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Author Topic: 2012 World Champs  (Read 23602 times)

Offline Tom Strom

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2012 World Champs
« on: August 24, 2012, 11:45:25 PM »
Anyone know where we go to follow the festivities?  Is there a web site we can view?

Tom

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2012, 01:13:30 AM »
Anyone know where we go to follow the festivities?  Is there a web site we can view?

Tom

  I will let everyone know as I find out. Here's the website for the event:

http://www.f2abcd.com/index.php

    Brett

Offline Claudio Chacon

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2012, 05:44:40 PM »
Hello guys,
FRESH NEWS!
Here you have the F2B World Cup results from Bulgaria.

Enjoy,
Claudio.



Offline BillLee

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2012, 07:35:11 PM »
And, yes, you read it correctly: no U.S. entries. Our guys spent the days trying to get in as much practice as possible rather than fly in the World Cup.

Bill
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Offline proparc

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2012, 08:13:41 PM »
"I'm tellin you guys, this thing is in Igor's backyard, and he down, big time for the win".
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 08:13:43 PM by proparc »
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Offline patrick

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2012, 11:23:27 PM »
no flyers from USA, China and even Japan... think numbers of flyers is lesser this year... any reason for that??? ???

Offline BillLee

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2012, 11:33:17 PM »
The score board is for the F2B World Cup, NOT the F2 World Championships.
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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2012, 11:36:32 PM »
Japan had/has a real problem. As of yesterday noon-time (may have changed since), they had their model boxes but no personal luggage. And, of course, many engines, fuel tanks, etc, are in the personal luggage.  :'(

I think I was the only one with luggage problems on the U.S. team, my suitcase arrived on Friday after I arrived on Wednesday.

Bill
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Offline Paul Walker

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2012, 07:30:14 AM »
This competition has been a total CF so far. Fortunately our luggage arrived on time. Many others can't fly because bags didn't make it.
They held a competition on the site and made it so that there was no practice area available. We had to sit on our hands. We also didn't know about it before it was too late to enter. Thanks
None the less, we are flying well. Hope the weather holds out!

More later

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2012, 10:54:10 AM »
Paul, Bill and others,, we are watching with anticipation,,
sounds like many challenges to overcome,,
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Offline RC Storick

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2012, 11:19:03 AM »
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Offline Darkstar1

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2012, 11:38:44 AM »
I've read the entry lists and would someone please tell me if it's my imagination or not. Does Germany have a team
of any kind this year's W/C or not?
And one more question? Who are the judges this year. Cant seem to find it on the official web site yet.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 02:13:15 PM by darkstar1 »
Later,
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2012, 12:48:39 PM »
Is it my imagination, or does it seem that every world championships, the organization and structure are terrible? It seems that every time I hear reports from the world championships, it's always about lost luggage, no practice space, poor organization, poor judge preparation and one thing or another messed up. Why does the FAI seem to have some much trouble with this?
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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2012, 01:17:51 PM »
I've read the entry lists and would someone please tell me if it's my imagination or not. Does Germany have a team
of any kind this year's W/C or not?
And one more question? who are the judges this year. Cant seem to find it on the official web site yet.

A list o the registered teams is on the organizer's website at

http://www.f2abcd.com/teams.php#

It does not appear that any Germans are listed for any othe four events.  That does not mean that these lists are final.

Norally, the judges and jury members are listed on the organizer's website.  They do not seem to be listed at this time.

Keith


Offline BillLee

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2012, 01:40:11 PM »
A list o the registered teams is on the organizer's website at

http://www.f2abcd.com/teams.php#

It does not appear that any Germans are listed for any othe four events.  That does not mean that these lists are final.

Norally, the judges and jury members are listed on the organizer's website.  They do not seem to be listed at this time.

Keith



Please read the bulletins. Best accessed on the U.S. team website at http://www.2012CLWC.org. Judges are listed there.

Attached is Monday flight order.

Bill
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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2012, 01:44:51 PM »
Is it my imagination, or does it seem that every world championships, the organization and structure are terrible? It seems that every time I hear reports from the world championships, it's always about lost luggage, no practice space, poor organization, poor judge preparation and one thing or another messed up. Why does the FAI seem to have some much trouble with this?

The problems you outline are not so much the fault of the overall FAI organization.  

Lost luggage:  is more a factor of the difficulties of traveling half way around the world, with equipment and material that the transportation systems are not equipped to make life easy.  The organizers can do little to facilitate travel/transportation of teams and their equipment.

No practice space:  this is a function of the stunt fliers in the US are used to access to practice areas at or near their contest sites.  This is not the norm in Europe where practice sites, as we would expect, just are not provided.

Poor orgainization:  at the contest sites, this is a function of the national/local organization that host these championships.  The FAI HQ essentially turns the entire planning and execution of the World Championships over to the host country.  As can be expected, some countries will do a better job than others.  Many tmes, this matter is taken over by people with little or no experience with such an undertaking.

Judges:  The host nation selects a set number of judges, each from a different country, from an approved list of judges maintained by the FAI.  That list of judges is comprised of names submmitted by member countries.  There is no criteria established to what capabilities, training, experience those people must have to be placed on the FAI list.  (Well, there has been a Black List, but that is another story.)  There is no set process used for a country to select the judges.  That selection is completely at the discretion of the host country organizers.  It seems likely that with such a system, a less than well qualified individual could be selected to be a judge at the World Championships.


I am not trying to defend the system.  I am just trying to explain the system.

Keith

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2012, 02:01:02 PM »
Please read the bulletins. Best accessed on the U.S. team website at http://www.2012CLWC.org. Judges are listed there.

Attached is Monday flight order.

Bill

Thanks Bill,

Nice job with the website.

Keith

Offline Darkstar1

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2012, 02:29:27 PM »
Thanks Bill,

Nice job with the website.

Keith



I second that! 
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Offline Igor

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2012, 02:37:18 PM »
Hello Guys! I could able to get some pictures from some Russian models Web site.
http://f2rus.ru/2011-10-08-18-52-33/bolgarya-ekm-2012-photo.html
In te forum they have some comments to say: it is hot there 35 C and wind still OK 3-5 Meters/sec. I hop they will posted some more info with tabulations.
Igor Panchenko

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2012, 03:17:33 PM »
I went through the pics on the website Igor posted the link for and found a picture of PW and Don McC., apparently starting the .40VF. Oops, that's not right. Well, probably changing batteries. So they apparently got to practise at least some. There were also pics of David's Thunder Gazer. The pictures may be "captured" if you wish, but they are Bitmaps, so pretty big files for the size of the picture...and slow loading. I don't understand why people post .bmp's or .gif's on websites. Just shazam it into a jpeg and save a lot of bandwidth and upload & download time. IrfanView will do that for you.  ;D Steve
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Offline Norvaldo

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2012, 03:25:08 PM »
.
Norvald Olsvold

Offline Noel Corney

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2012, 04:01:54 PM »
Hi Guys I don't know If I am just lucky or not ,touch wood but lost luggage has never been a problem for me, including a recent trip to the USA with 12 flights in 3 weeks,no problems ,even had flights arrive early!!!!!Regards , Noel.

Offline Igor

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2012, 04:05:22 PM »
The problems you outline are not so much the fault of the overall FAI organization.  

Lost luggage:  is more a factor of the difficulties of traveling half way around the world, with equipment and material that the transportation systems are not equipped to make life easy.  The organizers can do little to facilitate travel/transportation of teams and their equipment.

No practice space:  this is a function of the stunt fliers in the US are used to access to practice areas at or near their contest sites.  This is not the norm in Europe where practice sites, as we would expect, just are not provided.

Poor orgainization:  at the contest sites, this is a function of the national/local organization that host these championships.  The FAI HQ essentially turns the entire planning and execution of the World Championships over to the host country.  As can be expected, some countries will do a better job than others.  Many tmes, this matter is taken over by people with little or no experience with such an undertaking.

Judges:  The host nation selects a set number of judges, each from a different country, from an approved list of judges maintained by the FAI.  That list of judges is comprised of names submmitted by member countries.  There is no criteria established to what capabilities, training, experience those people must have to be placed on the FAI list.  (Well, there has been a Black List, but that is another story.)  There is no set process used for a country to select the judges.  That selection is completely at the discretion of the host country organizers.  It seems likely that with such a system, a less than well qualified individual could be selected to be a judge at the World Championships.


I am not trying to defend the system.  I am just trying to explain the system.

Keith
Igor Panchenko! Keith your explanations are very good but afterwards. Those lessons would be helpful before team departure from US. Dave knows - how airlines work in this time. May be would be good idea; to have some very important portion of their gear to ship out in earlier time of departure to W/C. , or have some back up set of important things like cloth, fuel, bateries, tools, etc. Ship to hotel or to some local friends or club before.I've overheard from My coworker Alex Andriukov , he has been traveling between contests around the world a lot.Delay or lost luggage , becoming a normal now. He has told me : even when there is option; during the time, when you book your Flight tickets, to choose not less than 2 hours between flights in transition airport , if there is not straight flight to choose from. There is more chance to receive  luggage in time. We have very experienced people in the team, I think they will do the best they can do. Let's hop for their best results and wish them the best !!!
Igor Panchenko

Offline Claudio Chacon

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2012, 04:16:42 PM »
Hello Guys! I could able to get some pictures from some Russian models Web site.
http://f2rus.ru/2011-10-08-18-52-33/bolgarya-ekm-2012-photo.html
In te forum they have some comments to say: it is hot there 35 C and wind still OK 3-5 Meters/sec. I hop they will posted some more info with tabulations.

Cool pics Igor, thanks for posting. And CONGRATS for your first place at the World Cup!
One more thing: can you please confirm us if the torture device you see in the pic attached is the "official line tension instrument" the organization is using???

Thanks,
Claudio.

Offline Doug Moon

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2012, 06:06:55 PM »
What is the world cup competition?

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Offline Igor

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2012, 06:42:10 PM »
Cool pics Igor, thanks for posting. And CONGRATS for your first place at the World Cup!
One more thing: can you please confirm us if the torture device you see in the pic attached is the "official line tension instrument" the organization is using???

Thanks,
Claudio.
Glaudio I think, your question has been addressed to Igor Burger. He has Placed 1 in the Bulgaria cup. I'm Igor Panchenko from: LA. CA. It is very possible that people are responsible for organize World Cup have used that for line tension to test. Does not look that device can be use for weight of models to check. I think, World Championship organizers will use some thing better.
Igor Panchenko

Offline Claudio Chacon

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2012, 07:08:35 PM »
Glaudio I think, your question has been addressed to Igor Burger. He has Placed 1 in the Bulgaria cup. I'm Igor Panchenko from: LA. CA. It is very possible that people are responsible for organize World Cup have used that for line tension to test. Does not look that device can be use for weight of models to check. I think, World Championship organizers will use some thing better.

OOPS! I got the two Igors mixed up! Sorry about that.
That fish scale CAN'T be used for nothing at all, not even for weighing fish! %^

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2012, 07:24:21 PM »
Thanks Keith. It just seems like problems abound. But then, as you note, traveling half way around the world, especially to somewhere that is not used to a ton of competitors isn't easy.
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Offline Darkstar1

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2012, 08:31:32 PM »
Hmmmmmm!
I wonder where that line breaker from the OTS & Classic Nats ran off to! LL~ LL~ LL~ <= <= LL~ LL~ LL~
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Offline Chris McMillin

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2012, 08:43:12 PM »
The picture of the guy charging his battery while mounted in the model is very gutsy!
Chris...

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2012, 09:12:51 PM »
The one thing I noticed is that, the contest looks like a Yatsenko Shark Convention!!
Milton "Proparc" Graham

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2012, 09:20:28 PM »
The one thing I noticed is that, the contest looks like a Yatsenko Shark Convention!!

HUMM No BOM Imagen that.
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Offline Peter Germann

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2012, 03:19:08 AM »
Thank you, Keith for explaining the FAI system. I would like add the following extracts of the current FAI Sporting Code 2012, Volume F2  Control Line Model Aircraft:

re Practice Circles:  Annex 4F Control Line Organizers Guide  Page 86

6.5.2.5.
At World and Continental Championships and other limited international contests, organisers shall also provide Practice Circle/s. These shall be located at the contest site itself, but in any event shall not require more than 30 minutes of normal travelling time to reach from the contest site. Organisers should provide a minimum of one Practice Circle for every 50 registered contestants. All Practice Circles shall be freely open and available for use by all contestants for at least the duration of the contest, plus also for a suitable time before the start of the contest. All Practice Circles should be as close as possible to the standard and maintenance conditions set out at paragraphs a) and/or b) above; but except for the marking of the centre of the centre (pilot’s) circle and the outside diameter circle, the marking of circles as described at paragraph c) above shall not be required. However if the Practice Circle/s site is open to public access then organisers shall also erect suitable safety barrier/s and warning signs in the local language.


re Judges Qualification / Selection:  Annex 4B  Class F2B – Judges Guide Page 59

Judges' Qualifications and Selection of Judges for Contests
The National Aero Club (NAC) of each country having F2B judges who join (or who wish to join) judging panels at international F2B contests should ensure that a defined standard of judging proficiency is reached and maintained by each of the judges for which it has responsibility. Each such NAC should therefore:

a) Provide translations into their own language of both the current FAI Sporting Code Volume F2 applicable to F2B (that is the whole of paragraph 4.2) and of this complete Judges’ Guide.

b) Arrange suitable means and procedures to ensure that each judge is fully trained. This means arranging training courses which include regular and repeated group training in both theoretical (classroom) and practical (flight) venues where every aspect of both the current Sporting Code and of this Judges’ Guide may be examined and practised in detail.

c) Provide suitable means for officially recording each such training session attended by every judge within its national responsibility. Such official record should include dates, duration, and number of flights observed at such training sessions, and should also separately list details of all the national and international F2B contests at which each judge has been a member of the judging panel.

d) Establish selection criteria which clearly define the minimum periods of undergoing such training and of actually judging high quality F2B flights at national level before prospective judges are eligible to be nominated or invited to join judging panels at international F2B contests.

Providing all the above will ensure that the judging of all international F2B contests is carried out to the same basic standard. These measures will also enable the organisers of international contests to be sure that all judges invited or nominated to a judging panel do indeed meet the required standards of qualification and experience. The organisers of all World and Continental Championships should therefore submit a list of proposed judges’ names, together with their NAC qualification details as at paragraph c) above, to their own NAC and to the F2 Subcommittee of the CIAM.

To ensure a continuous pool of suitably qualified international F2B judges it is also recommended that, with suitable modifications, each NAC apply the criteria and procedures at the above paragraphs a) through d) inclusive to the selection and training of F2B judges for contests at national level.


Kind regards, Peter

Peter Germann

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2012, 04:45:11 AM »
Japan had/has a real problem. As of yesterday noon-time (may have changed since), they had their model boxes but no personal luggage. And, of course, many engines, fuel tanks, etc, are in the personal luggage.  :'(

I think I was the only one with luggage problems on the U.S. team, my suitcase arrived on Friday after I arrived on Wednesday.

Bill

That happened last time too didn't it?

Derek

Offline Derek Barry

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2012, 04:46:22 AM »
This competition has been a total CF so far. Fortunately our luggage arrived on time. Many others can't fly because bags didn't make it.
They held a competition on the site and made it so that there was no practice area available. We had to sit on our hands. We also didn't know about it before it was too late to enter. Thanks
None the less, we are flying well. Hope the weather holds out!

More later

Sounds typical, Good luck guys! I know it is difficult but try to keep us posted.

Derek

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2012, 01:35:20 PM »
That happened last time too didn't it?

Derek

Hi, Derek;

Yes, it's two in a row for me! But that has all been overcome now.

Weather today turned cool, wet  and WINDY!!!! Lightning and rain delayed flying a couple of times. All events were quite late in completing the flights.

Temperature stayed in the 70's all day. A little sun late. Badly wind-burned tonight.

Attached is the Tuesday schedule.

Bill
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Offline Darkstar1

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #36 on: August 27, 2012, 01:39:40 PM »
Looks like Igor don't need no wind! mw~ mw~ mw~
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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #37 on: August 27, 2012, 02:17:43 PM »
Wonder what poor Igor did?
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Offline proparc

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2012, 02:42:53 PM »
"I'll show that Igor just what I think of electrics".
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2012, 02:56:17 PM »
d) Establish selection criteria which clearly define the minimum periods of undergoing such training and of actually judging high quality F2B flights at national level before prospective judges are eligible to be nominated or invited to join judging panels at international F2B contests.

    I would suggest that the references to "F2B" be removed, and replaced with "Precision Aerobatics" since there will be little opportunity for US judges to meet the qualifications in an actual F2B contest. I can name a  dozen judges off the top of my head that I would consider qualified to do a World Champs that have likely never judged in an FAI contest. 95% of the work is identical, and it would take about 4 flights to translate 10-40 into 0-10.

    Brett

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2012, 04:38:59 PM »
Is there any current information. The web sites don't seem to be all that helpful (or possibly just not updated).
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Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2012, 05:22:08 PM »
Wonder what poor Igor did?

Besides win 1st place, he was also guilty of charging his battery while in the plane.  I was wondering if we'd get pictures of Igor or Tania. Let's hope for better pictures of both.  HIHI%% Steve

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2012, 05:56:37 PM »
Is there any current information. The web sites don't seem to be all that helpful (or possibly just not updated).

From past experience, it is not unusual to learn of any round scores until the day after the flights, and sometimes late in that day.

I expect the best coverage for latest information will be from whatever Bill Lee posts.  And that may be limited because the information is just not immediately available to him, even as the Team Manager.  We are spoiled here in the States to see scores posted sometimes before or at least shortly after the next flight is completed.

Keith

Offline Darkstar1

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2012, 08:38:42 PM »
I was wondering if we'd get pictures of Igor or Tania. Let's hope for better pictures of both.  HIHI%% Steve




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Offline Darkstar1

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2012, 08:41:50 PM »
Part 2
Maybe the start of the impromptu e- seminar :!
Later,
Evolve or get left behind!

Offline Shultzie

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2012, 09:57:21 PM »
Wow..THANKS DarkStar! AWESOME PHOTOS!
Don Shultz

Offline Keith Renecle

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2012, 10:22:41 PM »
Hi All,
Well the first round on each circle is almost done. The weather for the first day was horrendous with wind gusting to 16 meters per second on these wind meters. We had rain and lightning and every flight was basically survival. The top guys seem to be able to fly with precision even in these conditions while the rest of us mortals just try hard to get some semblance of the shapes and not hit the deck. I did not watch the whole days flying but the best I saw in some real serious gusts was Dave Fitzgerald. One of the maneuvers even looked like the Thundergazer stopped dead into the wind! How he got through is just amazing. There were quite a few prangs as well.

The guy to beat is Igor Burger. His Max Bee with his own active regulation just seems to ignore the bad conditions. The flap bottoms and accuracy of Igor's flying is just too amazing to watch. All of the USA pilots are flying to their usual impressive styles.....especially in these conditions.

The organization is aweful but the Bulgarians are trying very hard to sort any problems out as quickly as possible, so all you can do is try hard to work with them.

I've posted a few pics showing the pit area where the line testing was done and you can see the mud and leaves. The other shot os some spectators watching one of the Chinese flights shows how rotten the weather looks. I think that the wind speed went over the limit many times and was not checked properly, but if you had to give re-flights we would not have been able to get many flights in at all. Basically the day could have been called off, but gusty weather does have moments of flyable weather so what do you do?? I'll post more later. As you can all see from the last pic, when Igor got the "boot" I scored big time!!!

Keith R

Offline proparc

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2012, 11:30:13 PM »

One of the maneuvers even looked like the Thundergazer stopped dead into the wind! How he got through is just amazing.


How he got through was with a honking Merlin 75!!
Milton "Proparc" Graham

Offline Tania Uzunova

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2012, 12:02:10 AM »
mmm : )))
and those two - young and handsome take care for weather earlt that morning, hmm i also hope not wet and windy like yesterday : (
the point is to see nice flying, not flying and keeping model - alive : )

Offline PJ Rowland

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Re: 2012 World Champs
« Reply #49 on: August 28, 2012, 12:43:41 AM »
I'm certainly enjoying seeing all the photo's of the various planes in the pits.

Its refreshing to see the classic timeless art of

Building

design

painting

Commerce

Hasn't been lost.







If you always put limit on everything you do, physical or anything else. It will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them.” - Bruce Lee.

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 I Yearn for a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned.


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