Author Topic: Where are you buying fuel today? (Read 2801 times)

Tim Wescott · « **on:** October 11, 2010, 12:10:28 PM »

The LHS carries really nice fuel for RC use, but not really for control line.

I could buy their fuel and augment it with castor oil (engine is an OS Max 25S, possibly to be replaced by something newer). Web searches haven't really coughed up anything promising specifically for CL stunt. I've heard bad news about Sig's ability to deliver, and I can't even find "fuel" on their web site.

So: where to buy?

For those of you in the PDX area: do any of the local shops carry anything good? Tammies? Interstate?

Howard Rush · « **Reply #1 on:** October 11, 2010, 04:42:59 PM »

Sig still makes fuel. I saw their fuel shop this summer.

Sig and McMaster-Carr are good sources of castor oil. Sig's is cheaper. Synthetic is a little harder to find. I use Ucon LB-625. The distributor is here in town, but min. quantity is about 50 gallons. Klotz works, but I think it may come in different varieties now, and I don't know which one to specify. Nitro comes from drag racers. You can usually find one nearby with some extra nitro. Get a digital scale and a volumetric flask to check its density. Assume any diluant to be methanol. Methanol comes from sprint car or hydroplane racers. I get mine in Burlington, north of here on I-5. Use the digital scale and volumetric flask to make sure it's dry.

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #2 on:** October 11, 2010, 06:31:24 PM »

Howard, will it work to buy a quart of high test car fuel for your nitro source? Mix that with the methanol and castor?

Leester · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2010, 06:37:05 PM »

Brodak sells quarts of fuel in different strengths and shipping is 9.00 per order, no hazmat on quarts.

dennis lipsett · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2010, 07:02:17 PM »

Horizon Hobbies sells Powermaster fuel. If your local hobby shop buys from them they can get you fuel. Usually you have to buy a case of 6 gallons but if you have to, split the cost with another flyer and your good to go.
dennis

Steve Hines · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2010, 09:47:52 PM »

Every year I go to Toledo and pick-up nitrol, and klotz. I get my caster for fox,best price. Looks like this would be a long drive for you. You might call Klotz and ask If they would do a blend of nitrol and oil for you this would not have to be shipped hazmat. I was mixing fuel for under 11$ a gallon +300 miles round trip. at 10/20/70, did not check price of 5/24/71 and aero 1 should have been around the same. You should be able to get methonal some where by you. Was thinking of making a pre mix and selling it as just add methonal, but everyone wanted there own blend. I talk to to fox last year about that and they were going to look into it, there were be no hazmat. The shipping is what kills you.

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #6 on:** October 12, 2010, 10:01:14 AM »

Guys,
Not exactly an answer to the question, but maybe an opportunity to communicate details of something we are working on.

We are working with Morgan Fuels to develop blends appropriate for our use. The first blend we are trying is 10% nitro, 22% oil (50/50 castor/syn.), measured and mixed by volume. There is also a blend with high castor content for the engines that require it.

Fred Lewis of Morgan, kindly provided this blend for our contest last weekend. We gave a quart of it to each flier, for each class he entered. At least one flier flew official flights with it, with no noticable difference between the test fuel and the previously used 10/22 of another brand.

Fred and Morgan seem willing to invest the time and money to provide the fuel blends that we need for CL aerobatic flying. The Central Alabama Stunt Squadron is working with Mr. Lewis to help develop the fuels we need.

If you have questions, I will be glad to share what we know. Please feel free to contact me off forum for additional information.

Jim

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #7 on:** October 12, 2010, 10:03:12 AM »

Quote from: dennis lipsett on October 11, 2010, 07:02:17 PM

Horizon Hobbies sells Powermaster fuel.

Maybe I'm stupid (it took me several tries to find fuel on Sig's web site), but I couldn't find it on the Horizon Hobby web site. Do you have a part number or something that might lead me straight to it?

Howard Rush · « **Reply #8 on:** October 12, 2010, 01:30:56 PM »

Quote from: Russell Shaffer on October 11, 2010, 06:31:24 PM

Howard, will it work to buy a quart of high test car fuel for your nitro source? Mix that with the methanol and castor?

I don't know. Do you know what's in it?

Randy Powell · « **Reply #9 on:** October 13, 2010, 10:12:07 AM »

I was using Powermaster and the club would order it by the case. But I'm now back buying Wildcat fuel at the local LHS. It's 10/18 all synthetic but a bit of castor in the that works real well. I add enough castor to bring it up to about 22 percent oil. Good quality fuel.

Tim Wescott · « **Reply #10 on:** October 13, 2010, 10:38:27 AM »

Quote from: Randy Powell on October 13, 2010, 10:12:07 AM

I was using Powermaster and the club would order it by the case. But I'm now back buying Wildcat fuel at the local LHS. It's 10/18 all synthetic but a bit of castor in the that works real well. I add enough castor to bring it up to about 22 percent oil. Good quality fuel.

I'm kind of vacillating between doing just that and mixing my own, at this point. On the one hand, I can save some $$ mixing my own. On the other hand, I'm hand-making all sorts of bits for the planes right now, and I'm questioning whether I really want to end up with even more tools cluttering up the place.

My LHS has Wildcat, and if I'm not mistaken they have castor, too.

Paul Smith · « **Reply #11 on:** October 13, 2010, 10:44:59 AM »

Toledo RC Show, early April.

Direct from Randy Ritch's trailer to your POV. Order in advance, he's have it in 4-gallon boxes with your name on them. If it's not on the menu axe.

I expect you can work a similar deal at other major modeling expos. I have to drive a 120-mile round trip once a year.

Steve Schlesser · « **Reply #12 on:** October 13, 2010, 01:22:34 PM »

Wild cat fuel makes JET A which is 10% nitro and 23% oil (50/50)

Russell Shaffer · « **Reply #13 on:** October 13, 2010, 01:52:09 PM »

Quote from: Howard Rush on October 12, 2010, 01:30:56 PM

I don't know. Do you know what's in it?

I have no idea but it does work in glow engines. I expect very low lube but the rest of the mix I don't have a clue.

Mike Greb · « **Reply #14 on:** October 13, 2010, 04:33:42 PM »

Lately I have been running Cool Power 10% nitro in my Ro-Jett 65 and 76.

Steve Helmick · « **Reply #15 on:** October 13, 2010, 06:43:07 PM »

I recently looked at the fuel descriptions in the Tower Hobby cattledog (sic). Some tell the oil content, but I'd probably ask or assume that the percentages are calculated by weight, not volume. You can also buy straight Klotz, Klotz with castor included, and Klotz brand Castor oil (Benol) from Tower.

Some locals tried 10/18 Powermaster and/or Wildcat, and were happy with it for awhile, but eventually, their engines seemed to not like it so well. Adding some castor oil made their engines happy again. My guess is that once the varnish was gone, the oil wasn't enough, but that's just a guess. No, these were not Fox .35's.

I'm pretty close to ready to mix my own, if I have to. I need to get the methanol yet, but have the rest on hand.
Still have over a case of 10/22, maybe 8 gallons total. Lots of empty cans around, and I threw out a bunch a few months ago. That Wildcat 10/23 "Jet A" is a valid replacement for 10/22 Powermaster, and a case isn't probably going to be a problem to order via the LHS. It might be 4 gallons, or 6 gallons...about right. "Gotta have spares."

Steve

W.D. Roland · « **Reply #16 on:** October 13, 2010, 08:26:56 PM »

Most racing methanol has a top end lubricant added to it.

This lubricant will make the fuel fail the legality test in Go kart racing(Briggs)
The stuff for karts is pure.

Have no clue what the lubricant is or how it would do with other oils.

dennis lipsett · « **Reply #17 on:** October 13, 2010, 08:48:48 PM »

The company that bought out Powermaster posted a notice that they had shipped a few thousand gallons to Horizon Hobbies. They also stated that even if the shop that you buy from wasn't a Horizon dealer they could obtain this fuel. I'm only repeating what i had read.
I also am puzzled that they hadent added it to their listing. My LHS always got my Powermaster fuel from Horizon.
Dennis

Bill Adair · « **Reply #18 on:** October 14, 2010, 12:29:53 AM »

Hi Tim,

I live in Beaverton, and Tammies carries mostly Morgan fuel now, with a few outrageously priced half pints of Norvel fuel on the shelf. They did carry Powermaster before it changed hands, but recently loaded up on Morgan fuel to the exclusion of everything else.

Morgan fuel is OK if you add enough Castor oil, but never run it in your OS25S unless you add lots of Castor.

Ted at Interstate Hobbies was going to order Sig fuel for me, but could not meet the minimum order. He does have some Powermaster fuel left, but I'm not sure what blends. He stocks controline kits and engines, at very reasonable prices, so check it out.

I have a few pints of Sig Champion fuel on hand that I ordered from Sam's Stuff and Hobbies, and pints have no Hazmat fee so it was very reasonable.

My Club (NW Fireballs) flys at North Delta Park, and us half A enthusiasts meet on Tuesday, and Thursday to fly our little stuff off a folding table, or grass. Come out and visit anytime, but don't expect to find us old farts there too early in the morning.

We often combine fuel orders with other club members, and can get a case or two of good C/L fuel for your engine. I use Sig 10% Nitro, with 25% Castor fuel, which would be perfect for your engine. I'll need another gallon soon, so check in if you want to get in on the order. Price is about $25 per gallon delivered, which is pretty reasonable these days.

Another source is Eugene Hobbies. They stock Sig fuel at about the same price as Sam's, and we have a contact in Eugene who comes to Portland often enough to deliver fuel at his cost.

Bill

Jim Thomerson · « **Reply #19 on:** October 14, 2010, 02:02:24 PM »

I drove from Austin, TX, to St. Louis, MO, and bought a case of Sig Champion fuel.

dennis lipsett · « **Reply #20 on:** October 14, 2010, 05:10:54 PM »

Quote from: Jim Thomerson on October 14, 2010, 02:02:24 PM

I drove from Austin, TX, to St. Louis, MO, and bought a case of Sig Champion fuel.

Jim,
That has to be one of the most expensive cases of fuel ever bought.
Dennis

Terrence Durrill · « **Reply #21 on:** October 16, 2010, 01:37:12 PM »

What ever happened to Red Max? They would custom blend any mix you wanted....TDurrill

Brian Massey · « **Reply #22 on:** October 29, 2010, 06:18:19 PM »

Quote from: Tim Wescott on October 12, 2010, 10:03:12 AM

Maybe I'm stupid (it took me several tries to find fuel on Sig's web site), but I couldn't find it on the Horizon Hobby web site. Do you have a part number or something that might lead me straight to it?

I just ordered a gallon of Sig castor and Klotz Synthetic from Sams (http://sshobbies.com/). It's not on their website, just email them and ask.

Good service from them too.

Brian

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #23 on:** October 30, 2010, 07:23:46 AM »

Since our contest in Oct., I have received a further reports on the Morgan 10/22 CL fuel. All reports so far are very positive.

I will be purchasing Morgan's Fox 35 blend for my use in my Fox .35 and, maybe, in my .59......

Cheers,
Jim

Brian Massey · « **Reply #24 on:** October 30, 2010, 09:49:22 AM »

I just acquired about 100 ounces of 100% nitro, and am looking forward to mixing some of my own fuel. But now I'm curious about "0%" nitro fuel. I'll be mixing for a B40 and an LA46. Both seem to run fine on 10/22, but with the difficulty of buying nitro in California, I'd like to give 0% a try. I'm planning on mixing 78% Methanol, 11% castor and 11% Klotz. I'll mix by volume, not weight.

Any thoughts/ideas/experiences?

Thanks,

Brian

RandySmith · « **Reply #25 on:** October 30, 2010, 12:27:45 PM »

Quote from: Jim Oliver on October 30, 2010, 07:23:46 AM

Since our contet in Oct., I have received a further reports on the Morgan 10/22 CL fuel. All reports so far are very positive.

I will be purchasing Morgan's Fox 35 blend for my use in my Fox .35 and, maybe, in my .59......

Cheers,
Jim

MAYBE a good idea Jim, to do a boil down test on the fuel, to make sure it is 22 or 28% oil by volume, it is a simple test to do and does not lie
I had a ton of trouble with Morgan earlier about this...back when I tried to get them to make stunt fuel for CL flying

A boil down test is simple, I used a 100 ml beaker outside on a hot plate, poured in 100 ml fuel, boiled it off with the beaker set in a shallow pan of boiling water
, results were 14.7 ml left.This is the oil only left over, This equals 14.7% oil content.., the nitro and alcohol evaporate, i was told I may have boiled off some of the oil too... I had to laugh, oil boiling at 212 is not a good thing.

You could do the same thing just by leaving it in the beaker outside and waiting a long time for it to evaporate, stirring occasionally

Or really you can buy the fuel measured by weight..if you want to do the caculations and order something like 25% oil or 32% oil by weight, as long as you really know what is in it, that is what is important.
The fuel company had no idea that 14.7 % is not good for a FOX 35, they told me there oil package was excellent and would do a great job of lubricating a FOX 35?

?

Regards
Randy

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #26 on:** October 30, 2010, 02:14:09 PM »

Randy,
Thanks for the hint. I specified "by volume" and the label says "by volume" but I know that doesn't make it so.

I think Mr. Fred Lewis and Morgan Fuels are looking to replace some of the business lost to electrics by selling CL fuels. They know, for that to work, they have to mix what we want; so, I'm hopeful they will do that.

BTW, the decals came today. Thanks.

Cheers,
Jim

Jim Oliver · « **Reply #27 on:** October 30, 2010, 05:10:16 PM »

"The fuel company had no idea that 14.7 % is not good for a FOX 35, they told me there oil package was excellent and would do a great job of lubricating a FOX 35?

?"

Regards
Randy

Maybe great for the guys selling Fox .35s.........

Scott B. Riese · « **Reply #28 on:** October 31, 2010, 09:55:50 PM »

Quote from: Bill Adair on October 14, 2010, 12:29:53 AM

Hi Tim,

I live in Beaverton, and Tammies carries mostly Morgan fuel now, with a few outrageously priced half pints of Norvel fuel on the shelf. They did carry Powermaster before it changed hands, but recently loaded up on Morgan fuel to the exclusion of everything else.

Morgan fuel is OK if you add enough Castor oil, but never run it in your OS25S unless you add lots of Castor.

Ted at Interstate Hobbies was going to order Sig fuel for me, but could not meet the minimum order. He does have some Powermaster fuel left, but I'm not sure what blends. He stocks controline kits and engines, at very reasonable prices, so check it out.

I have a few pints of Sig Champion fuel on hand that I ordered from Sam's Stuff and Hobbies, and pints have no Hazmat fee so it was very reasonable.

My Club (NW Fireballs) flys at North Delta Park, and us half A enthusiasts meet on Tuesday, and Thursday to fly our little stuff off a folding table, or grass. Come out and visit anytime, but don't expect to find us old farts there too early in the morning.

We often combine fuel orders with other club members, and can get a case or two of good C/L fuel for your engine. I use Sig 10% Nitro, with 25% Castor fuel, which would be perfect for your engine. I'll need another gallon soon, so check in if you want to get in on the order. Price is about $25 per gallon delivered, which is pretty reasonable these days.

Another source is Eugene Hobbies. They stock Sig fuel at about the same price as Sam's, and we have a contact in Eugene who comes to Portland often enough to deliver fuel at his cost.

Bill

BILL Just picked up 30 Gallons of Powermaster 10-18 from Seattle. $20 Per Gallon. Let me know. As It will be delivered Mid November

Scott

Bill Adair · « **Reply #29 on:** October 31, 2010, 10:26:51 PM »

Hi Scott,

I'll check my stash of fuel as soon we get home, but think I still have an unopened gallon of 10-18.

See you next week.

Bill

Dennis Moritz · « **Reply #30 on:** November 01, 2010, 07:20:44 AM »

We get Powermaster from Bob Krug. He's a distributor in North Jersey, Eastern PA, NYC. His number is in Control Line World. The new Powermaster is equivalent to the old, far as our club can tell. Excellent brew. I saw the new ownership of Powermaster drop ship the fuel to Bob at the NATs. I guess you can check with them to find a local distributor.

Pinecone · « **Reply #31 on:** November 01, 2010, 11:45:40 AM »

Klotz sells directly from their website. You want Klotz Original Techniplate and Benol (castor).

If all you can get is Morgen, look at the Omega line, specifically their 4 stroke fuel. It is 50/50 castor/synthetic oil. 17% total oil. I know Randy's issue, but I boiled down some Morgan Cool Power 30% heli fuel and it worked out to be the 22% oil as advertised. I keep meaning to do some Omega fuel that I have.