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Author Topic: OS FSR 40 reverse the crankcase?  (Read 1552 times)

Offline Roger_Pion

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OS FSR 40 reverse the crankcase?
« on: December 27, 2018, 12:16:51 PM »
I'm interested in reversing the center section of the crankcase on my FSR to put the exhaust port on the other side.  I want to install it inverted and prefer the port (and muffler/pipe) toward the outside of the circle.  I understand that the piston and rod must maintain the correct orientation with respect to the crankshaft.

I imagine it'd work ok - after all the old K&B Greenheads had the exhaust port on that side and they run ok.  But not having run it yet, I don't know what to expect.  Has anyone else done this already on their FSR, and if so did it work ok?

Offline Dave Hull

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Re: OS FSR 40 reverse the crankcase?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2018, 01:00:39 PM »
Roger,

Sorry I don't have dimensional info on this engine. However, you might also consider that you will be keeping the crank rotation direction the same. This means that instead of swirling the fuel mixture toward the bypass, it will be spinning it away. So it may run somewhat differently. This engine probably has a notched disk crank web for counterbalancing. That might also make a difference in the bottom end gas flow. But people put reverse cranks into a lot of different engines (without rotating the case) and it seems to work just fine.

The rod will have to mount on the crank the same way, but if the piston has any asymmetry to it, it will have to be rotated with the liner. (If it has been previously run, it will also have to be rotated with the liner.)  Unless the piston has a cutout for it to clear the backplate. If both of these are true, then you will have to modify the piston.

Which FSR (size and vintage) are we talking about?

Will be interesting to hear your results.

Dave


Early .40 FSR engine review:   http://www.sceptreflight.net/Model%20Engine%20Tests/OS%2040%20FSR.html
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 01:30:47 PM by Dave Hull »

Offline Brian Hampton

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Re: OS FSR 40 reverse the crankcase?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2018, 02:35:21 PM »
I just checked my early (ringed) version and the big end of the conrod has a chamfer on both ends of the bush so it doesn't matter which way around the rod fits on the crankpin so it's just a simple matter of swapping over the front housing and backplate. Not that it really matters but the backplate has slightly different contours top and bottom compared to the sides.

Oh yeah, on the link above to the test of the 40FSR it's best to use the .com site instead of the .net ( http://sceptreflight.com/Model%20Engine%20Tests/Index.html ) because the old .net site can't be updated with new tests.

Offline Roger_Pion

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Re: OS FSR 40 reverse the crankcase?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2018, 02:59:35 PM »
Thanks fellows.  That review is indeed my engine, single pinned ring etc.  My conrod is chamfered on one side so I had to take the piston off and rotate it 180 degrees and put it back on the rod.  I tried it without doing that first, but the ring gap ended up in the exhaust port.  Once I restored the original piston-cylinder orientation, all went back together well.  Huge compression and it doesn't even appear to be broken in yet.

 

Online Brett Buck

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Re: OS FSR 40 reverse the crankcase?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2018, 03:52:16 PM »
Thanks fellows.  That review is indeed my engine, single pinned ring etc.  My conrod is chamfered on one side so I had to take the piston off and rotate it 180 degrees and put it back on the rod.  I tried it without doing that first, but the ring gap ended up in the exhaust port.  Once I restored the original piston-cylinder orientation, all went back together well.  Huge compression and it doesn't even appear to be broken in yet.

 

  Roger- is there a notch in the bottom of the piston? Several people have assembled the pretty similar 40/46VF with the piston in backwards, which had dire effects on the performance. The notch goes on the bypass side of the case, opposite the exhaust.

     Brett

Offline Roger_Pion

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Re: OS FSR 40 reverse the crankcase?
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2018, 04:21:23 PM »
  Roger- is there a notch in the bottom of the piston? Several people have assembled the pretty similar 40/46VF with the piston in backwards, which had dire effects on the performance. The notch goes on the bypass side of the case, opposite the exhaust.

     Brett

There's two large notches opposite one another.  It's the same on both sides up inside the piston too.  I couldn't even find the arrow that points to the exhaust port, that some folks saw on their piston crowns.  So I'm pretty sure on this engine it doesn't matter as long as I keep the ring gap in its original alignment inside the cylinder.  There's excellent compression that way and the engine turns very smoothly, ring doesn't hang up anywhere.     

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: OS FSR 40 reverse the crankcase?
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2018, 07:44:53 PM »
Yea , you reverse the cylinder ( block ) & piston & liner. So the ROD stays the same on the crank .



Theres the OS 40 & 45 in ringed & ABC . Plus Magnum , Royal , ASP & Thunder Tiger Clones & a 46 . The ROYAL Crank is closest to the OS 40 - S stunt crank , in Timing, or better . But doesnt have the fancy machining on the crank web the OS does .

The OS 40 FSR - S to give it its fancy title , ran a differant crank ( timing ) but same P/L set up . Ringed .

Bob Hunts 40 FSRs ran Nelson Chrome Liners with some fancy Ring . Accoring to MAN Nelson column . Didnt say if retimed but Id think 130 - 110 .  :P
This being wot tames a HP 40 , which is a similar injun ( Must check if the liners fit .
To digress further , the next series OS , the SF , theres a C/L STUNT Version . I imagine it also has a specific crank .

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: OS FSR 40 reverse the crankcase?
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2018, 08:08:46 PM »
The Thick Plottens , . . .

Its IMPORTANT on the FSR's to run the TANK 1/8 inch LOW , or itll runaway on outsides . ALWAYS 1/8 inch .



Heres my rowdy pirate copy of Bob Hunts C.S.C. 40 FSR Toungue Muffler . It was actually dicidedly QUITER when it fell off on one flight .  LL~ %^@

Im thinking the 2 in x 30 dia tube muffler with the 10 x 2 mm holes will be the go , let & breathe and MUFFLE the thing .
The Stock 45 Magnum muffler , it ran lean inverted / outsides WITH the tank at the 1/8 in .
Brodak tank , all youll get IS 1/8 in the Strega . Next flight the toungue above evened the run decidedly .  :-\ 8) if a trifle loudlyer .

ALWAys THE SWINE SPEED UP THROUGH THE FLIGHT . For decades & centuries and years . So a drilled a 3/8 hole , slotted to 1/2 ,
in the Top of the NOSE of the STREGA . ( these are said to allow better cooldown between flights , as hot air goes UP .
Casell & Baron both prattled about cooling vents ( Through Bearers ) saying engine would drop speed after a few laps from take off
as it dropped to OPERATING TEMPERATURE .

Most of Urtnowskis plans show the breather , as per Gieske , Giadini etc .

FINALLY , last weekend



Copy of THIS muffler , but 2 mm Not 2.5 holes , was a wet rag , with the gutless run , but Even though the Flight with the Breather .
Next Flight the C.S.C. back on and audable , but the cowwl off as my battery was flat & the bludged one wouldnt fit the plug hole in the cowl , :P

Power Back & a even steady run . on a 12 x 4 3 blade Bolly on the FSR 45 Bitza .

The 40s seem to like the FIVE INCH pitch , tho . Hunt s ran a 11 x 5 three blade . Std Crank ? ( Not S )

Tempted to block / remove rear iof std muffler & drill 10 3/32 holes in a x pattern , and whittle a few fins .

BE WARY of the WEENEY MUFFLER SCREWS . most common complant on S/H FSRs , stripped freds .
Ive now one gen u wine from new FSR S , a Magnum 45 , & a TT & Magnum 40 , from bits .

As I mayve said , the Tank 1/8 down & the C'Case Breather are MANDATORY , or itll lean off , & not drop back . the 45s'l near 4-2-4 .

The Gardner 40 FP P/L will drop in the 40s, tho I havnt in minee yet .

Wanted OS Front Housings ( for the center spray bar bore ) & 40/45s , dead or alive . Must be nuts .  :(

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: OS FSR 40 reverse the crankcase?
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2018, 08:50:41 PM »






Now Where Were we .  VD~

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: OS FSR 40 reverse the crankcase?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2018, 06:25:26 PM »
"The Gardner 40 FP P/L will drop in the 40s, tho I havnt in minee yet ." (Matt)

My recollection is that in PW's "Impact" article, he told of using an FP/FSR hybrid built for him by Tom Lay, until the .40VF/pipe came along. Have you used any RE donks with a tuned pipe? If not, why not?  H^^ Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: OS FSR 40 reverse the crankcase?
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2018, 07:05:40 PM »
Thats who's to blame . The Impact Artical . Figured it was worth a try .

Quote
Have you used any RE donks with a tuned pipe? If not, why not?  H^^ Steve

goes abit against the ' add simplicity and lightness / ifit isnt there it doesnt weigh anything maxim .  :(

No , but the Bonneville had what I call an ' Augementer ' exhaust . Where It'd come ' on the pipe ( or Mega ) at 94 in 3rd 
( Keep it below 90 in third  )( all the nerds say mucho tripe regarding 1 3/4 pipes , bends & other things regarding Exhausts .)
Essentially , switching rich , with the incandescent perforated tube baffles , created ' somewhat of a vacume '  to enhance the scavenge
and get the int. / ex. pulses ' in phase . This was acustically discernable . in the next valley on a still night .

A feature of the valve seat was prototype for top line Nascar Configuration subsequently , The Chap emigrateing after finishing the work .
It made the shift into top at 105 / 110 a matter for concentration , but'd then run thru to 130 + or valve float at 135 , in top .
Coulda runa nuther tooth ( 25 instead of 24 ) on the engine sprocket .Being a pre unit .
 Boutas fastas Malcolm Uphills despite no fairing .

As for 2 stroke whizz bangs & helicopters - I find the noise just that , not music to the ears , if harsh , at 8000 on a 40 inch twin .

 8)

I believe the Governor Effect from the tuned pipe appears worthwhile , But believe Ive emulated it with the HP 40 RPR,
To a degree I think also technical configuration of the airscrew can produce comparable results .  VD~

Not personally in favour of the weight , added complexity or expense , of the tuned pipe set up .
Like electric jobs , it has its merits , but is not the only path permisable .

The rattletrap multi hole muffler on the RPR mayve been what gave it the wind / load response.
However , the cowl on / off was 1/4 turn on the needle ! . The ' Forced Air Induction ' or whatever youd call it ,
could equally or in combination , have provoked the power characteristics .
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 08:21:55 PM by Matt Spencer »

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: OS FSR 40 reverse the crankcase?
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2018, 07:41:43 PM »
P bleedy S , the FSR FOUTY FIVE & the HP have the same liner O.D. AND Head Bolt P.C.D. , and closely comparable port hights .

Thus you get .42 Cu. In. with HP Sleeve , in the 45 FSR case .

or FOURTY FOUR cubes , Seven with FSR 45 P/L in HP case . ( 1/32 " overbore - 0.8 mm )

Rods are same big & little end diameters , might need radius on piston cutout edges to clear crank / backplate / disk .

ALSO tho the OS 45 FSR ABC piston is LONG and alows ' dropping the liner ' the magnum is definately not so .  >:(

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With the 40 OS your stuck with the FP as a non ring swap out , unless someone comes up with something else .

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Ive found the overspeed / inabilty to stay on lap time insufferable with the OS FSR & clones . The cowl top vent seems t 've finally licked it .

Cant be bothered with the complexity ( structurally ) of a tuned pipe , or the expense . More'n one ways to skin a cat . As they say .  H^^

All my FSR blocks are reversed - Ex Out . Couldnt find a picture & gotta ' diss load ' a few pictures to get anymore on the phone camera .
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 08:26:10 PM by Matt Spencer »

Offline Steve Helmick

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Re: OS FSR 40 reverse the crankcase?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2018, 12:00:52 AM »
The fussy part of the FSR/FP swap is because the ports are rotated on the FP and not on the FSR. The wristpin has to be retained by clips, so slots need to be cut inside the wristpin holes on each end...from memory.   D>K Steve
"The United States has become a place where professional athletes and entertainers are mistaken for people of importance." - Robert Heinlein

In 1944 18-20 year old's stormed beaches, and parachuted behind enemy lines to almost certain death.  In 2015 18-20 year old's need safe zones so people don't hurt their feelings.

Offline Air Ministry .

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Re: OS FSR 40 reverse the crankcase?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2018, 08:47:05 PM »
The fussy part of the FSR/FP swap is because the ports are rotated on the FP and not on the FSR. The wristpin has to be retained by clips, so slots need to be cut inside the wristpin holes on each end...from memory.   D>K Steve



Std FP LEFT , Gardner ABC RIGHT . There DUAL small by pass ports there , if you glare .

This is why the Gardner FP 40 P/L looks like a go , if you have FSR's on the brain . Circlipped , Full Skirt , AND fancy ( Smith / P A ) Porting .

Wil let you know HOW IT GOES , but it wont be soon ( unless Im donated anther OS FSR 40 ( hint hint ) . AS MY 40 is a ( or was a n.i.b. )
FSR-S with the ' Stunt ' crank , and Im loath to de originalise it . Tho I may be tempted . :-\ To prattle further , The Strega at 5 ton ( or 76 Oz)
may be o.k. for the 45 FSR but not likely a good test to normal FSR 40 use .

Further Again , the Gardner HP 40 abc P/L & head , would drop in the FSR 45 case . but youd have something like a 42 ,
loosing 0.8 mm on the Bore . In case anyones in that boat .


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