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Author Topic: norvel engine problem  (Read 1298 times)

Offline bobsrc

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norvel engine problem
« on: December 03, 2011, 09:26:49 PM »
Hi Guys,
I've flying models for over 50 years - cl, ff, RC including a ten year stint in pylon racing and many years in cl combat so I'm not a novice when it comes to engines.  I came across a couple of norvel engines that have me absolutely stumped.  I have both big mig and ame 40's and 25's that absolutely refuse to run rich.  I've been trying to run these in speed limit combat on both suction and bladder pressure.  They start ok, I let them warm up before trying to needle them, bring them up to peak then back off slightly, but when I try to walk out to the handle they will go rich and quit.  If they don't quit before launch they will quit rich in the first 1/2 lap. If I needle them slightly over peak, if they don't quit on launch they will run out a tank but you can tell they are suffering.  Can't seem to find that sweet spot.  These all have cl venturi's, and have been run with a variety of glow plugs and Sig 15% fuel with 20% oil, either all castor or the 50-50 blend oil, and open exhaust.  When this started I thought they were going lean but richening up the mixture made it worse.  I hate to turn them into fishing weights as they are light, powerful and well made.  I cut my combat teeth with K&B green heads and Quickers back in the 50's and have never had engines that acted like this.  Any ideas?

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: norvel engine problem
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2011, 04:37:26 PM »
          For starters, you didn't state if your using the stock needle valve. If in the event you are, go for the OS 1a needle and have it remotely located on the plane. As your probably aware of this a lighter pitch prop equates to higher rpm's and easier needling. You can adapt a piece of tubing into the stock venturi to hook your fuel feed line onto. I generally use a wd-40 straw bent into a 90 deg elbow.  I don't have a Norvel .25 or a .40 but have used every other engine they make and I enjoy them. A 8x4 apc would be a very good choice prop for the .25. Any air leaks are going to cause inconsistent runs. I can't see the need for 15% fuel. It isn't going to harm anything but 5-10%  nitro would be sufficient for speed limit. In the event your using the incorrect temp range of plug, I can see a problem there. A hotter plug using the lower nitro fuels would be in order. I can say this, I've been flying speed limit for the past year and what worked for me in stunt hasn't been the case in combat. The Thunderbolt r/c long was my choice in stunt and it doesn't stand up well in combat as the filament is very weak and fragile. I believe the best plug I found to use in my Norvel AME .15 was the Mccoy brand. The OS medium heat range I believe #4 would also be a good choice.  Your symptoms sound as if the plug is cooling off. Ken
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 03:13:00 AM by kenneth cook »

Offline bobsrc

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Re: norvel engine problem
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2011, 08:47:27 PM »
Thanks for the reply and suggestions Ken.  I have a Norvel .15 that runs great.  I've tried all sorts of props on both engines and they don't seem happy with any of them.  One thing I have not tried is a fuel with all synthetic oil as a couple of these engines are plain bearing.  I have glow plugs of all heat ranges and have tried all, not much improvment noted.  Engines all have good compression hot and cold.  It's too cold to mess with them outside now but I'll resume experimenting in the spring.
Bob

Offline don Burke

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Re: norvel engine problem
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2011, 10:43:29 PM »
Those are the same symptoms I had with running car engines designed for hi nitro fuel on 10% racing fuel.  Needle way too sensitive.  It's a compression ratio problem. The hi-nitro takes, I think (I'd check with the speed guys), lower compression ratio.  Takes experimentation with head shims.
don Burke AMA 843
Menifee, CA

Offline kenneth cook

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Re: norvel engine problem
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2011, 03:20:25 PM »
        Bob, our club uses Powermaster GMA blend 11/22. I generally use 10% nitro and this fuel seems to work wonders for all of our speed limit planes. I never used an all castor based fuel in the Norvel engines. Ken


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