News:



  • May 21, 2024, 11:59:14 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Ringed Engine compression differences.  (Read 661 times)

Offline Andrew Tinsley

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1345
Ringed Engine compression differences.
« on: January 09, 2011, 06:37:54 AM »
Hello All,
  I am in the process of renovating an old Brown Junior, that is in very poor shape. The compression is passable rotating in the normal direction, but is superb when rotating in the reverse direction. I remember reading that this is not unusual with ringed engines. It got me to thinking WHY? The piston doesn't know which way the crank is turning so why the difference in compression?
  The only thing I can think off is that the piston is rocking around the wrist pin, because of wear on the rings. It is inclined one way for forward rotation and the other way for reverse rotation. Even if this is correct, I still can't figure out why the compression is different.
  The only other thing to state is that the big end of the con rod is very worn (Note to self, do I have another one or must I make one!). Anyone got an explanation for this difference in compression?

Regards,

Andrew.
BMFA Number 64862

Offline Jim Kraft

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3412
  • AMA78415
Re: Ringed Engine compression differences.
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2011, 08:44:45 AM »
RInged engines almost always have more compression one way than the other, and on a new engine, where the rings are still turning, (unless pinned), it may change back and forth. It is generally better to have the best compression when turning the engine backwards, as that is the load on the piston when it is running. It does depend where the ring gap is. On a new or slightly used engine, it will sometimes change each time you run it, as the ring is still turning. I have a friend who use to pin the rings on his YS 120 engines he flew in R/C pattern for just this reason. He could tell the difference in power when the ring turned to the "wrong" side.
Jim Kraft

Offline Andrew Tinsley

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1345
Re: Ringed Engine compression differences.
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2011, 12:36:51 PM »
Thanks Jim
  Ah, so it depends where the gap is! Didn't think of that one. Mind you I still don't see why there is a difference. Have you any explanation for it? I really can't work out the physical reason for the difference in compression. Any mechanical engineers out there?

Regards,

Andrew.
BMFA Number 64862

Online Lauri Malila

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1635
Re: Ringed Engine compression differences.
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2011, 12:50:03 PM »



 Hi.

 In the end it's just a pump. Depending on which way you turn, it may be either atmospheric pressure or vacuum i the bottom part of crankcase. You see, intake timing is not symmetrical. Try without backplate, it should be same both ways.
 This is just a guess, I should have an engine in my hand to be sure.. L

Offline tom hampshire

  • AMA Member
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 391
Re: Ringed Engine compression differences.
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2011, 01:28:29 PM »
     The difference in compression depending on direction of rotation is due to the ring gap, per Jim Kraft.  The change is due to the side thrust of the rod driving the piston against the cylinder wall.  If the gap is on that side, the ring is seated deeper in the groove, making the ring groove mask more of the ring gap.  If the ring gap is on the other side, more of the gap is exposed when the side thrust pushes the piston to the other side of the cylinder.  IMO, anyhow.  One of these days we'll figure out how to send a diver into one of these things while it's running, and end all the speculation.

Offline Andrew Tinsley

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • ******
  • Posts: 1345
Re: Ringed Engine compression differences.
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2011, 02:22:36 PM »
Hi Tom,
  Don't know if you are right with your surmise, but it is a very understandable explanation. Occam's Razor Principle rekons that it is probably correct!

Regards,

Andrew.
BMFA Number 64862

Offline Jim Kraft

  • 2015
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 3412
  • AMA78415
Re: Ringed Engine compression differences.
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2011, 02:35:43 PM »
LOL Tom; But I think you are exactly right. It is the side load on the piston that makes the difference. There is always some clearance in a ringed engines piston to cyl., and the rod is pushing it one way or the other. And the fact that compression starts when the rod is at a high angle. In other words, my O is the same as your O. LOL.  Maybe we can get Tim and Al from Tool Time to go into the engine. They did that on a V8 on one of their shows. Only they would have to be made a whole lot smaller.
Jim Kraft


Advertise Here
Tags:
 


Advertise Here