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Author Topic: Starters on old engines  (Read 980 times)

Offline Russell Shaffer

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Starters on old engines
« on: August 18, 2006, 09:38:08 PM »
I have been told that old bushed engines should not be started with electric starters.  Supposed to be hard on the bearing.  Is this true, or a myth, or does it apply to only certain engines?  The older engines are probably the ones that could benefit most from the use of a starter, but I hate to destroy anything.  Thanks.
Russell Shaffer
Klamath Falls, Oregon
Just North of the California border

Offline Ralph Wenzel (d)

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Re: Starters on old engines
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2006, 10:21:06 PM »
I think it's unlikely to be hard on the bearing, but it might well grind down the nose of the crankcase or score the backplate with the crankpin. Sullivan has a spinner cone set up to engage only the prop - no spinner contact required, and therefore little axial force against the crankshaft; this might alleviate the problems mentioned earlier.
(Too many irons; not enough fire)

Ralph Wenzel
AMA 495785 League City, TX

Offline RandySmith

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Re: Starters on old engines
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2006, 08:33:34 AM »
I have been told that old bushed engines should not be started with electric starters.  Supposed to be hard on the bearing.  Is this true, or a myth, or does it apply to only certain engines?  The older engines are probably the ones that could benefit most from the use of a starter, but I hate to destroy anything.  Thanks.

Hi Russell

Many engines have been destroyed by using an electric starter, What happens is you force the crank pin and rod up against the backplate of the motor and it can  tear loose small pieces of metal, This debris can,and normally does run through the engine and destroy it very rapidly

Randy

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Starters on old engines
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2006, 03:45:19 PM »
Most people don't know how to use an electric starter on an engine.  I seen them set there and just keep turning the engine.  For me a bump start is the easiest on the engine with a starter.  But, nothing beats the old flip prop by hand method.  DOC Holliday
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Shawnee, KANSAS  66203
AMA 23530  Have fun as I have and I am still breaking a record.

Offline Chris Gilbert IRL-1638

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Re: Starters on old engines
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2006, 07:04:34 AM »
Starters and old engines? I just wouldn't.

I have a very old Merco 29 (no idea what colour the head was anymore) that I acquired secondhand some years ago. In a previous life it's owner had ground the front of the crankcase down quite a bit by using an electric starter.
I've no idea why as I get first flick starts with it almost every time, and when it's not first flick, I forgot to fuel it if it takes more than 10.

All my older engines are much much easier to start by hand than any of my new engines.
IRL-1638

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Starters on old engines
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2006, 01:47:16 PM »
When I used to go up to Herb Wahl's place in the 80's to buy stuff like Brown Jr  and other repro motors they were always started before we left.
 A new precisely fitted motor could be a little balky starting and Herb would always use a starter as a last resort to get that initial start.
They have their place and I use them when I need them. However I've started most every model motor up to a Siedel  7 cylinder radial by hand .
 Like all of the rest of the long time modellers it does become somewhat second nature to hand start a motor.

Alan Hahn

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Re: Starters on old engines
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2006, 04:42:13 PM »
I don't think the bearing would suffer since the force you put on the crankshaft is mainly tangential (in the direction of rotation) and straight back.

Most modern engines have a steel washer which prevent the aluminum prop washer from grinding against the front nose of the aluminum crankcase. It also can prevent the crankpin from touching the backplate like others have been warning about in this thread. So if you can verify that you have the steel washer and that the crankpin isn't scraping the backplate, an electric starter probably won't hurt too much. An unbalanced prop is much worse (IMHO) on the plain bearing than an electric starter would be.

Offline dennis lipsett

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Re: Starters on old engines
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2006, 08:12:18 PM »
Alan,The biggest problem on using a starter on a plain bearing motor that has the steel thrust washer in it is that the steel washer also wears out.
If you do use a starter regularly do check that washer often and replace when needed.
Dennis

Online Manuel Cortes

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Re: Starters on old engines
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2006, 02:35:56 AM »
Hello all,
Speaking of electric starters, one of the facts that wear out old and new engines is not to prime them properly before starting The starting procedure should be the same as hand starting, with the previous prime - feels wet- glow connected- check the kick of the prop- and ONLY then start. Lots of people who use electric starters pass them, and let the motor to run without fuel=oil for several seconds, shorting its life.
Probably most of us know them (hand starting engines is part of stunt), but in any case, here is.
Regards.


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