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Author Topic: Who does and did do Engine modifications?  (Read 1475 times)

Offline Fredvon4

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Who does and did do Engine modifications?
« on: April 30, 2016, 11:56:47 AM »
Playing with model airplanes in the late 50s~mid 70s I was totally oblivious to the full scope of the hobby, history, and much to do with small engines in model cars, boats, and airplanes

Since returning I have been a sponge (thanks to the internet) seeking information and as we know one thing of interest may lead to research on it and may take several side excursions

I am more a motor head than a good model builder or pilot and have always been fascinated with model engines

As I returned it became apparent that there were some fellows who would "hop up", "modify", "fix", their own engines and there were others who did this for a price to others

That said, many times there are references by some one on these sites discussing a particular engines as a (Example) L&J....xxx .35

I, and I assume many younger than me retreads, don't know who Clarence Lee was or what he did as well as any other referenced engine specially modified by some one.

I know Doug Galbreath and have had some of his work
I got Marin Denny Fox combat engines I know he reworked....perhaps he did this for others...don't know
I know about the Tindal double bubble head

I have a few Nelson combat .36s
No real clue who Wylie Willy is/was and what he did

Bottom line is I would like to know who all the guys are or were that modified engines for others, what they were doing, why, and how.

Does any one do this now?

I just got a Lew Woolard Fox 35 stunt and it took better part of a year to get the engine to him and back to me modified...but truth is I have no idea who he is, what he did

And yes Virginia, I have searched six ways to Sunday on all the major sites trying to not ask this seemingly stupid question

"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV

Online Brett Buck

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Re: Who does and did do Engine modifications?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2016, 02:56:34 PM »

As I returned it became apparent that there were some fellows who would "hop up", "modify", "fix", their own engines and there were others who did this for a price to others

    And it is one of the sadder aspects of modern stunt. For the most part, with a few exceptions, the results are disappointing.

    It started in earnest in the late 70's when people were trying to make various RC schneurle engine work for stunt. The reason was that these engine, when they worked, provided astronomically better performance. Unfortunately the techniques of the day were not up to the tasks, and the result was extreme detuning until they worked no better than the existing engines (ST46 and later 60). The necessary breakthrough was discovery of the use of a tuned pipe as a regulator instead of a power booster, in about 1986, and since about 1988, modified schneurle engines with tuned pipe have utterly and completely dominated the event in the US. It's simple, it's well-understood with volumes of precise information on exactly how to make it work, and is a solved problem. The result is that far more people than ever have managed to become competitive because getting an adequate engine run, time after time, is a turn-key system.

     The single best stunt engine ever produced by a major manufacturer, regardless of era, is a bone-stock OS-40VF with a pipe. Period. If someone tells you otherwise, they don't know what they are talking about.

   Unfortunately, again, this development was missed or intentionally fought, and people are *still* detuning engines to run on a muffler with a 4-2 break at low revs. A few people do it reliably with good craftsmanship and repeatability, and although it provides a tremendously less effective system than a conventional piped system, it will work as well as it did in 1975.

   While the techniques to accomplish this are now well-known, this has encouraged a vast army of amateur engine experts who will do this for people, variously referred to as the "Head Gasket Patrol", "Hack patrol", "local engine experts", etc. Typically, the goal appears to make an otherwise good engine (like the 46LA) into the most gutless 4-2 break engine that technology will permit.

   In the regular competition world, the discontinuation of the 40/46VF, OPS 40SPA, and other early tuned pipe engines, other semi-custom manufacturers arose. Randy Smith was the first, collaborating with Henry Nelson of T/R fame. These are another cut above the consumer OS 40VF and others, with more flexibility and even more durable, and as the size went from 40 to 51 to 61 to 75 (after the FAI permitted them) much more effective power, permitting a very flexible system that you can make run the way you want. This was followed by the RO-Jett, manufactured largely by Nelson competitor Dub Jett and developed by Richard Oliver. This one provided the sort of run of a 40/46VF with much more effective power.

    There were other purported "revolutions" along the way, but most of them were either backwards steps (modified ST60s running like 1975 again) or no net improvement (4-strokes, which run well if you run them exactly the way they have to be run, but have nearly zero flexibility) and ST60 tribute engines with 20 years of sensible development (Discovery Retro and similar).

  There are also various small RC engines like the 25LA and similar, that are much superior substitutes for old "35-sized" airplanes. The Head Gasket Patrol exists largely to try to lower the performance of various schneurle 40s (40FP) to what is required by old Fox 35-sized airplane (like the Twister, etc). The correct solution is a dead-stock engine that is about half the size, and leave it alone.

    Brett

Offline Fredvon4

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Re: Who does and did do Engine modifications?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2016, 09:00:15 AM »
Thanks Ty and Brett for the insight

I guess I am poor at posing questions

L&J or GMA as well as other short hand, perhaps well know from those who have been at this their whole life, but many times the assumption is VERY body must know all these guys or team of guys

Example, in context just stating " I have a GMA, L&J, or Silver Fox engine xxx and it is doing xxx" is meaningless to many of us retreads. The writer assumes every body already knows what a particular engine from one of these guys has been modified to now perform like or in some cases NOT perform like

Bret is of course focused on stunt at a high level and I appreciate and do not disagree with all I have read from him on this subject here and on other forums

Of course Control line has a wide variety of disciplines, my past being combat one would think I should know many of the different folks who modified ST G21 .35s, Johnson CS .35, and other early engines used for FF, Speed, or Combat... I know a little but still a large gap in my experience and knowledge

Some of my curiosity has a practical need. As I acquire some of these older engines many times a e-bay engine might be listed as highly modified by xxx.

I don't know who xxx is and what the mods were and if they made the engine ONLY really usable for one discipline like carrier

Example: Perhaps the engine is so modified that properly run with the intended compression, prop, and fuel it is only good for ten~twenty full power flights and must be rebuilt

The other sub curiosity is guys like Marvin Denny or Riley Wooten who had their "tricks" for their engines they did them selves

Many of these engines still exist ( I have several of Marvin's) but I would like to know their "secret recipe"
"A good scare teaches more than good advice"

Fred von Gortler IV


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