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Nostalgia 30 => Nostalgia 30 => Topic started by: Randy Powell on July 29, 2019, 01:56:50 PM

Title: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on July 29, 2019, 01:56:50 PM
So, I'm considering building a Super 70s plane. I'm waiting to hear of that class will be included at the contests I plan to attend next year.

More later when I get word back. It's going to be cool if I do build it.
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on July 29, 2019, 03:23:54 PM
So, I will post here as I get started on it. Looking forward to a new project. I'm excited to build a plane for the first time in a long time.

Wheeeee!!!!
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on July 29, 2019, 09:42:33 PM
It's going to be cool if I do build it.

 Well duh, that's a given.  y1
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Gordon Van Tighem on July 30, 2019, 12:23:15 PM
Always thought one of these would be fun....

https://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4019.0;attach=183390;image
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Airacobra on July 30, 2019, 01:48:10 PM
Very nice design and right up your alley!!!!
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on July 30, 2019, 02:40:34 PM
I've built a Novi IV before. It's different.

My plan will make Wayne happy. I'm planning to build a Bob Hunt F-105 Thunderchief. Started cutting out the templates last night. I'm already looking over scale paint schemes.
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Shug Emery on July 30, 2019, 05:59:14 PM
Will you fly in striped bell-bottoms and white shoes?  70's Class!
Shug
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on July 30, 2019, 09:53:35 PM
I've built a Novi IV before. It's different.

My plan will make Wayne happy. I'm planning to build a Bob Hunt F-105 Thunderchief. Started cutting out the templates last night. I'm already looking over scale paint schemes.

 HA! SWEET!!!  #^
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Gordon Van Tighem on July 31, 2019, 10:48:32 PM
Here's a couple...
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Air Ministry . on August 01, 2019, 09:39:35 PM
" I'm already looking over scale paint schemes.  "

Theres about two or three and a shark mouth , I think . :( One can always use a hypothetical paint scheme .

(https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/02/d6/35/c0/octave-chanute-aerospace.jpg)

Like Navy or Marines or N A S A  , or one from a parrallel universe .

(http://www.ourworlds.net/blackhawk/models/blackhawk_f-105.jpg)
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on August 01, 2019, 11:59:45 PM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/F-105G_landing_at_Korat_Dec_1972.jpg

Why not a Weasel?  One of our birds from "Back in the Day"

Ken
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Air Ministry . on August 02, 2019, 11:17:49 PM
Indeed . The Thuder Birds & the Silver have already been taken .  S?P
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: john e. holliday on August 04, 2019, 04:31:59 PM
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/F-105G_landing_at_Korat_Dec_1972.jpg

Why not a Weasel?  One of our birds from "Back in the Day"

Ken

That is one vicious looking plane. D>K
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Airacobra on August 05, 2019, 11:05:24 AM
I love to watch Randy build and posts his pictures. Skilled builder with cool paint schemes, this should be fun to watch.
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on August 05, 2019, 11:40:16 AM
That is one vicious looking plane. D>K
I would use the same adjective to describe what it was like to work on it!

Ken 
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on August 13, 2019, 06:03:41 PM
So, back from vacation and started the actual building yesterday. I conned Pat Johnston into laser cutting the ribs. Thanks Pat!
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on August 15, 2019, 11:34:07 AM
Have a great build, Randy!

Here are a couple of photos of my original F-105. These photos were taken by the late Don McGovern.

Later - Bob

Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on August 18, 2019, 11:33:07 AM
Thanks, Bob. Cool pictures. And I found a canopy. Turns out ParkFlyers had one that was really close. Go figure.

And, more progress. Took a bit to get the wing jig set up because I had to machine new chocks. But we made it. LE, TE on the wing finally done. 36 hinge pockets built (what a pain). Will start assembling the wing today. Cool.
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on August 18, 2019, 09:58:51 PM

 Excited to see this one come together, what's the power plan?
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on August 19, 2019, 07:51:30 PM
Not sure. Electric for sure, but probably a 2826-12 with 5 cell battery and 60am esc. Probably. With this nose, it will be cool without the IC head hanging down. Like all planes, a bunch of work in areas that are not so noticeable then it will come together all at once.

 ;D

More progress.
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on August 19, 2019, 08:24:25 PM
 Cool, I figured it'd be an electric jobbie.

 I've done quite a bit of searching for color scheme ideas for this one, not much out there other than the camo versions. I don't know if there were ever any bare aluminum ANG versions but if so a nicely detailed Washington ANG scheme would be pretty cool. The T-Bird's scheme seems the obvious choice but that's exactly the problem with it, too obvious and done a million times already.  S?P ;D
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on August 19, 2019, 11:09:27 PM
Cool, I figured it'd be an electric jobbie.

 I've done quite a bit of searching for color scheme ideas for this one, not much out there other than the camo versions. I don't know if there were ever any bare aluminum ANG versions but if so a nicely detailed Washington ANG scheme would be pretty cool. The T-Bird's scheme seems the obvious choice but that's exactly the problem with it, too obvious and done a million times already.  S?P ;D
I have seen a couple of bare aluminum ones but I have no idea where they were stationed.

http://www.thisdayinaviation.com/10-august-1961/republic-f-105d-3/

They may have just been stripped to be repainted in SEA camouflage.  Only way to go - 2 man Weasel.  Has the sharks teeth and everything.

Ken
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on August 20, 2019, 10:03:00 AM
I suspect the paint scheme with be similar to Bob's original. I've found a couple scale versions I like, too.

We'll see.
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on August 20, 2019, 12:42:23 PM
I suspect the paint scheme with be similar to Bob's original. I've found a couple scale versions I like, too.

We'll see.
This has got to be the least painted plane in history.  Nothing worth duplicating.  It's T-Bird, Flat Gray, Silver or SEA Camouflage .  Such a popular plane that nobody but our Air Force flew it.   Even the prototypes were plane Jane.  Still, the "G" model has a place in my heart.  Lost a lot of good men in that plane.  If you won't do the weasel, do the T-Bird.  It may have been done 1,000 times before but it really stands out in a crowd.  Other than that it is just adding panel lines to the base coat.

You'll come up with something and it will be good.  Keep the pictures coming, I am really curious how you spread out the electric parts.

Ken
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on August 20, 2019, 06:31:10 PM
Not doing a camo scheme. But there are a couple I'm looking at.
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on August 20, 2019, 09:27:06 PM
Not doing a camo scheme. But there are a couple I'm looking at.

 I did see some other photos of that one with the red tail too, might be kinda cool. It's one of the few I found with any amount of color.

 Another possibility is just dreaming up your own fictitious (but believeable) scheme. That's what I did a while back with my modified "NAVY" Skyray, with "MN" incorporated on the tail to signify Minnesota...

 https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/'skyray-my-way'-finished-photos/msg21692/#msg21692

 Whatever the decision, I'm confident something cool will come out of the "Powellworks".  y1
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on August 21, 2019, 10:34:44 AM
Wayne,

The sign on my shop door says, "Mocker's Rest".

Makes sense if you're a Raymond Feist fan.
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on August 21, 2019, 09:18:37 PM

 Uhh, had to Google that one...sounds like the JCT had better tread lightly.
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on August 31, 2019, 08:05:42 PM
More progress. Stab is built but not shaped. Fuse is framed. just planking the wing. Also have a 3-view. Bob was closer than he thought.
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on August 31, 2019, 11:11:23 PM
Bob was closer then he thought.

 Huh?
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Air Ministry . on August 31, 2019, 11:43:09 PM
Paint ?

what about the one with the naked pin up girl nose art .
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on September 02, 2019, 08:10:55 PM
Wayne,

Bob said he just sort of put a ton of inkines on the original. Seems there were a ton of panel lines on the original.

And more progress. Tough weekend. Spent most of it working outside. My back is whining at me.
Title: Re: Considering a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on September 02, 2019, 09:44:37 PM
Wayne,

Bob said he just sort of put a ton of inkines on the original. Seems there were a tone of panel lines.


 Ahh, makes sense now. Comparing with the above photos of Bob's original, he must have found the panel line reference after he did his.  ;)

 
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on September 03, 2019, 05:58:01 PM
I want Bob to know that I am building exactly according to the plan. So, no molded balsa, no alterations. I broke out some very light balsa (less than 4lb stock) I've been saving for a special occasion.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on September 03, 2019, 09:33:54 PM
I want Bob to know that I am building exactly according to the plan. So, no molded balsa, no alterations. I broke out some very light balsa (less than 4lb stock) I've been saving for a special occasion.

 Doesn't the plan show an IC engine?  S?P :## :## :##
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on September 04, 2019, 06:10:10 PM
Haha. OK, I did change something. I put in an electric motor mount.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on September 04, 2019, 09:14:04 PM

 Sorry, couldn't resist that one.  ;D
 
 

 
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on September 05, 2019, 05:14:33 AM
Trust me, Randy, if electric had been available (and developed to the current state) when I designed the F-105, it would have been electric powered! The thought of how that nose will look without that ugly engine head sticking down is reason enough to build this one as an electric powered model. The fact that it will also enhance the performance way beyond what the glow motor used did is a bonus!

I'm very honored and proud that you chose one of my designs to build for Nostalgia/Super Seventies. I've been seriously thinking about building a Les McDonald-designed Stiletto 660. I always thought that series of models was among the most beautiful of all time. I especially liked the Stiletto 700, but there are no plans available for that one, and the model is long gone, so none can be drawn from it. Very sad.

Later - Bob Hunt

 
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on September 05, 2019, 11:36:12 AM
Les did nice work.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Air Ministry . on September 05, 2019, 10:31:26 PM
Vivid tecnicolour .

(https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/35-size-stiletto-airplane/?action=dlattach;attach=33475)

https://stunthanger.com/smf/open-forum/35-size-stiletto-airplane/

Find enough pictures of it , and over time contemplateing / interpreting , youd get something pretty close .
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on September 06, 2019, 08:45:42 PM
Les did nice work.

 To say the least!  y1
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on September 11, 2019, 02:53:52 PM
No work on the new plane. Flew in a contest last weekend and haven't got back to it. Just love carving blocks.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on September 22, 2019, 05:05:34 PM
It sorta looks like a plane. Kinda.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on September 24, 2019, 03:28:38 AM
Yeah, that's starting to look very familiar...

Bob
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on September 25, 2019, 03:44:23 PM
Yep. I love this thing.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on October 01, 2019, 04:06:48 PM
Sub-dorsal rudder looks bigger on the plane than it did on the plans
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on October 06, 2019, 08:57:34 PM

 How's it going out there?
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on October 07, 2019, 01:22:10 PM
OK, so far, Wayne.

Here's a couple of pics. Turns out the canopy I was going to use won't work. I'm deciding if I'm going to make one or just use a simulated canopy.

I'm going on vacation this weekend for 2 weeks so this is probably the last update for a bit.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on October 07, 2019, 08:16:41 PM

 Coming along nicely!  y1
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on November 01, 2019, 05:24:29 PM
Copped out and did a simulated canopy. Bob will be unhappy. Looks better in person than in the pictures.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on November 01, 2019, 10:57:02 PM

 Welcome back Randy, looking forward to more progress.  y1
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on November 11, 2019, 01:08:04 PM
So, a bit more progress. Fitting the jet intakes and cowl. Still haven't figured out how to set up the arming plug and start button
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on November 11, 2019, 03:32:21 PM
... Still haven't figured out how to set up the arming plug and start button
Your layout is similar to mine.  FYI I love the huge bottom hatch.  I put the arming plug in the hatch. I bend the leads on the start button and re-solder to put it right next to the timer.  Since you are going to have to flip it over to change batteries anyway, why not have access to everything.

Ken
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on November 11, 2019, 06:55:15 PM
You've got about 3 times the space. It's more figuring out where to put the battery plugin. I'm using Dean's bulkhead mounts.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on November 11, 2019, 07:15:43 PM
You are bringing back great memories, Randy, and a few nightmares... Fitting and carving the intakes as I remember was a challenge.

You are doing a fantastic job! (Is anyone here surprised?)

Later - Bob Hunt
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on November 11, 2019, 09:36:10 PM
Still haven't figured out how to set up the arming plug and start button

 That's easy, the arming plug screws into the cylinder head and the start button is on your starter. Glad I could help.  VD~
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on November 12, 2019, 12:37:37 AM
You've got about 3 times the space. It's more figuring out where to put the battery plugin. I'm using Dean's bulkhead mounts.
You may be right, I kept the pipe tunnel in the design so I probably have more room at the bottom.  I used the same concept on a converted ARF Nobler and got both the timer and the arming plug into the cowling leaving the entire tank compartment for the battery with the esc between the mounts under the battery.  Still the most I could fit was a stubby 4s.  Turnegy makes a rather thin 4s and 5s in there "Nano" line that would probably fit in around the 3000 - 3300 size.  Not as light as the Thunderpower but they perform well.

I have gone to placing the esc into the wing area behind the battery to keep it from forcing cooling vents in the top and to move some weight closer to the CG.  I was tired of having to add tail weight.  Hopefully in what is left of my usable lifetime we will have a battery that doesn't weigh so much and is smaller.

It is hard with the "Classics"/N30's to find room for a decent size battery.

I absolutely love the plane so far, even if you aren't going to paint it as a Weasel!

Ken
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on November 13, 2019, 10:55:41 PM
Thanks for the nice comments. Glad I'm causing Bob some harsh flashbacks. It's a fun plane to build overall. Lot of challenges but hey, that's why we do this stuff.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on November 14, 2019, 08:12:42 PM
It's a fun plane to build overall. Lot of challenges but hey, that's why we do this stuff.

 Fun to watch people build these designs that can do them justice too.  y1
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on November 17, 2019, 04:51:50 PM
Still working on pieces. Carving and fitting the air intakes and drop tanks. Bob had an evil turn of mind when he designed this dude. Sill messing with shapes. Started on the flaps, too. Decided to finish much of the front of the air intakes before mounting them. Later it will be too big a pain to get in there. Still fitting electronics. Another joy.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on November 19, 2019, 07:42:50 AM
Whoosh! I love the way you handled the scoops! That was the most challenging part for me when I built mine.

You are building a masterpiece!

By the way, I turned my drop tanks on a Logan lathe.

Later - Bob
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on November 24, 2019, 05:12:11 PM
Well Bob, the tanks have been the most challenging for me. I hogged the intakes all out and put a backstop to imitate an inset. I finished the intake part up to ready to paint as I didn't think I could get in there to sand after they were on. Got one drop tank done. Sheesh, that was a ton of work.   ;D
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on November 24, 2019, 06:21:21 PM

 Will the tanks be removable or will they be along for the ride?
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on November 25, 2019, 06:20:51 AM
Well Bob, the tanks have been the most challenging for me. I hogged the intakes all out and put a backstop to imitate an inset. I finished the intake part up to ready to paint as I didn't think I could get in there to sand after they were on. Got one drop tank done. Sheesh, that was a ton of work.   ;D

LOL! I know exactly what you mean, Randy; if I had known just how much work and how many challenges the F-105 would entail, I probably would not have designed and built it!

The following is an excerpt from my almost finished Genesis Saga book (Which will be available soon on CD and it will have dozens of neat old photos) that explains a bit about the F-105.

Later - Bob

I jumped back to the jet camp again, and designed a stunter around the lines of the Republic F-105 Thunderchief in early 1970. I didn’t build that model right away, however. I thought that the large drop tanks I had drawn would induce too much drag, and so I shelved the design for a while.

Vic Macaluso had designed a very striking semi-scale version of the  Crusader around that time that featured anhedral in the wing. None of us thought that it would fly like that, but Vic had the last laugh by coming up with a model that eventually won almost every contest on the East Coast in 1970.

Vic’s jet had many relief details on the fuselage in the form of fairings and scoops. It also had a set of very realistic drop tanks that were fitted to pylons that were attached to the wing. Very original and very impressive was the Crusader. Even more amazing was the fact that Vic built and finished this gorgeous model in but eight weeks!
 
I had always liked the side-view shape of the F-105 Thunderchief, but initially discarded it because the head of the model engine would stick down from the slim nose and spoil the jet look. The Sabre Jet configuration was a natural for hiding the engine and I suppose that is why so many of them have been designed as semi-scale stunters over the years.

The Thunderchief would also have to be built as an in-line design. The engine thrust line, wing centerline and tail centerline were all on the same line! I had heard that this configuration might cause problems, especially with the vertical center of gravity. Add to that the fact that this model would have tricycle landing gear and simulated drop tanks, and the potential vertical CG problem loomed even larger.

   Naturally, with all those negatives going for this design, I decided to go ahead and build it anyway! Hey, sometimes a good-looking design just has to be tried in spite of the logic of physics… Did it work? You bet! The “Thud” turned out to be a really great flying model that turned equally upright and inverted. In fact, the model flew decidedly better with the removable drop tanks attached! I think the extra drag allowed me to power-up the OS Max H40S a bit more than normal and have something to “pull” against. Whatever the reasons, that model flew very nicely indeed and it carried me to that elusive first win in the Open class, against worthy competition.

The Chipmunk wing had proven to be a great choice for the slightly larger models that we were all starting to build to accept the more powerful and slightly heavier .40 size engines that were beginning to become available. Instead of making the whole wing larger in span and chord for the F-105, I decided to go for a more high-aspect ratio look and simply extend the span while keeping the stock root and tip chord dimensions. I really liked the high-aspect look, and I fully intend to re-visit it very soon with a new model design. 

The Thunderchief was my first published design. I was invited to fly it in a modeling demonstration in Nyack, New York in the fall of 1971, and the legendary model magazine editor, Don McGovern was in attendance. He just loved that model, and he asked me if I would like to have it appear in Flying Models magazine. I quickly accepted his offer, and spent the rest of that fall preparing the article and inking the plans.

Around Christmas in 1971 the article package was ready for Don’s perusal and he invited me to his home in Centereach, Long Island just two days before I was scheduled to leave for the 1972 King Orange Internationals meet in Florida. I was really nervous about meeting with this modeling legend in his home one-on-one. I was even more nervous that he would say my work was not up to magazine standards. I was just a wreck as I made the long trek out onto the “Island.”

As it turned out, Don really liked the article package and we went out to a local field to get a few photos of the model. Don had told me when he purchased the article that I could not depict a foam wing on the plan. At that time there were not too many foam wing stunt models being built, and there were really only two commercial foam wing cutters that specialized in cutting CL Stunt wings (Foam-Flite and my newly formed Control Line Specialties Company). Don wanted to be certain that this model could be constructed in the normal manner as well as with a foam core wing. I wasn’t even sure that the built-up wing I drew on the plans would go together correctly!

I had thought up a really neat fixture that incorporated two pieces of ¼ -inch thick balsa that would serve as the actual leading and trailing edges. They were to have a piece of 1/8-inch square balsa glued at a point that would pick-up the center of the ribs, which in turn were to have 1/8-inch notches cut accurately at the front and rear. The ¼-inch balsa pieces extended down to the bench top and when assembled the wing was suspended between them. Sort of like the Lincoln-Log method that Tom Morris came up with years later, only the fixture pieces were trimmed to be the actual leading and trailing edges after the wing was constructed.

Fortunately I found out that the wing depicted on the plans was easy to build and turned out warp free. Several modelers have built that design with that wing. Today I’d opt for the Lost-Foam system to build this wing, and I recently received a photo of a Thunderchief that Ed Capitanelli built that way. It’s gorgeous - just like all of Ed’s work!

The Thud placed in or won many contests over its two-year life span, and then it bit the dust in a most embarrassing way.

In March of 1973 I attended the annual spring meet in Warminster, Pennsylvania at the Johnstown Naval Research Facility (that’s where the centrifuge that was used for Astronaut training was located!). That contest had become known for very bad weather conditions, but I wanted to go anyway. Billy Simons tagged along, but he warned me that it was going to be very windy at the contest site. To say that he was correct in that assumption would be a monumental understatement! But, hey, we were there and there was a contest.

Billy opted to leave his brand new Gambit (A ship also built around those “Secret Moments” that Gene had pioneered) safely in the car. I wasn’t that smart. I decided to enter and fly. Bill tried very hard to talk me out of that decision. As I wrote earlier, Bill Simons was always the voice of reason…

The wind was blowing a constant 18 to 20 mph. And it was a cold wind; the type that has real “push” to it. I fired up the OS .40H and took off on what would quickly become the farewell journey for the Thunderchief.

It was so windy that the increased line tension downwind forced me to use both hands on the handle through maneuvers. Try that sometime. Anyway, I managed to make it safely all the way to the inside square loops. The Thunderchief was rocketing through the maneuver and was pulling like a freight train at the pull out point. On the downward portion of the second inside square the up line snapped. With such incredible line pull the model was fed full down control instantly, as the model was now being tethered by only one line. The result was the most amazing outside corner you ever saw, but, albeit, at only five foot altitude. The result was predictable; the model hit the ground hard at about a 45 degree angle. Did I mention that it hit hard?

As I think back on it now, like during any catastrophe, time went into a sort of warp, and all of it seemed to be happening in ultra slow motion. Just after the airplane hit the asphalt and disintegrated, all the pieces “bounced” up into the air as if straining to erase what had just happened. I vividly remember that all the pieces were in relatively the right orientation, only they were several feet apart. The result was a momentary image of this surreal model that was flying but not connected part-to-part. It was one of the most eerie moments in my life. Still is to this day.

As if the crash and loss of my best model (my only model really…) was not bad enough, I now had to face one Bill Simons who was in full “I told you so, Dummy” mode. I was scolded good and proper, and he really never did let me forget that day.

Alas, I reconciled that I would have to go home and get to work on a new ship right away. I was heading for my car when a youngster ran up to me and asked if I was the flier who crashed the model. “Yes, that was me,” I answered, and then he held out his hand which contained the badly bent remains of the rear cone section of the 2-inch diameter Veco Needle Nose spinner and asked, “Do you know where the front part of this is?” At that point I wanted to cry.


Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on November 25, 2019, 07:37:51 AM
......a great choice for the slightly larger models that we were all starting to build to accept the more powerful and slightly heavier .40 size engines that were beginning to become available....
LL~
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on November 25, 2019, 04:53:11 PM
Wayne, the pylon is glued to the wing but the tank bolts on. I was pretty happy. The tank and pylon weighed in at about 15 grams.

Bob, hope mine lasts awhile. I'm planning to use basically the same setup I used in the ill fated Mirage. It seemed to have plenty of power. 2826-10 930kv motor, 60 amp esc, Hubin timer and a 4 cell, 2800mAh battery.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on November 30, 2019, 05:52:27 PM
Bit more progress. Both drop tanks done, the cowl is roughly fitted, main gear bent but still working on the gear doors and about half done with a battery hold down system. Just about ready to complete the flaps and then it will be on to final sanding and finish.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on November 30, 2019, 10:24:01 PM

 Looks cool. I bet it's gonna be some fun blending those intakes into the wing.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on December 01, 2019, 08:22:46 AM
What a beautiful job of building, Randy; I feel like a proud grandpa!

I forgot just how big that plane was, and just how difficult some of the features were to make. You did a fantastic job, but, then again, you always do!  y1

Can't wait to see it finished.

Later - Bob 
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on December 01, 2019, 08:48:12 PM
Man, it's been a ride.  Parts of this plane are insanely difficult, but it's should be cool. I'm having a ball building it. Bob is a genius. Clearly.

 ;D
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on December 01, 2019, 11:57:46 PM
This is bringing back memories of all the insane things we built in the 60's and 70's.   This one was one of my favorites. I wish I had built it.  I did build one along the lines of the F-14 with the huge intakes.  Didn't last long, faulty clevis but it flew remarkably well.  I was surprised that all that junk under the wing and intakes had no noticeable impact on how well it flew.  That 2nd picture has "Fly Me" written all over it.  Anybody who worked on these magnificent planes will never forget the sound of the AB makes when they take off with a full load.  "Thud" and the ground shakes, which ironically is not where it got it's nickname!  Paint it up as a 105F. (I never give up)

Ken

Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on December 05, 2019, 04:31:12 PM
I like the "F" but no camo.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on December 05, 2019, 07:04:25 PM
 Man this one is tough. I keep searching every so often for '104 schemes but it's either camo or semi-boring bare aluminum with very minimal squadron coloring. Apparently there were no "colorful" groups using them. All I do know is the world doesn't really need another model done in a Thunderbird scheme.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on December 06, 2019, 01:20:40 PM
Say hey Randy, drive'em nuts and go for a  Blue Angles theme.  LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~ LL~
Have you ever encountered a pissed off Weasel? ~^

Just for grins I went back and looked at 105f/g paint schemes and except for some of the most God awful sharks noses and some naked women, that has to be the most boring plane in history.  I did find one that was painted yellow on a video, then it got hit by a missile - a target drone.  Don't think that I would paint one up to look like a target drone. I tried to find some pictures of the prototypes since they usually paint them up pretty but found zero.

Good Luck Randy

Ken
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on December 08, 2019, 12:39:24 PM
I found the paint scheme I'm going to use, but it doesn't vary much from Bob's original.  Two tone gray, some blue and red and a touch of yellow.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on December 08, 2019, 08:19:51 PM
I found the paint scheme I'm going to use, but it doesn't vary much from Bob's original.  Two tone gray, some blue and red and a touch of yellow.

 Cool, anxious to see this one.  y1
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on December 09, 2019, 05:01:50 PM
The vents look better in person.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hudak on December 09, 2019, 08:03:34 PM
Ditch the silver and use white instead, it's not full scale. Built an electric F105 in 2013. The retracts have been trouble free. Yes she still flies!
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on December 11, 2019, 07:50:45 AM
The vents look better in person.

They look pretty good in the photos too!

I'm having dreams (and a few nightmares...) about the time in which I built my F-105. I can remember having to stop and think a while about how to make some of the parts of this plane. Not sure I'd tackle it again. Kudos all around for everything you've done on this ship. I'm certain it will be beautiful, just like all your other planes. I'm also very grateful that you chose one of my designs for your Nostalgia 30/Super 70s plane.

Attached are some photos of another one of my designs that is Classic/Nostalgia 30 legal. It was designed in 1969, and built over the winter of 1969/1970. It was called the Avanti (Yes, it predated Bob Baron's Avanti by several years...), and it flew wonderfully. I may reprise this one at some point.

Later - Bob

Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on December 16, 2019, 03:07:27 PM
So, one flap done. All that's left is the outboard flap and fairings.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on December 23, 2019, 09:21:56 AM
So, it's built. Doing the wiring at the moment then will move on to final sanding and begin the finish. I will say, this thing has extremely free controls. Been awhile since I built a plane that just the weight of the flaps will pull them down.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on December 23, 2019, 12:06:28 PM
Gorgeous, Randy, just Gorgeous. Of course, I'm just a bit biased...

Merry CHRISTmas - Bob
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on December 23, 2019, 12:39:29 PM
Throw in a picture or two of the "electronics bay" (sounds better than "tank compartment") when you get it finished.  I am curious how you laid it out.  Are you venting through the spinner gap?  All of my electrics have a huge front intake and a whole bunch of rear vents.  You don't have any way to do that. 

Can't wait to see it finished.

ken
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on December 23, 2019, 01:08:50 PM
Well, unfortunately, I had to cut a bunch of vents. Shame, that.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on December 23, 2019, 07:05:52 PM
Well, unfortunately, I had to cut a bunch of vents. Shame, that.

 You know, if it had a "tank compartment"...  VD~

 Seriously though, looks really cool Randy, time to get out the blue stuff!
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on December 24, 2019, 11:34:20 AM
Well, I found out the motor I was going to use is on back order.  May not get to fly at VSC after all. We'll see. Little late to retrofit now.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on December 24, 2019, 09:22:13 PM

 Ouch, that's a bummer. Didn't you have a motor to work with during the build though? IDK, maybe with electric there's a million of them all with the same dimensions?
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on December 25, 2019, 12:16:20 AM
Cobra 2826/12 or the BadAss 2826-690 or 2826-1030 should all fit.  I elaborated on your other thread but I may have been thinking a front mount.  From the early pix it appears you used a rear mount.  Even with a rear mount, those three motors should fit.  There is a 1.5mm difference in overall length with the BadAss. 

Ken
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on December 25, 2019, 04:51:51 AM
If you need a motor, Randy, just give me a shout and I'll either send you one of mine, or I will find one for you that fits your needs, my treat. You MUST take this beauty to VSC. Heck, I might even fly out there just to see you fly it!

Later - Bob Hunt

Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on December 26, 2019, 10:14:03 AM
Thanks for the offer, guys. I found one. I wanted to have two separate setups. If the thing ends up being tail heavy (a possibility), I wanted a heavier drive train to use instead of adding nose weight.

So Setup Number 1:

Cobra 2826/10 930kv motor, 60amp ECS, Hubin Timer and 4s 2800 mAh battery.

or

Cobra 2826/12 760kv motor, same ESC and timer, 5s 2800 mAh battery.

When I built it, I had the 2826/12. Either setup would work but I prefer the lighter one if possible.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on December 26, 2019, 11:24:56 AM
Thanks for the offer, guys. I found one. I wanted to have two separate setups. If the thing ends up being tail heavy (a possibility), I wanted a heavier drive train to use instead of adding nose weight.

So Setup Number 1:

Cobra 2826/10 930kv motor, 60amp ECS, Hubin Timer and 4s 2800 mAh battery.

or

Cobra 2826/12 760kv motor, same ESC and timer, 5s 2800 mAh battery.

When I built it, I had the 2826/12. Either setup would work but I prefer the lighter one if possible.
I run your "or" setup on my classic Nobler.  I have to use a 4s to shoehorn it in.  The 2800 will barely finish the pattern.  It should be fine on a 5s.

I would be curious to know what your battery usage will be on the 2826/10.  It should be less than the /12.  Reason I ask is that I am converting another ship that has plenty of room.  I was going to get a new motor.  If what you are doing works, I can move the /12 to the other ship and get a /10 for the Nobler.  Or I could just get another 2820/12 but it won't take a 5s and, who knows how small batteries will be next year!

You going to fly it unfinished?  I would.

Ken
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on December 26, 2019, 03:00:55 PM
I used the 2826/10 with 11x5 three blade carbon prop and a 4s battery in my Mirage. 620sq inches and weighed, well, a lot. 68oz ready to fly. left about 15-16% in battery. Plenty of power.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on December 28, 2019, 08:26:44 PM
Well. it's built. Took about 6 hours to fit all the stuff in the nose. Lots of modifications to get stuff to fit. But all up ready to fly with 5s battery (I'll probably be using a 4s), prop, spinner, wheels, ESC, timer and arming system came up to 54oz. Heavier than I wanted but with 4s ~3oz less. Balance is pretty far forward so should work with 4s and finish.

And that's not the prop I'm using.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on December 28, 2019, 09:38:26 PM

 Way cool Randy. What's the backwards scoopy looking thing on the left side of the nose?
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on December 30, 2019, 09:28:42 AM
Had to have some place to put the start button.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on December 30, 2019, 10:08:17 PM

 Does anyone make a simple remote start setup for these things?
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on December 31, 2019, 11:47:58 AM
Probably.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on January 04, 2020, 06:35:57 PM
OK, so it's covered. Man, this is going to need a lot of sanding. GM on wings, 00 everywhere else.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on January 17, 2020, 09:59:54 PM

 Must still be sanding?  ;D
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on January 23, 2020, 02:41:48 PM
And sanding and sanding and sanding.......  Om-Madai-Padi-Ummmmm....

Doing 600 wet right now. Then it will be color time. Tomorrow, I hope.

Had an interruption. My wife took a dive off her horse and severely dislocated her hand and fractured her wrist. The last week I've been nursing her after surgery and such. Threw my schedule off a bit.  ;D
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on January 31, 2020, 01:27:59 PM
Paint this weekend. WooHoo!!
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on February 02, 2020, 05:10:03 PM
So, some of it's painted.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on February 02, 2020, 09:06:55 PM
OK, I pulled tape. Next is Olive Drab then some Black and some Red and some stripes on the rudder and then......
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on February 02, 2020, 09:57:51 PM

 Nice!  y1
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on February 03, 2020, 04:25:41 PM
Man! Does this bring back memories! I remember when I was painting the original F-105. I was at that point dating the girl (woman now...) who was to become my wife of 45 years and counting. She dutifully stayed with me in the shop and pretended to be interested in the painting process. She hasn't been in my shop except for short visits since... Well, that's not entirely true; sometimes she helps with molding leading edge shells for customer's wings.

You have done a spectacular job, Randy, and I hope your "Thud" flies as well as mine did. If it does, you'll be a happy guy.

Attached is a photo of Marianne and me at a contest in Flushing Meadows in 1972. If you look closely, you'll see the top of the fin of my F-105. This photo - by the way - was taken by Bob Lampione!

Later - Bob
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on February 05, 2020, 03:29:02 PM
Thanks, Bob. Nice picture.  ;D
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Air Ministry . on February 05, 2020, 05:14:51 PM
Looking Good .
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on February 08, 2020, 08:45:56 PM
About half done with trim. Should be able to finish trim plus graphics tomorrow. Then a ton of inklines. Ugh.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on February 08, 2020, 08:53:37 PM
This is the vague guideline.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on February 09, 2020, 07:16:48 AM
Gorgeous, just gorgeous!

Bob Hunt
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: John Leidle on February 09, 2020, 09:51:29 AM
    Looks pretty nice from over on the East side Randy.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on February 09, 2020, 07:57:31 PM
This is the vague guideline.

 I was wondering about the green, but I get it now.  :)
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on February 09, 2020, 09:41:06 PM
I was wondering about the green, but I get it now.  :)
Anti glair.  They painted them with clear lacquer in Germany and they shined.  Randy was smart to pick the 36th.  Most military planes are painted flat.

Ken
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on February 10, 2020, 02:30:47 PM
Seemed the thing.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on February 10, 2020, 02:40:10 PM
Still some black. Then graphics, ink and clear.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on February 10, 2020, 09:17:04 PM
Anti glair.

Ken

 Yep, I knew that, most often anti-glare panels were done in black though. I just thought the green seemed an odd choice for the "Thud", until I saw the reference Randy is using. There are very few F-105 schemes to pick from that have much for color, Randy found a good one here.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on February 16, 2020, 08:49:39 PM
More progress. Man I hate inklines. And I'm bad at them. Shame, that. And the pics aren't very good for some reason. Sigh...
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on February 16, 2020, 09:58:54 PM

 Are those your own waterslides or..?
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on February 18, 2020, 11:40:30 AM
Yes, I made the decals. They came out OK, mostly.

I hate rushing but i'm out of time.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on February 18, 2020, 07:31:33 PM

I hate rushing but i'm out of time.


 Oh yeah, bringing it to Tucson?
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on February 19, 2020, 12:16:21 PM
Wayne,

That's the plan. I hope.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on February 19, 2020, 08:15:43 PM

 10-4, keep on truckin'!
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on February 22, 2020, 10:04:01 AM
The clear is on.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on February 22, 2020, 10:02:00 PM
The clear is on.

 Sounds like Tucson should be too then?
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on February 23, 2020, 06:26:43 AM
This project has been wonderful; especially for me. When someone opts to build a model you have designed, and then does such an amazing job with it as has Randy, well the pride and appreciation is overwhelming. If I could, I would love to book a flight to Tucson this March just to watch Randy fly this masterpiece. Unfortunately, I'm scheduled to undergo some extensive oral surgery just at the time of the VSC meet. Thinking about Randy flying his F-105 will, i'm sure, assuage any pain and anxiety I'll be experiencing in "the chair."

Thank you Randy for bringing this model to life once again. Can't tell you how much it means to me. I was thinking about building anther Thud myself, but now that idea is mute; you have produced the quintessential version of the design, and there is no way I could top that.

Bob
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on February 24, 2020, 02:21:46 PM
Gee, Bob.  <blush>
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on March 02, 2020, 01:32:26 PM
OK, final pics. It's current on it's way to Tucson.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on March 02, 2020, 06:48:02 PM
Get me a towel; I'm drooling! Oh how I wish I could be in Tucson when you unveil this beauty...

Good providence with this one, Randy; you deserve it.

In awe - Bob
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on March 02, 2020, 08:20:47 PM

 So it'll be a maiden flight in Tucson? The "Thud" really looks great, best of luck with it.  y1
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on March 03, 2020, 01:42:30 PM
Yea, we'll see. Might be good. And, might not.  ;D
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 03, 2020, 02:41:33 PM
It is going to be fun to learn to land 15 degrees nose up.  Ever consider adding a drag chute?  That would be beyond cool especially if you didn't let the judges know before hand!

You going to use gloss clear or satin?  I have personally never seen a military plane other than the Thunderbirds in gloss.

This is a super cool plane.  I sincerely hope it flies as good as it looks.

Ken
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: John Leidle on March 03, 2020, 09:51:08 PM
   Not bad Randy, not bad at all.  Terrific effort .
              John L.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on March 04, 2020, 04:14:09 PM
Ken,

It was a dope finish with polyurethane clear top coat. Sort of buffed. I didn't have time to finish the buffing. Oh well.

It should present well in the air. Based on weight, power and absolutely the smoothest control system I've even managed to build and a wicked cool design, it should be fun to fly.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Will Hinton on March 16, 2020, 08:40:22 PM
Randy, you have a masterpiece there.  Wow is the best description I can give for it.  Not just well done, but exceptionally well done. H^^ H^^
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on March 18, 2020, 01:00:22 PM
As some of you might have heard, the new plane is no more. Combination of bad conditions and bad decision making. Plane was caught in turbulence and got swatted into the ground. I knew I should have bailed on the clover. Pretty much a total.

Shame, that.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Dave Hull on March 18, 2020, 01:23:07 PM
RP,

Very sorry to hear that. It was a beauty! Did you get more than the one flight?

My guys said it never showed for appearance judging, so I wondered....

The Divot
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on March 18, 2020, 01:28:27 PM
Dave,

That's the worst part. I got 5 flights on it and it flew really well. Nice, flat bottoms and did rounds right off the board. Nice flying plane.
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 18, 2020, 04:36:57 PM
Dave,

That's the worst part. I got 5 flights on it and it flew really well. Nice, flat bottoms and did rounds right off the board. Nice flying plane.
Nothing can take away the pain of losing a new ship.  The warm fuzzies that come from a plane that flies right off of the bench keep reminding you of what could have been.  Most planes can be made to do corners pretty soon out of the blocks but the rounds tell it all.  We burried a lot of Thuds in Thailand.  Maybe it just thought it was supposed to... ''

Build another one but this time paint it as a Weasel LL~ 
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Air Ministry . on March 18, 2020, 06:35:09 PM
THAT would @#$% you off .
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: wwwarbird on March 18, 2020, 08:15:03 PM

 I caught a vague comment somewhere the other day that didn't sound good, sorry to hear my initial hunch was true, damn.

 Well, at least you're bench is clear for the next build. I vote for another Thud, heck, the plans are probably still taped to the wall!
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on March 19, 2020, 11:07:00 AM
Wayne,

I'm finishing a partially built Don Shultz Avenger for classic. That will likely be my VSC plane next year.

Then I have some ideas.....
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on March 19, 2020, 01:20:54 PM
Randy:

Words just cannot convey how bad I feel for your loss. It was a gorgeous ship (as usual for you...), and from your report, it flew pretty much "off the board." I had better fortune with mine as it lasted for a couple of years until I flew it at a contest in some very heavy winds. The up line broke during a pullout.

Thank you for choosing one of my designs to build; that was a high honor for me. To have someone of your building and finishing caliber replicate my Thud was a thrill.

Hope this doesn't dampen your enthusiasm.

Later - Bob Hunt   
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on March 20, 2020, 11:31:16 AM
Naw, I've recovered. Already planning the next one.

Just to prove it did fly. My sister-in-law took the pictures
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on March 20, 2020, 11:51:43 AM
Randy:

Again, it was just beautiful! Glad to hear that it didn't dampen your resolve to build. You're a better man than me Gunga Din...

Bob
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Air Ministry . on March 20, 2020, 07:49:50 PM
Great to see your not gunna let it beat ya .

All the hopes & dreams tied up in it , quite a hurdle to clear to get up & get on with it, again .

Wonder if anyone'd insure these things , Hours at a comercial rate & materials involved . A pretty penny or two there .

For petes sake , with that electricary , get it out and FLY IT before all the effort in the ' finishing ' .Used electrons wash off .

Did you have the Drop Tanks bolt on , or fixed . ? . Now we can all stop worrying for you .  ;D
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 20, 2020, 10:32:11 PM
For petes sake , with that electricary , get it out and FLY IT before all the effort in the ' finishing ' .Used electrons wash off.
Wouldn't have made a difference.  I always fly before I finish but getting pancaked on the clover is just a part of PA.  It happens to all of us.

Beautiful plane - Ken
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on March 21, 2020, 05:51:37 AM
Wouldn't have made a difference.  I always fly before I finish but getting pancaked on the clover is just a part of PA.  It happens to all of us.

Beautiful plane - Ken

Perhaps just one more reason to consider the new rules proposal to alter the entry point of the Clover. Many are against the proposal because they don't want to change the long standing pattern for some nostalgic reason. Not all change is bad...

Later - Bob

PS: Just one more time, Randy, a magnificent effort on your part.   
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 21, 2020, 09:48:37 AM
Perhaps just one more reason to consider the new rules proposal to alter the entry point of the Clover. Many are against the proposal because they don't want to change the long standing pattern for some nostalgic reason. Not all change is bad...

Later - Bob

PS: Just one more time, Randy, a magnificent effort on your part.   
Couldn't agree more.  I have only had a handful of planes that could make that turn from 42 in bad air and in Texas that is about all we have.  Thermal downdrafts have spelled the end many a plane here, mine included.  Personally I like the clover flown from 45 better but I also respect the opinion of those that don't.

Ken
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on March 21, 2020, 11:05:27 AM
Hi Ken:

The proposal we have to look at is to alter the entry point to level flight at the center of the maneuver. In other words the first thing is to make an inside turn of 90 degrees and go straight up to the point of the first inside loop, and then fly the maneuver as before from that point. That eliminates the dreaded turn back into the wind at the start of the maneuver as we do it now. In very heavy wind it is often difficult for some to climb to the 42/45 degree altitude and hold that until the start of the maneuver. Will the new proposal alleviate some of that? Don't know until I go out and fly it! But, I have an open mind to make the change if it is indeed better/safer.

Later - Bob
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 21, 2020, 01:31:28 PM
Hi Ken:

The proposal we have to look at is to alter the entry point to level flight at the center of the maneuver. In other words the first thing is to make an inside turn of 90 degrees and go straight up to the point of the first inside loop, and then fly the maneuver as before from that point. Tat eliminates the dreaded turn back into the wind at the start of the maneuver as we do it now. In very heavy wind it is often difficult for some to climb to the 42/45 degree altitude and hold that until the start of the maneuver. Will the new proposal alleviate some of that? Don't know until I go out and fly it! But, I have an open mind to make the chane if it is indeed better/safer.

Later - Bob
I went out and flew some that way when it first surfaced last year.  After a few tries to defeat the muscle memory I was able to do it without much effort.  It is both easier to fly and in my opinion safer but that is just me.  One thing that I did notice was that the momentum loss that you get from having to hold the 42 was gone and it carried through the whole maneuver which actually makes that last leaf less dangerous.  I would still move the center to 45 to make the whole thing easier to position.  One thing I have noticed is that a lot of us already do it at 45 and others over compensate and are down around 40.  I tend to do both depending on the air.

Ken
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Bob Hunt on March 22, 2020, 10:03:49 AM
Okay, perhaps we need to cease hijacking this thread, and I'm as guilty of that as anyone else here; perhaps more. The loss of Randy's F-105 hit me hard. It was, after all, my first published design, and I have a rather paternal instinct about it. The fact that it was lost in the Clover made me think - and post - about the new rules proposal concerning the entry point of that maneuver.

I do have a lot of additional thoughts about that proposal; and I'm not indicating that I'm totally in favor of it. Let's move this discussion to the rules section of this forum, and let Randy's unbelievably gorgeous Thunderchief have this thread all to itself; it deserves it, Sorry, Randy, for letting - and helping - it drift away from that.

Later - Bob Hunt   
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Ken Culbertson on March 22, 2020, 10:30:09 AM
Okay, perhaps we need to cease hijacking this thread, and I'm as guilty of that as anyone else here; perhaps more. The loss of Randy's F-105 hit me hard. It was, after all, my first published design, and I have a rather paternal instinct about it. The fact that it was lost in the Clover made me think - and post - about the new rules proposal concerning the entry point of that maneuver.

I do have a lot of additional thoughts about that proposal; and I'm not indicating that I'm totally in favor of it. Let's move this discussion to the rules section of this forum, and let Randy's unbelievably gorgeous Thunderchief have this thread all to itself; it deserves it, Sorry, Randy, for letting - and helping - it drift away from that.

Later - Bob Hunt   
y1
Title: Re: Building a new Super 70s plane
Post by: Randy Powell on March 23, 2020, 10:19:03 AM
Wouldn't have mattered how I entered. Just bad luck. I was doing the second loop and the wind changed direction and gusted. Heavily. I hit the turbulence and the plane was swatted into the ground. I knew I should have bailed out when I had it free flight in the overhead 8s. The conditioned sucked and I should have just bailed out. Such is life.