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Author Topic: Building a new Super 70s plane  (Read 9016 times)

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2019, 10:57:02 PM »

 Welcome back Randy, looking forward to more progress.  y1
Narrowly averting disaster since 1964! 

Wayne Willey
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2019, 01:08:04 PM »
So, a bit more progress. Fitting the jet intakes and cowl. Still haven't figured out how to set up the arming plug and start button
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2019, 03:32:21 PM »
... Still haven't figured out how to set up the arming plug and start button
Your layout is similar to mine.  FYI I love the huge bottom hatch.  I put the arming plug in the hatch. I bend the leads on the start button and re-solder to put it right next to the timer.  Since you are going to have to flip it over to change batteries anyway, why not have access to everything.

Ken
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2019, 06:55:15 PM »
You've got about 3 times the space. It's more figuring out where to put the battery plugin. I'm using Dean's bulkhead mounts.
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2019, 07:15:43 PM »
You are bringing back great memories, Randy, and a few nightmares... Fitting and carving the intakes as I remember was a challenge.

You are doing a fantastic job! (Is anyone here surprised?)

Later - Bob Hunt

Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2019, 09:36:10 PM »
Still haven't figured out how to set up the arming plug and start button

 That's easy, the arming plug screws into the cylinder head and the start button is on your starter. Glad I could help.  VD~
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Wayne Willey
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #56 on: November 12, 2019, 12:37:37 AM »
You've got about 3 times the space. It's more figuring out where to put the battery plugin. I'm using Dean's bulkhead mounts.
You may be right, I kept the pipe tunnel in the design so I probably have more room at the bottom.  I used the same concept on a converted ARF Nobler and got both the timer and the arming plug into the cowling leaving the entire tank compartment for the battery with the esc between the mounts under the battery.  Still the most I could fit was a stubby 4s.  Turnegy makes a rather thin 4s and 5s in there "Nano" line that would probably fit in around the 3000 - 3300 size.  Not as light as the Thunderpower but they perform well.

I have gone to placing the esc into the wing area behind the battery to keep it from forcing cooling vents in the top and to move some weight closer to the CG.  I was tired of having to add tail weight.  Hopefully in what is left of my usable lifetime we will have a battery that doesn't weigh so much and is smaller.

It is hard with the "Classics"/N30's to find room for a decent size battery.

I absolutely love the plane so far, even if you aren't going to paint it as a Weasel!

Ken
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 06:20:22 AM by Ken Culbertson »
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #57 on: November 13, 2019, 10:55:41 PM »
Thanks for the nice comments. Glad I'm causing Bob some harsh flashbacks. It's a fun plane to build overall. Lot of challenges but hey, that's why we do this stuff.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2019, 08:12:42 PM »
It's a fun plane to build overall. Lot of challenges but hey, that's why we do this stuff.

 Fun to watch people build these designs that can do them justice too.  y1
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Wayne Willey
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2019, 04:51:50 PM »
Still working on pieces. Carving and fitting the air intakes and drop tanks. Bob had an evil turn of mind when he designed this dude. Sill messing with shapes. Started on the flaps, too. Decided to finish much of the front of the air intakes before mounting them. Later it will be too big a pain to get in there. Still fitting electronics. Another joy.
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #60 on: November 19, 2019, 07:42:50 AM »
Whoosh! I love the way you handled the scoops! That was the most challenging part for me when I built mine.

You are building a masterpiece!

By the way, I turned my drop tanks on a Logan lathe.

Later - Bob

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2019, 05:12:11 PM »
Well Bob, the tanks have been the most challenging for me. I hogged the intakes all out and put a backstop to imitate an inset. I finished the intake part up to ready to paint as I didn't think I could get in there to sand after they were on. Got one drop tank done. Sheesh, that was a ton of work.   ;D
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2019, 06:21:21 PM »

 Will the tanks be removable or will they be along for the ride?
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #63 on: November 25, 2019, 06:20:51 AM »
Well Bob, the tanks have been the most challenging for me. I hogged the intakes all out and put a backstop to imitate an inset. I finished the intake part up to ready to paint as I didn't think I could get in there to sand after they were on. Got one drop tank done. Sheesh, that was a ton of work.   ;D

LOL! I know exactly what you mean, Randy; if I had known just how much work and how many challenges the F-105 would entail, I probably would not have designed and built it!

The following is an excerpt from my almost finished Genesis Saga book (Which will be available soon on CD and it will have dozens of neat old photos) that explains a bit about the F-105.

Later - Bob

I jumped back to the jet camp again, and designed a stunter around the lines of the Republic F-105 Thunderchief in early 1970. I didn’t build that model right away, however. I thought that the large drop tanks I had drawn would induce too much drag, and so I shelved the design for a while.

Vic Macaluso had designed a very striking semi-scale version of the  Crusader around that time that featured anhedral in the wing. None of us thought that it would fly like that, but Vic had the last laugh by coming up with a model that eventually won almost every contest on the East Coast in 1970.

Vic’s jet had many relief details on the fuselage in the form of fairings and scoops. It also had a set of very realistic drop tanks that were fitted to pylons that were attached to the wing. Very original and very impressive was the Crusader. Even more amazing was the fact that Vic built and finished this gorgeous model in but eight weeks!
 
I had always liked the side-view shape of the F-105 Thunderchief, but initially discarded it because the head of the model engine would stick down from the slim nose and spoil the jet look. The Sabre Jet configuration was a natural for hiding the engine and I suppose that is why so many of them have been designed as semi-scale stunters over the years.

The Thunderchief would also have to be built as an in-line design. The engine thrust line, wing centerline and tail centerline were all on the same line! I had heard that this configuration might cause problems, especially with the vertical center of gravity. Add to that the fact that this model would have tricycle landing gear and simulated drop tanks, and the potential vertical CG problem loomed even larger.

   Naturally, with all those negatives going for this design, I decided to go ahead and build it anyway! Hey, sometimes a good-looking design just has to be tried in spite of the logic of physics… Did it work? You bet! The “Thud” turned out to be a really great flying model that turned equally upright and inverted. In fact, the model flew decidedly better with the removable drop tanks attached! I think the extra drag allowed me to power-up the OS Max H40S a bit more than normal and have something to “pull” against. Whatever the reasons, that model flew very nicely indeed and it carried me to that elusive first win in the Open class, against worthy competition.

The Chipmunk wing had proven to be a great choice for the slightly larger models that we were all starting to build to accept the more powerful and slightly heavier .40 size engines that were beginning to become available. Instead of making the whole wing larger in span and chord for the F-105, I decided to go for a more high-aspect ratio look and simply extend the span while keeping the stock root and tip chord dimensions. I really liked the high-aspect look, and I fully intend to re-visit it very soon with a new model design. 

The Thunderchief was my first published design. I was invited to fly it in a modeling demonstration in Nyack, New York in the fall of 1971, and the legendary model magazine editor, Don McGovern was in attendance. He just loved that model, and he asked me if I would like to have it appear in Flying Models magazine. I quickly accepted his offer, and spent the rest of that fall preparing the article and inking the plans.

Around Christmas in 1971 the article package was ready for Don’s perusal and he invited me to his home in Centereach, Long Island just two days before I was scheduled to leave for the 1972 King Orange Internationals meet in Florida. I was really nervous about meeting with this modeling legend in his home one-on-one. I was even more nervous that he would say my work was not up to magazine standards. I was just a wreck as I made the long trek out onto the “Island.”

As it turned out, Don really liked the article package and we went out to a local field to get a few photos of the model. Don had told me when he purchased the article that I could not depict a foam wing on the plan. At that time there were not too many foam wing stunt models being built, and there were really only two commercial foam wing cutters that specialized in cutting CL Stunt wings (Foam-Flite and my newly formed Control Line Specialties Company). Don wanted to be certain that this model could be constructed in the normal manner as well as with a foam core wing. I wasn’t even sure that the built-up wing I drew on the plans would go together correctly!

I had thought up a really neat fixture that incorporated two pieces of ¼ -inch thick balsa that would serve as the actual leading and trailing edges. They were to have a piece of 1/8-inch square balsa glued at a point that would pick-up the center of the ribs, which in turn were to have 1/8-inch notches cut accurately at the front and rear. The ¼-inch balsa pieces extended down to the bench top and when assembled the wing was suspended between them. Sort of like the Lincoln-Log method that Tom Morris came up with years later, only the fixture pieces were trimmed to be the actual leading and trailing edges after the wing was constructed.

Fortunately I found out that the wing depicted on the plans was easy to build and turned out warp free. Several modelers have built that design with that wing. Today I’d opt for the Lost-Foam system to build this wing, and I recently received a photo of a Thunderchief that Ed Capitanelli built that way. It’s gorgeous - just like all of Ed’s work!

The Thud placed in or won many contests over its two-year life span, and then it bit the dust in a most embarrassing way.

In March of 1973 I attended the annual spring meet in Warminster, Pennsylvania at the Johnstown Naval Research Facility (that’s where the centrifuge that was used for Astronaut training was located!). That contest had become known for very bad weather conditions, but I wanted to go anyway. Billy Simons tagged along, but he warned me that it was going to be very windy at the contest site. To say that he was correct in that assumption would be a monumental understatement! But, hey, we were there and there was a contest.

Billy opted to leave his brand new Gambit (A ship also built around those “Secret Moments” that Gene had pioneered) safely in the car. I wasn’t that smart. I decided to enter and fly. Bill tried very hard to talk me out of that decision. As I wrote earlier, Bill Simons was always the voice of reason…

The wind was blowing a constant 18 to 20 mph. And it was a cold wind; the type that has real “push” to it. I fired up the OS .40H and took off on what would quickly become the farewell journey for the Thunderchief.

It was so windy that the increased line tension downwind forced me to use both hands on the handle through maneuvers. Try that sometime. Anyway, I managed to make it safely all the way to the inside square loops. The Thunderchief was rocketing through the maneuver and was pulling like a freight train at the pull out point. On the downward portion of the second inside square the up line snapped. With such incredible line pull the model was fed full down control instantly, as the model was now being tethered by only one line. The result was the most amazing outside corner you ever saw, but, albeit, at only five foot altitude. The result was predictable; the model hit the ground hard at about a 45 degree angle. Did I mention that it hit hard?

As I think back on it now, like during any catastrophe, time went into a sort of warp, and all of it seemed to be happening in ultra slow motion. Just after the airplane hit the asphalt and disintegrated, all the pieces “bounced” up into the air as if straining to erase what had just happened. I vividly remember that all the pieces were in relatively the right orientation, only they were several feet apart. The result was a momentary image of this surreal model that was flying but not connected part-to-part. It was one of the most eerie moments in my life. Still is to this day.

As if the crash and loss of my best model (my only model really…) was not bad enough, I now had to face one Bill Simons who was in full “I told you so, Dummy” mode. I was scolded good and proper, and he really never did let me forget that day.

Alas, I reconciled that I would have to go home and get to work on a new ship right away. I was heading for my car when a youngster ran up to me and asked if I was the flier who crashed the model. “Yes, that was me,” I answered, and then he held out his hand which contained the badly bent remains of the rear cone section of the 2-inch diameter Veco Needle Nose spinner and asked, “Do you know where the front part of this is?” At that point I wanted to cry.



Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #64 on: November 25, 2019, 07:37:51 AM »
......a great choice for the slightly larger models that we were all starting to build to accept the more powerful and slightly heavier .40 size engines that were beginning to become available....
LL~
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #65 on: November 25, 2019, 04:53:11 PM »
Wayne, the pylon is glued to the wing but the tank bolts on. I was pretty happy. The tank and pylon weighed in at about 15 grams.

Bob, hope mine lasts awhile. I'm planning to use basically the same setup I used in the ill fated Mirage. It seemed to have plenty of power. 2826-10 930kv motor, 60 amp esc, Hubin timer and a 4 cell, 2800mAh battery.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2019, 05:52:27 PM »
Bit more progress. Both drop tanks done, the cowl is roughly fitted, main gear bent but still working on the gear doors and about half done with a battery hold down system. Just about ready to complete the flaps and then it will be on to final sanding and finish.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2019, 10:24:01 PM »

 Looks cool. I bet it's gonna be some fun blending those intakes into the wing.
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2019, 08:22:46 AM »
What a beautiful job of building, Randy; I feel like a proud grandpa!

I forgot just how big that plane was, and just how difficult some of the features were to make. You did a fantastic job, but, then again, you always do!  y1

Can't wait to see it finished.

Later - Bob 

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #69 on: December 01, 2019, 08:48:12 PM »
Man, it's been a ride.  Parts of this plane are insanely difficult, but it's should be cool. I'm having a ball building it. Bob is a genius. Clearly.

 ;D
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #70 on: December 01, 2019, 11:57:46 PM »
This is bringing back memories of all the insane things we built in the 60's and 70's.   This one was one of my favorites. I wish I had built it.  I did build one along the lines of the F-14 with the huge intakes.  Didn't last long, faulty clevis but it flew remarkably well.  I was surprised that all that junk under the wing and intakes had no noticeable impact on how well it flew.  That 2nd picture has "Fly Me" written all over it.  Anybody who worked on these magnificent planes will never forget the sound of the AB makes when they take off with a full load.  "Thud" and the ground shakes, which ironically is not where it got it's nickname!  Paint it up as a 105F. (I never give up)

Ken

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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #71 on: December 05, 2019, 04:31:12 PM »
I like the "F" but no camo.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #72 on: December 05, 2019, 07:04:25 PM »
 Man this one is tough. I keep searching every so often for '104 schemes but it's either camo or semi-boring bare aluminum with very minimal squadron coloring. Apparently there were no "colorful" groups using them. All I do know is the world doesn't really need another model done in a Thunderbird scheme.
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Wayne Willey
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #73 on: December 06, 2019, 01:20:40 PM »
Say hey Randy, drive'em nuts and go for a  Blue Angles theme.  LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
Have you ever encountered a pissed off Weasel? ~^

Just for grins I went back and looked at 105f/g paint schemes and except for some of the most God awful sharks noses and some naked women, that has to be the most boring plane in history.  I did find one that was painted yellow on a video, then it got hit by a missile - a target drone.  Don't think that I would paint one up to look like a target drone. I tried to find some pictures of the prototypes since they usually paint them up pretty but found zero.

Good Luck Randy

Ken
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #74 on: December 08, 2019, 12:39:24 PM »
I found the paint scheme I'm going to use, but it doesn't vary much from Bob's original.  Two tone gray, some blue and red and a touch of yellow.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #75 on: December 08, 2019, 08:19:51 PM »
I found the paint scheme I'm going to use, but it doesn't vary much from Bob's original.  Two tone gray, some blue and red and a touch of yellow.

 Cool, anxious to see this one.  y1
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Wayne Willey
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2019, 05:01:50 PM »
The vents look better in person.
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Offline Bob Hudak

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2019, 08:03:34 PM »
Ditch the silver and use white instead, it's not full scale. Built an electric F105 in 2013. The retracts have been trouble free. Yes she still flies!
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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #78 on: December 11, 2019, 07:50:45 AM »
The vents look better in person.

They look pretty good in the photos too!

I'm having dreams (and a few nightmares...) about the time in which I built my F-105. I can remember having to stop and think a while about how to make some of the parts of this plane. Not sure I'd tackle it again. Kudos all around for everything you've done on this ship. I'm certain it will be beautiful, just like all your other planes. I'm also very grateful that you chose one of my designs for your Nostalgia 30/Super 70s plane.

Attached are some photos of another one of my designs that is Classic/Nostalgia 30 legal. It was designed in 1969, and built over the winter of 1969/1970. It was called the Avanti (Yes, it predated Bob Baron's Avanti by several years...), and it flew wonderfully. I may reprise this one at some point.

Later - Bob


Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #79 on: December 16, 2019, 03:07:27 PM »
So, one flap done. All that's left is the outboard flap and fairings.
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #80 on: December 23, 2019, 09:21:56 AM »
So, it's built. Doing the wiring at the moment then will move on to final sanding and begin the finish. I will say, this thing has extremely free controls. Been awhile since I built a plane that just the weight of the flaps will pull them down.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2019, 01:11:23 PM by Randy Powell »
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Offline Bob Hunt

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #81 on: December 23, 2019, 12:06:28 PM »
Gorgeous, Randy, just Gorgeous. Of course, I'm just a bit biased...

Merry CHRISTmas - Bob

Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #82 on: December 23, 2019, 12:39:29 PM »
Throw in a picture or two of the "electronics bay" (sounds better than "tank compartment") when you get it finished.  I am curious how you laid it out.  Are you venting through the spinner gap?  All of my electrics have a huge front intake and a whole bunch of rear vents.  You don't have any way to do that. 

Can't wait to see it finished.

ken
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #83 on: December 23, 2019, 01:08:50 PM »
Well, unfortunately, I had to cut a bunch of vents. Shame, that.
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Offline wwwarbird

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #84 on: December 23, 2019, 07:05:52 PM »
Well, unfortunately, I had to cut a bunch of vents. Shame, that.

 You know, if it had a "tank compartment"...  VD~

 Seriously though, looks really cool Randy, time to get out the blue stuff!
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Wayne Willey
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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #85 on: December 24, 2019, 11:34:20 AM »
Well, I found out the motor I was going to use is on back order.  May not get to fly at VSC after all. We'll see. Little late to retrofit now.
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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #86 on: December 24, 2019, 09:22:13 PM »

 Ouch, that's a bummer. Didn't you have a motor to work with during the build though? IDK, maybe with electric there's a million of them all with the same dimensions?
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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #87 on: December 25, 2019, 12:16:20 AM »
Cobra 2826/12 or the BadAss 2826-690 or 2826-1030 should all fit.  I elaborated on your other thread but I may have been thinking a front mount.  From the early pix it appears you used a rear mount.  Even with a rear mount, those three motors should fit.  There is a 1.5mm difference in overall length with the BadAss. 

Ken
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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #88 on: December 25, 2019, 04:51:51 AM »
If you need a motor, Randy, just give me a shout and I'll either send you one of mine, or I will find one for you that fits your needs, my treat. You MUST take this beauty to VSC. Heck, I might even fly out there just to see you fly it!

Later - Bob Hunt


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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #89 on: December 26, 2019, 10:14:03 AM »
Thanks for the offer, guys. I found one. I wanted to have two separate setups. If the thing ends up being tail heavy (a possibility), I wanted a heavier drive train to use instead of adding nose weight.

So Setup Number 1:

Cobra 2826/10 930kv motor, 60amp ECS, Hubin Timer and 4s 2800 mAh battery.

or

Cobra 2826/12 760kv motor, same ESC and timer, 5s 2800 mAh battery.

When I built it, I had the 2826/12. Either setup would work but I prefer the lighter one if possible.
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Offline Ken Culbertson

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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #90 on: December 26, 2019, 11:24:56 AM »
Thanks for the offer, guys. I found one. I wanted to have two separate setups. If the thing ends up being tail heavy (a possibility), I wanted a heavier drive train to use instead of adding nose weight.

So Setup Number 1:

Cobra 2826/10 930kv motor, 60amp ECS, Hubin Timer and 4s 2800 mAh battery.

or

Cobra 2826/12 760kv motor, same ESC and timer, 5s 2800 mAh battery.

When I built it, I had the 2826/12. Either setup would work but I prefer the lighter one if possible.
I run your "or" setup on my classic Nobler.  I have to use a 4s to shoehorn it in.  The 2800 will barely finish the pattern.  It should be fine on a 5s.

I would be curious to know what your battery usage will be on the 2826/10.  It should be less than the /12.  Reason I ask is that I am converting another ship that has plenty of room.  I was going to get a new motor.  If what you are doing works, I can move the /12 to the other ship and get a /10 for the Nobler.  Or I could just get another 2820/12 but it won't take a 5s and, who knows how small batteries will be next year!

You going to fly it unfinished?  I would.

Ken
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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #91 on: December 26, 2019, 03:00:55 PM »
I used the 2826/10 with 11x5 three blade carbon prop and a 4s battery in my Mirage. 620sq inches and weighed, well, a lot. 68oz ready to fly. left about 15-16% in battery. Plenty of power.
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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #92 on: December 28, 2019, 08:26:44 PM »
Well. it's built. Took about 6 hours to fit all the stuff in the nose. Lots of modifications to get stuff to fit. But all up ready to fly with 5s battery (I'll probably be using a 4s), prop, spinner, wheels, ESC, timer and arming system came up to 54oz. Heavier than I wanted but with 4s ~3oz less. Balance is pretty far forward so should work with 4s and finish.

And that's not the prop I'm using.
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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #93 on: December 28, 2019, 09:38:26 PM »

 Way cool Randy. What's the backwards scoopy looking thing on the left side of the nose?
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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #94 on: December 30, 2019, 09:28:42 AM »
Had to have some place to put the start button.
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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #95 on: December 30, 2019, 10:08:17 PM »

 Does anyone make a simple remote start setup for these things?
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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #96 on: December 31, 2019, 11:47:58 AM »
Probably.
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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #97 on: January 04, 2020, 06:35:57 PM »
OK, so it's covered. Man, this is going to need a lot of sanding. GM on wings, 00 everywhere else.
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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #98 on: January 17, 2020, 09:59:54 PM »

 Must still be sanding?  ;D
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Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
« Reply #99 on: January 23, 2020, 02:41:48 PM »
And sanding and sanding and sanding.......  Om-Madai-Padi-Ummmmm....

Doing 600 wet right now. Then it will be color time. Tomorrow, I hope.

Had an interruption. My wife took a dive off her horse and severely dislocated her hand and fractured her wrist. The last week I've been nursing her after surgery and such. Threw my schedule off a bit.  ;D
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