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Author Topic: Tuned pipe- Or is it?  (Read 875 times)

Offline Chris Wilson

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Tuned pipe- Or is it?
« on: May 16, 2012, 10:15:02 PM »
  I see time and time again when the subject of tuned pipes for stunt use rears up - the mention of divergent cones convergent cones, stingers and all the things one would expect to find on a full size power pipe.

  Now this puzzles me somewhat as all I have ever seen when looking at a full length 'stunt' is a header, followed by a megaphone section with its divergent cone, a parallel walled section for volume and some kind of flat disk reflector that effectively terminates the tuned area. And no real convergent cone anywhere.

  Many pipes look like they have a convergent cone but they really are just a length packed with sound reflecting disks with the tune no more effective than that of a of a gun silencer, dissipate everything and converge nothing.

  To me a 'stunt' pipe purely extracts the spent exhaust gases better than an open face system courtesy of the negative pressure wave caused by gas expansion and as a consequence increases fuel consumption. And there is no real focused positive wave packing the waste charge back into the combustion chamber.

  So, having said all of that (and most likely some of it is in error) does a 'stunt' pipe simply go on and off tune purely by the use or non-use of its negative waves?

Thanks.
MAAA AUS 73427

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 Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.  It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Tuned pipe- Or is it?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2012, 10:21:04 PM »
  I see time and time again when the subject of tuned pipes for stunt use rears up - the mention of divergent cones convergent cones, stingers and all the things one would expect to find on a full size power pipe.

  Now this puzzles me somewhat as all I have ever seen when looking at a full length 'stunt' is a header, followed by a megaphone section with its divergent cone, a parallel walled section for volume and some kind of flat disk reflector that effectively terminates the tuned area. And no real convergent cone anywhere.

  Many pipes look like they have a convergent cone but they really are just a length packed with sound reflecting disks with the tune no more effective than that of a of a gun silencer, dissipate everything and converge nothing.

  To me a 'stunt' pipe purely extracts the spent exhaust gases better than an open face system courtesy of the negative pressure wave caused by gas expansion and as a consequence increases fuel consumption. And there is no real focused positive wave packing the waste charge back into the combustion chamber.

  So, having said all of that (and most likely some of it is in error) does a 'stunt' pipe simply go on and off tune purely by the use or non-use of its negative waves?

Thanks.

Hi Chris

You thinking on this is not correct, you can get the RPMs up on a stunt pipe if you want, There is a reflective wave that will and does charge the cylinder.
Also both my HiTorque and Ultra Quiet CF Stunt pipes have a convergence cone at the rear. It maybe smaller than the some you can find but they are there.
You can still tune off of the rear, or any of the baffles, but the best place to tune is the first reflective surface.
I also make CF pipes for the RC pattern crowd, they are quiet pipes and have a baffle, they will tune and increase the RPM of the 60 RC engines they run.

Regards
Randy

Offline Chris Wilson

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Re: Tuned pipe- Or is it?
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2012, 10:27:25 PM »
Thanks for the quick reply Randy, so your pipes do have a positive wave charging effect?

The Brian Ether pipes do follow the formula I outlined though, at least that is my understanding of it the last time I spoke to him.
MAAA AUS 73427

You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
 Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result.  It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Tuned pipe- Or is it?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2012, 11:04:06 PM »
Thanks for the quick reply Randy, so your pipes do have a positive wave charging effect?

The Brian Ether pipes do follow the formula I outlined though, at least that is my understanding of it the last time I spoke to him.

Looking at Brian's pipes they have a flat back, mine all have a cone back, both the CF and ALum. back versions

Randy

Offline Brett Buck

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Re: Tuned pipe- Or is it?
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2012, 10:14:32 AM »
Thanks for the quick reply Randy, so your pipes do have a positive wave charging effect?

The Brian Ether pipes do follow the formula I outlined though, at least that is my understanding of it the last time I spoke to him.

   You definitely do not need a convergent tail cone to get the same effect. A cluster of closely-space baffles returns echos at varying times just like a convergent cone returns echos over a range of times. The fact that it is N discrete echos, close together, instead of a spread-out single echo, makes little difference in the answer. What having the baffles so closely spaced does (compared to widely spaced) is ensure that there is essentially only one tuning peak that you can hit. The widely-spaced baffles are far enough apart to make it possible to tune the system to any of them, jump from one peak to another, etc. Frank Williams has dyno results that show the different peaks very clearly. You can use that to good effect, or, you can screw yourself up, a lot easier than with a single tail cone or with a closely-spaced cluster of baffles, so it's not a matter of one way being "better" than the other. You just need to know what is going on to figure out the results.

    Brett

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Tuned pipe- Or is it?
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2012, 06:01:22 PM »
You can actually tune off of a baffled pipe that has the entire tail cone removed. I have done this with a pipe that had no tail piece at all
As always you would do best if you follow the instructions from the person that made the pipe, and make sure you locate what, and which reflective surface you are using

Randy


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