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Author Topic: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40  (Read 1838 times)

Offline Allen Eshleman

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Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« on: April 04, 2010, 06:54:59 PM »
Today,  I flew a reworked Nobler, Top Flite kit plane with a B-40.

However, we had all kinds of trouble getting it to run right.  It had run fine in profile plane.  However,  today it wouldn't run right.  I turned the needle valve two turns and it didn't affect the run.  It ran too fast. We tried to start it again and blew a glow plug.  The needle valve is bent some which we tried to straighten.  However, we can't get it to stay in one place.

Any suggestions?    Thanks

Offline Gus Urtubey

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Re: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2010, 11:40:41 PM »
I had the same problem with my B40 last week, mine was bended also, I tried to straigthen up but didnt work , the problems is that air is getting in and gives the erratic run. I ended up installing an OS 40 FP spray bar and needle.
The venturi holes are a bit big for the spray bar but I fit it using an eyelet on each side, you have to cut the smaller lip of the eyelet and get the big lip flat and it fits perfect.
I flew it this morning and it runs pretty good, it started on the first flip, runs pretty good 2-4, you will have to open the needle 5 turns and to start and go from there.
 

Offline Geoff Goodworth

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Re: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2010, 06:29:51 AM »
Allen, get a replacement NVA from Brodak or Randy Smith. They are both 4mm OD so you don't need Gustavo's fix—even though it is very clever.

Randy's NVAs now have a nylon locking piece under the lock nut rather than the split 'collet' and I like that more. They come in several different lengths so he can supply you with the one to fit correctly.

Cheers, Geoff

Offline Allen Eshleman

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Re: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2010, 02:13:59 PM »
Question,  Do I need to get a whole new assembly or just a needle valve itself?

Also,  would a Super Tiger 51 NVA fit?

 I do need to go over the system.  It was getting dark at the field when we were working through this. 

Today, I noticed three nuts - a larger one on the outside where the needle goes in.  How tight or far in does it need to be turned?

Also,  I have noticed in filling the tank that fuel squirts out the venturi before the tank gets full.

Do we need to pinch of the line to the engine while filling?    It is a regular non uni-flow tank. 


Offline Geoff Goodworth

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Re: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2010, 03:23:27 AM »
Allen, in my experience, the answer to your first question is, it depends. There are different threads around on the needles at least. I know that I have replacement ST NVAs—not factory units—with different threads to that in my Brodak 40.

The Super Tigre NVA may work—the 4.0 mm spraybar diameter is correct. I've only used the shorter ones and only on Thunder Tiger/Magnum GP conversions.

Check the distance from the fixed shoulder on the spray bar to the hole. If it's close, use it. If it is a little bit off, see if you can centre the hole in the venturi with a flat washer.

Cheers, Geoff

Offline Allen Eshleman

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Re: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2010, 04:40:25 AM »
Thanks Geoff,

      I made a close inspection in the sun on a patio table. Great viewing.  We were working feverishly at the field as the sun was setting. I am sure that the NVA needs changed.  I will probably try the ST assembly.  However, a whole new assembly at Brodak is only $9.95 or so.  Thanks again.

I have another question.

Currently by mounting the motor with the head down,  the flow into the engine goes in on the inside wing side.  Would it be of value to mount it so that the fuel flow goes in from the outside. 

Another question.

When I fill this tank - it's a standard vented tank - the fuel runs out of the venturi before it runs out the bottom vent.  What does that mean?  It sure wastes fuel.     I have been pinching of the tube to the engine to prevent that.    Has anyone else ever had that experience or similar ones?

Thanks for all the advice and help.

Offline Allen Eshleman

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Re: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2010, 06:09:30 AM »
Has anyone tried the ST 51 NVA.  If so, how did it work?

Offline john e. holliday

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Re: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2010, 09:50:38 AM »
You have something pluging the overflow or the needle is open too far.   H^^
John E. "DOC" Holliday
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Offline Balsa Butcher

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Re: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2010, 10:31:02 AM »
I have found that some Brodak needle valves come with a "burr" that may prevent them from closing the fuel off completely. Close the needle valve and blow through it using a clean piece of fuel tubing. If you can blow air through the needle isn't closing completely. Try threading it on again until it does close off the fuel (air). As far as which side the fuel goes in, the most common is the fuel feeds into the engine from the outside side.  8)
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Offline Allen Eshleman

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Re: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2010, 07:07:39 PM »
Today,  I installed the ST-51 needle valve.  It fit fine.  However, it has a much bigger hole.  What effect would that have?

I also found dirt in the fuel filter which I cleaned out.

I turned the valve around and the fuel is coming in to the engine from the outboard side.  The needle is very short. I had to use needle nose pliers to adjust it while running. 

I got one run - too fast leaned out and another one a bit too rich.  Neither time did it run the tank dry. It ran at the most - two minutes. 

 It is a normal vented tank.  I also had trouble keeping it running with the glow plug off. It would stop. That was with a Fox Long.  Then I changed to a shorter plug and it stayed running. 

I'm still frustrated.  I'm using Powermaster 10/22  half and half.  It's almost gone.  I have some Fox 10/20 (all castor) and some Sig Champion 15/20 half and half.   I'm thinking of trying them.

Any suggestions.  This motor ran fine on the Powermaster and the Sig when it was side mounted in a profile Cosmic Wind.







Offline Allen Eshleman

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Re: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2010, 08:10:56 PM »
I have a question:   What is the effect of having a bigger hole in the spray bar than than the original?

In terms of running?

In terms of fuel economy?

Offline Geoff Goodworth

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Re: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2010, 02:11:39 AM »
'What is the effect of having a bigger hole in the spray bar than than the original?'

So long as you can actually stop the fuel flow by screwing the needle all the way onto the seat, very little. The usual internal layout is that the taper on the needle seats on a step or shoulder inside the spraybar. As you open the needle, the fuel flows around the taper and along to the hole. A bigger hole may mean slightly less fuel atomisation but I would be surprised if the difference, if there is one, is noticeable.

As for your previous question about the location of the hole, just out of sight and facing back towards the cylinder is the way I always do it. Facing forward should not make a difference. Just out of sight as you look down the venturi will give maximum suction.

Cheers, Geoff

Offline Allen Eshleman

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Re: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2010, 03:25:25 PM »
Thanks Geoff,

      I am wondering what are good Glow Plugs to use with the B-40.   I don't know what I was using when I blew one.  I have some Fox Std Longs, one O.S. #8 and two Tower R.C. 2 cycles that are shorter than the Longs - look to be the same size as the O.S. #8. 

      I have not tried to start it again. I am also thinking of trying some Sig 15% nitro fuel. 

Thanks for all the advice.




Offline kenneth cook

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Re: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2010, 06:43:38 PM »
       Allen, I had similar proplems using the Fox plugs. I just had to replace them more often. Once I noticed the rpm's falling off when the plug was disconnected I'd get rid of it. In terms of fuel I'm using Powermaster 5%-22% oil. I use Sig r/c long plugs now and haven't replaced the plug in over 2 years now of consecutive flying. My engine runs terrific. I use a APC 10-5 prop. I would just make sure you use a good quality hot plug. I truly don't see the need for you to up your nitro if it isn't necessary. Ken

Offline Allen Eshleman

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Re: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2010, 05:20:44 AM »
I installed a new Brodak NVA.  I also used some Brodak 5/23 fuel.  It's running again and seems to be doing fine.  I only did one flight because the balancing weight came off.  It now has new weight, hopefully better secured.  It needed quite a lot of weight in the back.  Thanks for the suggestions.

Offline Glen Wearden

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Re: Spray Bar Needle Valve B 40
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2010, 08:28:46 AM »
The best plug I've found, so far(I haven't used Thunderbolts, etc.), for overally use, is the OS #6 (old A3).  It is a hot plug, and maybe that seems to work best for me, both in CL and "dark side" flying.  A problem I've had with the Fox RC Long is that, especially on a profile, using a "hang on" lighter, the electrode will loosen up and cause a compression leak and weak burn.  Just my opinion.

Glen Wearden
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