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Author Topic: What am I missing?  (Read 1107 times)

Offline Alan Hayes

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What am I missing?
« on: August 10, 2008, 07:12:26 PM »
I have a Brodak 40 that was broken in on the bench per Brodak's instructions and ran great. They state break in w/o muffler.  I now have it mounted on a Sig Force, powermaster 10/22, zinger 11x4, plastic tank set up on uniflow, stock muffler. (Have not flown yet do to following problem)

 No problem starting, runs rich and then runs away, cannot meter with needle. May take three turns to richen back up and then quits.  As the needle is richened....counterclockwise....it seems to lean and then richen and quit.

 Reset needle, will hot start with no problem but as soon as you pinch the line or point nose up it runs away.

 Tank height about 1/8 above venturi and  I have lowered.  I have changed to a metal uniflow,  a metal standard vent, replaced nva with a kustom kraftsmanship nva, changed plugs from fox std, k&b 1L, os #3 and 8, fireball hot.

Tank has 1/4 foam backing and I have not noticed any foaming in lines. Changed to a Big Art Tongue muffler, fuel line has been replaced, prop is balanced.

The fuel runs great in a reworked OS 40 FP that I am flying in an original TF Tutor , running uniflow tank...... It runs a 4-2-4 break and never misses through the complete tank.......

All of these changes and same result. 

What am I missing with the Brodak set up?  Help!

Alan
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Offline Ralph Wenzel (d)

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2008, 07:33:25 PM »
1) check and re-tighten all screws
2) Put it back on the test stand, and see if it acts the same way; i.e., pinched fuel line leads to runaway
2a) Curse
3) See if the Head Gasket(s) is/are in place
3a) Curse
4) It may just plain need more breakin, even though you have followed all the instructions perfectly
5) Send it back to John; some engines are "bad from birth"
5a) Curse

Ralph
(Too many irons; not enough fire)

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Offline Alan Hayes

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2008, 08:06:58 PM »
I checked the bolts, will put back on stand as soon as it is returned...loaned to friend......have not checked shims.

Thanks!

Alan
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Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2008, 08:19:17 PM »
Alan,

Not clear about the model in use----Sig Primary Force ARF?

If yes, we have had a lot of trouble with engine runs on these; seems the nose is a bit soft and leads to the run-a-way you describe.  There could be a problem with the engine, but we have had very good results with several of the B40's and B25's.

You might try a different pitch prop, just to get the revs in a different range, and change the vibration frequency.

On my B40 powered Oriental, I use Powermaster 10/22, Zinger Pro 11x5 and have very dependable runs.

Cheers,
Jim
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Offline Alan Hayes

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2008, 08:35:11 PM »
Sorry Jim........yes it is a Sig Primary Force ARF.  I will give the Pro Zinger a try next.  I did notice some vibration but did not think it would cause that much of a problem.  I have built and flown off and on for the past 40 years and this is my first ARF and it has me scratching my head.

Thanks   H^^

Alan
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Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2008, 06:57:02 AM »
Alan,

As a retred, I have "built" several of the profile arf's and have noticed that some are more solid than others.

I had one Cardinal that was fine with an ST 51 and with the second Cardinal I finally had to remove the ST and use an OS LA 46----that after replacing the "exotic Asian hardwood" engine beams with maple and adding two long pieces of 3/16" carbon fiber tube to the front end.

We (Central Alabama Stunt Squadron) have had several of the Primary Force models and have had engine run problems with about half of them.  Great flying planes when they are right, though.

I have promised myself "No more more profiles"!! Not worth the hassle........

Cheers,
Jim
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Offline tom hampshire

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2008, 07:08:24 AM »
Couldn't agree more about profiles generally - The few hours you save by not building a simple box fuse is generally lost by 3 to 1 or better in fighting with the profile nose to get a motor run.  So clean the filters, both on your fuel jug and plane, pull the needle apart and get the smallest bits of stuff out, and run it on the ground.  If you get runaway, have helper hold the plane while you reach in and hold the tank firmly.  If the problem is  fuel foaming, it will be obvious at once.  Or try a separate tank hand held, off the airplane.  Tom H.

Offline Jim Oliver

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2008, 01:01:25 PM »
Tom and Alan,

In some cases we could change the engine run/rpm by grabbing the nose of the profile and just holding it tightly with one hand---doesn't fly very well like that though. ::)

Jim
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Offline Bill Hummel

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2008, 01:50:08 PM »
Alan, one more thought:  the early Brodak 40's had mufflers that were a little too restrictive.  We've added additional exhaust holes at the rear of the muffler for better runs. 
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Offline Dennis Moritz

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2008, 02:15:20 PM »
Yep, I had a soft nose PF ARF. Took a lot to get the plane to work. Wound up using steel engine pads and an aluminum plate on the opposite side of the fues. The plate was drilled in the corners to match up with the motor screws. Lock nuts with washers were cinched as tight as possible. The plate provides a surface that does not disappear into the balsa when the bolts are tightened. Motor run is predictable as long as the bolts are re-tightened after a few flights. The 4/40 bolts eventually strip out the nuts which then have to be replaced.

Most of the profiles I've built from scratch have been o.k. Usually I overbuild the nose using 1/8" five ply, extended engine mounts, etc. Puts on weight.

Offline Chris Gilbert IRL-1638

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Re: What am I missing?
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2008, 01:09:07 PM »
I trust that you've checked the usual suspect - dirt in the tank/fuel line/needle valve?

I had a sort of similar problem recently, that was brought about by the venturi being too large/needle valve being too narrow/air leakage around needle valve. Fitting a wider diameter needle valve appears to have sorted that particular problem out, at least now the motor needles positively.
IRL-1638


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