2020 Nats dates

[Dave_Trible]

Today was a Nats planning meeting in Muncie.  Bob McDonald attended on behalf of PAMPA.  The dates for the 2020 Nats Control Line will be July 12-18th.
The following year the RC worlds will be held in Muncie and will consume the complex for most of July, therefore Control Line will be moved into the third week of JUNE time slot. 

The PAMPA team.

[BillLee]

I wonder why the entire month of July will be reserved for the F3A world championships that aren't until the very end of July and over into the first of August.

[Dave_Trible]

Bill I sure don't know but I expect I will receive more info and perhaps a schedule of events sometime in the near future from HQ.  I  would think they would try to run the whole RC nats just prior to the Worlds so that those foreign competitors could enter the Nats while they have come here.  In the event we get our Worlds here I would want to do it that way too.  (and would want to use this as grounds to argue that point)  AMA would have to accommodate our wishes then.  I know a few won't be happy about this.  I've already heard about how it will interfere with the Brodak contest.  Well I understand but the Nats is the only AAAA contest in the country and should take precedence .  It would be hoped they might move that one.  I can only say we've had no choice here, and no say in the matter.   AMA is in a position of trying to get everything worked into a smallish place in a tight time frame.  Someone will always not get their way (this time). We did win one a few years ago when they wanted to move us to the week of the 4th of July.  We knew many flyers and judges would have family plans and wouldn't show.  A  little battle was waged and the R/C Soaring guys drew the black straw.  I know personally I'd rather go into August.  We here don't really get consistently flyable weather to practice until the middle of June so we'd head to the Nat's pretty rusty.  It almost comes too early to suit us as it is.  I'm just hoping we will make it work for this one time and we can go back to the more normal schedule the year after.  At least we came through unscathed in AMA's  efforts to lop off events and condense the Nats into a shorter time frame.  We were having private discussions here about what we would sacrifice and how we would adjust our event schedules around to work it all in 4-5 days.  They left Aerobatics alone (I'd say likely because we run well in the black and cost AMA nothing extra, unlike other things),  but honestly I don't yet know if anything from other events got the knife.  Again I should be getting a report for follow up.  For 2020 we are mostly in good shape.

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

It's been a long while since I entered the NATS.  The concept then was a week-long event that encompassed all aspects of model flying - Free Flight, R/C, U/C.  Is that no longer the case, with entrants no longer able to take in any other aspect when they commit to a week?

[Brett Buck]

It's been a long while since I entered the NATS.  The concept then was a week-long event that encompassed all aspects of model flying - Free Flight, R/C, U/C.  Is that no longer the case, with entrants no longer able to take in any other aspect when they commit to a week?

   It's not all in one place in one week anymore. CL, except for CL scale.  is usually all together, with some RC events at the same time - usually pylon, sometimes helicopter. It usually runs from middle of June to early august. RC and CL Scale are together because they use the same static judging.

    The Muncie site is about as good as any of the old NATs sites, but all considered, it was great but completely nutty to try to hold them all at the same time. Most of the "traveling" NATs have had the events spread out over multiple sites, all "nearby" depending on your definition, but not in such a way you could walk over and see any of them easily. None of the NATs I went to before Muncie (which is not that many) had FF at the same site. The only time we flew with FF was at the Team Trials a few times.

     Brett

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

Brett,

You're right that the single week was hectic and spread out.

Regarding the current set-up, I was curious about the Intermediate Stunt event.  Several of the entrants are familiar from Brodaks.  No NATS scores were ever posted, as shown below.  Would be nice to get an idea of how people are doing.  Myself, I'm interested both in competing and also learning from watching others fly, listening to advice, etc.  However, with no scoring, it's hard to gauge the event.

thanks,

Peter

[Brett Buck]

Brett,

You're right that the single week was hectic and spread out.

Regarding the current set-up, I was curious about the Intermediate Stunt event.  Several of the entrants are familiar from Brodaks.  No NATS scores were ever posted, as shown below.  Would be nice to get an idea of how people are doing.  Myself, I'm interested both in competing and also learning from watching others fly, listening to advice, etc.  However, with no scoring, it's hard to gauge the event.

   Probably couldn't tell, anyway, scores or not. The scores are relative values, relative to the other people present, not some absolute measure. What tends to happen for events like this, where the event is completely separate from the rest of the contest,  is that the scores get pretty wild.

     If you can get through an entire pattern, and, you are routinely getting pattern points (no overruns/underruns, forgetting things, etc), you are ready enough. It's *very difficult* to get better without competing with others that are as good or better than you.

  You're ready enough, just go.

    Brett

[Peter in Fairfax, VA]

It was possible to tell who won other events, and was interesting.  Deciding a winner is somewhat fundamental to sports competition, for fans and competitors alike.  A lot of other sports have results reported beyond the "who submitted an entry form" approach shown above.  Bypassing AMA and Pampa with a photo of the score board is an idea for future. 

[Brett Buck]

It was possible to tell who won other events, and was interesting.  Deciding a winner is somewhat fundamental to sports competition, for fans and competitors alike.  A lot of other sports have results reported beyond the "who submitted an entry form" approach shown above.  Bypassing AMA and Pampa with a photo of the score board is an idea for future.

  I think it was posted here at some point.

    Brett

[BillLee]

Sure didn't take long for THAT thread to go off the tracks.😕

[Paul Smith]

Today was a Nats planning meeting in Muncie.  Bob McDonald attended on behalf of PAMPA.  The dates for the 2020 Nats Control Line will be July 12-18th.
The following year the RC worlds will be held in Muncie and will consume the complex for most of July, therefore Control Line will be moved into the third week of JUNE time slot. 

The PAMPA team.

Thus, AMA has shown ZERO respect for their time-honored policy of respecting the traditional dates of established contests, namely The Brodak Fly In which is always bigger and better than AMA's CL Nats.

[peabody]

Paul:
Do you  suppose that it was even brought up?

[john e. holliday]

For someone who has supported modeling with kits and supplies that can also include RC plus free flight I think it is bad the AMA would interfere with an event that has been around for so long.  Way back before Muncie yes there was one NATS that usually started at the end of July and run into August.  But all the events got too many sub events, especially RC to hold a single traveling NATS.  Like Dave said I think moving CL to later in the year would have been better, but with todays school system starting earlier it is hard to even plan on a vacation in August.   I guess I'm getting old as I remember school starting after  Labor Day and ending before Memorial Day.  But, now with all the teacher breaks and breaks for the students it can't be done with the number of days they say is required to teach a student, if they are taught any thing.

My self the NATS got to where it was a kind of social affair for the top competitors.  I have attended one Brodaks meet and have planned on going again plus VSC as there are more competitors who seem like they are having fun and not so much on collecting dust collectors.  That is two of the reasons I will renew my AMA membership as with out a person can't really go to a contest and help with the competition as well as visit the people flying. 

Enough dribble as I will not ever go to another NATS.

[Brett Buck]

I wonder why the entire month of July will be reserved for the F3A world championships that aren't until the very end of July and over into the first of August.

 Maybe they have 3 1/2 weeks allocated to getting FAA registration, commercial drone licenses, and transponders for 150 foreigners , and 4 days of competition?

     It's hard to imagine what they will do for all that time, stare at each other?

     Brett

[dave siegler]

So our club historically  has a contest first weekend in June.  There has been some desire to move the contest to late july.   This is mostly weather issues, it gets windy in the spring in the afternoons.

With the Nats moving for 2020, is our early June date a good one? Or is late july better?

Would people come to an early June contest as a tune up?   

[Brenda Schuette]

Let me start this by saying I was as surprised by the 2021 NATS schedule that was presented as was the representatives for the other events.  With that being said, there will be 2 different RC World Championships held in Muncie in 2021.  The RC Pylon World Champs will run immediately following the Pylon NATS events and then the RC Pattern World Champs will be held immediately before their NATS events.  These dates were not set by AMA but by the groups that submitted the proposal to hold the WC's here and approved by the FAI.

[Brendan Eberenz]

THE FINAL BRODAK EVENT IS GETTING PUSHED
I attended the Brodak event this year. John Brodak indicated that the event would go on another two years. It seems a shame that what is seemingly the FINAL Brodak Event in 2021 is getting pushed off it's spot. Not a good send off.

[dave siegler]

the tread title should be 2021 nats dates. 

[Dave_Trible]

I'm sure for all those who planned the RC worlds and in AMA who has to make this work, the Brodak event never came up on the radar as well as likely quite a few other contests in RC and FF to be affected.  I didn't attend the meeting but honestly I'd have never thought about it either.  I've never been to it.   I don't think it cancels anything-just maybe need to move it back a few weeks. Inconvenient but not impossible.  There are nearly two years until then.  Something will surely be worked out.

Dave

[BillLee]

Let me start this by saying I was as surprised by the 2021 NATS schedule that was presented as was the representatives for the other events.  With that being said, there will be 2 different RC World Championships held in Muncie in 2021.  The RC Pylon World Champs will run immediately following the Pylon NATS events and then the RC Pattern World Champs will be held immediately before their NATS events.  These dates were not set by AMA but by the groups that submitted the proposal to hold the WC's here and approved by the FAI.

Hi, Brenda;
Thanks for taking the time to attend theses meetings, maybe some accurate information may come out of your efforts.

However, I question the information you were given and presented.

First off, the 2021 FAI schedule does NOT list RC Pylon world Championships in Muncie. Or anywhere else as yet. Perhaps yet to be awarded by the FAI. Only the F3A (Pattern) WCHs are listed, for July 24-Aug 2. According to the FAI Plenary Meeting Minutes from last April, they were still searching for offers to host F3D/F5D, and perhaps AMA has made a bid since then. AFAIK, that bid, if it exists, will not be awarded until next April at the 2020 Plenary, the standard way the FAI handles WCh bids.

https://www.fai.org/events?f%5B0%5D=field_discipline_task_list_map%253Afield_sport%3A28&f%5B1%5D=field_type_of_event%3A55&f%5B2%5D=fai_event_year%3A2021&display=list

Second, the dates are NOT set by the FAI but are part of the bid made by the hosting country. In this case, AMA! If someone at HQs is telling you differently, they are making a smoke screen.  The bid is prepared by AMA HQs, usually with the participation of whoever will be actually organizing the event, and submitted to the FAI. The dates for the event are part of the bid. (Or at least an approximate date!)  "the groups that submitted" the proposal cannot dictate to AMA the dates, but more likely vice-versa.  And, of course, as we have seen with the 2020 F2 WChs, even dates for an awarded event can be changed for whatever reasons.

Regards,

Bill

[Shorts,David]

I'd love to see the CL nats go mobile every x number of years. It'd be nice for those of us who can't make it to Muncie. It'd maybe give a break to some people who need it, and get others involved that haven't.
Can I sign this Annonymous? lol

[Jim Mynes]

THE FINAL BRODAK EVENT IS GETTING PUSHED
I attended the Brodak event this year. John Brodak indicated that the event would go on another two years. It seems a shame that what is seemingly the FINAL Brodak Event in 2021 is getting pushed off it's spot. Not a good send off.

I can’t see this canceling the 2021 Brodak Fly-in. More likely it will result in a west coast heavy CL NATS, with lots of people in Carmichaels having fun.
Unless, of course, the AMA has the utter audacity to deny the Brodak sanction because it conflicts/competes with the NATS.

[Doug Moon]

I can’t see this canceling the 2021 Brodak Fly-in. More likely it will result in a west coast heavy CL NATS, with lots of people in Carmichaels having fun.
Unless, of course, the AMA has the utter audacity to deny the Brodak sanction because it conflicts/competes with the NATS.

Why on earth would the AMA do that?  That didn't even need to be said. 

[peabody]

Doug
The Nats date may indeed cause the AMA to deny a sanction 

Allegedly no conflicting events during that period