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  • October 25, 2020, 07:24:14 PM

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Author Topic: Windy question  (Read 789 times)

Offline Randy Powell

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Windy question
« on: October 08, 2020, 11:04:17 AM »
Does anyone have a picture of Windy Urtnowski's F-16 stunter?


Thanks,
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Online Matt Colan

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2020, 06:52:40 PM »
Here’s the only one I’ve ever seen of it
Matt Colan

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2020, 09:51:19 PM »
Was a couple , in F.M. , of the NOSE . And mention of the canopy - from some R.C. kit . ( if youd askedafew daysago , I hadem infront ofme . Will look & see & photothingo em . )
« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 08:33:00 PM by Air Ministry . »

Online Trostle

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2020, 11:30:47 AM »
There is a picture of an F-16 done by Lou Dudka (GSCB) in the Apr 84 issue of Flying Models.  Shows the F-16 prototype color scheme.  I have seen this model when I was living on the East Coast.  Great looking airplane.

Randy, I sent you a personal message about this airplane.

Keith

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2020, 08:34:06 PM »


mightathebee morea legable . http://library.modelaviation.com/ma/1984/12/reno-1984-nats-cl-racing

So , obviously , you need pictures of the ' front row ' for appearace , at the 84 Nats .

Also theres M A pictures of Windy / Big Jim Engines / S T 60 . Ones engraved F-16. if its not something else . Looks like that one, anyway .
Appears to be when Windy started his ' Big Jim ' trip . The Sweeper being a " L. J . " , the F-16 seems to be ( and ive seen written ) a PATTERNMASTER derivative ,
as in a F-16'erised P.M.60 . Dimensionally, airfoils etc etc .

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2020, 10:43:57 AM »
I'm in the process of designing my own Jet Era plane for PA and wanted to look at Windy's F-16. I understand that Lou Dudka also had an F-16 design was is supposed to be quite good. If anyone has pics of that, I'd appreciate it.


Thanks for the responses.
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Re: Windy question
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2020, 03:42:54 PM »
Here is the best I can do.  Flying Models, April 1984.

This is an inline airplane.  Lets the strakes line up with the wing and tail leading edges.  Nose wheel is beneath the air intake as on the full size F-16, not a wire from the engine as in the Urtnowski version.  About 690 sq in with a 59" span.  ST 60.  That is a 2" spinner.  Good trick getting a lot of machinery in that skinny nose.  The color scheme is red white and blue based on the prototype F-16 built and tested for the source selection competition with the F-17.

Keith
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 07:58:11 AM by Trostle »

Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2020, 06:06:45 AM »
Here is the best I can do.  Flying Models, April 1984.

This is an inline airplane.  Lets the strakes line up with the wing and tail leading edges.  Nose wheel is beneath the air intake as on the full size F-16, not a wire from the engine as in the Urtnowski version.  About 690 sq in with a 59" span.  ST 60.  That is a 2" spinner.  Good trick getting a lot of machinery in that skinny nose.  The color scheme is based on the prototype F-16 built and tested for the source selection competition with the F-17.

Keith

Lou based that model to a degree on my Genesis 46 Mk III model, only he made it inline as per Keith's note. I remember working with Lou to design and cut the "strakes" from foam and then sheet them with thin balsa. That plane just flat flew great, and with it Lou started his climb in Stunt on the very competitive East Coast scene. It all culminated with Lou making the Top-5 in 1978 at Lake Charles with his Matrix design. He also just missed making the U.S. FAI F2B team flying the Matrix in the mid 1980's.

Lou's F-16 was powered by an ST.46.

I still talk on a semi-regular basis with Lou and he still has an interest in the event.

Later - Bob
« Last Edit: October 13, 2020, 09:55:58 AM by Bob Hunt »

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2020, 12:48:30 PM »
Thanks, Guys. Once again, helpful.
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Online Joseph Daly

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2020, 05:40:18 PM »
Here is a shot from Andy Lee of Windy F16

Online Joseph Daly

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2020, 05:59:21 PM »
Another Andy Lee photo of Lou’s F16

Online Mike Ferguson

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2020, 12:24:19 PM »
Another Andy Lee photo of Lou’s F16

Just don't throw a baseball cap down around Lou's F-16.

Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2020, 02:18:54 PM »
LOL Mike:

Yeah, cause it might look something like this...


Online Mike Ferguson

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2020, 06:50:29 PM »
LOL Mike:

Yeah, cause it might look something like this...



I think either Jimmy Casale or my dad Keith told me about that incident. If I'm recalling it correctly, the words "I didn't mean it!" were uttered right after the brim of the cap buried itself in the wing. I'm reasonably sure I wasn't there, since I was still in short pants and Buster Browns around this time.  ::)

Also, related to the inline thread - Lou's F-16 was one of the reason Jimmy's Columbia "jet" was inline. He thought it worked great for Lou's plane, and I know he liked the inline setup on his own.



mightathebee morea legable . http://library.modelaviation.com/ma/1984/12/reno-1984-nats-cl-racing

So , obviously , you need pictures of the ' front row ' for appearace , at the 84 Nats .

Also theres M A pictures of Windy / Big Jim Engines / S T 60 . Ones engraved F-16. if its not something else . Looks like that one, anyway .
Appears to be when Windy started his ' Big Jim ' trip . The Sweeper being a " L. J . " , the F-16 seems to be ( and ive seen written ) a PATTERNMASTER derivative ,
as in a F-16'erised P.M.60 . Dimensionally, airfoils etc etc .

Windy's F-16 wasn't a Patternmaster. The pics aren't showing off the huge flaps. It was definitely a Beejay/Eljay derivative. If anything, if someone wanted to recreate it, the plans for Windy's MiG Sweeper (it's in Model Aviation - 1987ish?) would probably be a good starting point.

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2020, 10:11:35 PM »
" Windy's F-16 wasn't a Patternmaster. The pics aren't showing off the huge flaps. It was definitely a Beejay/Eljay derivative.  "


Agrereed . Your Right . You can see the two foot thick tailplane & flat elevators . If you look . Well . . . 3/4 thinck, actually. maybe .

Atta glance thought it was the P.M. 60 . NOW youll have me ovelaying the B J & P M  drawings to compare .   :-X

Online Mike Ferguson

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2020, 09:56:22 AM »
I just remember seeing the F-16 at Flushing Meadow in 1984 and it seemed to be much like Windy's MiG. I have no idea if either were "per plans" BeeJay designs or not, but they were definitely very close. The F-16 had a super hard corner, but the MiG flew better overall, at least to my recollection. (I was eleven then.)

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2020, 09:09:37 PM »
I just remember seeing the F-16 at Flushing Meadow in 1984 and it seemed to be much like Windy's MiG. I have no idea if either were "per plans" BeeJay designs or not, but they were definitely very close. The F-16 had a super hard corner, but the MiG flew better overall, at least to my recollection. (I was eleven then.)

Youd have to assume Windys earlier ' Big Jim ' designs were more ' out of the box ' as regards cores , airfoils etc .

Theres a " L J " fuse plan , posted by Jose , here on S.H. -> This shows the ' egg airfoil ' tailplane , like The F-16 here , with the thinner sheet elevators , as picture here ..

Theres a ' Windy 1986 B J fuse drg . about . More freehand , particularly the writing ( no shortage of that ) that appears to have convetional !? pointy airfoiled 1/2 sht tailplan & 3/8 sht. elevators .

So that photo matches a ' L J ' in that resect .

Offline jose modesto

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2020, 07:57:20 PM »
From 1982 to 87 windy’s models were based on the Bj design 7 to 1 aspect ratio. BJ 72” span
The BJ 900 the mig, killer B , Relentless And Tel others
From 88 they were based on the PM 60
The Vmax  And the Griffon based on the Big Jim Griffon  desig  An answer to Ted Fancher  thinner wing lower space ratio smaller flaps
1993 tweener ( my plane ) 63” span
I bugged Jim for years that I wanted a plane that was a combination LJ and 60 PM
Thus the tweener was born
I went one further and asked him for the tweener based on the PM 60 and the BJ. Span 68”. Loved that plane
The fuse plan I posted is for the LJ 63” span
Jose modesto

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2020, 08:23:25 PM »
Is the L J nessesarilly the Fat / Flat tailplane / elevator ,

and the B J the flat airfoiled thru sheet version .

Or were either either as was ones wont .  n~ um , whatever was fitted ?

Mod. 10-20 picture below - stab hairfoils .  ;D

« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 10:51:43 PM by Air Ministry . »

Offline jose modesto

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2020, 06:20:09 AM »
The high aspect ratio planes used the tadpole stab Elev
The PM used and airfoil stab and Elev
As shown on your mike Rogers PM plans
The LJ,Bj and 900 could be built with regular airfoiled tails
If you dint want to use the Tadpole Jim gave you the alternative dimensions For airfoil tail sections
Windy used both systems
The Tadpole stab was used in the classic Chief if memory is correct
On my LJ’s I used both
Big Jim used the Tadpole stab/Elev on both his LJ models. I have his last el jay at home
Jose modesto

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Re: Windy question
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2020, 04:59:54 PM »
The high aspect ratio planes used the tadpole stab Elev
The PM used and airfoil stab and Elev
As shown on your mike Rogers PM plans
The LJ,Bj and 900 could be built with regular airfoiled tails
If you dint want to use the Tadpole Jim gave you the alternative dimensions For airfoil tail sections
Windy used both systems
The Tadpole stab was used in the classic Chief if memory is correct
On my LJ’s I used both
Big Jim used the Tadpole stab/Elev on both his LJ models. I have his last el jay at home
Jose modesto

Hi Jose,

So, which flew better for you?  Ones with the "Tadpole stab/elevator" or ones with same thickness stab/elevator?

Keith

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