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Author Topic: When is it too big  (Read 1478 times)

Offline Bob Reeves

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When is it too big
« on: May 19, 2006, 05:37:51 AM »
What are the symptoms of a venturi that is too big?

Offline captcurt

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Re: When is it too big
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2006, 06:23:19 AM »
If you have to use an air compressor to start your engine, the venturi might be too large!!

Seriously, I'm sure the engine guys will comment on this but if it gets too large, starting will be difficult because it will not draw fuel well.  The smaller the venturi, the better the fuel suction--to a first approximation,

It will get inconsistent in running, and needling will be difficult.  Fuel consumption will become usually so high that your tank wont be large enough.

FWIW

Curt

Offline Stan Tyler

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Re: When is it too big
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2006, 09:39:17 AM »
Would a too large of venturi cause sudden shut offs?
No burps, no sputters, just sudden silence some where in the pattern that you don't want to hear that.

Still with fuel in the tank, maybe half a tank full.
Known good tank. New fuel lines and new Master Airscrew filter.

Thanks,
Stan
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Offline captcurt

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Re: When is it too big
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2006, 10:37:29 AM »
Hi Stan:

If all else is normal, I would say not likely--but I would look at other stuff to be sure.  Plug or loose backplate--could do that.

Need more info tho.  Engine, plug, fuel,  did it ever work right?

Curt

Offline RandySmith

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Re: When is it too big
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2006, 11:34:26 AM »
What are the symptoms of a venturi that is too big?

HI Bob

Typical systoms of a venturie that is  too large are:
Breaks too hard and  too much
Charges out of maneuvers and corners
You have to set the needle  richer than you need to
Accelerates going uphill

There are more but  the ones I mentioned sometimes are  typical.

what engine is it and  what size is the venturie

Regards
Randy

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: When is it too big
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2006, 11:59:55 AM »
Once asked Lew Woolard what happens if you lower the compression too far and his answer was something like "It just quits" might check to see how many head shims are in the engine...

I'm trying to get some sort of handle on the compression - venturi relationship. I understand you can use a larger venturi if you lower the compression but that statement by itself doesn't tell me much.  My experience so far has been pretty limited to the following.

Reducing the venturi on a ceramic sleeve Fox 35 (actually a .30) cured a run-away problem.

Reducing the compression on a ceramic sleeve ST 46 to try and solve a run-away problem made it "just quit". Upping the nitro fixed the quitting problem but the run-away came back. Maybe the venturi is too big??? Still not comfortable with this motor and would like to be..

Mean time I am breaking in a stock ringed ST 46 with stock sprinkler venturi to replace the ceramic engine so I will have a base reference.

So deal or no deal.. oops wrong subject.. Too big or not too big? Too low compression or too high compression? Thems the questions????

Offline Bob Reeves

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Re: When is it too big
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2006, 12:05:08 PM »
Randy, we must have been typing at the same time... One thing I messed up on in the previous post was the Fox wasn't really running away, it was breaking too hard as you said and your sugestion of replacing the Fox needle with a ST really made a sweet runner out of it...

Bob

Added: Forgot to answer your question.. It's the ceramic ST 46, stock sprinkler venturi that has been drilled out.. Don't remember the exact numbers but it's 4 drill sizes above stock with a Brueline green air filter.

Offline Stan Tyler

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Re: When is it too big
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2006, 12:56:40 PM »
Hi Curt,

Hi Stan:

If all else is normal, I would say not likely--but I would look at other stuff to be sure.  Plug or loose backplate--could do that.

Need more info tho.  Engine, plug, fuel,  did it ever work right?

Curt


It's a sq. head Magnum .36, I believe either an OS A3 plug or a Thunderbolt (hobbypeople) std long. Stock number of head shims, none added.

Fuel is my standard mix, Powermaster 10% (18% lube) with 8 oz Klotz Castor added.
Top Flight 11/4 prop, launch RPM was 9800.

I did run it on another profile with good success and no problems. Original venturi was .261 with a PA needle and spraybar.  Venturi was opened up to (I think, but I'll check) .278. MACS 1 piece muffler but no muffler pressure.

I remember that get an annoying burp on a hard outside corner like the inverted turn in the wingover or 2nd corner on the outside square. Didn't quit then.

Thanks!
Stan Tyler
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Offline captcurt

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Re: When is it too big
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2006, 01:11:30 PM »
Hi Stan:

I'm pretty sure Randy knows that engine well as he sets them up.  I havent done the math but adding 8 oz of castor to a gallon of 18% might be too much oil..  Not sure on the venturi..is that a spraybar through the center type or a sprinkler??  Hopefully its a sprybar version cause .278 would be huge for a sprinkler.

Have you changed out the plug to try it?

RANDY???

Curt

Edit:

I did the compute--you're at about 23% oil.  I guess I wouldn't think that is excessive but dont think that ABC Magnum will need quite that much.  20% should be fine I think.

I'de try a plug, be sure the backplate is tight (and nothing else losse or out of sorts) and then a little less oil.

The formula for ADDING oil to a know mix without removing an equal amount prior is:

X=  Vol (new%-Old%)  /  1-New%

X is amount to add (oz)
Vol is original volume of mix (128 oz for a gallon)
New% is desired oil content (Decimal)
Old% is the original oil percentage (decimal   ie 20% is .20)

New total volume will be original plus the X amount--be sure there is enough room in the jug!!

FWIW

Curt
« Last Edit: May 19, 2006, 01:46:32 PM by CurtN »

Offline Stan Tyler

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Re: When is it too big
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2006, 02:57:38 PM »
Curt,

Actually, I use my own spreadsheet for fuel mix calculations. The numbers work out to 22.82% lube  (about 49.49% syn. 51.51% castor) the nitro percentage drops from 10% to 9.41% and methonal is 67.76%. The lube content may be a little high, but it's been a good all around mix for my ABC, ABN, or AAC motors.

I don't believe backplate screws or head screws are loose or leaking, but , I haven't checked them.  Yes, the spraybar goes through the venturi, it's not a sprinkler type.

I can try changing the plug and reducing lube content, but it has to wait until I have something to test it on. The profile it was mounted in is a little bent because of structural failure caused by exceeding the decelaration design limitations. An unfortunate result of a flame out!


Stan Tyler
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Offline captcurt

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Re: When is it too big
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2006, 03:22:28 PM »
22.8%---thats exactly what I got.

Perhaps Randy has some ideas.

Curt

Offline Jim Thomerson

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Re: When is it too big
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2006, 08:30:31 PM »
I cured a K&B 4011 of wind up by inserting an aluminum tubing sleeve in the venturi.


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