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Author Topic: UNIFLOW PLUMBING ....With or Without Pressure ?  (Read 2382 times)

Offline Robin_Holden

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UNIFLOW PLUMBING ....With or Without Pressure ?
« on: August 15, 2008, 05:06:50 AM »
Greetings all .... Advice please [ again ! ].

I'm a devotee of Uniflow Tanks , but I'm bemused as some guys I notice use pressure , yet a good source of advice tells me : do not use pressure !

Who is right ? Maybe both work O.K ?

Robin [ ex-pat Brit in the Charente in France full of ex-pat Brits ! ]

Offline Ralph Wenzel (d)

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Re: UNIFLOW PLUMBING ....With or Without Pressure ?
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2008, 05:32:05 AM »
As usual, "It depends". If you're trying to get extra power from a perhaps t00-small engine, and have opened up the venturi a bit, pressure should help with any fuel flow problems. Otherwise, it's optional. IF you decide to try it, run the pressure line to the overflow, and not to the Uniflow tube. Then cap the Uniflow.

If you have room for it, the Tettra tank can solve a multitude of problems, also.

Ralph
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Online John Miller

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Re: UNIFLOW PLUMBING ....With or Without Pressure ?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2008, 05:04:45 PM »
Robin, It seems that running pressure, with a uniflow tank, or not, is an often confusing issue. You'll recieve almost as many different suggestions as there are people whom you have asked.

Ralphs suggestion falls into the category of being helpful, and making suggestions based on what works for him. I do not intend to be in any way demeaning, but setting a tank up as he suggests totally removes the tank from the category of "Uniflow". The tank will become nothing more than a standard vented tank with pressure supplied to it.

This means that the problem uniflow tanks are designed to limit, the subtle speed up in rpm as the pressure head goes down as the fuel is used, is no longer working for you.

In practise, some do not like to use pressure at all. That's a valid choice when they are willing to accept the results.

I personally always run pressure with the pressure going to the uniflow. As Ralph and others have said, pressure can smooth out the fuel delivery, esp. if your venturii is larger than the engine can effectivly draw. Another reason, and the main one for which I use pressure, is the problem of the rpm regulation when the wind comes up a bit.

Without the system being closed as it is when running pressure, the engine goes slightly rich into the wind, and leans a bit going down wind. Precisly where we would want it to do the opposite, if we had to have an rpm change in level flight. Using pressure to the uniflow closes the system, and the uniflow run scarcely changes rpm accept where we want it to in a 4-2-4 breaking run. The uniflow does it's job making the fuel head appear to be constant, until the end of the flight when the uniflow uncovers. On many setups, that point in the flight is readily recognizable, and gives us a good indication that we are almost out of fuel.

Best of luck with whatever decision you make, and enjoy the Sport/ hobby. H^^
Getting a line on life. AMA 1601

Offline don Burke

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Re: UNIFLOW PLUMBING ....With or Without Pressure ?
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2008, 06:22:29 PM »
Maybe I've missed something over the years, but to me if you run a closed tank with pressure, the "uni-flow" effect is no longer there, since uniflow depends on the differential in pressure from atmosphere to the vacuum in the tank caused by sucking fuel into the engine.  So where you introduce the pressure to the tank has no effect on anything. 

I believe the use of muffler pressure is a great way to have a steady pressure on the fuel supply, the only thing better is the "Tetra" bladder type system where there's no possibility of any exhaust gas effect on the fuel quality.  The bladder tanks do take a little more care in filling so that no air is introduced into the bladder with the fuel.  Also a properly filled bladder tank will never have any fuel slosh problem caused by maneuvers.
don Burke AMA 843
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Offline Brian Hampton

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Re: UNIFLOW PLUMBING ....With or Without Pressure ?
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2008, 10:21:32 AM »
With a pressurised Uniflow the differential relates to the muffler pressure instead of ambient so it still works just the same. The problem with a bladder type tank is that I see no way to make it a Uniflow.

Offline don Burke

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Re: UNIFLOW PLUMBING ....With or Without Pressure ?
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2008, 11:37:45 AM »
Uniflow hard tanks and bladder tanks get the same desired result. Even pressure on the fuel supply remaining in the tank.  Atmospheric and as I now know finally realize, pressure uniflow hard tanks have the void in the tank caused by fuel being used.  A bladder tank has no airspace in the fuel, therefore no need for uniflow.  The muffler or crankcase pressure, by design, provides even pressure on the fuel remaining in the tank.   The ballon bladder tanks used by a lot of 1/2A airplanes work the same, with the good old Earth atmosphere providing the pressure, the differential being atmosphere to suction from the engine.  Careful fueling of any bladder tank is a requirement as any air in the fuel within the bladder negates the even pressure.
don Burke AMA 843
Menifee, CA

Offline Mark Scarborough

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Re: UNIFLOW PLUMBING ....With or Without Pressure ?
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2008, 08:25:22 AM »
Ty and all,
lol I just have to be the stick in the mud,,,
I went from standard uniflow to muffler pressure augmented uniflow, and solved most of my little issues,, uh, assuming I actually remember to put the cap back on the vent tube before I take off..!
For years the rat race had me going around in circles, Now I do it for fun!
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Offline phil c

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Re: UNIFLOW PLUMBING ....With or Without Pressure ?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2008, 11:06:04 AM »
It all depends, and not just on venturi size.  Some setups will run fine with straight uniflow.  For mostly unknown reasons similar setups on another plane will run better with muffler pressure to the uniflow vent.  If  you are having engine run problems and can't trace them to something specific, either with or without pressure, try switching and see what happens.
phil Cartier

Online John Miller

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Re: UNIFLOW PLUMBING ....With or Without Pressure ?
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2008, 11:09:03 AM »
I may just be the exception to the rule, but every plane I've built and competed with for the last 20 years has used muffler pressure to the uniflow. The few times I tried otherwise, I had issues when coming into the wind.  H^^
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Offline Dick Fowler

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Offline RandySmith

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Re: UNIFLOW PLUMBING ....With or Without Pressure ?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2008, 01:18:14 PM »
Greetings all .... Advice please [ again ! ].

I'm a devotee of Uniflow Tanks , but I'm bemused as some guys I notice use pressure , yet a good source of advice tells me : do not use pressure !

Who is right ? Maybe both work O.K ?

Robin [ ex-pat Brit in the Charente in France full of ex-pat Brits ! ]

HI Robin

You use what works ,and I have seen people use both muffler pressure and open uniflow that worked fine.
 However, I have help setup planes all over the country for many many years, and I can tell you that I have seen many more problems caused by using pressure than ever were solved. pressure will delay the break if you are using a 4-2 type of run, this can cause a problem unless you open the venturie up qiute a bit.
It also cause a tremendous amount of bubbles in most fuel tanks, and it makes any tiny leak much worse.
Wind is really no problem at all, I use a 90 degree plastic "turn down" on the vent line that you can either point down straight up or out to the side, this stops the oncoming air from changing the head pressure in the tank,
 You can also just bend one out of 1/8 aluminum tubing that works just as well.
Best advice is try both and see what works for you

Regards
Randy

Offline Bootlegger

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Re: UNIFLOW PLUMBING ....With or Without Pressure ?
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2008, 01:29:04 PM »
   y1  Don't know if I missed it or not, but maybe putting the uniflow behind the engine out of the wind completely, and no muffler pressure might give a steady run for you also... n~
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Offline Bill Little

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Re: UNIFLOW PLUMBING ....With or Without Pressure ?
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2008, 12:09:55 PM »
I want to add one thing, and maybe Randy can help with this!

On my Vulcan with Aero Tiger 36, I put pressure on it to start with.  Engine ran perfect and tank setting was dead on!

I go to Huntersville for its first contest and left the pressure line completely off for some reason (I don't usually use pressure) and the engine was off.  I also had to shim the tank 1/16th"!  Only real change was the pressure line.........

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