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Author Topic: Worn engines  (Read 961 times)

Offline Gary Anderson

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Worn engines
« on: January 11, 2008, 11:36:46 PM »
Hi Randy, when can you tell when your engine is worn out? Do they lose rpm's? If you hook your motor up to a scale, can you check pull against other engine? Will they start using more fuel at the same rpm's? Will they go lean and stay lean? I guess they could get air leaks around bearing gaskets, lose compression. I have some engine that are old and seem to run about the same as the rest. The castor oil still has a nice oil look, not burned or discolored. Using the same prop, fuel, tank and set at same rpm's, really close to the same pull on the fish scale. I believe I don't need her to be re-ringed. The engine I'm speaking about is my enya 60, 7032. I believe she is over twenty years old, I have a brand new enya 60, 7032 that I'm comparing her against. She's not as pretty looking as my new one but as long as she is okay, don't want to replace her. Just another dump question, I wanted to send her to Frank to be checked out but Frank is a very busy person. I love all the great work he's done for me. All my Merco just purr his name, after Franks rework on them, one flip and they just talk big time. Have a great day, Gary
Gary Anderson

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Worn engines
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2008, 07:06:20 AM »
HI Gary

If the ENYA still has good compression, and there are no bearing noises, I would suggest just keep running it. Engines don not necessarily go lean when they wear out. I have seen many people use wornout engines and still get good runs, The power will most alway be less after they wear .

Randy

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Worn engines
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2008, 12:25:42 PM »
HI Gary

If the ENYA still has good compression, and there are no bearing noises, I would suggest just keep running it. Engines don not necessarily go lean when they wear out. I have seen many people use wornout engines and still get good runs, The power will most alway be less after they wear .

      One thing I have noticed was that when the engine went over the hill, the fuel consumption went up dramatically. That was always the indicator on ST46s, and I noticed the same with the VF (after about 15 years!). On the VF, I ran 4 1/2 ounces for the first 10 years, and eventually it crept up to 4 3/4. Then, during the 98 NATs (about 20 flight total) I went from 4 3/4 to almost 5 1/4 in the space of a few days, and also couldn't get the lap times down to normal. On Top 20 day I flew one flight at 5.95 laps and the second at 6.05 laps, engine almost pegged out lean. Good thing the air was smooth, but it still worked reasonably well. It ran reliably, but no power.

    Got home, same thing, switched to a fresh engine, 4 1/2 ounces, 5.4 laps, in a 4-stroke.

   No power+high fuel consumption = worn out.

    Brett

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Worn engines
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2008, 12:43:46 PM »
Some engine will use more fuel at the end of their life... but not all ...many engines burn more fuel when they are new and burn less as they wear out. Some engines  leak fuel badly when they wear out..others do Not. it is hard to put down a perfect exact never changing set of rules  for telling if an engine is worn out or not.  Not all engines behave the same.
Then you also get into the part where an engine is still good in the cool months, but very marginal when it is hot...exact same engine no differance...diagnosing an engine over the phone line or internet is not exact and sometimes impossible to do.
However if it has very low or no compression it's a pretty safe bet its worn too much and time for a rebuild

Randy

Offline Gordon Tarbell

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Re: Worn engines
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2008, 12:27:11 PM »
Going on what Brett said about his VF engines living quite a few years.  Can I reason that a NIB VF46 can still be a great choice for the likes of a drednaught or due to the lack of replacement parts should be shelved(or traded off) for the likes of a larger PA type on a muffler?
Gordon Tarbell AMA 15019

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Worn engines
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2008, 12:41:47 PM »
Going on what Brett said about his VF engines living quite a few years.  Can I reason that a NIB VF46 can still be a great choice for the likes of a drednaught or due to the lack of replacement parts should be shelved(or traded off) for the likes of a larger PA type on a muffler?

Hi Gordon

Either, your choice, The good thing is if you build an airplane for the engine and you need a replacement, the PA 40 , 51, 61, 65  will drop in same lenght  same motor mount holes, The only difference is a small change in the  needle  location. so your not stuck if something happens.
The PA s  will run very well on either  muffler or  pipe, the VF does run better on s pipe.

Randy

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Worn engines
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2008, 12:44:50 PM »
This is not a counter to the above gents that know more than I ever will about engines, but "we" found that we could add some castor oil to our fuel to get older engines, mainly McCoy redheads, to run better when they were usually well worn. Not always, but hey, what did we know except it worked, for a while. #^ <= H^^The oil of course helped form a seal between the piston and cyl.


yes the thicker mixture helps seal, and helps the compression of the worn engine

Randy

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Worn engines
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2008, 02:54:53 PM »
Going on what Brett said about his VF engines living quite a few years.  Can I reason that a NIB VF46 can still be a great choice for the likes of a drednaught or due to the lack of replacement parts should be shelved(or traded off) for the likes of a larger PA type on a muffler?

      Of course, it's not really a matter of one replacing the other, if you are planning on running a muffler. A few people have tried the VF with a muffler with very mixed results.  I would suggest if you are not going to run it on a pipe, that you would be much better off with the more-appropriately-timed PAs.


 For a VF,  I certainly wouldn't be overly concerned about spares.  The one item that is limited-life is the rear bearing. That used to be a problem since they were an odd-ball size, but Boca had them manufactured and they are easily available. Otherwise, for anything but the very demanding users, I can pretty well guarantee that you will not wear it out in normal use. Paul Walker and I have both managed to wear out exactly one 40 each, over the period from 1988-1998. That's 10 years of hard high-level competition use. If it takes that to wear one out, then even heavy sport/stunt users or anything but the most die-hard competitors will not wear it out, ever. I guarantee that most people have fewer flights in their entire lives than either Paul or I got in those 10 years.
 
      But I switched to modern alternatives for the ability to support them as a competitor. Something goes wrong with a PA, I can call Randy that afternoon and have it fixed in short order. If you want mods, you can go so someone who actually knows what they are doing. That allowed me to run almost my entire NATs career with only one motor at a time - no backups. It's just not a concern that, say, the crank break or the ring goes over the hill between flights. The sort of thing that used to happen *all the time* with Foxes and ST's. The PA engines are, if anything, even more bulletproof than the VF, it's not going to wear out in normal usage.

   
     Brett


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