40:07 AM
Hello Brad,
This is what I thought but I will call AMA tomorrow to be absolutely certain.

Going or not going there because of Covid is another issue - the next three months will show.

Hi Dave,
Ok. I will have the "Safety Plug" installed in my planes.

Comment: there are many rules, not only in the C/L Stunt World, that were valid and needed when they were created many years ago.
                 I know also that the people involved in the C/L Stunt in the US, Canada, and F2B in the EU are very traditional and do not like changes.

It is not that scary to evaluate the merit of the rule. Nobody will "lose face" in the process.
The main problem may be a lack of technical knowledge in the particular area.  In other words " we do not know therefore it is better to do nothing".

Regards,
M

 



 


Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Brett Buck on February 15, 2021, 11:01:22 AM
Technical question: I know that people flying electric stunt in the US Nats must have the "Safety Plug" in their models.
This plug, in my opinion, is redundant and I can explain why.

I know that AMA electric stunt rules were created many years ago when the timers were a bit shaky. It was understandable then to have a "Safety Plug" to prevent an accidental motor start.
Now, the timers are rock solid and the "Safety Plug" is just another 1/2 oz.

Can you connect me with somebody who can discuss this issue with me?

     How about me, since I wrote it? 

    Technically, you don't have to have an arming plug - you can just hook up the battery with the regular connector, you just have to have someone hold on to it until it is disarmed again.

    But you are going to have to do that, because, we are not going to rely on low-level logic states to not glitch the timer "on" unexpectedly. Nothing whatsoever has changed about the underlying problem since the rule was written (or in fact when the problem first became apparent in aerospace electronics in the 60's). This is also a relatively new rule, I was waiting for some of the usual suspects to write the same thing (since there was near-universal agreement on the topic).

   Note that this  removable connection *must be mechanical*, that is, it has to physically disconnect the battery - no transistor switches or SCRs, etc. 

      Brett

p.s. start here:

https://stunthanger.com/smf/rules-discussions/potential-new-rule-for-electric/

I would also note that this was a de facto NATs safety rule *before* it was in the AMA rule book, and that the original rule was a bit more restrictive than it is now. I think got in the rule book in 2013.
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Brad LaPointe on February 15, 2021, 11:10:51 AM
Politics will probably determine when the border opens . It would be political suicide to open the border and have another outbreak.

When the party in power keeps talking about a return to normal and the vaccinations to be widespread by September it would shock me if the border reopened before then . My guess is that about that time   frame if things are going well Canada will probably be headed for a federal election. Stay tuned .

Brad
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Matt Piatkowski on February 15, 2021, 01:16:32 PM
Hello Brett,
On October 02, 2011, you wrote: "  I think that unplugging the battery constitutes a "mechanical" connection....".

Exactly.

During the official stunt / F2B contest there is always somebody holding the electric model while the pilot, after connecting the battery, waving to the judges, and flipping the electrical switch, walks to the handle.

The safety plug ( arming plug ) is completely redundant if the helper is present and he is.

M






 



Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dennis Nunes on February 15, 2021, 02:10:16 PM
There was a situation that happened at last years NATs involving Paul Walker's first flight in the Open Finals. If I recall the events correctly, Paul had just finished his flight and his helper who was attending to the plane had not secured or "disarmed" the plane by pulling his arming plug. By the time his helper disarmed the plane, Paul inadvertently switched the handle from his right hand to his left hand "before" his helper disarmed the plane. This resulted in Paul receiving a 0 score for his first flight. Is this a correct interpretation of this rule?

Dennis
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Howard Rush on February 15, 2021, 02:26:25 PM
No.
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dan McEntee on February 15, 2021, 03:14:27 PM
Hello Brett,
On October 02, 2011, you wrote: "  I think that unplugging the battery constitutes a "mechanical" connection....".

Exactly.

During the official stunt / F2B contest there is always somebody holding the electric model while the pilot, after connecting the battery, waving to the judges, and flipping the electrical switch, walks to the handle.

The safety plug ( arming plug ) is completely redundant if the helper is present and he is.

M


    I have built more R/C electric sailplanes than electric c/l models years ago. Well, in fact I have never built an electric c/l model! But we always used an arming plug in addition to a switch back then. Unplugging the battery may suffice to meet the rule, but on many full fuselage models, installing the battery is a bit complicated, requires a lot of handling of the model  and such and it's just not convenient to easily plug and unplug the battery. An arming plug can be incorporated in a way that it is easy for the helper or pilot to do with one hand while hold the model with the other, and still make them pleasing to the eye so to speak. It's very little work to do but well worth the effort considering the power we are talking about that these things put out now.
    Type at you later,
    Dan McEntee
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Brett Buck on February 15, 2021, 03:47:20 PM
There was a situation that happened at last years NATs involving Paul Walker's first flight in the Open Finals. If I recall the events correctly, Paul had just finished his flight and his helper who was attending to the plane had not secured or "disarmed" the plane by pulling his arming plug. By the time his helper disarmed the plane, Paul inadvertently switched the handle from his right hand to his left hand "before" his helper disarmed the plane. This resulted in Paul receiving a 0 score for his first flight. Is this a correct interpretation of this rule?

  Not of the current rule book version. It may well be a correct implication of the special NATs rule regarding this (that predated the official one). The initial version (before 2011) was that removing the safety thong before disarming the model was not allowed. I intentionally removed that based on comments here, and the altered version is the one in the rule book.

    It's OK to have different rules for the NATs, and I have to admit I wasn't paying any attention to what was briefed at the pilot's meeting last year, so I don't know.

   The reasoning behind the rule book version was that we want single-failure safety, that is, if it starts unexpectedly, someone also has to drop the handle before it is unsafe. So just holding the handle is good enough, including handing it off to your helper while you go to disarm the airplane.

     Requiring the safety thong, too, is dual-failure tolerant, because if the airplane starts unexpectedly AND you drop the handle (two failures, not one) then you still have the thong backing you up. It's OK to be safer, but this does exceed the levels of margin/tolerance we use for everything else in stunt (like the pull test) and does cause minor operational restrictions like not being able to hand off your handle to someone else.

      If it had been me, and I hadn't paid attention (which is shame on me), I would have expected the rule book version, and may have gotten burned on the same issue were I flying electric.

    I don't know what version will be used, but fortunately, we know the CD!

     Brett

     
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Matt Piatkowski on February 16, 2021, 10:33:34 AM
I have created a separate thread titled " Safe Arming of Electric Stunt Models" in http://stunthanger.com/smf/rules-discussions.

Thank you,
M
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on February 20, 2021, 12:46:34 PM
Got an email from Mark Weiss telling me the RC Worlds at Muncie has been canceled.....

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: mike londke on February 20, 2021, 02:01:44 PM
Got an email from Mark Weiss telling me the RC Worlds at Muncie has been canceled.....

Dave
Yolanda has already replied on the AMA FB page that nothing has changed for 2021 Nats dates already established. The announcement affects only the F3 events that were scheduled at Muncie in July. I think the decision to cancel F3 World events was probably made due to so many competitors coming from other nations and the problems associated with traveling during the pandemic. Our 2021 Nats should remain unaffected. I do wonder about the Poland 2020 World F2 events rescheduled for 2021. I have read their cut off date for a go/no go decision is 4/30.
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on February 20, 2021, 04:46:49 PM
Yeah Mike still more questions.  Someone has asked me about if it be possible to move us back to July.   That horse has left the barn but I WILL call Monday to see if it might be caught.  I saw the CL Worlds schedule well in to August.  Lets hope our guys get to go this time.  If so that raises a question;  If they go I'd think we should have a team trials this year for the next team assuming the 2022 Worlds is back on schedule.  Our team would barely be able to get home in time for a trials Labor Day weekend.  How strange would it be to do that in JULY around the typical Nats time-ahead of the 2020/21 Worlds?.. Just food for thought.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on February 23, 2021, 04:53:24 PM
I communicated with AMA today and it looks like they are committed to us staying in June with our Nats.  That's not too many weeks out so start getting your game in order.  I get my first vaccination Friday..........Hope everyone (who will) gets the opportunity in plenty of time.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Howard Rush on March 14, 2021, 08:09:30 PM
I’ll bump this up to make finding the schedule easier.
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on March 15, 2021, 09:00:07 AM
We are making progress getting our Nats volunteer crew together but still need a few more brave souls to come forward.  We have eight judges but really need 10 and preferably 12.  Another person for the tabulation team and another pit boss are also needed.   I truly believe that due to the vaccines the virus will be no obstacle to we older crowd to get out of the house.  Perhaps you haven’t been to a Nats or it’s been a while.  Maybe you are one of our ‘retired’ competition pilots who would like to see old friends and catch up with what’s going on in stuntdom.  Why not join the team?  Let us know soon so we can fill out our empty spots.  Thanks!

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on March 22, 2021, 10:28:01 AM
As of this morning we have 8 Open and 10 Advanced entries recorded.  It’s still early but remember the Nats comes early this year so don’t let it slip up on you.  That goes for hotel reservations as well.  We haven’t received any more volunteers since my last call.  If you plan to help please don’t wait too long to let us know.  AMA is already calling for shirt orders for the volunteers and we need to be able to adjust how we do things based on manpower.  We eagerly await....

Thanks!

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: John Lindberg on March 22, 2021, 01:04:54 PM
Dave, what is the cut-off date for registering (with the AMA) for the Control line Stunt Nats?
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on March 22, 2021, 02:38:22 PM
Strangely I can’t find it on the AMA site.  I think it’s about the 30th of May.  If I find different I’ll post it.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: John Lindberg on March 22, 2021, 03:03:37 PM
The AMA web-site does not help much, in my opinion. HB~>
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on March 28, 2021, 12:41:57 PM
A couple notes...I’ve been told the cut off date for Nats entries without a late penalty is May 1st.
Our pit boss this year will be Larry Fruits.  Thank you Larry!
I’m still in search of a few good folks to judge and perhaps another gal to help out with the tabulation group.  Please come forward.  We will be needing to send our volunteer shirt order in very soon and need to know.  Also without at least a couple more judges we MAY need to revise the computer applications and perhaps reduce the number of circles regardless of the number of entries.  If you think you would like to step up to help please don’t delay.

Thanks!

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: John Lindberg on March 30, 2021, 07:23:40 AM
A couple notes...I’ve been told the cut off date for Nats entries without a late penalty is May 1st.
Our pit boss this year will be Larry Fruits.  Thank you Larry!
I’m still in search of a few good folks to judge and perhaps another gal to help out with the tabulation group.  Please come forward.  We will be needing to send our volunteer shirt order in very soon and need to know.  Also without at least a couple more judges we MAY need to revise the computer applications and perhaps reduce the number of circles regardless of the number of entries.  If you think you would like to step up to help please don’t delay.

Thanks!
Thanks, Dave, that helps.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 01, 2021, 01:26:56 PM
Today we have an important announcement.  Due to having a very skeletal cast of characters (crew of judges) our bud Dennis Adamisin brought up an idea to help.  I discussed it with the head judge and a few other key folks and I have decided to implement it for the Nats at least for this year.  For Qualifying rounds we will enlist a few of the PILOTS to help the full time judges to judge a class they aren’t flying in.  There will be four each from Open and Advanced.  They will go through the regular judges training on site with Mark Overmier.  We will take a break between flying classes to allow the pilot/judges to move and set up where they need to be.  I already have two volunteers from the Open flyers.  I’ll need two more Open and four Advanced to raise your hand to help.  If you’d like to be one email me .

VegasDave4@gmail.com

Thanks!

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Brett Buck on April 01, 2021, 03:04:46 PM
Today we have an important announcement.  Due to having a very skeletal cast of characters (crew of judges) our bud Dennis Adamisin brought up an idea to help.  I discussed it with the head judge and a few other key folks and I have decided to implement it for the Nats at least for this year.  For Qualifying rounds we will enlist a few of the PILOTS to help the full time judges to judge a class they aren’t flying in.  There will be four each from Open and Advanced.  They will go through the regular judges training on site with Mark Overmier.  We will take a break between flying classes to allow the pilot/judges to move and set up where they need to be.  I already have two volunteers from the Open flyers.  I’ll need two more Open and four Advanced to raise your hand to help.  If you’d like to be one email me .

VegasDave4@gmail.com

Thanks!

Dave

  I will do it, if all it entails is doing the on-site training flights.  I need to learn how to get up early anyway!

      Brett
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 01, 2021, 03:08:12 PM
Thanks Brett!  That’s what they make coffee for.  Got you down.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Brett Buck on April 01, 2021, 03:10:04 PM
Thanks Brett!  That’s what they make coffee for.  Got you down.

Dave

   Where else would one prefer to be than Muncie, Indiana at 7 AM?

    Brett
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Doug Moon on April 01, 2021, 03:26:49 PM
So,,, you are going to have an Advanced pilot or Open pilot judge an entire group then they go fly?  What?  So when the Advanced judge is up on the his circle the Open group will have to stop and wait the 30 minutes or so it will take to complete that task.  Then he comes back and the Open group starts up again.  I see a logistical nightmare in the making.

When I judged full time it was exhausting. I liked it, I learned alot, I am better flyer for it but I was dead tired at the end of the rounds.  The moons went to bed early all week that week. And that nats wasnt that heavily attended. And I never got my judge shirt or hat... If you're and Advanced flier judging open and there are 8 open fliers on that circle your going to watch 16 flights and fly 2 yourself.  Then do it again the next day.

I think BB volunteered to Fly not judge.....??  Or did I misread that?

There is another way you could attack it.  Example: circle 1 has 7 open fliers.  Flier 1 goes up and the other 6 judge. Flier 2 goes up same other 6 judge etc. etc.. Now you have the fliers in the group judging their own group minus themselves of course because they are flying. Each group has the burden of only their group to judge.  Then when the Open guys are done they move off and the Advanced guys start up and judge the same way.  Everyone will have the same amount of exposure to judging throughout the day and you have covered your judge shortage with people who will already be there. And you have no logistical issue with pilot/judge needing to leave to fly in his order somewhere else.  Just an idea....

Or, if you are running short trying to spread over 4 circles just use 2.  If people dont like that they can volunteer to judge so the competition can go on like normal.
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 01, 2021, 05:06:38 PM
Doug I know we will have a few logistical things to work out but I don't think it will be that complicated.  To look at an example, let's see what it SHOULD look like on any one circle;  So on Circle 1 we may typically have, say 8 Advanced and 8 Open pilots.  The Advanced usually fly first.  The Open guys sort of 'hang out' for two plus hours and wait their turn.  Ideally one of this Open group grabs a clipboard and judges the Advanced group of eight on his circle.  When the Advanced group is done that circle takes a break for maybe 15 minutes while the Open group gets ready and ONE Advanced pilot grabs the clipboard to judge.  Copy that on on four circles.  The ideal situation would have one Pilot/Judge working with two full time judges.  That could vary depending on who volunteers and where seeding places them (which circles).  If we happen to have two-three volunteers on one circle we may have to partner that circle with another one so that they run and break in unison so the volunteer can go work another circle if need be to judge.  We may find it advantageous to run ALL FOUR circles on the same time table, even if that means one circle finishes an hour early and waits.  We are usually done quite early in the day anyway so we can run a little longer those days if we need to.
Why do all this?  We at best right now have 7 confirmed full time judges and another probable.  To function normally for four circles and to best use our computer programs and so forth we really need about 12 judges.  We simply don't have and I'm not seeing them coming down the road.(This year nor into the future).  If we try to run with what we have only we will likely have to doctor the programming and actually Howard really doesn't have the time to do it right now but even so it still leaves us in a pickle if we lost ANYBODY for any reason.  I think most pilots would really like at least three judges on their circle to more normalize their average score.  We did a couple circles with two last year and it went OK but .......
Another benefit is that in this way we can provide some training and actual experience judging at this level, hopefully creating an enlarged pool of future judging talent.  This is demonstrating we need it.  We could cut circles (maybe) but again possible issues with programs but also a VERY long day for the judges on those first two Qualifying days.  We undoubtedly will find some bumps in the road but thats how we learn.  We have a bunch of very fine minds here involved in the process.  I hope we can spot issues and get out in front of them.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Howard Rush on April 01, 2021, 05:18:38 PM
There is another way you could attack it.  Example: circle 1 has 7 open fliers.  Flier 1 goes up and the other 6 judge. Flier 2 goes up same other 6 judge etc. etc.. Now you have the fliers in the group judging their own group minus themselves of course because they are flying. Each group has the burden of only their group to judge.  Then when the Open guys are done they move off and the Advanced guys start up and judge the same way.  Everyone will have the same amount of exposure to judging throughout the day and you have covered your judge shortage with people who will already be there. And you have no logistical issue with pilot/judge needing to leave to fly in his order somewhere else.  Just an idea....

It's a way to keep scores down.
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: mark overmier on April 01, 2021, 05:19:10 PM
What if we gave the pilot/judges an added incentive to judge? What if we let the volunteer judge choose their flight placement on their circle for the rounds they are judging? For example if an Open pilot is judging Advanced first, then the judge/pilot could choose where in the order they want to fly, first, last, or in the middle. When they get to choose their flight order would still need to be be determined. Do you let them choose that morning? Right before the round starts? Or when the ping pong ball flight order is picked.

Just a thought.

Mark
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 01, 2021, 05:56:08 PM
Oh dredd the ping pong ball!

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Brett Buck on April 01, 2021, 06:04:34 PM
What if we gave the pilot/judges an added incentive to judge? What if we let the volunteer judge choose their flight placement on their circle for the rounds they are judging? For example if an Open pilot is judging Advanced first, then the judge/pilot could choose where in the order they want to fly, first, last, or in the middle. When they get to choose their flight order would still need to be be determined. Do you let them choose that morning? Right before the round starts? Or when the ping pong ball flight order is picked.


   If it's still a problem in a few days, I will shame someone into it. Although anything that gets me away from the deadly ping-pong balls - which are clearly against me - is to the good.

   Depending on how the order works out, it may end up being out of your hands, because we now have the same issue we have at local contests, where the judge is supposed to fly on another circle.

    Brett
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Matt Colan on April 01, 2021, 06:39:45 PM
Today we have an important announcement.  Due to having a very skeletal cast of characters (crew of judges) our bud Dennis Adamisin brought up an idea to help.  I discussed it with the head judge and a few other key folks and I have decided to implement it for the Nats at least for this year.  For Qualifying rounds we will enlist a few of the PILOTS to help the full time judges to judge a class they aren’t flying in.  There will be four each from Open and Advanced.  They will go through the regular judges training on site with Mark Overmier.  We will take a break between flying classes to allow the pilot/judges to move and set up where they need to be.  I already have two volunteers from the Open flyers.  I’ll need two more Open and four Advanced to raise your hand to help.  If you’d like to be one email me .

VegasDave4@gmail.com

Thanks!

Dave

How would this work on top 20 day? I see it working for qualifying because advanced and open are run separately, but not on top 20 day where it’s going on simultaneously
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 01, 2021, 06:57:50 PM
Matt the pilot/judges are done after the Qualifying days.  The full time judges take over the rest-as long as we still have 7-8.  Six on Saturday.

So tonight I have:

Open pilot/judges
Dennis Adamisin
John Paris
Brett Buck
___________

Advanced pilot/judges
Mark Weiss
___________
___________
___________

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: john e. holliday on April 01, 2021, 10:07:20 PM
One way is to let the fliers who volunteer to judge a class fly first in the class they entered before they judge.  But, like you stated who ever flies first will judge the rest of his class for that round and second round let the person who judged first in first in first round fly second round when he is ready.  Both classes.  Of course it going to take a lot of score sheets and tabulation. ???
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Ken Culbertson on April 01, 2021, 11:10:25 PM
The fine ladies that volunteer to keep our sport running should not be allowed to read this thread!


Ken
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 02, 2021, 05:01:39 AM
It's hard to appreciate that there are HUNDREDS of score sheets to make and then to tally.  This is long hard work.  However this method will create no more than if we had the regular compliment of 12 judges.  We simply couldn't do this at all without our crew of tabulators who happen to be all ladies.  BTW-another will be greatly appreciated! At normal strength, given our multiple events it takes 24-28 people to put the Nats on.  Thats more than many small companies have to run a business.  All the volunteers are priceless.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Doug Moon on April 02, 2021, 09:38:25 AM
Doug I know we will have a few logistical things to work out but I don't think it will be that complicated.  To look at an example, let's see what it SHOULD look like on any one circle;  So on Circle 1 we may typically have, say 8 Advanced and 8 Open pilots.  The Advanced usually fly first.  The Open guys sort of 'hang out' for two plus hours and wait their turn.  Ideally one of this Open group grabs a clipboard and judges the Advanced group of eight on his circle.  When the Advanced group is done that circle takes a break for maybe 15 minutes while the Open group gets ready and ONE Advanced pilot grabs the clipboard to judge.  Copy that on on four circles.  The ideal situation would have one Pilot/Judge working with two full time judges.  That could vary depending on who volunteers and where seeding places them (which circles).  If we happen to have two-three volunteers on one circle we may have to partner that circle with another one so that they run and break in unison so the volunteer can go work another circle if need be to judge.  We may find it advantageous to run ALL FOUR circles on the same time table, even if that means one circle finishes an hour early and waits.  We are usually done quite early in the day anyway so we can run a little longer those days if we need to.
Why do all this?  We at best right now have 7 confirmed full time judges and another probable.  To function normally for four circles and to best use our computer programs and so forth we really need about 12 judges.  We simply don't have and I'm not seeing them coming down the road.(This year nor into the future).  If we try to run with what we have only we will likely have to doctor the programming and actually Howard really doesn't have the time to do it right now but even so it still leaves us in a pickle if we lost ANYBODY for any reason.  I think most pilots would really like at least three judges on their circle to more normalize their average score.  We did a couple circles with two last year and it went OK but .......
Another benefit is that in this way we can provide some training and actual experience judging at this level, hopefully creating an enlarged pool of future judging talent.  This is demonstrating we need it.  We could cut circles (maybe) but again possible issues with programs but also a VERY long day for the judges on those first two Qualifying days.  We undoubtedly will find some bumps in the road but thats how we learn.  We have a bunch of very fine minds here involved in the process.  I hope we can spot issues and get out in front of them.

Dave

You have a good point there about exposing more people to judging at this level. But if you go back and review my possible solution you would then expose the ENTIRE competing body to judging at his level.  Just a thought.

With my idea I am not sure how it would narrow for the top 20 etc..
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Brett Buck on April 02, 2021, 11:22:00 AM
It's hard to appreciate that there are HUNDREDS of score sheets to make and then to tally.  This is long hard work.  However this method will create no more than if we had the regular compliment of 12 judges.  We simply couldn't do this at all without our crew of tabulators who happen to be all ladies.  BTW-another will be greatly appreciated! At normal strength, given our multiple events it takes 24-28 people to put the Nats on.  Thats more than many small companies have to run a business.  All the volunteers are priceless.

  The fact that almost no one even knows it happens is a great tribute to how well it has been done. The sheer volume of the operation is staggering.

    The long-time competitors know what goes on and greatly appreciate it. Its why sometimes "helpful suggestions" of the form "hey, why doesn't somebody just do X.."  sometimes gets a hostile reaction. The process is so carefully worked out that suddenly changing it causes the (largely anonymous) people doing all the work a great deal of effort, that the proposer really doesn't consider when "helping" us see the error of our ways.

     Brett
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: bob whitney on April 02, 2021, 12:01:56 PM
to volunteer. what and how many days would be involved
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 02, 2021, 01:20:04 PM
to volunteer. what and how many days would be involved
Bob what we ask is that you attend Mark’s classroom session at the headquarters building Monday evening after the pilots meeting and dinner.  Then Tuesday morning you will attend a training on the LPad with a few volunteers flying demo flights.  You would then both fly and help judge just the Qualification rounds on Wednesday and Thursday.  After that you are finished judging and you just fly like everyone else.  So...sign you up?  BTW I should be able to get “Nats Volunteer” shirts for all the pilot/judges.  Still need one Open and three Advanced.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Howard Rush on April 02, 2021, 01:44:22 PM
How would this work on top 20 day? I see it working for qualifying because advanced and open are run separately, but not on top 20 day where it’s going on simultaneously

Good point.  Friday, “Top 20” day, requires two sets of judges for Open and two sets of judges for Advanced.  Running the events in parallel would put too few judges per circle ( two judges on three circles, one judge on one circle). You'd need to run them in series.  Consequences are: 1) if you have a lot of entrants, you would hit the F2B limit of 40 flights per day for a judge, 2) you could have six hours of stunt, with accompanying weather, 3) you wouldn't be able to use judges who would normally be shuffled around to avoid family members, 4) contestants who volunteered to judge in the qualifying rounds--Brett et al.--are shoo-ins to be flying Friday, so they couldn't judge. 

Dave better be prepared to deputize as judges several fliers who don't qualify to fly Friday. 
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Howard Rush on April 02, 2021, 01:49:51 PM
Its why sometimes "helpful suggestions" of the form "hey, why doesn't somebody just do X.."  sometimes gets a hostile reaction.

Especially when the suggestor pulls out a suggestion that proves he hasn't read the explanation that the suggestee had previously sent him, despite the explanation having been distilled into an easy-to-digest simulation.
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 02, 2021, 02:16:28 PM
We may need to ask a few to continue Friday.  That is a situation we’d have to see develop when it does.  We are still miles ahead of where we would have been otherwise.  I’m quite sure it wouldn’t be too hard to find non-qualifiers to jump in.  Better than being a spectator at that point.  Most are watching every flight anyway.  May as well have a clipboard.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 02, 2021, 07:39:00 PM
Jim Vigani has joined the club as one of the pilot/judges in the Advanced group.

Also Marilee McMillan will join Jeannie DeMauro as score runners.

Larry Fruits will join Dennis Moritz as Pit Bosses

Thank You !!!!

Dave

As a side note:  One of the group asked whether they should register with AMA as Volunteers.  I hadn't given that any thought but those volunteers might should do this.  It may have something to do with insurance.  One thing is you would then be issued an 'Official' badge for site ID.  I think maybe I too should do this.......Pilots will already be registered.

Edited:  I goofed and misspelled Jeannie's name-my apologies .
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Stuntflyn on April 03, 2021, 07:41:47 PM
Hi Dave - Jim Smith here. Wayne and I are going to come this year, we have both been fully vaccinated though we will still use care.

Wayne is likely to fly, but I haven't finished my new Tracer yet, so I will just bring a ship to practice with. That makes me available to do Appearance Judging or Flight Scoring, I have done both. In a pinch I could probably run Howards program since we use it at the King Orange.

I am not sure Wayne's wife Kathy can come or not at this point. She does tabulations of Flight Scores using Howards program, so I'm sure she can also help in some capacity if she comes.

Her Mom is 92 years young and got out of the hospital about a month ago. She fell and had a compound fracture to her ankle and while in the hospital, she contracted Covid-19. Lol . . . she's too cantankerous to let a little Covid-19 slow her down.

Kathy does help care for her and that is why I am not sure yet if she is coming or not.

Whatever you need I am happy to help with.

Jim Smith
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 03, 2021, 07:54:18 PM
Hi Jim...and you got a job!  You also can fit in a couple good places so we need to talk about it.  Send me a message or email with your telephone # and we will talk in the next few days.  If Kathy comes and wants to help the ladies on the tab team, they will welcome her.  I think  we have appearance covered tho I haven't talked to one of those guys in a while.  I expect you may either judge or work with the tab team. In any case thank you and we will talk soon.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: RC Storick on April 04, 2021, 01:26:56 PM
Could someone please post the link for online registration? I can't find it on AMA
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 04, 2021, 02:13:38 PM
Robert on the home page is the blue line Home. About AMA, Membership etc.  Hover over Events.  You’ll get a drop down where you will find “National Aeromodelling Championships.  Click there.  You’ll then get the Nats page where you will click Register.  On the second row click on the PAMPA logo.  You are on your way....BTW they never changed the Event Contact.  It is I, no longer Mark.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: RC Storick on April 04, 2021, 05:21:32 PM
done thanks
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 04, 2021, 07:29:20 PM
You're welcome.  Not the first who has asked about finding it.  It seems to be layered in there pretty well.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Doug Moon on April 05, 2021, 05:17:38 PM
Especially when the suggestor pulls out a suggestion that proves he hasn't read the explanation that the suggestee had previously sent him, despite the explanation having been distilled into an easy-to-digest simulation.

This is a discussion board.  If suggestions are not welcome the thread should be locked and used an information post only.
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 09, 2021, 10:05:28 AM
 Thought I would dove tail into Michele’s message concerning shirts.  We still need one Open pilot/ judge and two for Adanced.  We will get enough shirts anyway but it would be good to know we have the crew together.  I could be forced to license Brett into shaming.....

We have also gained Tampa’s own Jim Smith who will help us with computer operations,  among other duties.  Thank you Jim!

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 12, 2021, 02:31:14 PM
David Shorts has put his hand up to be another Pilot/Judge.  Thank you David.  He and his dad Lannie (85) will both be coming.  That means we are now needing just one more each for Advanced and Open. 

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 14, 2021, 05:29:00 AM
I'm informed this morning that Mark Hughes will fill out the Open group of Pilot/Judges.  Thank You Mark.  Now just one more from Advanced......

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 16, 2021, 12:58:02 PM
I got an email from Yolanda at AMA asking us to remind everyone there is only two weeks left to register for the Nats before late entry fees kick in......Get R Done!

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Matt Colan on April 16, 2021, 12:58:52 PM
I got an email from Yolanda at AMA asking us to remind everyone there is only two weeks left to register for the Nats before late entry fees kick in......Get R Done!

Dave

Got mine sent in yesterday. Looking forward to it as always!
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 22, 2021, 07:11:03 AM
I wanted to put out a reminder to get entered on the AMA website within the next week to avoid any late fees. 
I just looked at entries for right now. We have:

Open   20

Advanced   17

I know there will be more entries, we had quite a few more last year.   However if we didn't,  Qualifying rounds would be nearly pointless.  We'd fly them anyway for practice!


Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Steve Fitton on April 22, 2021, 02:34:23 PM
Wish I could make it, but the date change kills me.  Our last day of work as teachers is Monday 21 June.  It's exit meeting day so it's not like I can get a sub  :'(
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 22, 2021, 06:00:42 PM
We will miss you Steve.....it's two or three now.....Next year we should be back to our regular schedule,  unless FAI tries a re-do of their plan for the RC worlds in Muncie.  On that subject I hope our guys can get to Poland for the CL Worlds.  I looked the other day and the Covid is really bad there right now.  The State Dept. is warning against travel to Poland and most everywhere in Europe. It's at their 'RED ZONE' rating. They seem to be a long way behind the US in vaccinations.  Let's hope that changes.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: James Mills on April 22, 2021, 10:24:33 PM
Ben and I registered this week.  Look forward to seeing everyone.

James
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 23, 2021, 01:29:28 PM
Samantha Hines will be joining the judges crew.  Thank you Sammi!

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Joseph Patterson on April 29, 2021, 03:17:35 PM
          I sent you a PM DAVE. It's important.
               Doug
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on April 29, 2021, 03:40:34 PM
Can’t find anything Doug.  Hit my regular email or text me.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 01, 2021, 03:57:57 PM
As mentioned elsewhere Doug and Kathleen Patterson won’t be able to make it this time.  We are wishing Doug good luck with his surgery and a rapid recovery.  Also looking forward to seeing them next year. 
I believe we will have Doug’s responsibilities covered but we sure could use someone to help us with uploading scores at the tabulation trailer.  Perhaps another of our great modeler wives might be willing or perhaps your college student?   If you’d like to help please let me know.

Thank you!

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Allen Goff on May 02, 2021, 05:39:50 AM
Dave, just checked registration and as of May 2 we have 26 in each expert and advance. I’m sure we’ll have many late entries.
Looking like we’ll have decent turnout.
Blessings  #^
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 02, 2021, 06:29:40 AM
Yes Allen I think so.  Sometimes also the AMA lags a few days getting entries listed on the website so we may already have more we don't know about yet.  I know of several coming this time who didn't last year due to the virus so yes I feel sure we will have a better turnout than last year-and last year surprised me.  Looks like fun!

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Allen Goff on May 03, 2021, 03:06:54 PM
Dave, PM sent. Mike Eber?
Blessings
Allen
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 03, 2021, 05:10:05 PM
Allen I got it and spoke to Mike this afternoon..Thanks for tracking him down for me.  He will again judge and appearance judge this year.  Mark Gerber will join the judges staff for the first time this year and Bob Brookins has agreed to run Classic/OT/N30 once again.

Thanks to all

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave Rigotti on May 04, 2021, 11:51:08 AM
Has an Intermediate Aerobatics event director been named yet?
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 04, 2021, 01:06:34 PM
 Bob Brookins will repeat as ED for Intermediate Aerobatics.
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave Rigotti on May 04, 2021, 01:23:15 PM
I'll assume he has the final say on appearance points or not?

Bob Brookins will repeat as ED for Intermediate Aerobatics.
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 04, 2021, 01:27:27 PM
Yes that’s what I pay him for.....er....

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave Rigotti on May 04, 2021, 01:35:58 PM
Dave,
What's the best way to contact him?  He hasn't been on SH since July 2018.

Yes that’s what I pay him for.....er....

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 04, 2021, 01:39:31 PM
Bob has no computer or cell phone.  I won’t openly give out the number.  I’ll try to call him tonight after work.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 09, 2021, 08:56:44 AM
The final PRE-ENTRY numbers are in.  They are:

Open    32
Advanced.     27
Jr.     1
Sr.     1

I expect an additional 2-3 late entries in all categories so we will be at about pre-pandemic norms for the past 5 or 6 years!  We have the staff largely in place but still wish for another one or two to help tabulation.  I think it is now the time to proclaim:

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!!
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 09, 2021, 07:14:26 PM
I noticed from a post before,  my answer after I had talked to Bob Brookins about Intermediate appearance judging somehow failed to register here (?).  Elaine dug up score sheets from last year and yes indeed, they did and will judge for appearance.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: M. Scott on May 09, 2021, 07:30:31 PM
What if I have entered and cannot find my name . I talked to Yolanda
last Thursday and she said I was entered, but I Still cannot find my Name.
Just looking for a little help. what to do next?
Mike
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 10, 2021, 05:08:34 AM
If you are looking on the website for your name I wouldn't worry about it.  Names get added to the website sometimes days after you enter (or perhaps not at all).  That isn't the official register.  I think an intern does that in their spare time.  In any event you will check in Monday as we begin processing and won't get left out.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Steve Fitton on May 15, 2021, 07:14:51 AM
The Skool moved my last contracted work day to 18 June instead of 21 June, so I registered online for the Nats last night. Should get there Sunday afternoon.
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 15, 2021, 06:09:23 PM
SUPER Steve!  See ya soon.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 17, 2021, 07:12:10 AM
Some of us will arrive the weekend before the Nats begins.  On Sunday will be the Beginners and Intermediate events on the grass circles.  Mike Stinson will be running Beginner (and has made a gorgeous PAMPA Concours trophy once again).  Mike thinks he will need some help with score tabulation and perhaps some other help.  If you are flying other events later in the week but will be one of the many spectators for Beginner and Intermediate (more spectators for these events than anything else all week)  and would like to help please report to Mike by or before Sunday morning.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 17, 2021, 07:16:22 AM
..
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 20, 2021, 06:16:15 AM
To whet the appetite:
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 20, 2021, 06:21:33 AM
I was loading data into the Nats programming and thought you might like to see over my shoulder.  These are the entries to date but i'm pretty sure we will have a few more to add before the Monday meeting.  ALSO this is only a TRIAL RUN and does not represent any actual circle assignment or flight order that will occur Nats week.  These are practice runs..........maybe FANTASY STUNT?

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: JHildreth on May 20, 2021, 09:04:09 PM
Dave,

     A couple of comments.  The group letters are missing in the group circle assignment box in the top center of the picture.  Also, despite all of the assurances that he is registered, Mike Scott's name is still absent.

Joe
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Howard Rush on May 20, 2021, 09:18:19 PM
The group letters are missing in the group circle assignment box in the top center of the picture. 

That is the next step in Dave's practice run.  It comes just after assigning flight orders. 
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Brett Buck on May 20, 2021, 10:43:08 PM
To whet the appetite:

Can I start whining about my circle and draws now, or should I wait until I get there?  I would hate to think someone else started whining ahead of me.

    Brett
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 21, 2021, 05:02:33 AM
Can I start whining about my circle and draws now, or should I wait until I get there?  I would hate to think someone else started whining ahead of me.

    Brett
I'll offer cheese with your whine at the proper time...

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 21, 2021, 05:08:29 AM
Dave,

     A couple of comments.  The group letters are missing in the group circle assignment box in the top center of the picture.  Also, despite all of the assurances that he is registered, Mike Scott's name is still absent.

Joe
Joe Thanks for pointing this out.  It will all be corrected and a number of additional LATE entries will be entered at check in.  At this point my info came from the AMA website which isn't always up to date.  It may be missing more AND I know of a few entries who have not done so yet.   We will have to cut off late entries at noon Monday in order to get the last data loaded on schedule.

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: M. Scott on May 27, 2021, 07:14:56 PM
Just so you are aware Dave, I entered on April 15, so I am not a late entry. I talked to Yolanda and she said I was entered
and they have a new guy doing some of the data entry work and sometimes he misses it.
Mike



Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on May 28, 2021, 05:28:19 AM
Mike I sort of presumed there were some not listed on the website in a timely way.  Yesterday Yolanda forwarded me HER list and I updated the software.  With what I 'think' I know about an entry cancellation or two we now have 36 in Open and 31 in Advanced.  These are pre-covid numbers.  We usually still have an entry or two at the last minute.  She also sent numbers for UNOFFICIAL event pre-entries but I don't have much faith in that since quite a few enter those events upon arrival.  Even so, Classic was a LLOONNGG list-and I still haven't entered!

Look forward to seeing you!

Dave
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Dave_Trible on June 07, 2021, 08:32:28 AM
In the next few days I will start a clean thread to begin Nats coverage.  One last thing for this one-  We are urgently needing another one or two to help with data/score entry at the tabulation trailer.  We will show you what to do-don't worry about not having worked this before.  If you are somewhat computer savvy and can handle a calculator your help will be appreciated.  Wives, students etc., would be a good fit.  This will be from Wednesday through Saturday morning.

Thank You!

The Management
Title: Re: 2021 CLPA US National Championships
Post by: Howard Rush on June 08, 2021, 05:48:46 PM
Dave is not kidding about urgency.  He has two (2) people signed up to tabulate.  One is going despite medical problems.  The other serves as her husband's helper and coach.  Typically we have at least three people tabulating: two entering data nonstop for four days and one keeping scoresheets organized, resolving computer issues, and updating the scoreboard.  We really should have more than two people entering data so the others can get some breaks, hence the difficulty in recruiting data entry people for subsequent Nats.   

Judging is another problem.  Dave has been beating the bushes for judges.  One dropped out yesterday.  Dave has an emergency plan to recruit Advanced guys to judge Open and Open guys to judge Advanced.  Sounds good, but there are devils in the details. Suppose one circle has an Open guy--me, for example-- judging Advanced and an Advanced guy--call him Igor--judging Open.  On a given qualifications day, I judge Igor, then he judges me, then I judge Igor, then he judges me.  You suppose that could raise some eyebrows?  What if it gets windy and I want to see if I have enough score to scratch the second round?  Judges can't look at the scoreboard. 

For qualifications rounds, I reckon we'd have to recruit fliers from circles 1 and 3 to judge on circles 2 and 4 and vice versa.  The tabulation program can accommodate this with a workaround, I think, but there are still a couple of problems:  1) We'd be waiting for one circle to finish a half round before starting the next half round in another circle.  This could cause three delays per circle per day and push the contest further into each day's unpredictable June weather.  2) Open and Advanced judge volunteers must be in pairs. How do you propose manipulating the seeding to make those who volunteered to judge come out in pairs?

Top-20 day will also be problematic.  This is a big Nats.  Looks like there will be 20 guys in each event flying Friday.  Typically we use four circles simultaneously, putting Advanced on two and Open on two.  We have eight judges currently signed up.  That's two per circle.  At the highest levels of stunt it takes five or six judges to rank fliers accurately enough.  You could supplement the two per circle with contestant-judges who didn't qualify for the top 20 and recruit more trained nonqualifiers on the spot.  Alternatively, you could either hold up the contest each time a qualifying contestant-judge flies or lump everybody on two circles, having the day run twice as long and having each judge look at 40 flights.

Please consider volunteering to judge at the Nats.  It's not too late.