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Author Topic: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?  (Read 2357 times)

Offline Randy Powell

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Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« on: September 09, 2007, 09:17:19 PM »
Well, that's pretty much the question. I haven't run this engine in quite awhile and can't remember what pipe length I was using. Any suggestions?
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Offline Wayne J. Buran

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2007, 05:10:13 AM »
Randy, right now my Ro-Jett 65 is happy at 18 inches. I use a Gator 13x4 and new Powermaster blend recomended by RO. Its in a UHP Impact.
Wayne
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2007, 10:31:47 AM »
Thanks, Wayne.
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Offline Bradley Walker

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2007, 10:38:20 AM »
Thanks, Wayne.

Use 145 degrees on Randy's chart. 

To be safe, time the engine and set the pipe to the exhaust duration of your engine using Randy's chart. 

When in doubt, go a little long!!!  Long pipes are much better than short pipes!!!  Short pipes suck!!!

No pipes are even better... 
...oops...
...did I say that out loud? ;D
"The reasonable man adapts himself to his environment. The unreasonable man adapts his environment to himself, therefore all progress is made by unreasonable men."
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Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2007, 02:12:39 PM »
Brad,

I finally found my notes on the plane I ran this engine on with a pipe. Seems I started out with a 17.5" pipe length and ended up with 18.25". I'll probably start there.
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Offline RandySmith

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2007, 03:43:24 PM »
   EX-TIMING   AERO 40\51\61\65   AERO 75 & 85   OPS/OS/ST   OPS/OS/YS   OS/YS   
RPM   130degree   135degree   133 degrees   140degree   145degree   150degree   155degree
9000   18 1/2      18.5-18.75     18.3-18.7     19 5/8     20.25 +   20 7/8     21  1/2
9500   17 3/4      17 3/4 -18     17.4-17.9     19     19.625 +     20 3/8   21   
10000   17  5/16     17.5-17.75     17.25-17.5     18 3/8     19-+   19 3/4     20 1/2
10500   16 3/4      17-17.25     16.9- 17.2     17 7/8     18.3125-+     19       19 7/8
11000   16  5/16      17-16.75     16.7 17   17  5/16     17.875-+     18  5/8      19 1/4
11500   16         16  5/16          16 3/4         17.375-+        17 3/4         18 3/4
12000   15 3/4      16 1/8        16 3/8   16.75-+     17 1/2      18 1/8
12500   15 3/8      15 3/4        16  1/16    16.375-+      17        17 5/8
13000   14 7/8      15 3/8        15  9/16    16-+    16 1/2     17 1/8
13500                     
             PIPE     TUNING        CHART by   Randy Smith      


I hope this will  stay in the correct  rows

I would use the  higher timed ex numbers for that engine

Randy

Offline Randy Powell

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2007, 01:25:10 AM »
Thanks, Randy
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steven yampolsky

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2007, 08:12:00 PM »
Well, that's pretty much the question. I haven't run this engine in quite awhile and can't remember what pipe length I was using. Any suggestions?

17.5 is what Richard suggested I start with on my 51. Since majority of RoJetts(40-65) have same timing, I'd start there with the 65 as well. It runs in very comfortable constant 4.

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2007, 09:06:15 PM »
17.5 is what Richard suggested I start with on my 51. Since majority of RoJetts(40-65) have same timing, I'd start there with the 65 as well. It runs in very comfortable constant 4.


Hi Steven

I am curious ,What makes you think that the  Jetts all have the same timing?

Regards

Randy

steven yampolsky

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2007, 09:23:35 PM »
I am curious ,What makes you think that the  Jetts all have the same timing?

I didn't say all Jetts, just sub 65 ones. Not sure how I know that. I'll check archived email exchanges with Richard Oliver tomorrow at the office and report back.

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2007, 09:44:02 PM »

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2007, 10:15:08 PM »
Quick search on SSWF brought this:

http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=232053&mesg_id=232053&listing_type=search#232061

from Ricahrd
Lets put this to bed.  Timming is 144/128. It was intended to be 136/126. When we made the first engine it turned out to be 140/130.
After flying this for a while I asked Dub to make one that was 4° lower to 136/126. When he programed the new liner he went the wrong way (remember we are making one at a time at this point) and made it 144. Not sure how he got the 130 down to 128 but there it was. Out to the flying field I went and it ran so well I never looked back or even checked it. Jett was told to run with the program in the production run and off I went to my first Nats. When some, certainly not all, can not make a motor run the first call I get is that the motor is bad or defective or in some cases we have been told we do not know what we are doing.

RO




 Hi Steven

From your  quoted  thread.  So  there maybe could be multiple  timings  on the RO Jett  65 that  Randy asked  about.

Randy  no matter  what the timing. I would suggest  just getting  a  360 degree  plastic  protractor  and  see  what the timimg  on your  engine  is
Simple  easy  and  that way you wll be sure.


Regards
Randy


steven yampolsky

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2007, 10:48:34 PM »
From your  quoted  thread.  So  there maybe could be multiple  timings  on the RO Jett  65 that  Randy asked  about.

I believe in the quote you to refer to, Rich was talking about the first 61 engine. 65 came later and used CNC program already setup for the 61 sleeves. He also wrote about having just the first 61 motor with odd timing.

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2007, 11:05:33 PM »
I believe in the quote you to refer to, Rich was talking about the first 61 engine. 65 came later and used CNC program already setup for the 61 sleeves. He also wrote about having just the first 61 motor with odd timing.

Hi Steven

No ,Richard was talking about the 65 not the 61, Randy asked for lenght on the pipe for the 65, from all I have read and heard  from people who actually checked the timing on the engines,

I would  stick with what I suggested  for  Randy to do.

Also Richard  stated that they  started to use  the higher timing in the new engines about 2  or 3 years  ago
Check the timing on the engine  he  has,
 You stated that he should use the  same  timing  as  your  Jett 51, on his  65, because  most of the Jetts are  timed  the  same.
Looks like their is a  good possiblity  that there maybe a big differance in timing  between  your  51  and  his  65.
That was my only point, check it then you will  know. Other  people have and were surprised.

Richard and other are running longer pipes, (some out to 19 or 20 inches) and this makes  perfect sense if the timing  is  higher than 135 degrees. It's just a matter of doing the math, higher timed run longer  pipes, lower timed runs shorter pipes.

Randy

steven yampolsky

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2007, 08:36:46 AM »
That was my only point, check it then you will  know. Other  people have and were surprised.

Is there a HOWTO on how to get engine timing measured? You peaked my interest and I'd like to try checking timing on my motors.

I understand that there are also different PA75's configurations out there. I own two and am very curious as to which setup they are.

Steve

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2007, 09:20:26 AM »
There are  no  PA 75s out there  with differant timing.

Randy

steven yampolsky

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2007, 11:10:25 AM »
There are  no  PA 75s out there  with differant timing.

I just wrote that there are two different configurations, not necessarily timing configurations. Something to do with booster ports...


P.S. Randy, I hope you don't think I am trying to boo your products. I'm a happy owner of several PA's. As a matter of fact, next year I will have three new ships; all powered by your stuff(PA75, PA40Lite and AT36).

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2007, 03:47:37 PM »
I got curious about the timing differences between a 51 and a 65 RoJetts. Since I don't know how to check the timing with a wheel, I just unbolted the header from the 51, bolted it onto 65 and stuck it back in my current ship. At 17.5", it 4-cycled very nicely at 9800 with only a hint of 2-cycle. Same type of run as with the 51! I know is NOT scientific but it does indicate that 65 and 51 have similar type of timing and run characteristics! Cool.

Steve

P.S. I used to run 5.2 laps with 51 and was getting plenty of tension in all but extremely windy conditions(20+ mph). My hand never got tired tired from the pull. After dropping 65 in(still 5.2 laps), the tension increased SIGNIFICANTLY to the point where my hand gets very tired right around vertical 8's! I can't wait to finish my PA75 powered Eurostyle! I may be able to fly 5.5 laps in the wind yet!

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2007, 06:21:11 PM »
""I got curious about the timing differences between a 51 and a 65 RoJetts. Since I don't know how to check the timing with a wheel, I just unbolted the header from the 51, bolted it onto 65 and stuck it back in my current ship. At 17.5", it 4-cycled very nicely at 9800 with only a hint of 2-cycle. Same type of run as with the 51! I know is NOT scientific but it does indicate that 65 and 51 have similar type of timing and run characteristics! Cool.""


HI Steven

That doesn't really indicate anything about the timing. I can make most any stunt engine run in a 4 cycle 2 cycle at most any pipe lenght. And I have ran several engines from 14 inches to 21 inches all in a nice 4 cycle. What is missing was the governing-holdback in the wind, also some would hit harder or softer at differant lenght.
You really have to time the motors to find out the info you want.
Timing engines is not difficult, You can buy a Inexpensive round plastic 360 degree compass many places, Just drill a hole in the middle of it, Install it on your motor like you would a prop, and you are set to check the timing. It is easiest most times if you remove the head. A good technique to use is to make a pointer from a small piece of piano wire with a loop in it. use a head bolt to hold it in place to the top of the case and use another head bolt in front of it to make sure it doesn't move. You can then read where the pointer is in relationship to the compass, and for exhaust turn the motor over the entire range that the ex. ports are open for. read the compass and do the math for how many degrees it stays open.
The intakes are done the same way, just turn the engine over and read where you start and where you stop on the compass.
Many people will try to set the compass a  zero degrees to make it easy to read, this is fine but not necessary, you can read where the ports open and then read where they close and figure from there.

Regards
Randy

steven yampolsky

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Re: Suggested pipe length for a RO-Jett 65?
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2007, 08:11:32 PM »
You really have to time the motors to find out the info you want.
Timing engines is not difficult, You can buy a Inexpensive round plastic 360 degree compass many places, Just drill a hole in the middle of it, Install it on your motor like you would a prop, and you are set to check the timing. It is easiest most times if you remove the head. A good technique to use is to make a pointer from a small piece of piano wire with a loop in it. use a head bolt to hold it in place to the top of the case and use another head bolt in front of it to make sure it doesn't move. You can then read where the pointer is in relationship to the compass, and for exhaust turn the motor over the entire range that the ex. ports are open for. read the compass and do the math for how many degrees it stays open.
The intakes are done the same way, just turn the engine over and read where you start and where you stop on the compass.
Many people will try to set the compass a  zero degrees to make it easy to read, this is fine but not necessary, you can read where the ports open and then read where they close and figure from there.

This doesn't sound difficult at all! Thanks Randy!


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